Difference between a suppressor and a silencer?


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macadore
November 10, 2010, 10:12 PM
What is the difference between a suppressor and a silencer? Is there a threshold where a suppressor becomes a silencer? Would it require a tax stamp to put something on a firearm to muffle the sound but not silence it.?

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JoeMal
November 10, 2010, 10:16 PM
Silencer does just that; makes less noise when firing a round. Suppressors suppress the amount of muzzle blast, affecting flash and recoil

Zombiphobia
November 10, 2010, 10:17 PM
It's essentially the same thing.

TexasRifleman
November 10, 2010, 10:21 PM
Would it require a tax stamp to put something on a firearm to muffle the sound but not silence it.

A tax stamp is required if an item decreases the sound by any amount.

18 U.S.C. sec. 921(a)(24) "The term 'firearm silencer' or 'firearm muffler' means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

Jim Watson
November 10, 2010, 10:21 PM
In 1909 Hiram Percy Maxim (son of the MG designer) patented the baffle type firearms silencer.

Circa 1980 somebody noticed that a silencer did not make a gun completely quiet and decided the device needed a new name and started calling it a suppressor.

It is all the same thing, just depending on how tactical you want to sound.

cleardiddion
November 10, 2010, 10:51 PM
diminishing the report of a portable firearm
Does that mean something like a cannon could be suppressed legally without paperwork?

M-Cameron
November 11, 2010, 09:31 AM
Does that mean something like a cannon could be suppressed legally without paperwork?


from my understanding, if it cannot be readily attached to a firearm, then its good......

....although a cannon silencer would be massive, most likely larger than the cannon its self. .....and yes, its been done

http://www.silencertests.com/albums/Oddities/Haubitzenschalldaempfer.jpg
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?47489-Tank-Silencers

jmorris
November 11, 2010, 09:38 AM
By the definition of law they are the same thing. Like saying warm heat.

Zombiphobia
November 11, 2010, 09:42 AM
Cameron- Holy.. Crap!!!

It wouldn't surprise me, though, to find out a General procured that for his own personal amusement.

zoom6zoom
November 11, 2010, 09:42 AM
"Silencer" was a trademark of the Maxim Company for a suppressor.

macadore
November 11, 2010, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the responses. It would be nice if one could bring the report of a handgun down to the point that it didn't damage your hearing. I fail to see why that is criminal activity.

Gryffydd
November 11, 2010, 09:58 AM
Silencer does just that; makes less noise when firing a round.
This must be some new definition of the word silence that I wasn't previously aware of...

M-Cameron
November 11, 2010, 09:59 AM
Thanks for the responses. It would be nice if one could bring the report of a handgun down to the point that it didn't damage your hearing. I fail to see why that is criminal activity.

dont you know.....if suppressors were freely sold, the number of hitmen and gang members would increase 4 fold.....it would be a blood bath and no criminals would ever get caught........


but in all seriousness.....in many countries, silencers are freely sold and are considered "neighborly"..........

jmorris
November 11, 2010, 10:22 AM
It would be nice if one could bring the report of a handgun down to the point that it didn't damage your hearing. I fail to see why that is criminal activity.


You can and its not criminal if you do it legally. All of my form 4's and 1's read "silencer" but from 1c of the instructions you could also fill it out as "muffler".

CleverNickname
November 11, 2010, 11:34 AM
Does that mean something like a cannon could be suppressed legally without paperwork

It's my understanding that these silenced, permanently installed shotguns used for cleaning industrial kilns aren't regulated as silencers.
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/industrial/masterblaster-system.aspx

W.E.G.
November 11, 2010, 11:50 AM
The ATF paperwork will absolutely describe it as a SILENCER, because that is what the law calls it.

It does not matter what the vendor, the owner, the "black ops," or the internet would rather call it.

A GEMTECH HALO "silencer" fired with M193 ball ammo still requires ear protection on the firing line. Sounds about like an un-suppressed .22 magnum.

Ranb
November 11, 2010, 12:13 PM
This must be some new definition of the word silence that I wasn't previously aware of...

