OK, I'm getting a 7.62x39 AR


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frankge
November 4, 2010, 10:44 AM
Hello all,

OK, I'm getting a 7.62x39 AR
OK, I'm getting a 7.62x39 AR
OK, I'm getting a 7.62x39 AR

*ahem* now that tha's over with ;) - I would like to keep this to the info I'm seeking - not a get an AK (have one), not a 6.5 vs 6.8, and certainly not another AK vs AR vs 223 vs. 5.56 vs. 7.62 vs. howitzer discourse.

Sorry but it seems every post I searched here and the internet degenerates.

I would like to start out with this configuration, why? I have about 5000 rounds of brass reloads of 7.62x39 (if you guys wondered who bought up the brass) as well as tons of Brown Bear and the like. I want to stick with a current caliber I have the same way I dont buy a .40 handgun becasue I have 9mm and .45. I also shoot USPSA and IPDA with my AK and the ranges are CQB and I dont' really ever have a chance to shoot past 100 yards. Zombie Apocalypse, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI - c'mon guys!

I will tell you that I will probbaly get another upper in the future when I feel like it.

So after doing research I kinda narrowed it down two a couple choices

I can get an Olympic Arms K30 for $922.00 out the door from my local dealer or

Have a Spike's tactical lower complete built for 265.00 out the door and either buy a Model 1 sales 7.62x39 upper o Del-Ton upper. DPMS is a consideration but they are a few months backlogged.

I'd appreciate my fellows here that actually HAVE experience with this configuration - please no Rainbow Six Warriors, I have two in high school ;)

I'm really looking to pull the trigger so honestly it would be helpful - Thanx

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mbogo
November 4, 2010, 11:05 AM
If you think a 7.62x39 in an AR thread degenerates, wait until you see what a thread containing the words Olympic Arms, Del-ton, DPMS, and Model 1 Sales will do! :D

Pick a rig and shoot up some of that ammunition; as you said, you're not shooting past 100yds. or hunting elk with it (are you?).

You can save the contentious threads for when you're ready for another upper with more exacting criteria.

mbogo

1832
November 4, 2010, 11:39 AM
I've had my Model 1 7.62x39 Upper for nearly two years and I'm very happy with it. Early on, they tried to make it run with a standard AR bolt and the firing pin didn't detonate the hard Russian primers reliably. Some folks modified their firing pins, but I chose to buy the MGI Enhanced Bolt for the 7.62x39. I understand that Model 1 now offers an enhanced pin for their setup.

You're liable to hear a lot a of chatter about the reliability of higher capacity magazines. The early ones were a problem, but it looks like C Products has ironed out all the bugs out of theirs.

You'll be pleasantly surprised at the performance of this cartridge out of the AR platform.

frankge
November 4, 2010, 11:49 AM
Thanx - that's constructive. I plan on c-products mags. No I don't hunt in Tampa but kill a lot of clays at Silver Dollar. I mentioed these particular brands because them produce 7.62x39 uppers.

Wasn't trying to be contentious - it just seems the OP has his thread hijacked whenever this subject comes up.

If Olympic, Del-Ton, DPMS is crap I'd like to here it from a person who actually owns the gun or has some experience.

Spikes is somewhat close to me and they have a sale going on with thier lowers for I would guess $265.00 out the door - that's complete with stock. I'd rather avoid xfer fees. But the Olympic is attractive at the price quoted and my buddy has one in .223 he like and I have shot it.

I really don't want to spend alot right now - that day will come when kids are out of college and I dont have a boat or fleet of vehicles :barf:

rbernie
November 4, 2010, 12:04 PM
I've had my Model 1 7.62x39 Upper for nearly two years and I'm very happy with it. Early on, they tried to make it run with a standard AR bolt and the firing pin didn't detonate the hard Russian primers reliably. Some folks modified their firing pins, but I chose to buy the MGI Enhanced Bolt for the 7.62x39. I understand that Model 1 now offers an enhanced pin for their setup.

