Need my first AR-15 advice!


PDA






JackTheRipper
November 4, 2010, 02:18 AM
I've been browsing the forums for awhile now and have decided on a few rifles and I wanted to see yalls opinion on them...

I do like the colt 6920 and 6940...

I like some of the bushmasters

and sig sauer and ruger....

I rather stick with very high quality brands though...

this will be my first ar-15 and something for protection and just in case the shi* hits the fan...

plus I need something very fun to shoot and something else to reload :-)...

thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "Need my first AR-15 advice!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Justin
November 4, 2010, 02:43 AM
Well, what do you specifically want to do with the rifle?

Saying it's for "fun" or "SHTF" doesn't really tell us very much. What's fun to me may not be fun to you and vice-versa.

What sort of shooting do you do now that you would like to use an AR15 for?
What sort of shooting would you like to do that you think an AR might be a good fit for?

And finally, the odds of using a rifle in a so-called "SHTF" scenario are so vanishingly small that it's really not even worth including as a reason to get a gun.

If you're looking for a home defense type gun, generally an ar with a 16 inch barrel and either iron sights or some sort of non-magnified optic is the way to go.

Zombiphobia
November 4, 2010, 02:57 AM
what Justin said.

My suggestion for a good all-purpose AR-15 would be a DPMS Mini-SASS in 5.56, at least it's what I would pick.

Good for hunting small-medium sized game, target shooting, and with a callapsible stock and red-dot scope it'll make a fine tactical weapon as well and can engage targets out to 600 meters with a good scope, plus they have flip-up iron sights for engagements from 50-300 meters.

They come with accessory rails too.

rskent
November 4, 2010, 06:16 AM
If I was looking for my first AR, I would have to take a hard look at a Colt MT6400R. I’m sure there are probably better choices out there. And I’m sure the AR experts will let you know what they are. But colt makes a good solid rifle/carbine. You could do a lot worse.
Having said that, my first AR was a Bushmaster M forgery. It was a great carbine. It has since morphed into pretty much a full on NRA highpower service rifle.
You gotta love ARs.
Steve

roach4047
November 4, 2010, 07:00 AM
I'm no expert but I do like my Wilson Combat UT-15 very much though it's probably a bit more expensive than a lot of others that are probably just as nice. I don't know enough about the various brands and how they size up to know what's worth having and what's not so I tend excercise a bit of overkill when it comes to making decisions along these lines. I knew I wouldn't go wrong with anything from Wilson Combat even if I may have paid a premium price for it. I'd rather over pay than under buy so that I ensure myself a quality product.

Roach

jsimmons
November 4, 2010, 07:13 AM
Check out Spike's, Bravo Company, and Del-Ton.

Colt is way more expensive than they need to be.

Whatever brand you get, get a rifle with a mid-length gas system and a full-auto BCG, and a free-floated hand guard.

I have two AR-15s - a Smith&Wesson M&P15MOE, and a rifle I built from scratch. The S&W is a fine gun, but I shoot my scratch-built more.

crossrhodes
November 4, 2010, 08:10 AM
This was a pleasure to read. I'm impressed it didn't turn out to be a flavor of the month club bashing contest. Any of the rifles mentioned would be fine. I have a Colt, three DPMS's and two Bushy's and the all work fine and have LOTS of rounds down the tube. I have one particular rifle that has over 5000 rounds of Wolf ammo down the tube and hasn't blown up or spit out extractors like all the experts mention. Good advice on getting a full auto BCG the extra weight helps with reliability.

Have fun and let us know what you get.

madcratebuilder
November 4, 2010, 08:27 AM
Choose a rifle that has the features you want. The original commercial AR15 was by Colt, the rest are clones. Any brand well do OK for most shooters, I wouldn't get to caught up in the "chart". I have a pair of Bushmasters that are fine rifles. If I buy another it well be a ArmaLite or Noveske.