Not new at all. The feds merely define (since 1934) a gun muffler or silencer as anything that reduces the noise of a portable firearm. Nothing to do with reality.

Ranb

DoubleTapDrew
November 11, 2010, 03:21 PM
It's my understanding that these silenced, permanently installed shotguns used for cleaning industrial kilns aren't regulated as silencers.

Are the kiln cleaners considered firearms though? If it's just considered a tool it probably isn't regulated, like a nail gun isn't an AOW.

If you ask someone about suppressors you may get different answers since a flash suppressor will pop into some peoples minds and a sound suppressor will come to mind in others. But I do prefer the term suppressor since it does suppress the sound, it doesn't silence it, so it's less misleading to folks who's only experience is from movies.

It's my understanding that "Silencer" was the brand name Maxim used on his invention. These days the Maxim Silencer company builds "silencers" for other products: http://www.maximsilencers.com/

Rather than the original (although he also invented engine silencer/mufflers back then too), back when you could pick them up at hardware stores for a couple dollars.

http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/shooting-without-noise-maxim-silencer-front-pg.jpg

Jim K
November 11, 2010, 03:48 PM
"Suppressor" or "sound suppressor" and "silencer" are the same thing. The law uses the term "silencer" but then says that any device that reduces the sound of a firearm is a "silencer."

Some purists, insisting that "silencers don't silence" (a few really do), began to use the term "suppressor", but that only satisfies the ego, it doesn't change the law. I have heard that some folks have tried to argue in court that they didn't have a "silencer", but a "suppressor" and therefore were not violating the law. There is a term for those folks - jailhouse lawyers.

Jim

Quoheleth
November 11, 2010, 04:10 PM
post #7 - tank balls?

Seriously - think of the pressure that has to be able to withstand! Yikes!!!

RhinoDefense
November 12, 2010, 01:23 PM
A GEMTECH HALO "silencer" fired with M193 ball ammo still requires ear protection on the firing line. Sounds about like an un-suppressed .22 magnum.
Plenty of other suppressors on the market are hearing safe.

Magoo
November 12, 2010, 07:38 PM
The ATF paperwork will absolutely describe it as a SILENCER, because that is what the law calls it.

I just got my Form 4 back (approved :)) and in section 4.b. "Type of Firearm" mine says Suppressor.

jmorris
November 12, 2010, 07:46 PM
Quote:
The ATF paperwork will absolutely describe it as a SILENCER, because that is what the law calls it.

I just got my Form 4 back (approved ) and in section 4.b. "Type of Firearm" mine says Suppressor.


One of the form 1’s or 4’s that I have was approved without a signature. It’s just like every desk job, things slip by from time to time. Almost makes me want to send in a MG form 1 just to see what happens.

five.five-six
November 12, 2010, 08:34 PM
Silencer, means you are watching a movie
suppressor, means you are IRL

there is no such thing as a silencer that I am aware of, a suppressor is a muzzle device that suppresses the sound coming out of the muzzel... but it is most definitely not silent

DannyinJapan
November 12, 2010, 11:18 PM
Silencer is the term used by the inventor, so I suppose that makes it "correct." There is really only one gun I know of that was ever actually "silenced." - The DeLisle Carbine.
More than having a large integral "silencer", it also had a felt-lined chamber to catch expended shells. (so they wouldn't hit the ground and make any noise)

W.E.G.
November 12, 2010, 11:31 PM
Plenty of other suppressors on the market are hearing safe.

Maybe if you shoot sub-sonic ammo.

You will NOT find a "hearing safe" suppressor for the .223.
The sound that is most harmful to your ears is the "crack" from the bullet exceeding the speed of sound.
Same reason why hearing protection is required when working in the pits, pulling targets, when the shooter is distant 200 yards or more.
No suppressor/silencer can reduce that "crack."

RhinoDefense
November 13, 2010, 02:40 AM
I'm quite familiar with suppressors, sound testing, and suppressor design. My company makes sound suppressors.

