What is intended use of PGO 14" 12 gauge?


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bushmaster1313
November 2, 2010, 11:19 PM
What is the targeted market for a 14" PGO 12 gauge.

How do you hold this when firing?

What is the range at which you can count on hitting the bad guy?

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/pgo.jpg

Picture from Gunbroker,
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=198094498

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highorder
November 2, 2010, 11:21 PM
I would use it to open doors. Even then I'd add a stock.

bigalexe
November 2, 2010, 11:24 PM
Proper usage:
1.) Unload weapon
2.) Grip on end of barrel
3.) Use PG as a club

Seriously it is a highly specialized gun I would expect to be used for door busting and about nothing else.

Zundfolge
November 2, 2010, 11:27 PM
Target market is likely police departments ... used for opening doors.

bushmaster1313
November 2, 2010, 11:30 PM
Why PGO 14" for door opening?

Virginian
November 2, 2010, 11:30 PM
The primary use is that a lot of people think it looks tough when 109 pound actresses use one to blow bad guys away with blanks in the movies and on TV. In real life it's a bear to TRY to control after the first shot with a hand that feels like it just got hit by a baseball bat. A 4" Smith Model 29 with full house 44 mag rounds is child's play by comparison.

Fred Fuller
November 2, 2010, 11:35 PM
What is intended use of PGO 14" 12 gauge?

Ummm... stirring up ire on the shotgun forum? :D

lpl

bobbo
November 2, 2010, 11:36 PM
What is the targeted market for a 14" PGO 12 gauge.

How do you hold this when firing?

What is the range at which you can count on hitting the bad guy?

A) Mall Ninjas.
B) Sideways with one hand, or mounted to the rail on your AR.
C) Over 9000 yards.

OK, now for a serious answer:
A) Cops, as they don't need the $200 tax stamps for it.
B) Not in front of your face (check YouTube for people getting smacked in the noggin).
C) No clue, but not all that far. It's not a duck or turkey gun...

Zundfolge
November 2, 2010, 11:42 PM
Why PGO 14" for door opening?

Because in general that is what PGO SBSs are designed for.

A longer 14" gun might also have some limited use as a riot gun or for less than lethal ammo use. But mostly it would be for breaking open locked doors.


As for how its held and fired, its like this:

http://breachingtechnologiesinc.com/video/shotgun_web_still.jpg

strambo
November 3, 2010, 12:14 AM
I agree it seems to have no real purpose...since it is NFA...why not go to 12" for door breaching? If for CQB...it needs a stock.

WardenWolf
November 3, 2010, 01:03 AM
I've seen PGO shotguns controlled decently. I'd say they could be handy for home defense, where narrow hallways and doorways would make a traditional shotgun a liability. In these situations, any shot is likely to be at pretty much point-blank range. You're only going to need one shot, and you'd have to be blind to miss.

WardenWolf
November 3, 2010, 02:35 AM
Actually it's not a $200 tax stamp. If it was manufactured without a stock, it is legally an AOW and thus transferrable with only a $5 tax stamp.

chas08
November 3, 2010, 07:04 AM
It's made for killing things at close range. Mostly hands that are wrapped around that poorly designed pistol grip.:D

lobo9er
November 3, 2010, 07:52 AM
just takes some practice

MCgunner
November 3, 2010, 08:05 AM
Use? Why, duck hunting, of course!:D

Personally, I've got NO use for pistol grips on shotguns. Pistol grips are for pistols.

Sam1911
November 3, 2010, 08:26 AM
Threads merged.

Guns and more
November 3, 2010, 12:38 PM
Now that you got all the snarky answers from the "I don't know anything about P/G shotguns, but I'd never have one." crowd, let me give you a serious answer.

Mine is an 18 1/2" barrel, the minimum without a AOW stamp. So, a 14" barrel needs an additional tax and paperwork.

They are best fired by holding firmly in your right hand just under the rib cage, your left hand holding the forestock so the gun rests at a 45 deg angle across your body.
I put a Knoxx grip on mine, that has a spring in the P/G, and I could shoot it all day from this position.

It's virtue is it's small size. Easy to store, easy to maneuver.
It is NOT for skeet, ducks, moose, trap, three gun, and other games.

It is for home defense. Range? 10' - 30'. Buckshot.
Take it to an outdoor range and practice.
Oh, it's fun too.

If you want an AOW shotgun, get the 10" barrel Serbu shorty.

jon86
November 3, 2010, 02:13 PM
It might just be me, but I think this would make a pretty great camping/truck gun. It could fit in a backpack or behind the seat of a pickup and easily deployed. Yes, it is more difficult to shoot with a pistol grip only versus a full stock, but with practice, it can be done.

Even with the pistol grip, in my experience it's still easier to hit things than with a handgun.