G27RR
November 4, 2010, 09:30 AM
One of the sweet spots in terms of value vs price right now would seem to me to be the S&W lineup. I have an MOE and an ORC model and they are well built and have most of the desireable features on "the chart." If you want extremely good build quality and extremely good accuracy and want to pay twice as much, look at the LaRue OBR 556... mine is simply fantastic.

sansone
November 4, 2010, 09:42 AM
I agree with crossrhods.. these questions often become a "mine is better than yours" thread. Glad to see not happening here. Years ago some companies were selling cast receivers that were much less than milspec. Today you are pretty safe buying new milspec stuff. Brand is less important than it used to be with AR's.. The quality of the barrel will determine how well it shoots beyond 100yds so place attention there

Sky
November 4, 2010, 10:19 AM
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

Pretty good comparison of ARs

TonyAngel
November 4, 2010, 10:59 AM
Six of one, half a dozen of the other, it's all practically the same as long as you stay with a quality manufacturer. Don't forget abount Daniel Defense, Spike's, LMT, etc.

W.E.G.
November 4, 2010, 11:11 AM
Decide what features you want on the gun.

Buy a gun that has those features from a reputable manufacturer.

AR's are NOT hard to build right.
Dozens of builders are doing it.

Once you get to about the $900 mark, you start to pay a LOT more for very little improvement.
Before you spend a LOT of money for that little bit, ask yourself whether you need it.

HGUNHNTR
November 4, 2010, 11:18 AM
Don't listen to the folks that say "if you buy brand xyz you are paying for the name", in fact you are typically paying for the quality represented in the brand. You don't build solid brand reputation by producing products low on value.
Colt, Spikes, LMT, BCM, DD are all solid choices with a price that falls in the middle to low middle of the price spectrum. Don't get too hung up on the brand as long as you select a quality manufacturer, find a rifle in the configuration that best fits your intended purpose and enjoy.

WNC Seabee
November 4, 2010, 11:24 AM
How about building one yourself?

Order up a stripped lower with the logo/brand of your choice. Get a lower parts kit and put it together. I really enjoyed it and get loads of satisfaction out of shooting a rifle that I put together. AR's really are like Legos, it doesn't take a lot of know-how to put them together. And the $$ you save (~$200 or more) can be put towards an optic or ammo.

C-grunt
November 4, 2010, 12:04 PM
If home defense is its primary function I would go with a battle ready gun.

Colt, Daniel Defense (DD), Bravo Company Machine (BCM), Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT), Noveske, and Knights Armament Corp (KAC).

Colt 6920 (the gold standard) is around 1200 bucks. Colt 6520 can be had for around 900-1000. Daniel Defense base models are right at 1k. BCM can be had for under 1K. LMT rifles are around 1200 for base model.

The 6940 is a good rifle but the monolithic upper really hinders your ability to modify the rifle. Plus its a carbine length handguard and if you find that you want to hold the forend out further, you cant with that.

Noveske is very nice but you pay more for their barrels. Also come with Troy sights and a Vltor stock. They start around 1500 but give a mil/leo discount.

KAC rifles are very expensive but have lots and lots of really good upgrades.

Spikes I have heard good things about but Im still not certain on them yet. Smith and Wesson rifles are good as well.

Bushmasters have some cutting corners issues, ie... wrong front sight base for flat tops and usually poor staking of the gas key are the big ones. They can be made into serviceable fighting rifle with a little work. My duty gun is a Bushy and its broken on me three times. Fires and cycles reliably though.

Guns and more
November 4, 2010, 12:09 PM
When I was shopping, I came across this site. I learned more from this than anywhere else.
It's not super technical, but hits the why's and how's.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

I found sites like AR-15.com too technical for the first timer.

I ended up with a Colt 6920, he bought a CMMG, but I knew why I bought what I did.

NCGunDude
November 4, 2010, 04:11 PM
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

Pretty good comparison of ARs
+1, beat me to it!

JackTheRipper
November 4, 2010, 06:37 PM
I would never rule out a "shtf" scenario... God forbid something like that ever happening, but it is a real reason I'd like to get the rifle...

I will mainly use it for target practicing and home defense...

After having read some more articles and those links (thanks!)

I think I'm leaning towards the Bushmaster E2S A3...


thanks!

TonyAngel
November 4, 2010, 07:30 PM
I hear a lot of people wanting to get an AR and talking home defense. It seems to me that home defense means that it's going on within the confines of your home. In this situation where you are likely to be addressing issues in the middle of the night and while groggy, it seems to me that a good .357 revolver near the bed and a Remington 870 not too much farther away would have the HD thing covered.

