Low recoil rifle


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prevost
November 2, 2010, 12:57 PM
Hey everyone, I'm new to the THR. I recently hurt my shoulder pretty severely. Im looking to purchase a new rifle but am definitely concerned about excessive recoil. Im interested mainly in military surplus arms. Does anyone have a recommendation?

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jkingrph
November 2, 2010, 01:03 PM
CZ 527 in 22 hornet, Not a mil surp but fun to shoot. Unless you go with a 5.56 AR, recoil will probably be an issue with most milsurps.

dirtymike1
November 2, 2010, 01:08 PM
http://www.thecmp.org/22targetsurplus.htm

Milsurp .22lr

Most milsurp, at least what I thikn of like Enfields, Mosin Nagants, Mausers etc., rearrange my shoulder when I shoot them, and I haven't injured mine. An AR is a good choice, as is a AK-74. I would honestly go with a .22lr or somelike close to it. Shoot more, hurt less

dogsoldier0513
November 2, 2010, 01:09 PM
If you intend to hunt big game, the various Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55 are VERY mild in the recoil department...and EXTREMELY accurate.

NELSONs02
November 2, 2010, 01:58 PM
If you intend to hunt big game, the various Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55 are VERY mild in the recoil department...and EXTREMELY accurate.

The Swede would be a fine choice, especially if you're only interested in surplus rifles.

However, most other old military rifles have metal butt plates and are chambered in hard-hitting rounds like the 8mm & .303. Now I'm not sure how bad your shoulder is but you might want to try something more modern in a smaller caliber before decideing on what to buy.

WardenWolf
November 2, 2010, 02:08 PM
Try an SKS. Practically no recoil there. They're lightweight and accurate. A new batch of good Yugos recently came in, and are available from various retailers. If you can find a Romanian in good condition, they're also an excellent choice. Good-condition Romanians are a bit hard to find, though.

I picked up a Century Golani about 10 days ago. It's not milsurp, but it's an accurate civilian clone of the Israeli Galil rifle, and a very good quality build. It's a heavy 5.56 rifle with a good muzzle brake. It's probably one of the gentlest rifles I've fired. No sharpness whatsoever. The included magazine is bad, but brand new Tapco replacements are cheap.

Dr T
November 2, 2010, 02:12 PM
For deer-size game, consider a 250 Savage. Less recoil than a 243.

Also, I use a PAST shoulder pad to protect my shoulder joint.

prevost
November 2, 2010, 06:29 PM
I've also seen lee enfields online converted to shoot .45 acp rounds. Does anyone have any experience with these?

bugeyed_99
November 2, 2010, 06:37 PM
If your concerned about recoil with a larger rifle, I bought a NOKICK hydrolic/spring recoil system and installed it on my .338 win mag, I shoot 200gr winchester ballistic silvertips out of it and can shoot it all day long, the first day i installed it I shot 80 rounds out of it with no soreness during or after, NO kick at all. I would compare it to a standard issue M4

benEzra
November 2, 2010, 07:39 PM
I'd suggest a 5.45x39mm AK, or a .223 AR. If you like milsurps, you could build a retro "early M16"-looking AR with a slickside upper, fixed carry handle, pronged flash suppressor, and triangular handguards.

http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/index.html

http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/sitebuilder/images/601a-653x168.jpg

I have to disagree with the characterization of a 7.62x39mm SKS or AK as having near-zero recoil. Recoil is certainly less with 7.62x39mm than .308 or .30-06, but 7.62x39mm is considerably sharper than .223 or 5.45x39.

WardenWolf
November 2, 2010, 07:54 PM
Actually 7.62x39 isn't sharper. I have a Saiga .223 and a standard AK, as well as an SKS. The Saiga actually hurt a bit because of its short, sharp recoil, whereas the 7.62x39 round was more pleasant because it had a longer, more gentle recoil. The Saiga doesn't hurt anymore now that I converted it, though; the new stock has a spring plate on it.

briansmithwins
November 2, 2010, 08:16 PM
If you're looking for military pattern rifles your best bets are either an AR in 5.56 or a AK in 5.45x39. Eitehr rifle is going to be very soft shooting.

5.45x39 has the advantage of being very, very cheap right now. Of course, the cheap ammo is corrosive milsurp.

BSW

viking499
November 2, 2010, 08:18 PM
I also agree on the 6.5x55 if hunting game where you need that size of cartridge.

kbbailey
November 2, 2010, 08:18 PM
ever consider black powder rifles??