You're liable to hear a lot a of chatter about the reliability of higher capacity magazines. The early ones were a problem, but it looks like C Products has ironed out all the bugs out of theirs.

You'll be pleasantly surprised at the performance of this cartridge out of the AR platform.^^^
What he said. I have three 7.62x39 ARs, and two use M1S barrels. My last build was a Dissy configuration (DelTon barrel, DPMS bolt, C Products magazines, and the rest standard AR parts) and it's been 100% on all Russian ammo.

I would avoid Oly.

okiewita40
November 4, 2010, 12:13 PM
Have looked into getting an upper in x39 also. Try ar15performance. the price isn't bad and H does a heck of a job on everything he turns out. Hope the link will work for you.

http://ar15performance.com/7_62_x_39_socom_uppers

best of luck to ya.

okespe04
November 4, 2010, 12:35 PM
I don't have much advise but I will watch this thread and please keep us updated on what you decide on. I have also been interested in a 7.62X39 AR for some time.

frankge
November 4, 2010, 12:58 PM
i was leaning towards the model 1 upper and spikes lower. On Olympic, I heard in the mid 90's they were stuffing them out the door becasue of the ban but now they are much the different animal. However, speaking with them yesterday they said the stell-cased ammo VOIDS thier warranty. He went on to say that steel cased ammo is "shorter" than brass and that the necks split in the rifles chamber. I'll have to call BS on this becasue I went right out to my reloading bench an measured once of my new case reloads and steel Brown Bear and Wolf Military.

My friend feeds Wold .223 to his Oly and it runs fine. Never saw a split case or had him report one.

ssfeldjager
November 4, 2010, 05:18 PM
I have a Del-Ton 7.62x39 upper and it's shoots very good. No stoppages or feeding problems; I use the C-Products 10 round magazines, and they have also worked with no problems. I think I paid something like $460 for the A2 upper, which comes complete with the bolt assembly, charging handle and so forth. Take it from the Del-Ton box, clean it and put it onto the upper and off you go.

It's been reliable thus far and I've had no problems. I haven't used any rounds other than brass, so I have no idea as to how it would do with steel cased rounds. Although their web site says that the use of steel cased rounds will void the warranty, on the page that describes the 7.62x39 upper, it says "Due to this item being a conversion part for the AR platform, we recommend using commercial-grade ammunition. You will experience light primer strikes with military grade ammo, i.e. WOLF, Brown Bear." Eventually, I plan to use the steel cased rounds to see how they perform.

Light primer strikes can be cured by using a stronger hammer spring. Bottom line is that Del-Ton makes a good product. If you want to spend more money on an AR type rifle, the proverbial sky is the limit.

See this thread for more information. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=551058

TonyAngel
November 4, 2010, 06:06 PM
The very first AR that I ever owned was a Colt in 7.62X39 that I bought around 20 years ago. I sold it because you couldn't get hi cap mags that worked back then. I do remember the recoil being a bit more stout than it is with 5.56, but it is a bigger round.

Really, I can't steer you clear of any of the options that you've mentioned, except that I have an inexplicable dislike for Oly products. If I had to choose among the brands mentioned, I'd probably go Delton. It sounds cooler than "model 1."

Sky
November 4, 2010, 07:00 PM
hahahahhehehe That was an honest well spoken reply Tony!!

wally
November 4, 2010, 09:02 PM
On Olympic, ....
However, speaking with them yesterday they said the stell-cased ammo VOIDS thier warranty. He went on to say that steel cased ammo is "shorter" than brass and that the necks split in the rifles chamber. I'll have to call BS

You are correct. More than enough reason to not buy from them!

frankge
November 5, 2010, 05:46 PM
posted on another thread, cant find this one for some reason...

