1911 in IDPA ??


PDA






devildave31
November 9, 2010, 06:23 AM
I am interested in getting started in IDPA and I have been perusing the rulebook online, but one question does not seem to have a black and white answer. I own and intend to use a Full size GI (slightly modified) 1911. I am curious what category the 1911 would fall into. The main thing that hangs me up is the unloaded weight with empty mag. From what I have found on the internet regarding unloaded weight, a GI model 1911 gets very close to weight limits without a magazine.

My question is what shooting category would the average 1911 fall into?

Also, I see that slide lightening is not allowed, would lowering and flaring an ejection port reduce much weight? If so would it still be allowed?

If you enjoyed reading about "1911 in IDPA ??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Sam1911
November 9, 2010, 07:21 AM
A .45 ACP 1911 runs in CDP. That division was written around that gun. Yes, the weight limits are tight, but most guns will make it as long as they don't have heavy grips or other odd parts. (You can shoot in ESP, but you'd be at a significant disadvantage against the higher capacity guns shooting lighter ammo.)

I've seen a guy remove two grip screws to get in under the weight limit, so every little bit can help. So, yes, lowering and flaring an ejection port might give you a weight benefit, as can high-grip frame cuts and other favorite custom touches.

Of further help, this year's new rules update moves the limit up to 42 oz.

All that to say ... unless you are shooting large "Sanctioned" matches, I wouldn't worry too much about having a pistol that runs at 42.01 oz. I've never seen a club match where the MD broke out the scale and DQ'd folks for being over-weight. Most of the time that kind of thing is reserved for the large state and regional matches.

Go, get involved and practice up. Cross the scales bridge later when you need to.

jmorris
November 9, 2010, 08:35 AM
While lowering and flaring the ejection port is not in the inclusive list, it is a common and factory cut on many pistols, I would bet 99% of the pistols shot in IDPA have this cut. The general rule is, if Bill Wilson sells a gun that has such modification it will be allowed. It’s like a “hi power” cut is legal (and that actually lightens the slide quite a bit).

I have a little different opinion on sticking to the rules than Sam, if you are not going to play by them, then don’t play. It is not that hard to stay within the rules. You can have a 1911 with full length guide rod, steel magwell, heavy frame for light mount and bowmar sights that fits in the box and makes weight, with room to spare. No reason to cheat, if you can play fair but he is right in that you would likely be the only one to know.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/DSC02080.jpg

ny32182
November 9, 2010, 10:55 AM
I've yet to personally encounter even a sanctioned match that did any gear checking beyond holster positioning. Sample size of four. Some matches will.

There is a guy at IDPA HQ you can email for any specific rules interpretation/clarification. I've seen it ruled before that just about any aftermarket slide cutting can be interpreted as lightening.

My opinion; if you are new to IDPA going to a local/club match, just go and shoot and see if you like it. If you decide you want to continue, there will be plenty of time and opportunity to get your gear into conformance. I rarely see a newbie with 100% legal gear, and if we kicked them all out based on that we'd never have any new shooters.

devildave31
November 9, 2010, 11:01 AM
That was my point in asking. If it is commonly accepted as ok practice, then I would look into it more, but if it is a gray area, especially since it could be percieved as an attempt to circumvent any rules, then I would prefer to avoid it. Especially since it cannot be undone.

I have not weighed my 1911 yet, plus I plan on making some minor mods (beavertail grip, change out sights) and it could end up changing anyways. Like I said I was concerned because going by factory dimension listings it appears that 1911s run a pretty thin line on the weight limit.

I appreciate everyone's input.

dhfenno
November 9, 2010, 01:58 PM
CDP or ESP.

Jim Watson
November 9, 2010, 02:54 PM
Withoug seeming to recommend disregarding the rules, if you appear at an IDPA club level shoot, you will be allowed to enter with any reasonably suitable and safe gun. Just don't buy something new that does not meet requirements.

Most 1911s will make the new weight limit of 42 oz even with mag well funnels, full length guide rods, and big adjustable sights.

There were some guns that did not make the old 41 oz CDP limit at the first Nationals with gun weigh-ins. I saw one Les Baer shooter get real bent out of shape that they would dare sell him a gun not to spec.

I was not able to use my old faithful metal backed Pachmayr grips at 41 oz, I need to check to see if they will pass at 42.

Sam1911
November 9, 2010, 03:35 PM
Withoug seeming to recommend disregarding the rules, if you appear at an IDPA club level shoot, you will be allowed to enter with any reasonably suitable and safe gun.

This was exactly my point. As an MD myself, I'll be the last to tell you to circumvent the rules, or to cheat.

However, if it's a matter of your gun being over by a fraction of an ounce, and maybe you'll have it sent off for some 'smithing sometime and deal with that -- I'd MUCH rather have you out shooting NOW than not participating in club-level matches just because your gun is slightly out of bounds.

Coming out to shoot is the important thing. Get to know your local group, check your gun on their scales, talk to the local MD about any mods you might want to do, and start getting some experience. You'll have plenty of time to work out your kit and make sure you're all "in bounds" before you head off to a Major match.

jmorris
November 9, 2010, 05:46 PM
Coming out to shoot is the important thing. Get to know your local group, check your gun on their scales, talk to the local MD about any mods you might want to do, and start getting some experience.



I'll agree with that. I bored out the FL guide rod in the center of the photo above for a fellow shooter that had a pistol that tipped the scales a bit too heavy. No big deal for your first time, it's generally a "run what you brung" deal as you have plenty other hurtles to over come that day.

devildave31
November 9, 2010, 08:17 PM
Well I'll see how it weighs out after I do my work, It may be a non issue anyways.

Just out of curiosity, if CDP was set up with 1911s in mind, why is it so close? Is it to avoid people adding on high dollar accessories?

Jim Watson
November 9, 2010, 09:01 PM
Yes.
IDPA has always been concerned with avoiding the perception of an equipment race. They don't want you to be able to hang too much stuff on your gun. Contrary to popular opinion, Wilson DOES make guns not eligible for IDPA.

Perception. Yes, a $500 RIA will be in the same division as a $5000 Signature Model. But they are still 1911s.

doc540
November 9, 2010, 09:55 PM
Shot an IDPA match last Saturday with my 9mm Combat Commander.

They determined it to be ESP.

DT Guy
November 9, 2010, 10:46 PM
Of course-single action, not a .45 = ESP.


Larry

Sam1911
November 10, 2010, 06:38 AM
Of course-single action, not a .45 = ESP.


Yup. One of the basic requirements (Page 1 of the rule book) for CDP class is .45 ACP caliber.

Single-action pistols in other calibers run in ESP.

If you enjoyed reading about "1911 in IDPA ??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!