BrocLuno
November 2, 2010, 08:23 PM
Depending on how much you shoot (?), if only practice and hunting, say 2 boxes a year, you could get a nice early Arisaka in 6.5. Ammo is out there from Norma and Shaw & son. You'd just need to stock up as you won't find it in stores. Since they were made for smaller framed soldiers, they have short stocks. Get a good LimbSaver slip-on 1" butt pad and you should be good to go. And it won't cost you a ton either :)

If true mil-spec "as built" is not required, I have seen some nice Arisaka 6.5 sporters come up for reasonable $$ and they could be fitted with a recoil tube inside the stock bolt hole and a LimbSaver butt pad for not too much. Then you'd have a tough bolt gun and a softer shooter :)

Baba Louie
November 2, 2010, 08:24 PM
M1 Carbine, hands down as 1st choice

Then the Swede 96

An AR15 while not milsurp per se, with the buffer, should be easy shooting.

If you've got the money, an M1922-M2 would be choice!

benEzra
November 2, 2010, 08:56 PM
Actually 7.62x39 isn't sharper. I have a Saiga .223 and a standard AK, as well as an SKS. The Saiga actually hurt a bit because of its short, sharp recoil, whereas the 7.62x39 round was more pleasant because it had a longer, more gentle recoil. The Saiga doesn't hurt anymore now that I converted it, though; the new stock has a spring plate on it.
In the same gun, though, with the same stock and same barrel length (the only difference being caliber), 7.62x39mm will produce about 70% more recoil than 5.56x45mm. The momentum of a 55gr .223 round at 3000 ft/sec is 3.26 kg-m/s, if I figure it right; the momentum of a 122gr 7.62x39mm at 2350 ft/sec is 5.66 kg-m/s, neglecting the momentum of the gases.

I have a Romanian AK in 7.62x39mm with a metal sidefolder, and it will leave bruises if you don't pocket it just so. Out of a gun with a wider stock (or with a butt pad), it would be much gentler, but a 5.45x39 out of the same gun would still have about half the recoil due to the lighter bullet weight, which results in commensurately less momentum.

One of the nice things about the AR, for someone with a shoulder problem, is that the AR's buttplate is wider than a typical AK's, making the rifle seem even gentler than it is. The direct-impingement system may also result in a somewhat softer recoil pulse, though I've never shot a piston AR so I have no point of reference.

Hatterasguy
November 2, 2010, 09:38 PM
AK74 or AR.

AK74's recoil less than AR's they are very light shooting rifles.

grimjaw
November 2, 2010, 09:40 PM
Retro M16?

One of the heavy Yugo SKSs w/grenade launcher wouldn't be too bad, especially if you put a slip-on recoil pad on it. It has a pretty short length of pull anyway.

Surplus military trainer .22s are sometimes good. I have a BRNO Model 1 that I love.

jm

Shadow 7D
November 2, 2010, 09:58 PM
What about something like the Biakal (sp) semi in x39, seems like a nice sport semi in a relatively mild and effective round.

GunTech
November 2, 2010, 11:52 PM
Recoil is a function of bullet weight, powder charge weight, bullet velocity and weapon weight. You can also reduce recoil by using a muzzle brake (which reduces the recoil cause by the propellant mass).

So, a heavier rifle will have less recoil than a lighter rifle of the same caliber.
With equal weight rifles, one firing a lighter bullet than the other at the same velocity will have less recoil. With equal weight rifles, both firing the same weight bullet, the one with the lower velocity will have less recoil.

I wrote a simple web based form to estimate recoil energy in Joules, which will give you a basic comparative number for two rifles (or other firearms)

http://guntech.com/ke.html

WardenWolf
November 2, 2010, 11:58 PM
I have a Romanian AK in 7.62x39mm with a metal sidefolder

That, my friend, is your problem. Those stocks tend to be rather abusive to your shoulder due to their minimalist design. Switch it out for a regular stock or a better side-folding stock and you'll see the difference. My Romanian underfolder is very gentle. Granted, I did put a brake on it since it came with a threaded barrel.

wrench
November 2, 2010, 11:58 PM
A little more complicated solution, but learn to reload. Then you can shoot any rifle you like, with minimal recoil:D
Second choice, the PAST strap on recoil pad. Makes even milsurp ammo not so bad to shoot.

dougw47
November 3, 2010, 12:08 AM
Prevost,

My AR clone has no recoil, my Winchester 100 has a little...I am shooting left-handed now because of a Mill.$$$ of surgery/reconstruction to my right shoulder. Neither of those make my bad shoulder hurt...but then my 7 x 57 and .270 don't really bother me either.

Have you tried shooting with the other shoulder, it is different but can be learned.
good luck!

millertyme
November 3, 2010, 12:09 AM
you can't reduce a load for a semi-automatic, gas-operated rifle too far and expect it to cycle. Get a 10/22 and have fun on the cheap.

GunTech
November 3, 2010, 12:36 AM
The OP didn't really indicate their purpose for the rifle. That would certainly make things easier.

FlyinBryan
November 3, 2010, 01:14 AM
for a soft shooting mil-surp, especially if you have an injured shoulder, it would have to be an ar, or maybe an m1 carbine.

garands are fairly soft for full power battle rifles, but i wouldnt want to shoot one with an injured/painful shoulder.

id say the best bet is an ar.

