I dont reccomend you buy a Sig 556


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Averageman
November 3, 2010, 06:47 PM
I purchased a Sig 556 two and a half months ago.
The Weapon wouldnt zero at 25 yds it was 4 inches off and had no more adjustment on the sight left to bring it any further. I sent it back to Sig and called them after three weeks. They had not looked at it yet.
I got a call back a week later and found out the weapon was defective. I asked what was wrong with it and the C/S Supervisor at Sig "Scott" told me the weapon need to be replaced.
Apparently the barrel to reciever allignment was incorrect and this was diagnoised by the Gunsmith on hand and that is why it wouldn't shoot straight.
Well not shooting straight is about one of four problems I had with the rifle and why I sent it back in.
1) It wouldnt shoot straight.
2)The rear sight fell off the first time I fired it and would not stay on the rail unless it was locktited in place.
3) A mystery spring fell out of the buttstock,..I have no idea where it goes.
4) The folding stock would never lock in to the folding position.
Now it has been almost two months they have had the rifle, no replacement, no one can give me an estimate when it will be replaced and back in my hand.
They have sent me a sight, a red dot to go on my new rifle; but not having that rifle it doesn't do me any good. I would happily send it back to them
Today they offered me a Sig 516 to replace the Sig Swat Patrol 556. Thats quite a deal for them, but I dont want it either.

I really have no confidence in Sig Sauer anymore and I cant reccomend anyone purchase one.
Thanks
A/M

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armoredman
November 3, 2010, 07:54 PM
Ouch. That's not good. Refund and go buy something you can trust, AR, vz-58, FAL, something along those lines.

Averageman
November 3, 2010, 08:12 PM
I've since bought a rifle to replace it.
The Money isn't the issue, How is it that things like these aren't caught before they leave the factory floor? Dont they test fire,..seems a good idea with a 2 K + MSRP.
Sig Q/C and Customer Service is poor at best. They should have made it right immeadiatly, returned phone calls when they said they would, or put someone on the line who is capable of making a Customer service decision beyond policy when the problem goes beyond normal.
At some point had someone called a week in to this and said "Go back to where you bought your rifle, we have made arrangements for you to get an immeadiate replacement." They would have ahd a customer for life.
As it is I didnt think "To Hell and Back" Sig's Motto; meant the deal I would have to go through to get a decent gun out of them.

Rokman
November 3, 2010, 08:24 PM
That stinks Averageman. You lay your hard earned money down for something that should be quality and you get that. I wouldn't be happy either.

stubbicatt
November 3, 2010, 09:00 PM
Yep. About par for the course.

This isn't limited to SIG either. I really don't think American manufacturers have QC anymore, at least based on my experience in the last 10 years of buying firearms manufactured here.

alfack
November 3, 2010, 09:36 PM
I still think Sig makes some good products, but a friend of mine had the exact same issue. He couldn't adjust the sights enough to zero it properly.

I guess even the Germans have QC issues these days.

Zundfolge
November 3, 2010, 09:41 PM
Today they offered me a Sig 516 to replace the Sig Swat Patrol 556. Thats quite a deal for them, but I dont want it either.

The 516 is more expensive than the 556 so I'd take the deal and then sell the 516 without shooting it.

Or keep the 516 (its basically an AR15 so you can always make it work if you have to).


When it comes down to it, small boutique manufacturers are the way to go if you want top quality. Bigger companies have so much overhead they have to cut expenses somewhere.

Go with an LMT or POF or other semi-custom, small manufacturer piece and you'll likely be happier (especially if money isn't a concern)

sturmgewehr
November 3, 2010, 09:45 PM
As unpopular as this statement will be with many users, Sig USA stinks and they're dragging the brands image through the mud.

The 556 rifle has been plagued with quality problems since day one. Misssing sights from early models, sloppy fit and finish, sight rails way off center, etc.

Their first year or so with the GSR 1911 was nothing short of a disaster. Horrible quality issues, the guns should have never made it to market. I know first hand... I was one of the early guinea pigs.

...and lastly I've had enough quality issues with US Sig pistols that I've completely stopped buying them (two lemon P220s). I'll buy a good quality German made gun when I find one, but no more US made Sigs for me after getting several lemons.

sturmgewehr
November 3, 2010, 09:50 PM
I still think Sig makes some good products, but a friend of mine had the exact same issue. He couldn't adjust the sights enough to zero it properly.

I guess even the Germans have QC issues these days.

They're making them in the US. German made Sigs are still top quality. Sig USA just can't seem to get it's act together.

1858
November 3, 2010, 11:32 PM
They're making them in the US. German made Sigs are still top quality. Sig USA just can't seem to get it's act together.

I have three all German SIGs and five German/US SIGs and haven't had a single issue ... I guess I'm just lucky!!

:)

nwilliams
November 3, 2010, 11:33 PM
I love my Sig 556 and I'm only guessing here but I bet I'm not the only satisfied owner of one.

It sounds like you got a lemon 556 and some bad CS. Neither of this surprises me because Sig has always had a sketchy reputation for CS, not as bad as some other gun companies but they are certainly not top or bottom of the list.

I purchased my first Sig 556 when they first came out, I paid about $1,700 for it after tax and I was very disappointed when I got it. The flip-up rear sight was missing a piece and they included a Sig 226 manual instead of a Sig 556 one. I had feeding issues with it on the range and I was never quite satisfied with the accuracy I was getting out of it. I ended up selling it to a friend of mine and I lost some money on it.

Recently when the Sig 556 suddenly had a price drop I decided to take a chance and buy another one. Despite the trouble I had with my first 556 I still liked the design and I've always had a crush on the Sig 55x line of rifles and the 556 was as close as I could get to owning a 550 or 551. So I bought a Sig 556 Classic and paid about $1k for it. For the price I paid I can deal with the fact that it's not as accurate as my AR and so far I haven't had any issues with the gun on the range, I'm completely satisfied with the 556 I have now.

The truth is any company that manufactures in the volume that Sig does is going to put out a few lemon guns and they CS is not going to be as good as you'd expect from a smaller company that needs to keep up good appearances in order to stay in the game with the big dogs. The reason why gun companies offer warranties on their products is because they know that they can't possibly guarantee that every gun that leaves the factory is going to be perfect.

InkEd
November 3, 2010, 11:58 PM
My Sig556 Classic is perfect. Got it with the rotory sight and Red dot for $1100. Sorry about your bad luck. This gun has just impressed me and everyone else that's handled it. The only thing less than awesome about it is the magazine.

docnyt
November 4, 2010, 12:02 AM
Sorry about your lemon, OP. Love my 556 but I did get ruffled when the price tanked the way it did. Maybe give it another try later on or buy one that's been broken in.

sturmgewehr
November 4, 2010, 12:39 AM
I hate to point out the obvious but the rather sharp price drop of the 556 rifles is likely due to their decreasing sales. My local shop has had many issues with the 556's and has watched as the initial excitement has turned to disappointment and poor sales.

I wanted one badly when they announced them but never handled one that passed my initial review. Every one of the samples I've handled has had at least a canted rail, unfortunately.

CraigC
November 4, 2010, 12:51 AM
Maybe I'm just more patient than most folks but getting a replacement after two months and a bunch of free stuff is not bad service to me. "Stuff" happens and these things take time. No, it ain't perfect but we don't live in a perfect world, unfortunately.

Averageman
November 4, 2010, 06:45 AM
In Bold
Maybe I'm just more patient than most folks but getting a replacement after two months and a bunch of free stuff is not bad service to me.
Bunch of free stuff? I have a scope they had on Sale that month and when it was sent to me C/S was "SURE" my replacement rifle would get here at the same time
"Stuff" happens and these things take time.
And the Irony is I work in the Defence Industry and as I stood atop a Vehicle I was working on; the C/S guy from Sig said the same thing. Well I stand behind my work ..literally. I deploy with these guys and their vehicles wherever they go. I wonder if Sig would do that?
No, it ain't perfect but we don't live in a perfect world, unfortunately.
And being complacient in our work, or not calling out others who are will let it remain imperfect. Sig screwed up and is taking its sweet time fixing it. Thats wrong, I dont care what you make, but when you make Firearms the level of integrity and attention to detail should be a little higher.
BTW Folks, feel free to take a look at the Sig 556 Board.
http://sigarms556.com/index.php?sid=34571a3ee2f0aa2566f8f7000ee05211
There is a Guy there who has gone through 3 or 4 replacement 556"s all of them Lemon's to some degree. You might think at some point they would care.