So I have step 1 done for my 7.62x39 ar build. Ordered a Spikes Tactical lower with the enhanced lower parts kit assembles with the stock and colored markings for $340.00 out the door. Buy local! For the price of the ergo grip and ambi safety I just went and upgraded with the enhanced kit for about the same price. I'm a lefty so it a good upgrade. They are selling the complete lowers with m4 stock for 250.00 and a stripped for 99.00

frankge
November 7, 2010, 06:45 AM
went to the Lakeland gun show and low and behold was an actual 7.62x39 ar-15. You alsmost never see them at local gun shows. It was built by Jeff Kaiser of Kaiser Arms on a Spikes lower. I got to speaking with him and offered to buy the upper right there which he agreed to. He knew the quirks of the platform stating he shaved the bolt carrier slightly so that the firing pin would strike a little further. He was not happy with the fit of the gas tube so he took it apart and another gun from the show and reassembled. If any one is interested in his contact info he seems to know his **** and watching him wrench on the gun in front of me proved it. I was more comfortable than this that just ordering from Model1 or Del-ton sight unseen. He did not bad mouth the other manfuacturers to his credit. He did say he used to use Olympia parts but stopped but did not get into why.

Barrel is a Double-Star has a spikes bolt carrier, A.O. Precision bolt, MOE hand guard and Spikes "fake" suppressor with a flip down rear sight. Other misc. parts are AO precision. $500.00 cash. So far I'm at $840.00 for my AR-47 which I think is quite reasonable using pretty quality components while not breaking the bank. Last purchase will be C-Products mags. I should be shooting this by next weekend for those interested.

I'll breaking it in on my brass reloads and then will try Wolf Mil Classic and Brown Bear Ammo for function.

PS - sold my Taurus PT92 and XD-9c for 650.00 and bought a used (looked damn new) G34 and pocketed $150.00 - damn! usually things are lame at gun shows lately!

DoctorOfLight
November 7, 2010, 11:56 AM
He did not bad mouth the other manfuacturers to his credit. That says a lot about a person. I'm always suspicious of someone who badmouths other peoples work to toot their own horn. Seems to say "my work aint that good, but it's better than his".

I'm picking up my 7.62 AR tomorrow. I'll be on the lookout for your range report. Can't wait to try out mine!

Col. Plink
November 7, 2010, 02:06 PM
Question for a buddy: is there a mag or follower that is better to get around the conical case/straight magazine well problem?

His runs pretty well but doesn't always seat the cartridges without a slap. Any input? Thanks!

frankge
November 7, 2010, 07:33 PM
I'm about to order C-Products mags. Research says they are the best and the once I bought the upper off of at the show had a C-Products one.

GIJOEL
November 7, 2010, 08:26 PM
I found that my CAR length needed a heavy buffer. I don't know if it will matter for you but my AR was slinging brass to the 5 o'clock position HARD, I put in a heavy buffer and it started dumping the brass more to the 3 o'clock position. I would suspect that with the higher energy of the 7.62x39 round, the heavy buffer would also help avoid beating your rifle. I can't tell if the recoil really changed with the buffer because I installed a comp when I changed the buffer.

frankge
November 7, 2010, 08:40 PM
im used to my ak shooting brass across the county

-v-
November 7, 2010, 09:37 PM
What about an MGI modular lower with the AK Magazine well adapter, and just stick to the cheap, dead-nuts reliable commie mags?

DoctorOfLight
November 7, 2010, 10:25 PM
My research has concluded for me that the cproducts mags are reliable also. I have seen them on gunbroker for cheap, at times.

frankge
November 8, 2010, 07:39 AM
here's a review of double-star, granted the barrel is what I have on my upper

http://www.gunblast.com/Doublestar-762x39.htm

desidog
November 8, 2010, 09:08 AM
What about an MGI modular lower with the AK Magazine well adapter, and just stick to the cheap, dead-nuts reliable commie mags?

Wow. I like the looks of those....but the pricetag?

If they made a 1-piece AK mag receiver, and sold it for 250 or less, i'd buy it. But 500? +250 for the AK magwell? =$750 for a stripped lower? You can get a whole AK for less.