Quentin
November 4, 2010, 08:01 PM
I agree with TonyAngel that a quality handgun makes more sense for home defense, or possibly a short shotgun. The AR is a fine choice for many other uses but there are legal issues to worry about when you think about defending yourself in your front yard. Now on a ranch warding off a predator that's a different story.

JackTheRipper
November 4, 2010, 08:32 PM
I'd rather reload .223 than pistol ammo (I am new to reloading and I'm in love with it)...

a pistol just doesn't seem like it would be fun to go to the range and shoot far off targets with... Besides, they scare the hell out of me! My mom has a 9mm and she wanted me to change her ammo for her yesterday actually, and just handling the dang thing made me very nervous (weird I know, I have just been brought up around and hunted with rifles and shotguns my whole life)...

thanks for the idea though...

Quentin
November 4, 2010, 08:42 PM
If you have a handgun in the house, learn how to use it NOW! Then you won't be afraid of it - then teach her how to maintain and use it too!

C-grunt
November 4, 2010, 10:47 PM
I agree with TonyAngel that a quality handgun makes more sense for home defense, or possibly a short shotgun. The AR is a fine choice for many other uses but there are legal issues to worry about when you think about defending yourself in your front yard. Now on a ranch warding off a predator that's a different story.
A good carbine has many goos atributes that make it a better home defense weapon compared to a handgun.

1. Easier to make accurate shots with a long gun
2. Way more powerful
3. Easy to manipulate a light on the weapon at the ready
4. A good hollow point or soft point has LESS penetration through building material if you miss.
5. Easier and faster follow up shots if needed.
6. Will penetrate body armor if the bad guys have it on.

Im not saying that a handgun is a bad choice and you always have to evaluate your own situation, skill and experience to find what works best for you.

FlyinBryan
November 5, 2010, 12:44 AM
4. A good hollow point or soft point has LESS penetration through building material if you miss.

i would consider this to be advantage-handgun.

would i rather defend myself with a carbine? definitely, but most likely the arm i would have available in the middle of the night scenario would be my .45 (because my carbine wont fit in my matress holster)

the old saying "you use your pistol to get to your rifle" ,,,,, good stuff

TonyAngel
November 5, 2010, 01:22 AM
You also have to consider that LEO and military that use ARs in close quarters aren't alone. They train and act as a group. In the dead of night when someone may be in your home and you're going down a three foot wide hallway, by yourself, with a 90* turn coming up, having two feet of protrusion sticking out in front of you gives the bad guy a lot to grab on to. This is the point where he could take it away from you and kill you with it. Home defense isn't like war. In home defense, it's not a bad idea to have a free hand to defend yourself with or to avert an attack while you employ your fire arm. When something like that happens, it happens FAST. It's hard to throw your off hand up to back someone off when you have both hands holding on to a rifle. If you come across a guy that has 100lbs on you and he's too close to shoot with a rifle, you're probably gonna lose.

Zombiphobia
November 5, 2010, 02:26 AM
I just read where someone posted the original commercial AR15 being by Colt and the rest being copies.. LOL. Being a "copy" doesn't make it of lesser quality, and most of them are not. The FN Herstal M16, compared to a Colt M16, is more accurate, IME.

Besides, many other companies sell AR's which are MADE for the end user already prepared for more versatile use than Colt's, and are actually designed by experienced warriors.

It doesn't really matter a whole lot though. The only real different between AR's is in the receivers and moving parts and the barrel. Everything else can be easily changed out.

C-grunt
November 5, 2010, 10:27 PM
You also have to consider that LEO and military that use ARs in close quarters aren't alone. They train and act as a group. In the dead of night when someone may be in your home and you're going down a three foot wide hallway, by yourself, with a 90* turn coming up, having two feet of protrusion sticking out in front of you gives the bad guy a lot to grab on to. This is the point where he could take it away from you and kill you with it. Home defense isn't like war. In home defense, it's not a bad idea to have a free hand to defend yourself with or to avert an attack while you employ your fire arm. When something like that happens, it happens FAST. It's hard to throw your off hand up to back someone off when you have both hands holding on to a rifle. If you come across a guy that has 100lbs on you and he's too close to shoot with a rifle, you're probably gonna lose.
A good sling is a good idea for a HD carbine. We practice weapon retention in my dept and a big step back and down pretty much always brings the muzzle in line with the guy grabbing your rifle.

buzzg
November 6, 2010, 10:32 AM
I'm curious why no one mentioned Rock River Arms. (Or did I miss it?) I have two of them, one military style and the other a bull barrel varmint gun. Impeccable performance/reliability and they are very well made and reasonably priced, particularly vs. Colt or Noveske. If you get a price quote from Noveske, be sure you're sitting down.
As for in home defense I rely on my Mossberg 500 with a nice mix of 00 and Slug. This will stop any threat, though inside the home collateral dry wall damage may be greater than with a rifle or pistol.