SaxonPig
November 4, 2010, 09:34 AM
Unfortunate situation. But we must remember that humans are imperfect and anything made by humans will also be imperfect. Every once in a while a clinker gets through.

When I was young and single I dated this girl who turned out to be a real witch. Should I have given up on women based on one experience?

docnyt
November 4, 2010, 09:51 AM
Unfortunate situation. But we must remember that humans are imperfect and anything made by humans will also be imperfect. Every once in a while a clinker gets through.

When I was young and single I dated this girl who turned out to be a real witch. Should I have given up on women based on one experience?
Yes. See below:

#10. You can trade an old 44 for a new 22.

#9. You can keep one gun at home and have another for when you're on the road.

#8. If you admire a friend's gun and tell him so, he will probably let you try it out a few times.

#7. Your primary gun doesn't mind if you keep another gun for a backup.

#6. Your gun will stay with you even if you run out of ammo.

#5. A gun doesn't take up a lot of closet space.

#4. Guns function normally every day of the month.

#3. A gun doesn't ask , "Do these new grips make me look fat?"

#2. A gun doesn't mind if you go to sleep after you use it.

And the number one reason a gun is favored over a woman....

#1. YOU CAN BUY A SILENCER FOR A GUN

LiquidTension
November 4, 2010, 09:51 AM
I have one of the early models and it has performed flawlessly. I wouldn't know about their CS as I haven't needed to use it for the rifle and I don't like their pistols.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
November 4, 2010, 10:35 AM
3) A mystery spring fell out of the buttstock,..I have no idea where it goes.
4) The folding stock would never lock in to the folding position.


Think those 2 are interelated? Just sayin.

Sky
November 4, 2010, 11:13 AM
All my weapon purchases have been from manufactures who say they test fire everyone of their rifles before they leave the supplier.

I have had two that ended up having trigger glitches ( one squeeze two or more rounds would fire) after a couple of mags but have never had anything that I feel should have been caught from the briefest of QC inspection.

Pistols do not seem to be fired like rifles but golly gee letting a weapon with your name on it with obvious discrepancies out the door is not good business.

Natural selection works pretty much on all levels.

Rail Driver
November 4, 2010, 11:28 AM
So I bought a Sig 556 Classic and paid about $1k for it. For the price I paid I can deal with the fact that it's not as accurate as my AR and so far I haven't had any issues with the gun on the range, I'm completely satisfied with the 556 I have now.

I don't know about you, but I paid under 800 for my AR before addons (UBR and BAD lever ... nothing special), and i'd bet it's more accurate than your 1k+ Sig 556 too. I'd be pretty upset if I couldn't get at least a 1.5" group at 100 yds out of a $1000 rifle. Hell, I'm upset if I don't get (at the largest) 3" at 100 yds out of a $500 rifle.

I can't see spending that kind of money on a rifle if it's not at least as accurate as I am.

Zundfolge
November 4, 2010, 11:53 AM
Unfortunate situation. But we must remember that humans are imperfect and anything made by humans will also be imperfect. Every once in a while a clinker gets through.

I think most of us would agree with that, however while SIG has a long reputation for building top notch guns the user/owner experience with the American made 556s falls WAY short of that reputation. That is a problem (especially for SIG).

InkEd
November 4, 2010, 11:54 AM
FWIW even a base model Sig556 comes with more features than most stock ARs. It's also an adjustable piston operating system. The Sig isn't as accurate as an AR that is a fact. The reliablity is were it has an advantage over the AR. The best way to describe the Sig55x style of rifles is a cross between an AK operating system that breaks on pivot like an AR for easy cleaning and maintenance. It takes 5.56 AR mags, so if SHTF you can toss mags between Sig556 and AR15 users.

Both are good systems and I wouldn't feel poorly armed with either. I would prefer my Sig556 because I just can't warm-up to the way the AR feels in my hands. This is probably because I have always prefered the feel of the AK, CETME, FAL, HK and other European styled rifles.

nwilliams
November 4, 2010, 08:28 PM
I think most of us would agree with that, however while SIG has a long reputation for building top notch guns the user/owner experience with the American made 556s falls WAY short of that reputation. That is a problem (especially for SIG).
I would like to see the proof that the Sig 556 is in any way inferior to the other Sig 55x rifles other than the fact that the fact that it's not full auto. The Sig 556 upper is nearly identical in construction to any of the other Sig 55x rifle uppers with the exception of the barrel length on certain models.

The Sig 556 lower is different in because it's designed to use AR mags (which isn't a bad thing) and it has an aluminum lower receiver but the internals are almost identical as well. Any Sig 55x upper will work fine on a Sig 556 lower for example.

Also since so few of us here in the States have personal experience with the other Sig 55x rifles there is very little credibility when people here say that the 556 is not the same quality as it's European brethren.

Maverick223
November 4, 2010, 09:38 PM
I dont reccomend you buy a Sig 556I'll take that under advisement, but I am really having trouble saying "no" to one of Tony Rumore's .458SOCOM SIG-556s. :D

Prion
November 4, 2010, 10:06 PM
Unfortunately there is someone saying the exact same thing about every manufacturer.

Name one factory gunmaker that has been deemed flawless on THR or anywhere else.

My Sigs have been perfect, doesn't mean Sigs are.

You got a lemon, doesn't mean all Sigs are.

Hanzo581
November 4, 2010, 10:24 PM
Remember for every one person who writes about a good experience ten write about a bad one. Just the way the world works.

Sorry you got a lemon.

jerkface11
November 4, 2010, 10:44 PM
You got a lemon, doesn't mean all Sigs are.

I don't think him getting a lemon is the problem. The problem seems to be their unwillingness to fix it.

krinko
November 5, 2010, 12:20 AM
"there is very little credibility when people here say that the 556 is not the same quality as it's European brethren."

We fire Swiss rifle matches here in Nebraska---that is, we fire the same match the Swiss soldier fires for annual qualification and get the same medal the soldier gets when he qualifies. If we qualify.
This last summer there were two 556 rifles at this match and neither of them would group at 300 meters. Neither could be persuaded to fire a qualifying score----by anyone who tried. (My rifle would not hold zero after the second shot and became completely random inside twenty rounds, for instance.)

The Swiss army can certainly get their SIG rifles to punch holes in the stinking "4" ring of that camo silhouette----I find a lot of nice, juicy "credibility" in the poor performance of the US made items.

There are far too many lemons in the US made rifles----maybe SIG/USA should open a Lemonade stand?
-----krinko

PS I do like my 522.

happygeek
November 5, 2010, 12:53 AM
The first CMMG 22LR AR15 upper I and the wife got had to be sent back almost immediately as it'd jam literally 1 out of 5 rounds constantly. They shipped it back quick enough (1 or 2 weeks) and it functioned after that, but only liked Federal and Winchester. No biggie, both are cheap at Walmart.

Spikes Tactical screwed up my order once but made it right within days.

I've got a Sig 556, Sig 1911, and a Century Arms AK74 that have been fine. Maybe I'm lucky there.

Sorry about your experience. That is some bad CS.

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 04:19 AM
This last summer there were two 556 rifles at this match and neither of them would group at 300 meters. Neither could be persuaded to fire a qualifying score----by anyone who tried. (My rifle would not hold zero after the second shot and became completely random inside twenty rounds, for instance.)

The Swiss army can certainly get their SIG rifles to punch holes in the stinking "4" ring of that camo silhouette----I find a lot of nice, juicy "credibility" in the poor performance of the US made items.

That doesn't exclude the possibility that there is a person behind the gun that is the problem and that with another Sig 55x rifle they would be more accurate.

Just because a few people on the internet say that their Sig 556 is not accurate does not mean that the truth is being told. In a side by side comparison with the same shooter firing a 556 and a 55x perhaps then you will have some credibility to the statement that the 556 is less accurate than any of the other 55x rifles. When you toss two different shooters into the equation with two different rifles you can't say that one rifle is superior to the other, the ability of the shooter and how comfortable they are with the firearm in question always had to be taken into account when doing a credible comparison. Far too often people will claim that a firearm is not accurate when in reality the shooter behind the gun is simply not proficient with the gun, replace that shooter with a different one and you may see completely different results.

ThunderDownUnder
November 5, 2010, 04:24 AM
Hahahaha, are you for real! The exact thing happened to a colleague of mine, sigs are crap anywat.

