Why a standard buffer in LMT Defender lower?


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minutemen1776
November 4, 2010, 02:56 PM
Does anyone know why LMT uses a standard carbine buffer, and not a milspec H buffer, in its Defender assembled lowers? So far as I can tell, their AR15 lower is otherwise milspec. Just curious.

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TonyAngel
November 4, 2010, 05:45 PM
A standard buffer is really all you need, unless you have a reason for needing to slow the bolt down during cycling. Heavy buffers can be used for any number of reasons like possibly reducing the recoil impulse, to slowing down the cyclic rate of a full auto rifle, to helping to reduce the effects of a barrel with an oversize gas port. Aside from having a heavy buffer being the flavor of the day, there is no need for it in a properly running rifle. And, the standard ones are cheaper.

Gary G23
November 4, 2010, 06:03 PM
It saves them money.

minutemen1776
November 5, 2010, 11:53 AM
It's easy to say it's just a cost-cutting decision, and maybe that's the case. However, LMT is a top-tier AR manufacturer that's not known for cutting a lot of corners. Actually, the market that LMT appeals to most would gladly pay a few more dollars for the H buffer and would be more likely to shy away from an obvious non-milspec feature. I guess I'm just wondering why LMT might cut this one corner when everything else about its lower is milspec. Maybe we'll never know. :confused:

Z-Michigan
November 5, 2010, 11:56 AM
I'm puzzled. Seriously, have you thought about contacting LMT? I disagree with Tony's "flavor of the day" comment, as an H buffer is a good idea in pretty much anything running a carbine-length buffer tube and spring, regardless of whether the front end is an M4, midlength or even a 20" rifle. I'm thinking it's some combination of (1) cost and (2) expecting the purchaser to want something different from whatever they ship anyway (like an H2 if you use the lower with an M4 style 16" upper).

benEzra
November 5, 2010, 12:06 PM
They're not built to work with the LMT "Enhanced Bolt Carrier", are they? That unit vents gas faster, resulting in less force on the bolt (and hence would make it susceptible to sluggish cycling if you used too heavy a buffer with it).

I dunno, just guessing. I agree that the small cost difference was probably not LMT's rationale.

ny32182
November 5, 2010, 12:14 PM
I doubt cost difference is a major factor; what could the cost difference possibly be?

They don't know what kind of upper you are going to put on it. I disagree that an H buffer is "always a good idea". Use a buffer appropriate to the upper (more accurately, appropriate to the gas pulse). I use H buffers with 14.5 and/or 16" carbine uppers. I have a "standard weight" in my 16" mid length, and would likely use the standard weight with any midlength or rifle length. I have an H2 in my 10.5 and will probably go to an H2 in my 11.5".

ssyoumans
November 5, 2010, 02:53 PM
What's a good H buffer to pick up at a reasonable price and where? I've got a S&W M&P and have thought I might try out the H buffer.
I didn't see many choices at MidwayUSA. I gave up searching on Brownells as they must have the worst search engine on the web.

ny32182
November 5, 2010, 03:11 PM
Any of the major AR15 retailers should have different weight buffers; Bravo Co, Rainier, etc.

1858
November 5, 2010, 03:48 PM
I'm using an H buffer in my carbine along with a TUBB spring and it works perfectly with zero feeding or ejection issues using PMAGs or GI mags (BM follower and spring). If cost isn't an issue, I'd recommend buying an H3 buffer (5.5 oz) if you already have a standard buffer. You'll have three tungsten weights and three standard weights so you can assemble any buffer you desire be it a H, H1, H2 or H3. If your standard buffer isn't working well, use the H3 weights to assemble an H1 and H2 buffer. That way, you can see if one works better than the other. You can always reassemble the standard and H3 buffers if so desired.

Buffer weights

Standard = 3.0 oz
H = 3.8 oz
H2= 4.7 oz
H3 = 5.6 oz

:)

minutemen1776
December 14, 2010, 12:31 PM
I thought I'd post an update on this. I drank the H-buffer Kool-Aid and bought one from BCM. I installed it in my LMT lower and tested it at the range the other day. The rifle (which has a BCM 14.5" M4 upper and Daniel Defense M16 BCG) functioned fine with brass-cased American ammo, but it would short-stroke with Wolf. This was not a problem with the regular carbine buffer that was originally installed in the LMT lower. So maybe LMT uses the carbine buffer to ensure functionality across the entire ammunition spectrum? Any thoughts? I've already switched back to the original buffer. Anybody want to buy a barely used BCM H-buffer? :o

kwelz
December 14, 2010, 12:51 PM
This is one of those baffling decisions that otherwise great companies make. LMT has a couple of them that have always bugged me. No Taper pins, no finish under the FSB, and no H buffer. ***!

Anybody want to buy a barely used BCM H-buffer?
Yes actually I would!

DoubleTapDrew
December 14, 2010, 12:58 PM
^ I thought my defender lower had a H buffer but maybe not. It works fine with the 16" midlength BCM upper I have on it using M193 but I haven't tried wolf in it yet.

kwelz
December 14, 2010, 01:15 PM
It will have an H on the face of the buffer if it is a heavy buffer.

minutemen1776
December 14, 2010, 02:13 PM
Azizza, I agree about LMT's FSB and the taper pins, which is one reason I went with BCM for my upper assembly.

BTW, I sent you a PM if you're interested in the H-buffer.

Kwanger
December 14, 2010, 02:38 PM
What's a good H buffer to pick up at a reasonable price and where? I've got a S&W M&P and have thought I might try out the H buffer.
I didn't see many choices at MidwayUSA. I gave up searching on Brownells as they must have the worst search engine on the web.
In my M&P15 I went with the Spikes ST-T2 (near H2 weight) and the Sprinco Extra Power spring (red, part 25004):

http://www.sprinco.com/tactical.html

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/stt2-heavy-buffer-p-201.html

- 100% reliable with all ammo from Hornady to Wolf, noticeable reduction in felt recoil. Bonus point: Completely eliminates the AR "sproing" sound, too :)

Regarding why LMT would use the standard buffer....don't know. I can't see why they would do it for cost reasons. Could well be that BenEzra has it right....perhaps evidenced by Minuteman.

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