No, you are wrong, there are plenty on the market that reduce the sound signature below 140dB with supersonic ammunition, which is the OSHA threshold for impulsive noise. AAC currently has all 6 of their 5.56mm suppressors that reduce the sound signature well below 140dB. My company has both 5.56mm suppressors below 140dB. GemTech has all 6 5.56mm cans meeting or exceeding OSHA level. I can't think of a company whose can doesn't suppress less than 25dB with their 5.56mm suppressors. So there's over two dozen suppressors that are hearing safe. That's only three companies and there are dozens out there. If you like I can find more to list.

jmorris
November 13, 2010, 08:45 AM
I don’t about all of the numbers but I have shot 22lr rifles (I plug for .22 pistols) most of my life without “ears” unless I was indoors or around others that might shoot something louder around me. All of my suppressed rifles and pistols with the exception of one are just as quite as a .22 rifle, most make less noise.

Ranb
November 13, 2010, 04:47 PM
You will NOT find a "hearing safe" suppressor for the .223.

I can make any suppressed firearm (even with 1000 fps ammo) too loud to shoot without hearing protection just by shooting it in an enclosed space. The environment a person shoots in is a big deal. While shooting my 338 ultra mag with a can out in the open is hearing safe (as far as I can tell), even something much less powerful like the 223 rem is not hearing safe if shot under weather protection outdoors. The muzzle blast and sonic boom reflect off of the weather protection and hurts the ears.

My hearing is tested periodically. I can still hear as low as 5-20 decibels depending on the frequency. I never shoot without hearing protection of some sort, either plugs or a silencer or both, even when sooting a rifle with 22lr subsonic. The only ammo I have used that is hearing safe without a suppressor is the 22 CB in a rifle.

Ranb

Wahoo95
November 13, 2010, 05:10 PM
"Silencer" is the correct term.....as defined by the inventor and classified by BATF. Many use the term "Suppressor" which is fine.

DannyinJapan
November 13, 2010, 05:42 PM
I always wondered: What if your rifle had a barrel that was so long that the gas completely finished expanding before the bullet left the muzzle?
Theoretically speaking, it would be "silenced" but it would not have a silencer.
Anybody know how long the barrel would have to be?

RhinoDefense
November 14, 2010, 02:35 PM
Several feet long.

Ranb
November 14, 2010, 05:34 PM
Here is how I determined it. From my reading, it seems that when smokeless powder chemically decomposes to a gas, it expands by a factor of 1700 times the original volume, not including the change in temperature. The temperature climbs to about 5000 degrees F. If 25% of the heat is lost through the barrel and we convert to Rankine, then the final temperature is 4120 R If we start with a .308 caliber barrel and 50 grains of powder with a volume of 3.6 milli-liters, the gas expands to about 6120 milli-liters (373 cubic inches). A 30 caliber barrel with this volume is 417 feet long.

To correct for temperature, we use the following equation;

P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2

Initial Temperature is 68 F or 528 R Assuming that initial and final pressure are the same, final volume would be equal to T2V1/T1, or 417 x 4120 / 528 = 3254 feet long.

I'll stick with using a silencer.

Ranb

DannyinJapan
November 14, 2010, 06:13 PM
damn I wish I knew how to figure stuff out like that.
how about a .22 ?

Ranb
November 14, 2010, 06:55 PM
Basic high school physics/math. The US Navy made me use it again in school.

367 feet long for a 22lr barrel. Actually I think there is no way the bullet would ever make it out of the barrel given the amount of friction there is in there. I think it would stick in less than 50 feet and the remaining pressure would slowly leak out past the bullet and the brass case.

Ranb

JDMorris
November 14, 2010, 08:15 PM
well, one exists, and one does not.

Zoogster
November 14, 2010, 09:53 PM
I always wondered: What if your rifle had a barrel that was so long that the gas completely finished expanding before the bullet left the muzzle?
Theoretically speaking, it would be "silenced" but it would not have a silencer.
Anybody know how long the barrel would have to be?