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 05:39 AM
Hahahaha, are you for real! The exact thing happened to a colleague of mine, sigs are crap anywat.
Nice contribution to the conversation, care to elaborate or are you just trolling?....

ThunderDownUnder
November 5, 2010, 06:18 AM
Well, lets be honest. If your "prescion made" handgun, has sights which can't hit a brick wall at 20 paces, and you can't get a refund for, then whats the point? Also at station range days, i've found sigs of any make are rather prone to jamming. Also the trigger just doesn't feel right.

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 07:01 AM
Well, lets be honest. If your "prescion made" handgun, has sights which can't hit a brick wall at 20 paces, and you can't get a refund for, then whats the point? Also at station range days, i've found sigs of any make are rather prone to jamming. Also the trigger just doesn't feel right.

An inaccurate handgun is usually not the fault of the gun, it's the fault of the shooter behind it. It's not to say that the shooter is not a good shot but not all guns are right for all shooters. I've owned plenty of handguns and rifles that didn't work for me but worked fine for others and I've heard plenty of people complain about guns that didn't work for them but worked fine for me.

Saying that all guns a company produces is "crap" is your personal opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. However keep in mind that for every one person that agrees with you there are probably a hundred others who don't. I know many very satisfied Sig owners and I bet there are more satisfied Sig owners on THR than there are unsatisfied ones.

pro2
November 5, 2010, 07:53 AM
Unfortunate situation. But we must remember that humans are imperfect and anything made by humans will also be imperfect. Every once in a while a clinker gets through.

When I was young and single I dated this girl who turned out to be a real witch. Should I have given up on women based on one experience?
I do not pay for quality women. I pay for quality firearms. I expected every girlie that I dated to be a "clinker." When I eventually found a good girl, I married her!

Thanx for this thread.... based upon information found here, and the links, I will not touch a 556 with a ten foot pole... and I'm a SIG guy! Thank you!

jimsmith80
November 5, 2010, 08:02 AM
I should say that the first sig 556 I got was a peice of crap. At 100 it would not group with any ammo I could find. So I took the rifle over to the Army Base and had a few of the sniper instructors and snipers shoot it. Non of them could get the rifle to fire groups under 6 MOA. So to say that the guy who started this thread just got a bad rifle is crap. I send my rifle back to sig. They sent me a brand new 556 and added the metal rail system and a magazine. I then call sig and spoke to the "scott" you are talking about. He said that the initial rifles where barreled with surplus 550 barrels than the swiss had send them The swiss figured they could pawn the crap barrels onto american shooters and make money from them instead of just scraping the barrels. That is what he told me. Now I have no way to confirm that it is just what scott at sig arms told me. The new rifle they sent me Shoots much better and I think that they put alot of attention into my new rifle because it is much more accurate. I think it was shooting about 2 MOA with cheap wolf 55gr FMJ, and just over 1moa with Black hills 77gr Match. However after about a month the buttstock on the new rifle broke. The spring of something in there broke and the stock would just fall off. I had an extra PRS stock around that I was not using so I put that on it and now the rifle is much better balanced and fairly accurate.
However for all the crap I had to go through with the 556 I will never again buy another sig rifle. I still like their pistols and have had only good luck with them. I really like the thought behind the sig Ar10 that takes M14 mags but after the 556 I won't go near one. Perhaps in ten years the few sig 556's out there that work will be worth money to a collector because i think that the rifle will soon be pulled from the market. Incedenty the 556 that I own is up for sale. Anyone want a good price on a 556??

krinko
November 5, 2010, 03:41 PM
"That doesn't exclude the possibility that there is a person behind the gun that is the problem and that with another Sig 55x rifle they would be more accurate."

If the "person behind the gun...is the problem" why would "another Sig 55x rifle" make them "be more accurate"?
Were you trying to say that the rifle might be more accurate in the hands of another shooter?

Well, nwilliams, as you can see, I don't know a damn thing about shooting Swiss rifles.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL165/1109208/4657445/393162388.jpg


http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL165/1109208/4657445/393162387.jpg

The other 556 that day went through several shooters---incuding a guy who is what the NRA calls a "Distinguished Rifleman"---(Not sure that is the correct title)---anyway, this guy can outshoot my regular 94% any day and if he can't make the rifle group...
-----krinko

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 04:02 PM
Well, nwilliams, as you can see, I don't know a damn thing about shooting Swiss rifles.
Your point being?

I never said that you know nothing about shooting Swiss rifles, my point was that sometimes people jump to the conclusion that the gun is the problem when in fact it's the shooter. You may very well have had a problematic 556 rifle but that doesn't mean that every single 556 that leaves the factory is going to behave the same way.

There are plenty of Sig 556 owners out there that are very satisfied with their gun. Simply do a google search for Sig 556 accuracy and you'll find plenty of positive reviews from owners of the 556 and it's accuracy, I found more positive reviews than negative ones in fact. So is everyone who actually likes their Sig 556 wrong?

Mikee Loxxer
November 5, 2010, 04:03 PM
I was there nwilliams. It was not a problem with the shooters as when they switched back to the K31 all was well. From the perspective of us at the match the SIG 556 is not up to the accuracy standard one expects from Swiss rifles. Sounds like the ones made in US aren't worth the trouble.

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 04:17 PM
I was there nwilliams. It was not a problem with the shooters as when they switched back to the K31 all was well. From the perspective of us at the match the SIG 556 is not up to the accuracy standard one expects from Swiss rifles. Sounds like the ones made in US aren't worth the trouble.

I'm not arguing that the people shooting those Sig 556 rifles there were bad shooters, all I'm saying is that not everyone would agree that their Sig 556 is not accurate. Some people have had very good luck with their Sig 556 rifles and are getting good accuracy out of them. So it's possible that some problematic 556's leave the factory but that doesn't mean that every one of them that leaves the factory is problematic.

Lakedaemonian
November 5, 2010, 04:20 PM
I think the sig 556 looks dumb. & probably would feel dumb too i f I had my hands on one. Personally, I can't bash sig though. They make some fine weaponry (love my P226), but let's face it. The sig 556 was designed purely for sig to keep up with the passing "gas piston assault rifle" consumer demand. In doing so, they stamped out something that looked the part. Personally, I have a SCAR. I friggin LOVE it. Its a nail driver, reliable, clean, & FN customer service is top notch.

Lakedaemonian
November 5, 2010, 04:31 PM
P.S. problem w/ an argument like this one is nobody has any idea what the other guys credentials are...
I.e. gunsmith, soldier, competition shooter, or.... just a guy w/ too much money and no real experience. Lthe last comment wasn't directed at anyone) the point is, how can anyone take comments off this forum to heart when some guys commenting don't have the "word from the cats mouth" or first hand experience in the matter. I always get a kick outta folks who say "just google it, there's lots of people who like it". WHO CARES WHAT EVERYONE ELSE LIKES/DOES! Cut your own path bro, if it don't work for ya, ***** can it and reach for whatever does work for ya.

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 05:17 PM
The sig 556 was designed purely for sig to keep up with the passing "gas piston assault rifle" consumer demand. In doing so, they stamped out something that looked the part. Personally, I have a SCAR. I friggin LOVE it. Its a nail driver, reliable, clean, & FN customer service is top notch.
Perhaps but there has been a high demand for a Sig 550/551'ish rifle in the US market for quite some time. Years ago Sig was able to import civilian versions of the Sig 551 but the assault rifle import ban in 1989 blocked Sig from being able to import them after a short time so they are very rare and pricey these days.

Now that Sig can build the rifles here in the US there is no import restrictions to contend with and could provide the US market with a Sig 55x style rifle, the Sig 556 is what they came up with.

I also have a SCAR and it is far more accurate than my Sig 556 and even more accurate than my Daniel Defense AR. However I like having variety in my collection so even though the SCAR is more accurate than the other two I still plan to keep them all. The Sig 556 is good enough rifle for a little under $1k, it's another black rifle to have in the collection and it's something different than an AR or AK. However it doesn't come close to competing with the SCAR, and that's to be expected considering the difference in cost between the two, you get what you pay for and for $1k or less the Sig 556 meets that criteria. If the Sig 556 sold for around the same price as the SCAR and I had paid that much for one then I would no doubt be spitting fire at Sig. This is why I'm glad I got rid of the first Sig 556 I had that I paid over a little over $1,700 for, it certainly wasn't worth the price I paid for it.

greyeyezz
November 5, 2010, 06:30 PM
there is very little credibility when people here say that the 556 is not the same quality as it's European brethren.