1911WB
November 6, 2010, 10:47 AM
After having a couple of Colt AR's over the years- a shorty SP1 and an HBAR, I decided I wanted something new and different. My dealer got in a Stag and a Spikes Tactical in the M4 configuration. I chose the Stag because the trigger crispness and overall fit impressed me a bit more; but, I think either would make a fine choice. I also got a complete Spikes lower to make a dedicated .22LR AR-15 later. Good luck with your choice. :) WB

kwelz
November 6, 2010, 11:08 AM
I'm curious why no one mentioned Rock River Arms.

Because they are overpriced, and cut way to many corners. I would never recommend a RRA to a person looking for a defensive carbine.

buzzg
November 6, 2010, 12:59 PM
Really, ARIZZA? Consider the following.
Noveske - $2200 and up
DPMS - $900 and up.
Rock River - $675 and up
As far as workmanship goes if you have a DPMS notice the light gap between the upper and lower. You won't find that on the RR or the Noveske. My RR AR's have had over 3500 rounds run through them, both .223 and 5.56 NATO with no malfunctions or broken parts. I consider Noveske the top of the line and if I could afford one without a divorce I'd get one. I consider DPMS the bottom of the line base on workmanship/machining tolerances alone.

briang2ad
November 6, 2010, 06:12 PM
No matter what you do, find the "Chart" and bone up on it. Left is good.

Lower tier on the chart - RRA, DPMS, etc.

Mid Tier - S&W (but high quality)

High Tier - DD, Colt, BCM, Noveske, and I should mention SPIKES.

High Tier means that they meet Milspec either close or 100%. Milspec does mean something - better components and features on the RIFLE itself.

Spikes - $800 for a Milspec rifle.

DD can be had for less than $1000 and WITH a Cold Hammer Forged barrel.

The latter two would be very good for starters.

Smith makes a good rifle, but a bit less in the milspec category.

Spec ops Grunt
November 6, 2010, 07:14 PM
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cat=161

JW2
November 6, 2010, 07:17 PM
My 2 cents are a Daniel defense upper and either assemble or buy your lower. You should be able to get this setup for around 750 or so if you do your shopping...

Jaybird78
November 6, 2010, 08:15 PM
I drank some BCM koolaid and it is good. :D:D:D

Quentin
November 6, 2010, 08:37 PM
buzzg, look at BCM... You can get one for $900, not much more than a RRA equipped similarly. Like Jaybird said, their koolaid is good! :D

Not knocking your RRA but today you can get a milspec AR steal with BCM.

12131
November 6, 2010, 10:07 PM
By HGUNHNTR:
Don't listen to the folks that say "if you buy brand xyz you are paying for the name", in fact you are typically paying for the quality represented in the brand.
It's generally true, if you're talking complete rifles, but not so, if you're talking lower receiver only. For example, there's nothing a $199 Noveske lower can do that a $90 Spike's Tactical lower cannot do.

HGUNHNTR
November 7, 2010, 07:43 PM
^ I agree, there are definitley exceptions to the rule. Just be wary of folks that like to bash high end firearms because they have a personal bias stemming from the fact they can't afford them.

Spec ops Grunt
November 7, 2010, 09:22 PM
The inverse of that is true also, people like to bash low end firearms as being beneath them.

bri
November 7, 2010, 09:37 PM
Ignore brand names, do some research and see what you come up with. In my instance and price range, the decision came down to BCM and Spikes. I went with Spikes because they were offering a 10% discount at the time.

jsimmons
November 8, 2010, 10:49 AM
A good carbine has many good atributes that make it a better home defense weapon compared to a handgun.

1. Easier to make accurate shots with a long gun
2. Way more powerful
3. Easy to manipulate a light on the weapon at the ready
4. A good hollow point or soft point has LESS penetration through building material if you miss.
5. Easier and faster follow up shots if needed.
6. Will penetrate body armor if the bad guys have it on.

