Dan Wesson Razerback RZ 10 (10mm)


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gbran
December 18, 2003, 11:34 PM
I'm looking for feedback or links to reviews of this 10mm 1911 from DW. I've heard it has matchgrade parts and accuracy. I also heard it was moving out of limited production and would be more readily available. The DW homepage is pretty skimpy on info.

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Bren
December 18, 2003, 11:49 PM
The RZ's are tight but the only real "match grade" parts are slide /frame and barrel fit.

If you want a low number original (in the 30's) let me know, 3 are consecutive ser numbers. They also make a PM and Patriot 10mm with a CCO and Bobtail Commander coming.

Personally I don't like non ramped unsupported barrels in 10mm and own different brands. DW has had their problems but they try to make it right. Bren

Parker Dean
December 19, 2003, 12:10 AM
Well, the first place to start would be the DW forum over on 1911forum.com (http://www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=52)

Do a Search. The RZ has dominated discussion over there for just about a year. Plenty of info, links, and other what not.

As for Match Grade parts, the word is that parts are Chip McCormick sourced.

I have #42. I believe it is capable of better accuracy than I personally can achieve. Every now and then the stars and planets align and I can shoot an overlapping group. Most of the time I am less than accurate and the groups widen out to a couple of inches.

At first it had a few feeding issues, all FTE's, and a quick n' dirty extractor tension job by me fixed that.

Couple of items noted

The barrel hood rubs the slide. I think it happens on the return to battery as a round is being pushed up. It's developed a gouge about an eighth of an inch back from the front. I done some searching and what little I've found on the subject suggests that it's just from a tight gun and no one seems overly worried about it :shrugs:

The barrel bushing is quite loose. You can turn it easily by hand and it will quite literally fall out of the slide and off the barrel by gravity. Most seem to want at least a bit of resistance but OTOH it is accurate so I understand that this would not be considered a problem.

The firing pin stop on this one (and an informal poll suggests well over 50% of DW 1911's) is also loose. Without the FP the stop will fall right out. This could result in a jam at least. There is a report of one person who had an AD at a competition from the FP being stuck out by a FP stop that had ridden up after a dry-fire. The next round jammed due to the extended FP and the shooter manually inserted the round into the chamber to clear the jam. Needless to say when he dropped the slide, "BOOM" This was well-discussed over on the DW forum and the consensus is that it took a particular set of circumstances to get the AD, but it's still a less than stellar example of fitting. From what I understand it should at least take a minor amount of effort to move the FP stop while others feel that it should take a drift to remove it.

#42 has the Bomar-style rear sight with a standard DW white-dot front sight. I have decided that I hate that combination. The white dot is pretty big in relation to the rear sight and the rear leaf shines when back lit despite being serrated. Unfortunately the DW front sight cut is an oddball 65 degree (IIRC) dovetail cut, while I haven't really researched the rear sight I have not yet seen a similar sight sold elsewhere.

There's not much good to say beyond that it looks fantastic and shoots better! :D

gbran
December 19, 2003, 12:15 AM
I have a serious yen for the right 10mm. I currently carry a G30 in 45 acp. I'd like to get a compact Glock 29 in 10mm and add a larger 10mm for hunting and rangework. I don't care about collectability or low serial #'s. I've looked at the G20, former Colt Delta Elites, S&W 610, etc. I can't afford highend guns, but could probably swing $800-$900 in a few months. I don't know about the Glock accuracy, but the DW RZ10 is supposed to be very accurate. I also don't know how it would compare to the S&W 610.

9x19
December 19, 2003, 12:20 AM
The problem with DW front sights is their depth of cut, the 65 degree shoulder is common, as is the .330 width (front to back), the .090" depth is not, as most sights run .060" or .075".

FWIW

Their are still a number of 10mm Kimbers advertised on the net, and mine has been an excellent performer. Tight and smooth, like most Kimbers, and the Series II pieces are easily removed and forgotten.

Good luck

gbran
December 19, 2003, 12:22 AM
This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. The Glock is starting to sound pretty good. It's hard to make a good 1911 in 10mm for some reason (besides pressure). BTW, the slide wearing problem plagued Para also.

Parker Dean
December 19, 2003, 12:25 AM
^^^^

Don't forget the Smith 1006. I was looking into these here recently and I talked a friend into getting one this last weekend. About as accurate as my RZ from what we can tell (well except for that first DA shot :mad: ).

The trigger drives both of us nuts, even in SA, so I suspect Cylinder and Slide is going to get a 1006 for a trigger job here in a few months unless someone has other suggestions.

I prefer the 1006 sights over my RZ's.

I may have to get one myself.

Oh, now that Bren reminded me, I was looking at the RZ's barrel and I agree that it has more throating done than I'd like to see for playing rough with psycho/nuclear loads. If you wanna play with the ragged edge just be sure to watch the brass for bulging down by the rim.

Bren
December 19, 2003, 12:41 AM
Hello Parker Dean, I've noticed Glocks in 10mm also bulge the brass.

My main concern is when reloading and the brass has been used a few times because it can get brittle.

I own a 1006 and the little creep in the SA trigger can get to me now and then but it sure is accurate, my Witness ported "Target" 10mm did it to until I did a trigger job. That thing is a tack driver also and the best bang for the buck.