If you think the quality of an American made 556 is on par with a Swiss made 550 you are either delusional or smoking something very powerful.

SaxonPig
November 5, 2010, 06:32 PM
Well, Pro2 (and all othes saying the same thing), if you choose to pass on a model (or even a manufacturer) based on one or a couple bad reports that's your choice.

But name something with zero bad reports. What do you ever buy?

Oh, and if you've never paid for a woman then you've never had a woman in your life... and bear in mind that money isn't the only medium of exchange when it comes to relationships.

InkEd
November 5, 2010, 06:38 PM
I think people ar expecting AR accuracy out of an AK type design. It doesn't work that way to frequently. If you don't like them then don't buy one. I wouldn't trade mine for 2 ARs or anything else. I bought it because I've always like AKs but wanted something more refined. That's what I got from it. The gun is somewhat of a "Gentleman's AK" so to speak.

sturmgewehr
November 5, 2010, 06:49 PM
Couple of bad reports? That's why the price has fallen some 40% in the last year? The problems are widespread and the poor sales reflect this.

12131
November 5, 2010, 07:43 PM
Just a latest example of poor Sig QC. Is it still run by the Kimber guy?:rolleyes:

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 08:52 PM
If you think the quality of an American made 556 is on par with a Swiss made 550 you are either delusional or smoking something very powerful.
Are you speaking from experience or just assuming?:rolleyes:

If the Sig 550/551 is better quality or worse quality than the 556 then tell us why. I will certainly not claim that the Sig 556 is better or worse because I've never owned, fired or even handled a 550/551 or any of the other 55x rifles.

You may very well be right but this is the internet, if people are who are simply screen names on a forum are going to make bold claims then at least back up those claims with some sort of factual information.

Couple of bad reports? That's why the price has fallen some 40% in the last year? The problems are widespread and the poor sales reflect this.
There is absolutely no evidence to back up this claim. I really doubt that the price drop has anything to do with reports of problems with the 556, it probably has more to do with the state of the economy right now and the fact that people across the country are becoming less inclined to spend like they once did. Also when you can buy an decent AR for $1,200 or less it only makes sense that Sig would lower the price on the 556 to keep people buying them instead of just buying an AR.

Also keep in mind that the Sig 516 hit the market at almost the exact time that the price dropped on the 556, seems like a big coincidence to me.

Hanzo581
November 5, 2010, 09:47 PM
I have a 556 on layaway, I am normally a pistol shooter and this will be my first rifle. I am not sure I understand the accuracy issues, is this rifle incapable of hitting a human size target at 100yds? Isn't that the general purpose of this rifle? I am not buying it as a target rifle so I assume I will not be dissappointed.

Maverick223
November 5, 2010, 09:57 PM
I think the sig 556 looks dumb. & probably would feel dumb too i f I had my hands on one.Well that sounds like a well thought out, objective statement...I will definitely not buy one now! :rolleyes:

The sig 556 was designed purely for sig to keep up with the passing "gas piston assault rifle" consumer demand.It was designed long before the "GP demand", in the 70s IIRC. They import the SA variant (SIG-556) to the US because of demand, but what company doesn't?

I am not sure I understand the accuracy issues, is this rifle incapable of hitting a human size target at 100yds?With ease.

:)

sturmgewehr
November 5, 2010, 10:06 PM
There is absolutely no evidence to back up this claim. I really doubt that the price drop has anything to do with reports of problems with the 556, it probably has more to do with the state of the economy right now and the fact that people across the country are becoming less inclined to spend like they once did. Also when you can buy an decent AR for $1,200 or less it only makes sense that Sig would lower the price on the 556 to keep people buying them instead of just buying an AR.
The evidence I have is that what other modern rifle on the market has lost 40% of its value in a year? Answer: None. Heck, there's companies like Arsenal getting as much as $1500 for an AK. The economy must have little to do with it if folks are buying $800-$1200 AK's $2,400 SCARs, etc. Why is it only the 556 that's suffering under this economy in your view?

If sales were strong they wouldn't drop the price so much. They couldn't keep them on the shelves when they were new, I waited several months to even see one of the early ones that lacked open sights... and they were gone almost instantly. Not now. They linger on shelves in my area, even at the new much lower price point.

millertyme
November 5, 2010, 10:16 PM
I have had two that ended up having trigger glitches ( one squeeze two or more rounds would fire)

You call that a trigger glitch? I would imagine once I found out about something like that I might call it FULLY-functional.

1858
November 5, 2010, 10:21 PM
The evidence I have is that what other modern rifle on the market has lost 40% of its value in a year? Answer: None.

The Mini-14 seems to have come down in price quite a bit over the last year. Regardless, you'd need to show some data to be convincing with that argument since I'm sure that many, many ARs are now considerably cheaper than 12 to 18 months ago. There's no doubt that the 556 price has dropped considerably. My LGS had the SWAT model for $1,850 last year and now I can buy one online for $1,250. I would be quite annoyed if I'd bought one a year ago.

:)

Maverick223
November 5, 2010, 10:31 PM
Fact is: nearly all production rifles decline in price after being on the market for a while. This is especially true of highly anticipated new models, particularly with "tactical" rifles/carbines. SIG has simply moved the price-point to meet demand.

:)

nwilliams
November 5, 2010, 11:24 PM
The evidence I have is that what other modern rifle on the market has lost 40% of its value in a year? Answer: None. Heck, there's companies like Arsenal getting as much as $1500 for an AK. The economy must have little to do with it if folks are buying $800-$1200 AK's $2,400 SCARs, etc. Why is it only the 556 that's suffering under this economy in your view?

Easy, the MSAR Stg-556

At the beginning of the year they were selling around $1,700 most places and then almost overnight the price on them dropped to around $1k. I paid around $1,700 for my first MSAR about two years ago and I'm really glad I sold it before the price drop. After the price drop I got one for $1,250 and I probably could have found one for even less if I had shopped around a little more.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the sudden price drop on the MSAR didn't provide a reason for Sig to drop the price on the Sig 556. However I think it's more likely that the price drop on the MSAR stg-556 wasn't a result of the E4 version hitting the market. Usually when a company introduces a new product line they older models go down in price, this is probably the case with MSAR and probably the case with Sig as well.

Evil Monkey
November 6, 2010, 03:42 AM
Those who think the sig556 is as good as the real deal swiss sig55x rifles need to read here.....


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31632
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=770087

While it's nice to have a working sig556 out of the box, its QC issues should not be tested by potential buyers for any price.

greyeyezz
November 6, 2010, 08:01 AM
Mosey on over to 556 forum and take a look at some actual photographs.

Would a 550 leave the factory with chipping finish, canted sights, non functioning folding stock, damaged carrier?

Pics don't lie.

Here's a pic of the guys third rifle back to him with chipped finish.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/greyeyezz/11-6-20108-05-55AM.png

Prion
November 6, 2010, 08:33 AM
Everything is sitting on the shelves right now. My LGS is hardly moving anything.

Everyone bought before Obama and the economy is in the tank.

I'm not suprised the 556 price dropped because of those factors and it is also competing with the wildly popular AR.

The gun forum geeks make up a small portion of the gun buying public. Ego might make one think we are exerting some great influence on Sigs price structure. We're not that important.

sturmgewehr
November 6, 2010, 09:08 AM
Easy, the MSAR Stg-556

At the beginning of the year they were selling around $1,700 most places and then almost overnight the price on them dropped to around $1k. I paid around $1,700 for my first MSAR about two years ago and I'm really glad I sold it before the price drop. After the price drop I got one for $1,250 and I could have found one for even less if I had shopped around a little more.

Do you have another example? The MSAR has been racked with problems since day one. They've gone through many several different bolt designs and people have had to send theirs in for a number of functioning issues. I know about his debacle first hand. It's why I no longer have one a and our local store stopped selling them. Over on AR15.com there was a long running thread about all the reliability problems people were having with them.

Bad reputations are easily earned and hard to beat.

Yeah, I would expect a price drop on them. I'm sure their sales tanked to, especially now that the real AUG is back on the market.