Here is a design that is based on such a concept:

http://www.dillerdesign.com/quietgun/
http://www.dillerdesign.com/quietgun/img/tomanddeer.jpg
http://www.dillerdesign.com/quietgun/img/image001.jpg


Shotguns of course operate at much lower pressures, meaning you start closer to where you want to be, but there is also a significant volume of air offsetting that somewhat, and a larger caliber bore for sound waves to exit.


This thing is basically a very long barrel with ports that allow small amounts of gas out along part of the length.
By the time the majority of the gas reaches the muzzle end it has slowed so much that the noise level is very low.


Here is some noise levels of a standard 12 gauge by barrel length:

12 Gauge
28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18" barrel 161.50dB

The decibel system is logarithmic, 10 decibels higher is 10x more powerful for example, roughly twice as "loud", and has well over 3x the pressure wave on average.

As you can see just 10 inches of shotgun barrel alone reduce the decibels by 10.
An 18" barreled shotgun can be twice as "loud" as a 28" barreled shotgun using the same ammunition.

Now consider that the ATF considers any device you add to the firearm that reduces the muzzle report to be a "silencer".
Just barrel can reduce the report by more than that. Even a fake suppressor, those plain tubes that are added for appearance should reduce it by that much. Meaning by their own definition a fake silencer is a silencer.
(But those are widely sold as a cosmetic accessory.)


Obviously a long enough barrel can reduce the report significantly.
The problem with RanB's example is that is assuming you need to get to air room pressure. But you don't need to get to anywhere near that pressure to have something as quiet as a typical silencer.
You can have a report closer to a typical pellet gun at a fraction of the length required to return to normal air pressure.
Though the length is still obviously cumbersome and typically impractical.

First Big Foot
December 6, 2010, 02:08 AM
If I am not trying to silence a rifle, but to reduce the recoil, what is the name of that device? It blows some of the blast out to the sides or rearward.

Ranb
December 6, 2010, 05:04 AM
It is a muzzle brake. Providing a surface for the gases to push forward against and diverting the flow to the side or back reduces recoil. It can also greatly increase noise heard at the shooter's position.

Ranb

Wahoo95
December 6, 2010, 09:20 AM
Muzzle Break

Jim Watson
December 6, 2010, 09:29 AM
A silencer/suppressor serves quite well as a muzzle brake, too.
That was one of the advantages cited by Mr Maxim in 1909. The Army thought so, there was a plan to issue silenced Springfields to marksmen. The reduction in noise, flash, and recoil would make them effective. The plan fell through against obstacles of bulk and cost, and the then new emphasis on long range machine gun fire.

NRA does not allow suppressors in F class shooting on the grounds that they are effective brakes and give a competitive advantage. I knew a couple of guys who shot with them before the ruling and they seemed effective. Not so effective on blast that you could get along without ear protection, though. You don't shoot subsonic at 1000 yards. I stood behind one of them and took out my earplugs. It was still too loud for comfort. The whistle as the "can" depressurized after each shot was a surprise.

First Big Foot
December 6, 2010, 11:24 AM
Hi Ranb:
Thanks.
Do you know if there are any instructions out there for making such a thing?
I have looked at pictures, and wondered if such could be put on a rifle.
I don't think they are illegal, are they?

First Big Foot
December 6, 2010, 11:26 AM
Hi Jim Watson:
I saw that Maxim photo down lower, but silencers are illegal.
So I wanted to avoid going to prison just to reduce recoil.
Thanks for your response.

Wahoo95
December 6, 2010, 11:44 AM
Silencers are restricted but not illegal in most states. There are tons of plans out there for making your own.

Ranb
December 6, 2010, 12:10 PM
First Big Foot. You need to take a look at the CA statues to see if putting a muzzle device on a rifle is legal. It might just be the barrel threads that are forbidden. It might only apply to semi-auto rifles. Threading a barrel and attaching a brake or flash suppressor might make it an "assault rifle".

Wahoo95, I think when FBF says silencers are illegal, he means in the PRK, CA to the rest of us.