DoctorOfLight
November 8, 2010, 11:23 PM
Desidog, as I understand it the $500 is for a stripped lower including the magwell. STILL too much $$$ IMO. Getting a different magwell costs another 250. If they ever come down on their prices, I'd be interested.

frankge
November 11, 2010, 09:00 AM
so flying back to Tampa with time to think about senseless what-if's

So this AR I'm building does not have a chrome barrel. I reload but those boxer primed cases for 7.62 are precious and I'll use a brass catcher for target shooting. I do shoot rifle matches (run and gun) and general plinking.

In your opinion(s) is it better to shoot steel cased ammo or the mildly corrosive brass cased Yugo ammo? It's about the same price. Never had to worry with my AK. Princess AR-15 needs more TLC. Of course I would hit it with Windex at the range and then clean same night.

DoctorOfLight
November 11, 2010, 10:06 AM
I vote for brass. I've seen a lot of threads about steel case ammo and how it doesn't act right. It doesn't expand enough when fired, letting gas/powder blow back past it dirtying up your bolt. It's also hard on the extractor. Lastly, many report misfires galor with the harder primers of the steel cased stuff.

I'd do a search on steel cased ammo before putting any through your gun.

frankge
November 11, 2010, 10:22 AM
yeah, i have seen different reports. The upper I have uses a modified bolt to address the light primer strike issue. I will be trying wolf military and brown bear in it for function. If the mild corrosive stuff is pretty much a non issue I'd just assume to shoot that. Looks like the choice is beat up my bolt or rust up my barrel.

desidog
November 11, 2010, 10:44 AM
Princess AR needs more TLC

I've had the same question about brass and corrosive ammo; and came to the conclusion that with DI and all those little nooks and crannies it's better not to use anything remotely corrosive. I still have the windex in my range bag for my milsurps, but with a semi-auto and a DI gas system, better to play it safe....mainly since my investment in Princess AR is not as replacement-friendly as milsurps.

In my experience, aluminum is also more easily corroded than steel, so where a WW2 blued steel rifle will still be there in the morning, the AR might have turned into a pile of aluminum oxide dust, springs, pistol grip, and a barrel.

ETA: I do run the corrosive stuff through my 7.62x25 upper, and no issues to date; but the gas tube will need to be replaced at some point. That upper is only used for plinking, whereas the x39 i'm assembling right now will be used for hunting, and therefore will be treated with maximum-respect!

DoctorOfLight
November 11, 2010, 01:20 PM
I will have to have a look-see to be sure, but I thought both Fiocchi and S&B had brass case stuff with non-corrosive primers. I was so worried about the brass case that I never stooped to think about the primers!

Anybody know for sure?

rbernie
November 11, 2010, 02:38 PM
Commercial production steel-cased ammo does not use corrosive primers and is perfectly safe to use in your AR. I have shot many thousands of rounds of it through mine with zero issues.

frankge
November 11, 2010, 04:59 PM
yeah rbernie, I followed your comments on other posts. I'll see in about a week if its the same deal with steel case in mine... double-star barrel spikes bcg.

frankge
November 14, 2010, 07:00 PM
waiting for the lower

frankge
November 19, 2010, 11:55 AM
Finished

Upper - Spikes
Lower - Spikes with enchange trigger group & ambi safety
Barrel - DoubleStar 4140 1x10 7.62x39
BCG - Spikes modified for 7.62 ammo
Buffer - Spikes tungsten
MOE Handguard and shorty grip
Spikes stock
Primary Arms M2 Red Dot
Primary Arms 3X magnifier w/ removable mount
Primary Arms Light 360 lumens
BUIS - Troy
Magazines - C-Products (on the way)

desidog
November 19, 2010, 06:55 PM
that looks cool. How long is the barrel? and is that a real can on there?

frankge
November 20, 2010, 08:45 PM
nah, ninja mall tacticool. It was on the upper when I bought it so I kept it on. After our steel challenge match today me and my kid put 50 rounds though it. First firing and zeroing the red-dot so only at 50 yard line. Shot 10 rounfs in 1 - 1.5 inches. Its not long range but I'll take it to the 100 next. I was shooting my reloads 124g V-Max, 26.5 grains AA1680, Wolf LPP, brass case. Only shot a couple rounds of brown bear. Using a .223 mag, still waiting for my c-prodcts mags to arrive.