The ACR is still $2k. The SCAR is still $2,400. AK's are still bringing $800-$1500. DSA FAL's still sell for $2k+, M1A's still bring $1,500+, Colt AR15 Carbines still bring $1,500 or so. I don't see any other rifles dropping 40%. A quick check of Guns America confirms this.

nwilliams
November 6, 2010, 11:49 AM
Do you have another example? The MSAR has been racked with problems since day one. They've gone through many several different bolt designs and people have had to send theirs in for a number of functioning issues. I know about his debacle first hand. It's why I no longer have one a and our local store stopped selling them. Over on AR15.com there was a long running thread about all the reliability problems people were having with them.
I've owned two of them and never had any issues with either one. Most of the reviews I've read on the MSAR's are positive, people who own them generally like them. Also MSAR is well known for having stellar customer service so most issues are people have are well resolved from what I've heard. Also the MSAR requires about a 200 round break-in period.

The ACR is still $2k. The SCAR is still $2,400. AK's are still bringing $800-$1500. DSA FAL's still sell for $2k+, M1A's still bring $1,500+, Colt AR15 Carbines still bring $1,500 or so. I don't see any other rifles dropping 40%. A quick check of Guns America confirms this.
I remember during the Obama scare people were paying $600-$800 for WASR AK's and now they are back down to around $350 most places. Also AR's were typically selling for hundreds more than they are selling for now. I think Sig finally realized two things, one, that the Obama scare is over and people aren't panic buying like they were before and two, that asking much more than $1k for the Sig 556 is ridiculous when you can buy a decent AR for around the same price. While I don't agree that the 556 is as bad as some people say and a decent rifle for $1k or less, however a $1,500+ rifle it is not.

Well, regardless I think it's fair to assume that we can agree to disagree on the Sig 556 and it's price and quality.;)

zhyla
November 6, 2010, 06:22 PM
Unfortunately, in the real world that we live in even the best manufacturers of anything put out a crap unit once in a while. It's really hard to tell a 1 in a million from a 1 in 20 problem if you only buy one gun. But it's always a bummer to be the guy with that 1 dud.

Maverick223
November 6, 2010, 07:23 PM
Do you have another example? The MSAR has been racked with problems since day one.I suppose I just pick all the bad ones...I plan to get a new MSAR MCS in .45ACP as soon as they come out. Seems as if I just pick all the bad ones...and so far I have just gotten lucky with 'em...wish me luck. :p

sturmgewehr
November 6, 2010, 07:59 PM
I suppose I just pick all the bad ones...I plan to get a new MSAR MCS in .45ACP as soon as they come out. Seems as if I just pick all the bad ones...and so far I have just gotten lucky with 'em...wish me luck.
Let us know how it shoots, it sounds cool. I ditched my MSAR back when it had issues as I'm not real patient testing new designs... my mistake was that I didn't think it was a new design but a high quality clone of an existing one.

I'm sure now they have the kinks worked out, I'm just not interested in the 5.56 MSAR anymore given the real AUG is on the market once again. I may have to grab one before something causes them to dry up again.

But the .45 ACP rifle sounds killer. My KRISS sucks... I SBR'ed it and keep it around as a novelty, but reliability isn't one of its strong suits.

G27RR
November 6, 2010, 08:00 PM
It's too bad Sig can't keep their quality consistent. I like my 556 SWAT quite a bit, but my P238 has been one of the problem ones. The 556 is accurate, though not sub-MOA like some ARs. On the other hand, you can fold the stock and stow it in a smaller space. The piston system after 500 rounds keeps the action cleaner than my ARs after half that, it is extremely solid, and the side charging hndle and ambi-safeties are pluses in my opinion.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n634/G27RR/SigSauer556SWATfoldedstocklt.jpg

Hatterasguy
November 6, 2010, 09:37 PM
The only difference between the Sig 556 and 550 are the lowers. Last I heard the 556's were still shipping with the full auto bolt carrier which is interesting since the full auto lowers are not an NFA item, but whatever.

Anyway they are the same, and IMHO they are probably the best carbine chambered in 5.56 made.


If the quality of the American made ones isn't up to your liking and I do admit Sig USA has had some issues, buy a Swiss one.

Hatterasguy
November 6, 2010, 09:43 PM
"That doesn't exclude the possibility that there is a person behind the gun that is the problem and that with another Sig 55x rifle they would be more accurate."

If the "person behind the gun...is the problem" why would "another Sig 55x rifle" make them "be more accurate"?
Were you trying to say that the rifle might be more accurate in the hands of another shooter?

Well, nwilliams, as you can see, I don't know a damn thing about shooting Swiss rifles.

Krinko what do you usually shoot? I have been having a blast with my K31 an 1911, if my state wasn't so communist I would have a PE57 and 550 in my collection. Anyway thinking about adding a K11 and maybe some Swiss Luger's to the collection soon.

I'm thinking about taking my SCM down to the receiver and building a 550 out of it, do you know by any chance if they changed anything? I think most of the guts are about the same. I know the barrels and gas blocks are a bit different, but the bolt carriers and lowers should interchange. I'm holding off since it will be expensive and even with all the problems my SCM has been a very good rifle. I took it to the Appleseed a few months ago and it kept up just fine, I have about 7k rounds through it and can't really complain. So spending $2k on a parts kit to take apart a good rifle is hard to swallow.

krinko
November 6, 2010, 10:17 PM
"Krinko what do you usually shoot?"

Hatterasguy,
I use a K31 dating from 1957, equipped with the Swiss diopter and tunnel sights.
-----krinko

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL165/1109208/4657445/393191471.jpg

Hatterasguy
November 6, 2010, 10:22 PM
Cool my K31 is about the same vintage 1955, if I remember correctly 57 was the last year. Do you have the matching bayonet as well?

Whats a good source for those sights, I was thinking about getting a set.

I love K31's if I didn't leave my wallet home when I went to the gunshow last weekend I would have bought another. My favorite are the ones with really horrible stocks but good metal, once I re shellac them they really shine.

InkEd
November 6, 2010, 10:22 PM
I THINK IF IF YOU LIKE ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN AR-15 YOU'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO ENJOY YOUR KOOL-AID WITHOUT SUGAR.

(Sugar or a forward vertical grip, laser, flashlight, bayonet, cable box, cigarette lighter universal remote and whatever other crap that gets mixed in with the AR flavored variety.)

Not to get off topic BUT people realize that they CAN buy an AR for the same or less than a Sig556. They simply have zero desire to own one. So feel free to quit mentioning it. Among actual Sig556 owners the majority seem satisfied for the most part.

People seem to forget the Sig556, while based on existing rifle, it is actually a fairly new design. (Even the 550 isn't that old a design relatively speaking.) It wasn't until recentmy that the AR has become to thought of as a reliable rifle.

Should Sig experiment with a design on customers paying over $1000?
No.

However, it is better than the way the AR platform was rolled out in Viet Nam.

I would rather my range toy malfunction and get sent back to the factory in a Fed Ex box; than a soldier's field rifle malfunction and HIM get sent home in a wood box.

AR people calling other rifles unreliable is just plain funny to me. YMMV.

ALL THAT SAID, I SAY BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE AND ENJOY IT!!!

krinko
November 7, 2010, 01:02 AM
"ALL THAT SAID, I SAY BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE AND ENJOY IT!!!"

That's easy to say, InkEd, but can you back up this radical claim with proper documentation?
-----krinko

InkEd
November 7, 2010, 01:10 AM
You'll just have to take my word for it.:D

Maverick223
November 7, 2010, 12:39 PM
Let us know how it shoots, it sounds coolWill do. I have high hopes, but I won't hold back if it turns out to be a dud either.

:)

jimsmith80
November 7, 2010, 08:02 PM
As I said the main problem is that sig was using surplus barrels from Europe that are junk. The replacement rifle they send me does work wonderful. But its kinda like once bitten twice shy. But the new rifle does shoot much better as I said. I am not just trying to shaft Sig Arms because I am a hugh fan that is why I bought the 556 in the first place. I am just very disapoined that a great company would screw this up. I think that when the guy who started this post gets his new rifle from sig he will be happy with it because I am sure that sig will make sure that it is right. But the whole point is that when you pay even 1000$ for a tool that tool should work properly. Sig is only hurting themselves to do otherwise. So whatever they need to do they should do it. They should also pay a little more attention to quality control.

Averageman
November 8, 2010, 06:57 AM
I hope they make it right.
I'm not happy with excuses, would they have accepted an excuse if my check bounced? You see thats the way I look at this, they wrote a check with that rifle and it has Sig's name on it and it bounced.
It isn't that a Lemon got by them, it happens. It is the lack of C/S that came along with the Lemon.
They can make it right or I can get my money back.
If it were you, your money, your time and frustration; I'm sure you'ld feel the same.