Ranb

Zak Smith
December 6, 2010, 12:24 PM
Contemporary manufacturers themselves and the ATF use the terms interchangeably, so it's kind of a moot point.

springwalk
December 6, 2010, 07:54 PM
my definition is that its a silencer if its subsonic and I dont need an ablative to assist quieting. That basically covers only .22 rimfire, 9mm and the precious few 40 and 45 dry cans like my SilencerCo Osprey. Anything going supersonic which includes all centerfire rifle cans like .223 and .308 are suppressors. Also all wet cans in 9mm, 40 and 45 that need an ablative like pulling gel or water to be hearing safe I deem a suppressor. Of course even the quietest .22 rimfires arent truly silent by definition, but they come close with the right host like a .22 bolt gun.

RTR_RTR
December 26, 2010, 01:35 AM
Here is how I determined it. From my reading, it seems that when smokeless powder chemically decomposes to a gas, it expands by a factor of 1700 times the original volume, not including the change in temperature. The temperature climbs to about 5000 degrees F. If 25% of the heat is lost through the barrel and we convert to Rankine, then the final temperature is 4120 R If we start with a .308 caliber barrel and 50 grains of powder with a volume of 3.6 milli-liters, the gas expands to about 6120 milli-liters (373 cubic inches). A 30 caliber barrel with this volume is 417 feet long.

To correct for temperature, we use the following equation;

P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2

Initial Temperature is 68 F or 528 R Assuming that initial and final pressure are the same, final volume would be equal to T2V1/T1, or 417 x 4120 / 528 = 3254 feet long.

I'll stick with using a silencer.

Ranb


Just to make a couple theoretical adjustments without doing the math - you're going to dissipate a lot more heat with a long barrel, and gases cool as they decrease pressure, so the actual length of the barrel needed would probably be somewhere in between the two numbers you gave.

1911austin
January 6, 2011, 01:25 PM
Silencer, means you are watching a movie
suppressor, means you are IRL

there is no such thing as a silencer that I am aware of, a suppressor is a muzzle device that suppresses the sound coming out of the muzzel... but it is most definitely not silent


This has been debated to death. The terms mean the same thing. Look at AAC's website. They are one of the top makers and call their's "silencers".

AAC website (http://www.advanced-armament.com/default.aspx?pageId=3)

451 Detonics
January 7, 2011, 08:32 AM
Suppressor or silencer? All I know is my .308 is very quiet, even under an overhead. This is using subsonic but even with full power it is ear friendly. This is a early eighties Ceiner can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LF4QpZMeVU

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/ruger771.jpg

wannasupra
January 8, 2011, 02:25 PM
Muzzle Break

sorry guy, that would indicate a defective or possibly a two piece muzzle. "brake" is the correct spelling.

http://www.omgmod.org/wiki/images/5/51/Nazi.jpg

Gryffydd
January 15, 2011, 10:06 PM
Not new at all. The feds merely define (since 1934) a gun muffler or silencer as anything that reduces the noise of a portable firearm. Nothing to do with reality.

Ranb
Ahh, but I was referring to the word "silence" not the word "silencer", in direct response to to the statement: "Silencer does just that; makes less noise when firing a round." Usage by the ATF and manufacturers aside, a silencer does not "do just that".

By the way, nice job on your testimony for HB1016. You guys all did a good job. Looks like you might actually have some traction this year.

GURU1911
January 15, 2011, 10:51 PM
Hiram maxim, famous inventor of the maxim machinegun, invented & was granted a us patent on a device he called a "silencer"--his reason for inventing ???---to help dampen the muzzle blast from his rifle so that he could harvest game animals in close proximity to his neighbor's home & not disturb them !!!!! Eventually the term "silencer" developed a negative social context, even though the device, as with all other firearms, is not inherently evil--it does not have a mind of it's own which chooses to do evil or illegal deeds.

The terminology preferred by shooters today is a "sonic suppressor"
they will not silence the muzzle blast, but it comes darn close !!!