Im not saying that a handgun is a bad choice and you always have to evaluate your own situation, skill and experience to find what works best for you.

I disagree. Most home-defense situations occur at no more than 15 yards, and more likely closer than 7 yards. In all actuality a shotgun is the best home defense weapon, followed by a pistol, and then a rifle. You don't necessarily want a high-powered weapon because if the bullet continues on its path (once it's passed or penetrated the bad guy), and you hit someone else, you're liable. A shotgun won't go past a wall (or if it does, it won't go far), and a pistol is easier to wield in tight quarters.

Depending on where you live, you may or may not be legally allowed to pursue a perp off your property, so a long range shot isn't in the cards for you. Even if it was, if the guy is runnig away, there's no real point in pursuing (or shooting) him. That's a job for the cops.

Considering all that, if all you have is a carbine, it's "better than a stick", that's for dang sure. :)

okiewita40
November 8, 2010, 10:51 AM
Please do not discount some of the smaller guys out there either. such as
ar15 performance and bison armory. Great reps on some other sites and they are either semi custom or custom weapons. Just all depends on what you want or can afford. Most all the brands mentioned before are about as good as the next. Some may have a better fit and finish than the others.

I say just go and handle some of them and see what you like or don't like about them with some hands on feel.

MrOldLude
November 8, 2010, 12:40 PM
No matter what you do, find the "Chart" and bone up on it. Left is good.
Ignore "the chart" as well. It weights all selections and options equally (when they're anything but), and doesn't really cover all circumstances for someone buying assembled rifles.

BushyGuy
November 8, 2010, 12:47 PM
Bushmaster are great rifles, i have a XM15E2S , i havent had any issues with it and i have 2K rounds thru it- i staked my BCG a little better and its golden.

Ruger SR556 are good also they can run very dirty like an AK and shoot way better.

Stag is starting to make great rifles for the price , IF i can afford another AR it would be a Stag.

kwelz
November 8, 2010, 04:03 PM
Ignore "the chart" as well. It weights all selections and options equally (when they're anything but), and doesn't really cover all circumstances for someone buying assembled rifles.

I don't think you understand the reasoning behind Rob's Chart.

The chart isn't for casual shooters, it isn't for varmint hunters, and it isn't for people just wanting a range toy. Rob put together the chat for people looking for equipment that came close to or exceeded the requirements set forth for the M4 Carbine.

From the OPs description of what he wants the gun for it seems like looking at the chart and understanding what the parts mean would be very beneficial to him.

It shows why guns like Bushmaster, DPMS, OLY, and others are not a good choice for some people. More importantly it doesn't "weigh" anything. It only provides data.

HGUNHNTR
November 8, 2010, 05:03 PM
The inverse of that is true also, people like to bash low end firearms as being beneath them

Don't confuse this for having a need or want for quality, and then choosing it. I need a reliable, accurate handgun for hunting. I'm not about to buy a Hi-point, and it isn't because I think they are "beneath me", it is because they don't provide the features and quality that I require in a hunting handgun.

FlyinBryan
November 8, 2010, 07:27 PM
azizza writes:
It shows why guns like Bushmaster, DPMS, OLY, and others are not a good choice for some people. More importantly it doesn't "weigh" anything. It only provides data.

if its ok i would respectfully suggest that it isnt accurate 100% of the time (although i think it is accurate more often than not)

as an example i have 2 samples of bushmaster carbines that are not built as the chart would suggest. (it should be noted that these rifles were for some reason unknown to me, built during the awb, but not in compliance, as if possibly built for LE)

they have properly staked gas keys (i have pics if anyone would like to see them, and will not take a request to see them as a challenge of my opinion, lol) they have black extractor inserts, they have the shrouded firing pin bolt carriers (wasnt that one of the things that many bushmasters have lacked?)

i have no answer for why mine seem to be different than the reports i hear, unless it is because mine are a2 hbar models, 16" barrels

please do not take as disrespect or a challenge. just the way mine are.

i have a friend that has the bushmaster orc. i should have a good look at his and see if its the same

(but i have a strong feeling it is not the same as mine after reading all the reports)