InkEd
November 8, 2010, 09:41 AM
I agree the way customer service handled your problems was not up to par. However, they did offer you a new rifle. A brand new gun is really as much you can possibly expect. The new one will come with all the mags and stuff, so if you kelt your old mags consider them free for the hassle.

Personally, I wouldn't want a 516 either. It is a more expensive rifle BUT one of the reasons I bought a 556 was because I don't care for AR platform. Piston or No Piston, it still is an AR style rifle. I would prefer they keep sending me 556s until I got one that was properly done. I agree it is a crying shame that Sig customer service and quality control are not consistent. Their guns aren't exactly inexpensive and they should try to improve those departments. Perhaps they could forsake the free SigSauer stickers and use that money for an extra QC inspector?

BTW I saw somebody mention that the Sig55x rifles feel front heavy. While being just plain heavy is not up for debate, people should see how the rifle balances with 2 or 3 mags hooked together like the original 550s are often depicted. IMHO it seems to balance very well with the extra magazines attached. Too bad the mags they come with aren't exactly the best ones on the market. AR mags are cheap though.

Dulvarian
November 8, 2010, 10:33 PM
I only have about 1k rounds through my 556, but it is a fairly early serial. I found it for 1250 with a 100 MIR for LEO/Mil. 375 for an Eotech 512, and even with shipping and FFL, I got the gun and sights for less than I could buy just the rifle before taxes at my LGS. They sell USED 556's for 1800+. And it is pretty easy to spot a used one from the brass kisses, very violent extraction.

The only problem that I have had is that I didn't read the instruction manual on proper lubrication... and I didn't lube the piston spring. Believe it or not, that mattered after 4 or five cleanings. The sole problem I have had with the gun.

It does not like cheap, 55g Wolf. On some of the obviously undercharged cartridges (as in, you could hear the weak report), I knew I would have to manually charge another round. Taking it to the second gas port position let it cycle, but you could hear and feel the wear on the rifle from it. Me and my friends just burned that ammo out, back on the first gas setting, and cycled when we had to.

There are issues in certain bands of serial numbers where a misalignment of the bolt was causing excessive wear on the bolt. It seems that some xxxxxxx to yyyyyyy serials are plain lemons. I have lurked and posted on the Sig 556 forum, you can find me under the same name. (On RFC too, if I am not mistaken. In fact, if you Google Dulvarian... that's me. Long story.)

But the fact that they sent you a replacement is at least a step in the right direction. Better than them just telling you to :cuss: off. And the lack of customer service isn't limited to any one field. In general, it (mostly) all stinks.

Averageman
November 9, 2010, 06:58 AM
However, they did offer you a new rifle. A brand new gun is really as much you can possibly expect. The new one will come with all the mags and stuff, so if you kelt your old mags consider them free for the hassle.

No Rifle yet, just a promise of a new rifle. I expect more than that when I buy a brand new gun, I expect what I paid for...... and still haven't recieved.
I wouldnt keep anything that didnt belong to me BTW everything went back in the case.

But the fact that they sent you a replacement is at least a step in the right direction. Better than them just telling you to off. And the lack of customer service isn't limited to any one field. In general, it (mostly) all stinks.
Yesterday 10:41 AM
Guys, no rifle has been sent, only a promise
My troubles with Sig have resulted in nothing but promises so far, but they do have my money and the old rifle.
I have the "Old Fashioned" expectation to get what I pay for, that still hasn't happened yet.
When you put out $1300 for a rifle you want it to work out of the box. The cure for this would be for Sig to take a bit more time with Q/C (maybe fire a 25 m 3 shot zero target and stick it in the box) and a different policy with C/S and get a replacement rifle in your hands ASAP.
If you think you would feel any different,...Mmmmmmm mail me $1300 and I will get back to you.

InkEd
November 9, 2010, 11:59 AM
I would be on the darn phone every other day until I got my rifle.

How long has it been? If more than 2 weeks IMHO that's unacceptable.

Glocked-N-Loaded
November 9, 2010, 12:12 PM
My 522 didn't have a rollmark, nothing at all on the left side of the upper but the serial #, they wanted it back, I sent it back with full knowledge it was a simple replacement. They didn't need to keep it, get it to a gunsmith, correct an issue and send it back, but it took a full month. A full month for someone to take a new rifle off the shelf, put it on a truck, and get it into my hands. While it was the most aggravating experience, I absolutely love my 522 and would do it again. Also, they were kind enough to upgrade my 522 from a Classic to a SWAT for the trouble.

XD 45 gunner
November 10, 2010, 01:30 PM
This just doesn't make sense. A company like Sig should provide much better customer service than this. If I had purchased this rifle, I would no longer be confident in their weapons. You need to be able to rely on your weapons. Defending a company that sells weapons for an unreliable weapon is to me unacceptable. Quality control in weapons manufacturing should be paramount, what other items on this rifle are not up to spec?

Defending a manufacturer for substandard quality is laughable. Suppose a law enforement agent was issued this weapon, what are the consequences that could have happened? Reading this thread, I see that this is not an isolated incident which is worrisome. Averageman is getting the shaft and I think it is awful. Reading this, I will look elsewhere for my next AR platform.

Sig folks if you are reading this...... make it right. This is shameful.

Maverick223
November 10, 2010, 02:03 PM
Suppose a law enforement agent was issued this weapon, what are the consequences that could have happened? They would have to send it back to the manufacturer just like anyone else? Considering that ALL firearms manufacturers put out a dud from time to time, ALL firearms should be tested for function and accuracy before being employed for any use deemed important (whether that be for defense, hunting, or even target shooting/competition). To do otherwise is simply stupid.

Reading this, I will look elsewhere for my next AR platform.I suppose you should, considering that the rifle in question is not an AR, nor is it related to the AR platform. :neener:

XD 45 gunner
November 10, 2010, 02:23 PM
So what did you contribute to this thread? Personal attack on me?

Maverick223
November 10, 2010, 02:35 PM
So what did you contribute to this thread? Personal attack on me?If you consider either statement a personal attack, you are very soft skinned (BTW I added a smiley just for you). Perhaps you should clarify.

InkEd
November 10, 2010, 02:36 PM
They pointed out that it's not just Sig that has QC issues. (I've owned both a NIB S&W that had to be sent in twice before it was finally fixed properly.)

Secondly, there is no disagreement about the poor level of service he has be given by Sig. Although, full replacing the rifle and giving the option of even getting a more expensive model isn't too bad. The turnaround time is absurd though.

Lastly, the Sig556 isn't an AR based rifle as mentioned.


My only advice is to say, be a PITA until you get your replacement rifle. Daily phone calls would not be out of order IMHO. I hope it
gets resolved soon for you. Best of Luck.

Averageman
November 10, 2010, 07:28 PM
My next call to Sig will be Friday and that will have been 5 business days.
I have no intent of letting up on them until I get either a functioning rifle or my money back.
I will be sure and post the results.

Maverick223
November 11, 2010, 01:59 AM
It sounds like you're fed up with SIG, so when you call on Fri. i'd take 'em up on that SIG 516...then sell it and buy what you want. You should be able to get enough for most any decent 5.56Nato carbine (and it's not much less than the price of a Robarms XCR).

:)

Averageman
November 11, 2010, 08:06 PM
If I am not satisfied I will get my $ and not a rifle that I wouldnt have myself.
I wouldnt sell someone a rifle I wouldnt shoot or own.
They can get it right or give me the money back and that is the word from Sig.
Thanks
A/M

Maverick223
November 11, 2010, 09:57 PM
They can get it right or give me the money back and that is the word from Sig.I'd be very much surprised if they gave you a refund for the purchase price, but crazier things have happened. Good luck.

:)

mshootnit
November 11, 2010, 10:24 PM
When I was young and single I dated this girl who turned out to be a real witch. Should I have given up on women based on one experience?
I believe so.

JoeMal
November 11, 2010, 10:54 PM
I got a call back a week later and found out the weapon was defectiveI would have expected a replacement to be in the mail the same day if I got this call....defective weapon that I payed for? Ok, fine, replace it NOW, not in a few weeks

Makes me think twice about buying a Sig

SpeedAKL
November 12, 2010, 12:21 PM
As someone who has had an off-on interest in a 556 Classic, can anyone articulate the detail differences between a Swiss-made 550/551/552 and the US-made 556 in terms of componentry, parts quality, construction differences, etc.? I know the lower receiver and trigger group are obviously different but what else is changed?