Sam1911
November 3, 2010, 02:22 PM
Even with the pistol grip, in my experience it's still easier to hit things than with a handgun.

Wow. That goes very contrary to my experiences where sighted fire with a handgun is much faster, more accurate, and versatile than anything I was able to accomplish with a PGO shotgun.

FIVETWOSEVEN
November 3, 2010, 02:29 PM
What is intended use of PGO 14" 12 gauge?

Ummm... stirring up ire on the shotgun forum?

lpl


I'm gonna have fun with that when I get my Remington 870 "Witness Protection" legalized and built.

Jeff82
November 3, 2010, 02:46 PM
why not go to 12"

Because that's how long the pump action is.

jon86
November 3, 2010, 03:02 PM
Sam, I'll agree that a handgun is faster and more versatile. But only on accuracy, I can hit stuff more easily with a shotgun, pistol grip or full stock. Again, only my experience.

oneounceload
November 3, 2010, 04:13 PM
why not go to 12"
Because that's how long the pump action is.

Why not go shorter??

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

http://www.serbu.com/top/super_shorty_870.jpg

Zundfolge
November 3, 2010, 08:52 PM
It might just be me, but I think this would make a pretty great camping/truck gun. It could fit in a backpack or behind the seat of a pickup and easily deployed.
Maybe if you added a folding stock.

PTK
November 3, 2010, 10:44 PM
The primary use is that a lot of people think it looks tough when 109 pound actresses use one to blow bad guys away with blanks in the movies and on TV. In real life it's a bear to TRY to control after the first shot with a hand that feels like it just got hit by a baseball bat. A 4" Smith Model 29 with full house 44 mag rounds is child's play by comparison.

Video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngfMmMzGsQ). That sorts of proves you wrong, no? :rolleyes:

Guns and more
November 4, 2010, 11:22 AM
Why not go shorter??

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

My first day ever at any range had me sandwiched between a guy shooting a Serbu Super shorty, and a gang-banger looking guy with a 44 magnum.
I thought, "I gotta find a range where normal people shoot."

However, the guy with the Serbu was having a blast. (pun) I'd never seen one, and he was smiling big time.

By the way, I never went back to that "urban" range.

CoRoMo
November 4, 2010, 12:31 PM
Why not go shorter??
Magazine capacity.

FLAvalanche
November 4, 2010, 01:47 PM
It would make an excellent boat gun.

Girodin
November 7, 2010, 02:18 AM
Video link. That sorts of proves you wrong, no?

While the gentleman you were responding to may have somewhat overstated things, that video is one where they are shooting low brass target loads. High brass loads are truly a different experience.

Girodin
November 7, 2010, 02:38 AM
If I were going to get a real small shotgun I would want it to be something like this:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrV-cln3LIVvCvTIWlFX50XeZXtC3YJQjryt8A5M2Kv52soPM&t=1&usg=__rrwxYxb7Vko7UFlh-UUuu2gW9cA=

No loss of magazine capacity. One can still run 5-20 round magazines, with 8-10 rounders being the most practical in my experience.

Can fold the stock for a pretty trim package if desired. Even with the stock out it is relatively small

About 1000X more "usable" (getting on target quickly, follow up shots, accuracy, etc) with the stock deployed than a PGO shotgun.

Also since a lot of the attraction to PGO seems to be fun or cool factor it blows them away in that too.

The one drawback is it is not real cheap.

One thing I've never understood about the Serbu is why everyone is so excited about it being an AOW and requiring only a $5 tax stamp. I understand if do to local laws one could have an AOW but not an SBS but otherwise it is a lot cheaper to build a much more useful SBS including the $200 tax than to buy a Serbu and pay a $5 tax.

To answer the OP, yeah guns like that are door breachers for serious users, range toys for others, and a HD weapon for those who are either misinformed or what to handicap themselves. Their main practical use is as a door breacher, although the FBI HRT apparently has tastes closer to mine. Here is the breacher than Tromix built for them. (I believe it was not yet completed at the time these pics were taken).

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x8/BobAsh_album/HRT3.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x8/BobAsh_album/HRT2.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x8/BobAsh_album/HRT4.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x8/BobAsh_album/HRT1.jpg

ozarkgunner
November 7, 2010, 02:41 AM
Ill put my shortened and PG'd Mossy up against anyones full stocked 28-30" bbl in a home defence situation. Let's see how well you get thru a door and turn down a hallway, and peak around a corner or cabinet. I can peak around a doorway or end of hallway and have full control of my SG and not uave it sticking out and giving me away. Can you do that with a full stock and barrel, or just have it pointing at your feet or up towards your face? Or do you just yell from the end of your hallway and try to rack ot really loudly to scare away the bad guy?

ozarkgunner
November 7, 2010, 02:46 AM
Also, I still don't get why they are called PGO's. They still have the forward grip. Or have I amd everyone else that uses a full sized SG with their non-trigger hand on the "forward grip" been doing it wrong for decades. It's still there.
I had no intention of not using tje fprward grip when I shortened my shotty.