Hammerhead6814
November 20, 2010, 09:55 PM
Mods are on the ball this month. Haven't seen any real mud-slinging in this thread yet.

Rifleman 173
November 21, 2010, 06:23 AM
So how did it shoot? Did you have any problems with the 7.62 X 39 magazines double stacking in the center like I did? I like the M-4 clone I have in 7.62 X 39 because of the ergonomics, the ability to add devices on top of it and because the bullet is bigger and heavier than the .223 shooters. But no matter what I do, I end up with the magazines double stacking on me about half way down inside of them.

Skribs
November 21, 2010, 06:56 AM
After getting a 7.62 AR, you should get a 5.56 AK. Just to confuse people when you pull out the opposite rounds that they would expect. If you already have a 5.56 AK, then even better.

frankge
November 21, 2010, 07:24 AM
Final judgement will come when the c-products 7.62x39 mags come in. I borrowed a friends .223 amd all I cuold load was one or two rounds. Feels good to shoot it compared to my AK. I'll look into a 5.56 eventually I'm sure, thats the beauty of the platform. Too bad I dont have the mags have a 3-gun today and using my AK - since the ranges are CQB it's never been an issue. It's funny to watch guys f around with thier ARs jamming and such. Almost 4000 rounds through my AK and never a jam or ftf. If I can get this kind of reliability from my new build I'll be truly stoked.

Rifleman 173
November 22, 2010, 08:55 AM
You might want to just get another upper half for your lower. That way you have two uppers for the one lower. You can then switch back and forth whenever you like. Heck, you can get a number of upper halves for your lower and have one lower that uses a variety of different uppers. Maybe 1 lower to be used on 6 or more uppers. That is the nicest thing about the M-4 carbines: so many options.

frankge
December 2, 2010, 02:55 PM
So for a range report.

Gun handles great. Doesn't kick like an AK does because a lot less moving mass and the ergonomics are much better. The Cproducts mags are working with FMJ withou a hitch. Gun does not like HPs at all. I shot my own loads of VMAX, 147g Steel Core, and Winchester .308 bullets. Surprisingly the .308 bullets were accurate out at 100 yds.

I shot palm sized groups at 100 yds with my reloads and hand sized with the steel cased ammo. My reloads I am using AA1680 just under max becasue thats how the powder likes it I have found. The steel case was Wolf Military Classic (luv the thermonuclear fireball) and Brown Bear HP's. I found the Brown Bear a little more accurate when they were feeding well but all were dangerous at 100yds.

I'm sure I could hit point of man at 300 yds if I had to given todays results. Disappointing that it wou't feed HPs even with th M4 feed ramps but the VMAX ballastic tips or a soft point will be fine and probably more effective.

I'm bulding another AR for my kid but it will be a 5.56 becasue he want to get into competition and being 14 I dont want the recoil beating him up more - 5.56 really has no recoil IMHO. I'll also get a 5.56 upper (or just use his) too but I like this gun.

frankge
January 13, 2011, 10:31 AM
update:

Took the gun the the Hernando 3gun last weekend. With my reloads Brass/AA1680/VMAX I was able to bing small plates at 200yds. I have a primary arms M2 red dot and 3x magnifier.

Shooting Wolf MC I started getting hang ups. After closer inspection I observed that the DoubleStar barrel had rifle feedramps and the upper (AR Precision/Spikes) had M4 feedramps. The nose of the bullets were barely catching on the mis-aligned edges....

Cringe and flame time; took the Dremel out and carefully mated the surfaces to match. Then polished with white then red jewelers rouge to a mirror shine. I can now feed the Wolf MC's again and the Brown Bear HPs. Have not taken it to the range yet and have a 3gun at the WAC this weekend in Tampa - I'll bring my "real" AK as a backup.

Col. Plink
January 13, 2011, 05:12 PM
Apparently those c-products mags are the difference between projects like this working or not. Seems like all others are known for the problems with conical cases in the straight part of the mag (feeding).

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