Maverick223
November 12, 2010, 01:18 PM
I know the lower receiver and trigger group are obviously different but what else is changed?I believe the only design change (we can argue quality till the cows come home) is the furniture. IIRC it even has a FA bolt group (though I may be wrong).

:)

Hatterasguy
November 12, 2010, 02:49 PM
I believe the barrels are different since the US made Sig's use a nitride barrel, I think the Swiss STG90's use chrome lined.

Also the gas block is slightly narrower on the Swiss ones, and the piston and spring are slightly different, although I believe they are interchangeable.

AFAIK the US made receiver is about the same, just with a rail on top, and the carrier and bolt are the full auto ones. At least last I heard Sig was still putting full auto bolts and carriers in them.

You can convert a 556 into a 550 through a parts kit. Full auto lowers are easy to get if you have the money they are not cheap. Naturally putting them together is illegal, I'm just surprised the ATF hasn't said anything about it.
https://www.cogunsales.com/index.php/SIG-551-556-Parts-Accessories/SIG-550/551-Conversion-Kit-w/Barrel/Detailed-product-flyer.html

Averageman
November 12, 2010, 07:19 PM
I called Sig today...
NO ANSWER.
Hmmmmmm, Mr Scott are you out there?
The irony to me is so many of you defend a company (any company Sig S&W Colt etc.) while you give money to various organizations that allow them to stay in business.
When we contribute to the NRA etc. part of our dollars help these folks stay in business. Why do we settle for this behavior when in so many ways we own them?
The right thing to do is to call them out when they are wrong and deliver sub standard weapons.
Am I wrong?
90 + days and no rifle?? They have my money, the check cleared..Hmmmm.

Maverick223
November 12, 2010, 07:44 PM
The irony to me is so many of you defend a company (any company Sig S&W Colt etc.) while you give money to various organizations that allow them to stay in business.FWIW, I never defended them (cause I don't own one and never had to deal with their CS), only said that I wouldn't mind buying one (and converting it to .458SOCOM), and that all production firearms have their lemons. OTOH the CS problem is intolerable; though I don't believe i'll be cancelling my NRA membership on their behalf.

:)

Averageman
November 12, 2010, 11:18 PM
FWIW, I never defended them (cause I don't own one and never had to deal with their CS), only said that I wouldn't mind buying one (and converting it to .458SOCOM), and that all production firearms have their lemons. OTOH the CS problem is intolerable; though I don't believe i'll be cancelling my NRA membership on their behalf.
Nobody mentioned you personally, but since you speak so loudly so many times here in this post.
What do you have to offer besides personal attacks and whacked logic?
Please purchase one and personally covert it ( if you can) to whatever caliber you choose, then you can join me in fighting with Q/C and C/S...(BTW have you been to the Sig 556 website?) You will surely see the discontent that many owners have.
As far as the NRA and it's support of Sig and other manufacurers that produce malfunctioning weapons..what do you expect when they love Harry Reid?
Keep sending your money..they love you.

Jonny V
November 12, 2010, 11:29 PM
@Averageman: The problem is that you're trying to apply the customer service standards of yester-year. Modern capitalist corps don't act like that. They take your money and run.

Averageman
November 12, 2010, 11:56 PM
No Jonny; I am applying the customer service I give to what I expect.
I work in the defence industry, I have done Q/C work and I now as a field rep go where the customer goes to service the weapons systems I work on. I returned from Iraq in March, spent a year in the sandbox doing what was right for the customer.
With a motto of "To Hell and Back." they leave a little to be desired.
I am begining to think "To Hell and Back." is what the C/S is all about.
Still no call from Mr. Scott at Sig.

Maverick223
November 13, 2010, 12:23 AM
Nobody mentioned you personally, but since you speak so loudly so many times here in this post.
What do you have to offer besides personal attacks and whacked logic?Well I still don't see a personal attack (other than the one about my "whacked logic"), but damned if i'll speak "so loudly" here again...

-out

InkEd
November 13, 2010, 09:32 AM
You need to call and email them non-stop until you get your rifle.

There are about a dozen other people on here that have Sig556 rifles and like them. Interent forums are full of people whining about stuff. The people with the good ones are too busy enjoying them. I have one and think it's a nice rifle. The treatment you've received by their customer service is horrible! Squeeky wheel gets the grease. Be a PITA until you get your rifle back. Be on them like white on rice. You shouldn't have to do all that to get what you're promised BUT it looks like you have no other option. I truly wish you the best of luck on this situation.

1858
November 13, 2010, 02:55 PM
The irony to me is so many of you defend a company (any company Sig S&W Colt etc.) while you give money to various organizations that allow them to stay in business.

So based on your admittedly unhappy experience with SIG, we should all charge over the cliff like a bunch of lemmings to show our solidarity?! Here's a news flash for you, many of us have no reason to feel the way you do. I have eight SIG pistols and have been a happy SIG owner for twenty years. I've read all the internet crap about how SIG isn't what it used to be ... blah, blah, blah ... but I just get on with my actual life and shoot, enjoy, and shoot some more without a single problem to report. I have SIGs from just about every phase of SIG production i.e. from the very early '90s to 2010 models and guess what ... no need for CS, nothing broken, no issues, no problems, just more of the same good ol' SIG reliability, accuracy and quality. YMMV ... obviously!!

:)

XD 45 gunner
November 14, 2010, 12:40 AM
1858..... you just shoot your weapons and be happy. It seems that the pistols are great. Averageman doesn't have his weapon to shoot though. He just paid his money and doesn't have a weapon to shoot. If I had 900 Sigs and 1 didn't work, I would still have an issue with it. this was not a cheap weapon. I am sure that many of you have been somewhere in your life where you depended on a weapon. Weapons quality is paramount with me. You just want something that is going to work everytime you squeeze one out.

Agent Man
November 17, 2010, 10:11 AM
Glad to read I am not alone with SIG556 zeroing issues.:( Poor barrel alignment makes sense, and is what I also thought.

My SIG 556 ER was purchased in late 2008. Rifle sat in closet until Sig came out with new diopter sights. Took it to the range in June '10. It will not zero. Elevation is ok but front sight is all the way left and rear sight is all the way right and still the groups are 3" to the left - @ 25meters(82feet). There is no more windage adjustment remaining in the sights. Sights were installed correctly. Groups are ok but they can't be brought to the center. I believe this is one of the all too commonly produced SIG556 "lemons". Not looking forward to sending it back to the factory. But fortunately I have several functional rifles(Colt,FN) to choose from for range use as I await the long delay in getting the rifle serviced. Then I may sell it.

XD 45 gunner
November 18, 2010, 09:54 PM
Agent Man don't be a lemming!

Averageman: Any luck on this subject?

Averageman
November 20, 2010, 09:16 AM
1858 said this
So based on your admittedly unhappy experience with SIG, we should all charge over the cliff like a bunch of lemmings to show our solidarity?!
In responce to this..
The irony to me is so many of you defend a company (any company Sig S&W Colt etc.) while you give money to various organizations that allow them to stay in business.
How Lemmings got in to this I will never know, but...Lemmings it is.
Obviously all companies turn out lemons. The point I am trying to make is HOLD THEM ALL ACCOUNTABLE. To Not hold them accountable and allow yourself to be treated badly as you remain loyal is essentially running lemming like off a cliff.
1858,..It in my opinion would be more lemming like to accept the herd mentality of Quality Control mediocrity, lacidasical machining and tolerances that may be even dangerous and not tell any manufacturer they are wrong and/or ever make a complaint about it. After all Lemmings don't complain, the just run off the cliff.
We make them,(The Manufacturers) without customers who purchase, without organizations like GOA and the NRA protecting the right to produce arms how would they stay in business?
Sig will eventually make it right, I have been noticed, here and on other boards making this complaint, it isn't good for business.
I have been called by someone rather high up in Sig wanting to make it right and they have offered me another rifle, but once again..it aint here yet.
When it is I will be sure and post it here after I take it out to the range and test fire it. If its another lemming,...ummm LEMON, I will let you know; but if it is a great gun I will let you know too!
Thanks
A/M

racine
November 20, 2010, 12:31 PM
That 556 was supposed to address Americans answer to the want for 550s. Too bad the 556s only give you 2-3MOA, mediocre sights in a heavy 223. I didn't want to pay $1400 for that. I only hope they fix that and do the 516 correctly!