Gentlemen: When in mixed company of shooters & non-shooters, please use the term "sonic suppressor". Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Ranb
January 17, 2011, 11:05 AM
No way! It is time to take the word silencer back from the anti-gunners. :)

Ranb

Myles
January 20, 2011, 01:21 PM
I've fired an integral Ruger MkII (Jonathan Arthur Ciener), and the <click> of the firing pin, and the <clack> of the slide were the loudest parts of the process. Heck of a lot of fun, too.

Ironman
January 24, 2011, 01:53 PM
I call it whatever I want to at the time im referring to it. Dont care either way. YMMV

First Big Foot
January 25, 2011, 02:31 AM
Hi: Thanks for the response.
I wasn't planning on screwing one on. I was wondering about these holes in barrels themselves. I have seen Glocks with holes on the top of the last couple inches of barrels, and rifles with slots cut in the sides of the barrels. I wondered if there was any guidance on how to cut, what angles, surface area of forward portions of cuts, that sort of thing. Since I wasn't adding to the barrel any parts, and wasn't so much trying to silence it so much as reducing recoil, I didn't think that was illegal, or even in question.

I have an old 303 Enfield that I was considering cutting up and reducing the weight in several manners, by drilling large holde in the stock, removing a lot of excess steel, and such, and if it gets down to about four pounds I wanted to reduce recoil with slots or holes in the tip of the barrel. I have read of ways to EDM, and also figured it might be just drillable or grindable.

Any input?

First Big Foot. You need to take a look at the CA statues to see if putting a muzzle device on a rifle is legal. It might just be the barrel threads that are forbidden. It might only apply to semi-auto rifles. Threading a barrel and attaching a brake or flash suppressor might make it an "assault rifle".

Wahoo95, I think when FBF says silencers are illegal, he means in the PRK, CA to the rest of us.

Ranb
__________________
Help make silencer use in WA legal by supporting House bill 1604. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...1604&year=2009 Write Judiciary chairman Pedersen and ask him to give the bill a hearing. http://www.leg.wa.gov/house/represen.../pedersen.aspx

First Big Foot
January 25, 2011, 02:45 AM
Hi Drew:
So I am guessing that these Maxim Silencers are now illegal?
Sounds like exactly what I wanted.

*************************************************

It's my understanding that "Silencer" was the brand name Maxim used on his invention. These days the Maxim Silencer company builds "silencers" for other products: http://www.maximsilencers.com/

Rather than the original (although he also invented engine silencer/mufflers back then too), back when you could pick them up at hardware stores for a couple dollars.

First Big Foot
January 25, 2011, 02:51 AM
Initial Temperature is 68 F or 528 R Assuming that initial and final pressure are the same, final volume would be equal to T2V1/T1, or 417 x 4120 / 528 = 3254 feet long.


*********************************************
I think three thousand feet of barrel would friction the bullet to death.

unknwn
January 26, 2011, 02:31 PM
Hi: Thanks for the response.
I wasn't planning on screwing one on. I was wondering about these holes in barrels themselves. I have seen Glocks with holes on the top of the last couple inches of barrels, and rifles with slots cut in the sides of the barrels. I wondered if there was any guidance on how to cut, what angles, surface area of forward portions of cuts, that sort of thing. Since I wasn't adding to the barrel any parts, and wasn't so much trying to silence it so much as reducing recoil, I didn't think that was illegal, or even in question.

I have an old 303 Enfield that I was considering cutting up and reducing the weight in several manners, by drilling large holde in the stock, removing a lot of excess steel, and such, and if it gets down to about four pounds I wanted to reduce recoil with slots or holes in the tip of the barrel. I have read of ways to EDM, and also figured it might be just drillable or grindable.

Any input?

First Big Foot. You need to take a look at the CA statues to see if putting a muzzle device on a rifle is legal. It might just be the barrel threads that are forbidden. It might only apply to semi-auto rifles. Threading a barrel and attaching a brake or flash suppressor might make it an "assault rifle".

Wahoo95, I think when FBF says silencers are illegal, he means in the PRK, CA to the rest of us.