PTK
November 7, 2010, 02:53 AM
While the gentleman you were responding to may have somewhat overstated things, that video is one where they are shooting low brass target loads. High brass loads are truly a different experience.
In that video, we were shooting Hornady 00 buck, if I'm recalling right. :)

Girodin
November 7, 2010, 12:39 PM
Ill put my shortened and PG'd Mossy up against anyones full stocked 28-30" bbl in a home defence situation.

That my friend is what they call a false dichotomy. Put another way, one isn't left to chose between two weapons neither of which is ideal for the task. Who cares which is really better? Anyone serious about defensive shotgunning isn't going to pick either of those weapons. Its like betting that your Geo Metro is faster than a Ford KA or that your mini can tow more than a smart car.

I can peak around a doorway or end of hallway and have full control of my SG and not uave it sticking out and giving me away. Can you do that with a full stock and barrel, or just have it pointing at your feet or up towards your face? Or do you just yell from the end of your hallway and try to rack ot really loudly to scare away the bad guy?

I take it you have no training whatsoever in this type of thing.

Girodin
November 7, 2010, 12:46 PM
In that video, we were shooting Hornady 00 buck, if I'm recalling right.

I tried to pause it and look at the shells coming out that is what made me think they were low brass, that is what they looked like when I first saw it. I tried to watch it a again. I readily admit I'm not exactly looking at a high def video so I'm not surprised if I am in fact wrong.

GMHAYESUSN
November 7, 2010, 01:39 PM
I don't have a 14 inch barrel on either of my pg shotguns (ithica 37 and a moss 500) but I do have a 18.5 on both and I have no issues with either for hd role. As a civlian I have no need for breaching doors with a pistol grip only shotgun and with the navy we usually use a full stock mossberg 500 to breach in my personell weapons I use a number 4 buck which does help reduce the recoil imho and I would not hesistate to grap either of these weapons for a hd situation

texas bulldog
November 7, 2010, 06:19 PM
Also, I still don't get why they are called PGO's. They still have the forward grip. Or have I amd everyone else that uses a full sized SG with their non-trigger hand on the "forward grip" been doing it wrong for decades. It's still there.
I had no intention of not using tje fprward grip when I shortened my shotty.

The term has nothing to do with the forward grip at all, nor how it is held when firing. It differentiates it from a pistol-gripped stock. I think we can agree that there is a difference between these two things:
http://www.gunaccessories.com/ShotgunStocks/FullPistolGripStock.jpg
One is a full stock with a pistol grip. The other is...(wait for it)...a pistol grip only.

Dravur
November 7, 2010, 08:42 PM
Come on...

It is obviously for Zombies

PTK
November 7, 2010, 11:09 PM
I tried to pause it and look at the shells coming out that is what made me think they were low brass, that is what they looked like when I first saw it. I tried to watch it a again. I readily admit I'm not exactly looking at a high def video so I'm not surprised if I am in fact wrong.
I asked a few friends and also the girl shooting. It seems we were indeed using a mix of Winchester and Hornady 00 buck. :)

Leadhead
November 11, 2010, 12:30 PM
I asked a few friends and also the girl shooting. It seems we were indeed using a mix of Winchester and Hornady 00 buck.

She's a trooper!
Pretty sure you'd remember if you had a mix of bird and buck....

foghornl
November 11, 2010, 02:19 PM
I can see 2 uses for the PGO-stocked shotgun..

Extremely tight quarters..i.e. the guy in the back of the "armored car"

Door & Lock breaching.

CleverNickname
November 11, 2010, 11:06 PM
A folding stock is a better option than a PGO shotgun.

http://imgur.com/V6Pxy.jpg

http://imgur.com/zCKOM.jpg

Sir Aardvark
November 13, 2010, 12:41 AM
A 14" PGO shotgun would certainly be easy to wield in a narrow hallway!

I think that if I were to have a PGO shotgun then I would try the Knoxx BreachersGrip - it looks a bit gimmicky, but, I do know that the Knoxx SpecOps stock DOES reduce recoil, and this is based on that design.

Has anyone here ever tried one?

http://www.ondutygear.com/blknbrshpigr.html

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/ondutygear_2128_4695681

PTK
November 14, 2010, 02:49 AM
She's a trooper!
Pretty sure you'd remember if you had a mix of bird and buck....
Winchester Ranger 00 buck and Hornady TAP 00 buck. Not birdshot in that video, though I started all of them off with it. :)

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