Averageman
November 21, 2010, 10:02 AM
Agentman,..send it in to get fixed. It is a pain in the neck, but it is the only way Sig will fix the issues they are having with production.
Racine, the $1400 is no where near the original MSRP, I believe it was near 2K originally.
It could be a fine gun, the 556 has a lot of good things about it, but the Quality Control needs to be brought up to the Sig Europe standards or they will ruin the entire reputation of the company.
The sights, though they have the Sig name on them are not a Sig product, they are produced by another company for Sig and they truely are poor at best.
As far as the 516, I haven't heard anything good or bad yet about them.

Averageman
November 28, 2010, 04:31 PM
Still..... NO RIFLE, no word it more than a week.

Averageman
December 11, 2010, 06:44 PM
Still No Rifle

sappyg
December 11, 2010, 08:17 PM
averageman, i was just wondering about your rifle just yesterday. has there been no communication with Sig in the past 3-4 weeks?

Averageman
December 12, 2010, 11:09 AM
Actually there has been communication. I speak to them on a weekly basis.
I have spoken to one of the V.P's about the issue, he is working with me and is genuinely interested in making this right. Unfortunatly he can be difficult for me to catch on the phone.
I can understand he controls what he controls and has essentially limited control over some things within Sig. He is trying to get me a rifle and has offered to throw in a scope on the deal.
I like the Sig, it is a great weapon, the design is well thought out and other than the issues I have with mine which go back to Q/C I think it could be the standard for gas operated rifles.
It's just a sad thing it is taking this long and isnt resolved, I admit; some of it is my fault. At one point in this debacle I was offerd a full refund. I opted to go with a new rifle they are working on instead.

Flatbush Harry
December 12, 2010, 12:09 PM
I'm continually impressed by the QC and CS issues that many here seem to suffer. In the last 40 years that I have been shooting, buying, trading and selling firearms, I have had two QC issues: a SAI 1911A1 whose feed ramp needed polishing and a Uberti Cattleman whose ejector rod was bent. The former I had throated ($15) and had it back and in use in 2 days, the latter, my dealer got a new rod and his gunsmith had it installed that day, problem solved in 1 week ($0). Frankly, I'm not sure that some numbnuts didn't bend it with trying to be Wyatt Earp in the gunstore.

Now I won't dispute that other peeps have issues but I'm surprised by the frequency and severity of them. In my case, I've had 2 minor defects in more than 60 guns in 40 years, both of which were resolved painlessly in less than a week.

FH

allfouledup
December 12, 2010, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the warning Averageman. I've had my eye on the Sig556's after seeing "blowout" prices on GunBroker. If I'd been treated like that after plunking down $1K+, I'd have a head gasket "blowout" over the phone with those guys! With your persistence, that V.P. should just grab a 556 off the shelf in the shipping dept and take it to the range. If it shoots as poorly as yours, he should call and ask "where do I send the check?" And then advise the boss to halt production for a complete QC audit. Period!

Ignition Override
December 12, 2010, 06:19 PM
An LEO who works in or near Shelby County was in a Cordova/Memphis gun shop a year ago.

He told me that his department was getting rid of their Sig 5.56 rifles, and the common problem was somewhere in the action.
He did not state whether it was a production or maintenance issue etc.

IdahoLT1
December 13, 2010, 02:39 AM
Fact is: nearly all production rifles decline in price after being on the market for a while. This is especially true of highly anticipated new models, particularly with "tactical" rifles/carbines. SIG has simply moved the price-point to meet demand.



I paid $550 for my CX4 Storm when they first came out(00065x serial number). Now, you'd be hard pressed to find one in this area for $650NIB.

amprecon
December 13, 2010, 07:38 PM
Why anyone would spend even a fraction of that amount on a .22 caliber rilfe is beyond me. Dress it up anyway you want, at the end of the day, it's still a .22 caliber rifle.

rscalzo
December 13, 2010, 07:52 PM
i've found sigs of any make

The troll gone?

Cap'n Ahab
December 13, 2010, 10:28 PM
Why anyone would spend even a fraction of that amount on a .22 caliber rilfe is beyond me. Dress it up anyway you want, at the end of the day, it's still a .22 caliber rifle.
Maybe, but there is a difference between .22 short and .223 WSSM, yes?

Afy
December 14, 2010, 09:11 AM
I guess the Sig's we get here in Europe are a different species.

Tommygunn
December 14, 2010, 11:12 AM
I guess the Sig's we get here in Europe are a different species.

Yes. Our Sig 556s have a different lower and accepts AR magazines.
Despite the problems some people here have with the Sig I have a Sig 556 Patrol and I like it a lot. The only problem I have is with the >>>American<<< Sig diopter rear sight. This will be altered as soon as I am able to obtain an optical sight (probably an Eotech).

Averageman
December 15, 2010, 07:03 PM
Yes the Sig's in Europe are different and apparently have much tighter quality control along with better/different recivers.
Still no rifle anyone want a great deal on some 556 magazines and ammo pouches?

IdahoLT1
December 15, 2010, 07:55 PM
Still no rifle anyone want a great deal on some 556 magazines and ammo pouches?

Manufacturer, specs and prices?

XD 45 gunner
December 15, 2010, 08:15 PM
This just does not make any sense. You have been wronged, no other way to put it. I always liked the Sig 1911's but I am sure that SA makes them just as good or maybe better. I KNOW their customer service is better. :cuss::banghead:

I would go for the money back if it is possible. Maybe they can't find one that is good in the factory. It is not a far stretch that they may have some major problems with their weapons.

Averageman
December 16, 2010, 06:18 PM
Still No Rifle

bushwacker_hock
January 11, 2011, 05:55 PM
I bought one myself about 2 months ago but luckily haven't had any problems with mine. not having any trouble with accuracy etc. Hope nothing comes up though. service sound horrible.

sappyg
January 11, 2011, 10:52 PM
mkay averageman,
it's been another month now. any news on the sig?

Hanzo581
January 11, 2011, 11:06 PM
Finally took mine out to the range this past weekend, and I absolutely love it, I honestly cannot understand the hate on the 556, especially when they can be had under $1000 now.

happygeek
January 11, 2011, 11:26 PM
I've been happy with mine and it cycles the cheaper Wolf 5.56 just fine. Then again I got a AK 74 from Century that functioned fine and didn't have a front sight that was so canted that it couldn't be zeroed so maybe I'm just lucky so far.

oasis618
January 12, 2011, 08:01 PM
Averageman... what explanation have they given you as to why then can't just send you a new one? Did their factory and all of their tooling explode? Did they quit making this model? Did they all end up at the bottom of a lake as a result of a tragic boating accident?

76shuvlinoff
January 16, 2011, 12:51 PM
I see the Sig 556 for under $1000 at Buds with free shipping but this thread has me looking elsewhere for a 223/5.56 fix.

Averageman
January 17, 2011, 11:50 AM
The Sig SWAT Patrol rifle I bought back in June was defective.
I worked with this rifle twice at the range before I was certain it was defective, I returned the rifle to Sig two weeks from purchase. The issue was it wouldn't zero and no amount of effort on my part would make it better.
I returned the rifle to Sig two weeks from purchase. I then waited two more weeks for a replacement and called the Sig Customer Service line. I was a bit upset that nothing had been done and I was asked to call back the next day.
When I called the next day I was told my rifle had an issue, the rifle was determined to have a problem with the barrel to reciever fit. I at that time asked for an immeadiate replacement and was told it would be in my hands in two weeks.
This return rifle didnt appear and more calls to Sig were met with such excuses as "We don't have an exact replacement for your Rifle, You'll have to wait." I can assure you as the weeks turned in to months this got very old and I began posting here and on the Sig 556 board warning others of my experiance.
I then having made every effort with Sig contacted the Sporting goods store I purchased the rifle at and they contacted Sig.
I got a call from a Mr. Scott within two hours of contacting Academy Sporting goods and he immeadiatly appologised for what I had went through and we discussed and arrangement to fix the problem. At this point it was November and I was sick and tired of the whole situation and wanted my money back. At that point in the conversation Mr. Scott mentioned the Sig Swat Patrol in 7.62X39 that they were about to release and I told him I would rather have that than my money back and was willing to wait.
I was given a date of 15 December for my rifle to be in my hands. It is now well in to January and my rifle has finally shipped as of Friday January 14th.
I cannot tell you the unending frustraion I have went through to get to this point. I can only assure you that I am hesitant on any further purchases with Sig/Sauer.
I will give this rifle a fair try and give all of you a range assessment of it.
Thank You all for your support here.
A/M

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