I picked up a Like new SS pre II 40 Kimber for $525 that is reemed for 10mm and is my favorite because it needs nothing and of couse has the best trigger made and is also totally reliable. The thing is VERY accurate!

I wouldn't mind having a DW CCO or Bobtailed Commander if the price is right. I'd prefer Black coating, internal extractor and ramped barrel though.

Good talking to you Parker. Bren

9x19, the new Kimbers do feel like they were lapped and somhow slightly different. Bren

Peter M. Eick
December 19, 2003, 11:34 AM
My RZ-10 (#16) had "issues" out of the box. It took one trip to DW to fix everything, but since then it has been a great performer. Absolutely no problems. I have over 2000 rnds down it and it seems fine.

Positives: Reasonably tight, good accuracy, got to pick my serial number and the mags are serial numbered to the gun.

Cons: Expensive for what you got (lot cheaper now though), stainless seems to wear quickly (I decided this will be the LAST stainless I buy). and the trigger seems "so-so".

Overall: I do not regret buying the RZ, but the barrel is pretty heavily ramped so you should not push reloads very hard (which DW admits). If I were you today, and wanted a 10mm gun to shoot hot loads, then I would pass on a 1911 format gun and go for the glock or the witness. Both handle the power availble in a 10mm better. This is based upon my experiences as an owner of a g20, witness, Baer 10mm, RZ-10 and user of a 610.

12-34hom
December 19, 2003, 12:21 PM
I have RZ serial # 004.

Overall i would rate the overall performance as an 8. I bought it to carry while on duty, but had enough problems with it i do not trust it enough to protecting my life or someone elses.

It is now at Actions By T = getting his reliability package for street carry.


12-34hom.

Peter M. Eick
December 19, 2003, 12:47 PM
Hey,

Teddy lives just down the road from me and has worked on my guns.

His work is AMAZING! You will be shocked if you have not experienced it before.

He turned my used 70's python from a very so-so colt into a near prefect replica of my mid-60's python. The difference in DA/SA smoothness was unbeliveable.

My only regret with Teddy is the wait. I will be very interested to hear your comments when he is done.

Grayrider
December 19, 2003, 01:39 PM
After three Dan Wesson 10mms, I would have to suggest you buy something else. My RZ had major problems out of the box. It would partially chamber a round, the round would stick in the chamber, and getting it unloaded required driving the slide back with a rod. Scratches resulted. Dan Wesson took it back, and on return I had a nasty scratch on the trigger guard. It still won't go into battery on reloads, but will on all factory ammo I have tried. The trigger is bad. Period. I need to have my smith go over it and make it right.

My PM 10mm had a minor extraction issue. They appear to not actually tune the extractor, just drop it in as-is. My smith fixed that in about 10 seconds and it ran great. I sold it and the new owner has been quite happy. Probably should have kept that one.

I recently bought one of their experimental Patriots in 10mm. It has the wonderful external extractor that is supposed to be better. Nope. Rounds now hang under the claw and have to be pried loose. The pin holding in the extractor walks out of the top of the slide. It too will be headed back to DW. I will post the results here and at 1911forums so others can see if DW can correct this or not.

Buy a Kimber, buy an old Delta, buy a Smith 10xx. I just don't think DW has the 10mm figured out yet.

GR

Sean Smith
December 19, 2003, 03:45 PM
The Razorback kind of got mixed reviews over on 1911forum.com and elsewhere. Some work superbly, some less so. Kind of like most factory production guns, frankly. I don't think Kimber's recently introduced 10mm has proven to be any different.

Several pistolsmiths will tell you that a ramped barrel isn't necessary for 10mm, since it has a considerably stronger case than .40 S&W and only runs at slightly higher pressures (37,500 psi vs. 35,000 psi). However, if you really want to hot rod the cartridge a ramped barrel can give you more case support & let you get away with playing beyond the SAAMI pressure spec, or at least make your brass last longer and bulge less.

What I'd suggest is that when going from 21,000 psi to 37,500 psi mean peak chamber pressure, and from 370 ft-lbs at the muzzle to 700 ft-lbs at the muzzle, that maybe more thought needs to be put into the gun than just re-boring a 1911 for 10mm and hoping for the best.

12-34hom
December 19, 2003, 04:22 PM
Peter, from all i have gleaned from talking to and reading his comments on other web sites, i chose him to try and work on that pistol.

I really enjoy my RZ, and want it to work = 100%.

Sounds if TJ is a pistolsmith who knows his business.

I don't mind paying for quality work. i let ya know whats up after i get it back.

12-34hom.

Peter M. Eick
December 19, 2003, 04:30 PM
My experience with Teddy have been excellent. I did make one REALLY BIG mistake though. I brought my 2 year old daughter into his shop one time. Very bad to mix small fidgity kids with a gun room!

I will never make that mistake, ie mixing guns and daddy day care together!

Ford
December 20, 2003, 01:22 PM
I have one and have put about 200 - 250 rounds through it. I have not had any problems with it. My only complaint is that the grip safety does not work properly. It hasnt since I bought it. I guess I should send it back to have them fix it but I have not had the time. If you barely touch the grip safety you are able to fire the gun.

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