Ranb
__________________
Help make silencer use in WA legal by supporting House bill 1604. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...1604&year=2009 Write Judiciary chairman Pedersen and ask him to give the bill a hearing. http://www.leg.wa.gov/house/represen.../pedersen.aspx
The holes and slots you are referring to are recoil "climb" compensator ports.
Nothing to do with quietening the report of a firearm which is what a silencer does.
A suppressor -as in "flash suppressor" is meant to reduce flame front emanating from the barrel.

First Big Foot
January 26, 2011, 04:24 PM
The holes and slots you are referring to are recoil "climb" compensator ports.
Nothing to do with quietening the report of a firearm which is what a silencer does.
A suppressor -as in "flash suppressor" is meant to reduce flame front emanating from the barrel.

OK, somehow this has gotten off track.
My original intention was to make recoil dampening on the rifle barrel so's I could make it lighter and still manage it.
Coincidentally the Maxim thing dampened the recoil, and reduced blast, so I commented that that was nice, but really, all I am trying to do is reduce recoil.
Can I cut slots in a rifle barrel that will do that?

1) I believe they would have to be near the muzzle or the bullet would run out of power.

2) Could the barrel be drilled out just a few thousandths past the rifling and the slots cut beyond where the rifling touches the bullet?

3) Wouldn't that still be part of the barrel?

I want to know if cutting the grooves is just by gosh and by golly.
Is there research for how much surface area for particular rounds counteracts their recoil?
Has anybody out there made a recoil reducer before?
Is drilling out the first inch or two of a barrel anything more than just drilling it out?

macadore
January 26, 2011, 05:51 PM
Has anybody out there made a recoil reducer before?
Is drilling out the first inch or two of a barrel anything more than just drilling it out?

The term you're looking for is muzzle brake. Most of them redirect recoil rather than reducing it. Some I have seen look like they might actually reduce recoil. Search THR for muzzle brake. I would be interested in knowing what people with more experience than me would have to say about this. Why don't you start a thread.

First Big Foot
January 27, 2011, 11:33 AM
(It was suggested I make a new thread. I cannot figure out how to do that.) :confused:

I want to take a .303 Enfield and carve it up to make a hiking/hunting rifle. My original intention was to make recoil dampening on the rifle barrel so's I could make it lighter and still manage it.

Someone showed coincidentally the Maxim thing, and pointed out that it dampened the recoil, and reduced blast, so I commented that that was nice,
:)
but really, all I am trying to do is reduce recoil. I understand that it is illegal to reduce the noise a rifle makes. :cuss: Redirecting it doesn't seem to be illegal.

I have seen Glocks and larger weapons that directed the gases outward and rearward to reduce felt recoil.

1) Can I cut slots in a rifle barrel that will do that?

2) Should they be slanted rearward, or at 90 degrees to the barrel?

3) I believe they would have to be near the muzzle or the bullet would run out of power.

4) Could the barrel be drilled out for an inch or two, just a few thousandths larger than the rifling, and the slots cut beyond where the rifling touches the bullet? (So the bullet does not touch the slots.)

5) Wouldn't that still be part of the barrel? (Since it is still all a part of the same piece.)

6) I want to know if cutting the grooves is just by gosh and by golly. Or:

7) Is there research for how much surface area for particular rounds counteracts their recoil? (Since the gasses push against those forward bits of surface area.)

8) Has anybody out there made a recoil reducer, (muzzle brake), before? And are you then willing to share what you did? :confused:

9) Is drilling out the first inch or two of a barrel anything more than just drilling it out? (I have fractional drills, Letter drills, and a Dremmel.) :eek:

I have looked around, on line and at the gun show, and can find no literature about such construction. :what:

Thanks if you can help.

Woodclaver

Remember: For the properly prepared, Disaster may be mere inconvenience.

UnknownGunMan
January 27, 2011, 06:24 PM
Silencer = Liberal saying "THATS ILLEGAL"

Suppressor = Your shooting buddies saying "Man thats cool"

No difference, two names for the same thing. Silencers both suppress noice and suppress muzzle flash.

GrimmLV
January 28, 2011, 01:43 PM
Frisbee -> Flying Disc

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