EDIT: i have also noticed that both mine have staked castle nuts, and the extractor spring has 5 coils. (actually, its not the castly nut that has been deformed, but metal from an adjacent piece has been rolled into one of the notches of the castlenut, i assume this is "staking the castlenut?)

chineseboxer
November 9, 2010, 03:50 AM
I decided on a Stag and I havene't looked back yet. Absolutly everything I could have ask for in reliability and quality. Other than that I would also consider Rock River and S&W. No need to spend ons of cash if you just want a good solid dependable AR. The top tier are fantastic Rifles, but you really need to ask yourself what you need from it.

kwelz
November 9, 2010, 09:41 AM
if its ok i would respectfully suggest that it isnt accurate 100% of the time (although i think it is accurate more often than not)

as an example i have 2 samples of bushmaster carbines that are not built as the chart would suggest. (it should be noted that these rifles were for some reason unknown to me, built during the awb, but not in compliance, as if possibly built for LE)

they have properly staked gas keys (i have pics if anyone would like to see them, and will not take a request to see them as a challenge of my opinion, lol) they have black extractor inserts, they have the shrouded firing pin bolt carriers (wasnt that one of the things that many bushmasters have lacked?)

i have no answer for why mine seem to be different than the reports i hear, unless it is because mine are a2 hbar models, 16" barrels

please do not take as disrespect or a challenge. just the way mine are.

i have a friend that has the bushmaster orc. i should have a good look at his and see if its the same

(but i have a strong feeling it is not the same as mine after reading all the reports)

EDIT: i have also noticed that both mine have staked castle nuts, and the extractor spring has 5 coils. (actually, its not the castly nut that has been deformed, but metal from an adjacent piece has been rolled into one of the notches of the castlenut, i assume this is "staking the castlenut?)


I do not disagree.
"The Chart" or indeed any system that gives information like this can not be accurate 100% of the time when it comes to human intervention. Can a BM have properly staked keys? Sure it can. Can a Colt have keys that got missed completely? Of course!

In cases like that all you can do is play the averages. History has shown us that Colt has better QC and doesn't cut corners. Of course having a government inspector sitting in the factory doesn't hurt! If their quality slips (Which is very possible if they lose the M4 Contract) then I would stop recommending them.

And of course the QC factor doesn't address things like lack of M4 Feed ramps, etc. But that is another topic for another time.

In conclusion, the Cart can be very polarizing by people who don't understand it. And that includes people who hate it and people who love it. There are those who think a far left carbine will always work and a far right carbine will always fail. This is not the case, it just shows you who is closer to the TDP and where corners may be cut by others.

And others think that it is made to apply to all AR15 purchases. While some items remain important regardless of configuration, others do not. Like all things in life it requires context.

In the end it is a tool, just like the guns themselves.

ETA: It is also worth mentioning that some things on the chart are not worded the way I would have done it. Such as the extractor spring insert. The color of the insert really doesn't matter. It is supposed to represent the type of spring that is used. But of course a manufacturer that doesn't follow the rules could use the correct insert with the wrong spring. In other cases I don't feel that things are described well enough. For instance the reason Taper pins should be used, and why parking under the FSB is important. There have been instances showing why both these items are important. But people often think it is just cosmetic.

FlyinBryan
November 9, 2010, 12:05 PM
And of course the QC factor doesn't address things like lack of M4 Feed ramps
good point. mine does not have them, at least not cut into the receiver.

both of ours do have the taper pins, but they do not have parkerizing under the front sight bases.

it is worth noting that these did NOT have double sheilded handgaurds. and actually one of the barrels was slightly canted, so it also cant be said that they were perfect either. (although they have ran perfect to date, knock on wood)

i suppose i got lucky because i didnt go out looking for these things, lol, in fact, i didnt go pick them out at all!!!! i gave my son 2000 bux and told him to go and pick us out a couple of rifles and some goodies for them.

i suppose the kid did better than we could have even known at the time.

C-grunt
November 9, 2010, 02:55 PM
Really, ARIZZA? Consider the following.
Noveske - $2200 and upDPMS - $900 and up.
Rock River - $675 and up
As far as workmanship goes if you have a DPMS notice the light gap between the upper and lower. You won't find that on the RR or the Noveske. My RR AR's have had over 3500 rounds run through them, both .223 and 5.56 NATO with no malfunctions or broken parts. I consider Noveske the top of the line and if I could afford one without a divorce I'd get one. I consider DPMS the bottom of the line base on workmanship/machining tolerances alone.