JDMorris
November 3, 2010, 07:44 AM
a really nice .22
Save your milsurps for after healing.
or learn to shoot lefty.

benEzra
November 3, 2010, 08:13 AM
That, my friend, is your problem. Those stocks tend to be rather abusive to your shoulder due to their minimalist design. Switch it out for a regular stock or a better side-folding stock and you'll see the difference. My Romanian underfolder is very gentle. Granted, I did put a brake on it since it came with a threaded barrel.
I had a wooden AKM-style stock on it originally, but decided to trade a bit more felt recoil for the utility of the sidefolder. I like the looks of the AK103-type folders but am not sure they'll work with a Kobra. Mine has a bare muzzle (I don't care for brakes on intermediate-caliber rifles) and that undoubtedly makes the recoil a little more noticeable.

My point was, though, that the 7.62x39mm does generate more recoil than 5.45x39mm or 5.56x45mm, and while it is not a particularly hard-kicking gun by any means, the recoil is definitely nonzero. If a couple of guns are identical except for caliber, the 7.62x39mm model will kick more than the 5.45x39mm model or the 5.56x45mm model.

GunTech
November 3, 2010, 08:52 AM
The 5.45x39 in an 8 pound AK is a very mild recoiling rifle, and has the advantage of being cheap with very cheap surplus ammo. But if you just want a plinker, it would be hard to beat a 22 semi like the 10/22. For hunting, a standard weight 243 will serve well for deer sized game with small recoil.

smartshot
November 3, 2010, 08:52 AM
your question begs the answer....."7x57 mauser" light in recoil and you can't get anymore military surplus than that.

prevost
November 3, 2010, 10:10 AM
thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I never considered trying to shoot left. The main issue is I live in canada so things like the AK74 and AR are difficult to acquire. Has anyone tried the norinco type 97?

http://www.canadaammo.com/product.php?productid=25&cat=0&page=1

briansmithwins
November 3, 2010, 10:19 AM
Look hard at the Tavor since you live in Canada and can actually get them, unlike us poor bastards in the States.

BSW

KDS
November 3, 2010, 11:15 AM
I second the M1 Carbine. great little gun without much recoil.

d2wing
November 3, 2010, 11:53 AM
I went to an AR-15 for the same reason. I also have a Saiga but I don't use it as it heavier, less accurate and a little more recoil. But the Saiga maybe a better deer rifle. Also with the AR you can change buffers and springs to lessen recoil more if needed.

BrocLuno
November 3, 2010, 11:57 AM
Yeah, an M1 is real easy on the shoulder :)

prevost
November 3, 2010, 12:03 PM
I'm almost certain an M1 is a restricted firearm in canada :(

Maverick223
November 3, 2010, 08:25 PM
I'm almost certain an M1 is a restricted firearm in canadaI don't live there nor know for certain, but from what I can glean off the net, you can. I too vote for the M1 Carbine as the best choice...after that some variant of 5.56NATO rifle; first and foremost for me would be the Tavor...which IS available in CAN...but not in the US. :(

Caliper_RWVA
November 3, 2010, 08:58 PM
Romanian M69 - .22 trainer. The little flip up sights work about right with subsonic .22's and mine is quite accurate.

Have you put a limbsaver pad on what you have now? I'm a skinny guy so I have one of the slip-ons to make up for lacking any natural "padding".

Shoot standing. Recoil on anything is easier when your body can move to help absorb it.

Shoot non-dominant side?

Tuckerp229
November 3, 2010, 10:21 PM
Low recoil rifle
Hey everyone, I'm new to the THR. I recently hurt my shoulder pretty severely. Im looking to purchase a new rifle but am definitely concerned about excessive recoil. Im interested mainly in military surplus arms. Does anyone have a recommendation?

First let me recommend the Chuck Hawkins recoil comparison charts. I owned a 30-06 for 30 years and was tried of the 3 shot and done routine every year. I wanted to shoot my deer rifle more often without being beaten up. The CH recoil charts helped me choose a less punishing but effective deer hunting caliber.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

I wound up with a 6.5x55 Swede. It is an amazing light recoiling cartridge with a storied past, (actually it is older than the 30-06), and is the number one big game cartridge in Europe being used for even for Moose. The BC is also quite good -upper 4's for many bullet selections so the long range potential is there. Europeans use this caliber for 300 yards competitions even today.
I have used it last year to drop two nice deer each with one shot clean kills.

Next it meets your military requirement.

Finally recoil. Recoil is virtually equal to a 30-30 which to many people a real easy to shoot a lot gun.

Jonny V
November 3, 2010, 10:24 PM
whatever you do, don't go with the 577 Tyrannosaur............




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y7KjanpWOk&feature=related

Jonny V
November 3, 2010, 10:33 PM
cross the 700 nitro express off yer list too......:mad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D41NYBHkb9M&NR=1

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