Here is what I bought from Noveske. Thats a good bit cheaper than 2200 bucks. It was expensive, but like I said you pay for the barrel. Plus you get a nice stock, Troy sights and a nice grip.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lrb-556&cat=138&page=1&search=&since=&status=

C-grunt
November 9, 2010, 03:00 PM
I disagree. Most home-defense situations occur at no more than 15 yards, and more likely closer than 7 yards. In all actuality a shotgun is the best home defense weapon, followed by a pistol, and then a rifle. You don't necessarily want a high-powered weapon because if the bullet continues on its path (once it's passed or penetrated the bad guy), and you hit someone else, you're liable. A shotgun won't go past a wall (or if it does, it won't go far), and a pistol is easier to wield in tight quarters.

Depending on where you live, you may or may not be legally allowed to pursue a perp off your property, so a long range shot isn't in the cards for you. Even if it was, if the guy is runnig away, there's no real point in pursuing (or shooting) him. That's a job for the cops.

Considering all that, if all you have is a carbine, it's "better than a stick", that's for dang sure. :)
Hollow point .223/5.56 has less chance of over penetration when compared to handguns or shotguns. Thats one of the reasons why PDs all over the country are switching to them.

Buck shot will go through several interior walls. Handguns are low powered and are harder to make hits with when compared to shotguns or rifles. I dont trust a handgun to effectively stop a bad guy immediately inside my house. From my experience most bad guys who are shot with a handgun are very mobile afterwards even if they die a short time later. Thats not the performance I want when a crack head with a knife is in my hallway next to my daughter's bedroom.

FlyinBryan
November 9, 2010, 03:31 PM
what kind of accuracy could be expected from that noveske, if one were inclined to try to handload and wring the tightest possible groups out of it?

C-grunt
November 9, 2010, 03:56 PM
I have read the standard barrels are good for about 3/4 - 1 moa while the staniless are good for about 1/2 moa.

I have never really done any real group shooting with it. Closest I did was using a 3 power ACOG, Hornady 75 grn OTM on a front rest with no rear bag. That setup shot a 5 round group at 200 yards of 3.8 inches.

Its currently my only AR so its set up for CQB. Once I get another rifle I am planning on scoping the Noveske and adding a Daniel defense free float rail. Them we shall see what its really capable of.

Current set up
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/killerchase2000/005-2.jpg

Target
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/killerchase2000/007-1.jpg

FlyinBryan
November 9, 2010, 08:57 PM
very nice grunt.

i hear quite often that the chrome is thicker in noveski barrels (also just saw it on their website), like x2, of a standard chrome lined barrel. i wonder if this requires the bore to be oversized to bring it back to specs, or is chrome lining so thin by nature that initial boresize is the same as any other?

example: if standard chrome lining is measured in ten thousandths, like 1-2/10,000ths, it really wouldnt matter,,,,,,,,,,,as opposed to the possibility that chrome lining is one or several thousandths thick, which would of course require a correspondingly larger initial boresize to bring it back to .223-.224?????

C-grunt
November 9, 2010, 09:59 PM
very nice grunt.

i hear quite often that the chrome is thicker in noveski barrels (also just saw it on their website), like x2, of a standard chrome lined barrel. i wonder if this requires the bore to be oversized to bring it back to specs, or is chrome lining so thin by nature that initial boresize is the same as any other?

example: if standard chrome lining is measured in ten thousandths, like 1-2/10,000ths, it really wouldnt matter,,,,,,,,,,,as opposed to the possibility that chrome lining is one or several thousandths thick, which would of course require a correspondingly larger initial boresize to bring it back to .223-.224?????
Thats way over my pay grade to know. Give them a call the receptionist lady is really nice and helpful.

kwelz
November 9, 2010, 10:19 PM
I am not sure what pixie dust or ground up unicorn horn Noveske uses in their barrels, but it works. They have thicker Chrome lining but are as accurate than most places SS barrels. Yes you pay more for one, but it is worth every penny.

My next factory gun will probably be a Noveske. For what you get they are not really that much more than anyone else. However for the OP I think he would better served with a DD, BCM, or 6920.

If you enjoyed reading about "Need my first AR-15 advice!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!