Buckshot goes where? Deer


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bigalexe
November 12, 2010, 12:42 AM
My whitetail chasing adventures have been done with a Crossbow, and I don't know anyone that actually uses shot when it comes to killing deer. They all use Rifles, Slugs, or arrow-like projectiles. Personally I have made lung shots on my deer with the crossbow so it was quick and a short track.

So now I am curious, using 00 Buck (12 gauge) to try and kill deer. Where do you shoot the thing and how far away is it expected to be effective? How fast does it work compared to a single projectile through the vitals?

I know birds are head shots, deer the same?

Reason I am asking, Nov. 15 opens up firearm season here. I already killed one with my crossbow this year and I suck with slugs, I am weighing whether or not to take out the shotgun later this year or to take out the crossbow again (crossbows are also guns here in MI).

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Spec ops Grunt
November 12, 2010, 12:47 AM
A lot of states outlaw buckshot for deer. In Oklahoma you must use slugs.


No idea what Michigan laws are, but it would be wise to check.

bigalexe
November 12, 2010, 12:55 AM
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_37141_37706-31578--,00.html

Does not specifically state what you CAN use, but it states that you cannot carry Buckshot/Cut Shells/Slugs afield during non-firearm seasons, or without a license. This I take to mean that you can use it.

Zombiphobia
November 12, 2010, 01:30 AM
00 Buckshot froma 12ga can be effective up to 75 yrds, but is most effective within 25-50 for best effect without worry of wounding or blasting a big hole straight through
Within 50yards, a 00buck load should do in most deer near instantly, dropping them right there, I mean you still have to let them die. This works with aid from the over-loading shock to the nervous system caused by multiple projectile hits, but those large pellets will also hit vitals within that range as well.

There's probably a more technical explanation somewhere.
A broad-side hit is most desired, aiming behind the shoulder as usual, but a neck or head shot will also suffice, assuming a pellet actually hits the brain or severs the vertebrae of the neck.. so a broad-side shot is again, the best choice, I think.

Captcurt
November 12, 2010, 03:05 PM
I have taken a couple of deer with 00. You need to pattern it in your gun and see which choke works best. Modified works well in mine , but I limit my shots to under 60 yards. Shoot for the shoulder.

Better check with a local warden and make sure that buckshot is legal in your state.

rcmodel
November 12, 2010, 03:27 PM
and I suck with slugs,Then you will suck with buckshot too!

If you can't reliably put a slug through a deer, you can't relibly put a 9-pellet buckshot pattern in the kill zone either.

Pattern spread doesn't make up for bad shooting.
Each buckshot pellet that misses just reduces the killing power of the buckshot load by 11%.

rc

bigalexe
November 12, 2010, 04:59 PM
2 3/4" Buckshot and 2 3/4" Saboted Slugs are night and day when it comes to recoil. That is why I suck with slugs. I unfortunately live in shotgun only country when it comes to firearm deer.

Zombiphobia
November 12, 2010, 06:24 PM
regardless of how many posts someone has, a single missed pellet out of a 00 load i not going to reduce your effectiveness that much. Those are some pretty large pellets.30-something caliber??, and the only thing you need to be concerned with when it comes to a single missed pellet is where you're aiming and what's behind your target, but that's basic firearms safety and you should already have considered that.

rcmodel
November 12, 2010, 06:35 PM
2 3/4" Buckshot and 2 3/4" Saboted Slugs are night and day when it comes to recoil. Now you got me curious?

If you shoot those Sabot slugs in a rifled shotgun barrel, it isn't going to work with buckshot.

If you shoot them in a smooth-bore barrel that would work with buckshot, no wonder you can't hit anything with Sabot slugs.

Or do you have two different barrels, one rifled and one smooth-bore?

rc

Zombiphobia
November 12, 2010, 06:44 PM
or use rifled slugs, maybe???

351 WINCHESTER
November 12, 2010, 06:58 PM
When I was a kid a lot of us used buckshot with mixed results. I never cared for it as I lost more deer than I found. Ranges were not over 25 yds. or so. I know of hunters that swear by buckshot, but I gave it up decades ago. I know when I put a rifle bullet thru the vitals of a deer it's a done deal and if not there will be a blood trail.

d2wing
November 12, 2010, 08:38 PM
60 or 75 yards sound like a real long way to kill a deer with shot. I wouldn't try to shoot a bird that far away. I've seen deer take multiple slug hits and still run a long way. But buckshot isn't legal here so I don't know firsthand. Anyone else here just like to post baseless opinions?

bigalexe
November 12, 2010, 08:55 PM
Or do you have two different barrels, one rifled and one smooth-bore?

Yeah I do, it's what marketers call a field/deer combo.

I have not tried rifled slugs in the smooth bore yet, maybe that is worth a shot. My barrel options are 24" Rifled, 28" Smooth (accu-choke), and I got a 24" Smooth (accu-choke) because on my weaker days the 28 is a bit long for me to try and swing around.

So anyway the consensus here seems to be that you shoot broadside, what does that do to the meat?

WalkAbout
November 13, 2010, 12:31 AM
Get a Buck Kicker choke tube. It'll put every pellet in a 3" 00 buck shell in a 15" circle at 40 yards. Just make sure you use copper plated shot when you use it.

b

pbrktrt
November 13, 2010, 11:13 AM
How about a modern muzzleloader? Legal in the shotgun zone and a lot more effective than a shotgun.

smartshot
November 13, 2010, 12:42 PM
I use 12 GA 3in OOO buckshot out of a double barrel and within 100 yards, I don't want to be on the business end of the buckshot, because I've knocked deer down at 80 yards, hitting it with 4 or 5 of the large OOO pellets at that distance. Like the other posts said, make sure your gun holds a nice pattern with whichever gun you use. Some states stipulate that you can use buckshot or slugs. In dense brush hunting, most people prefer buckshot over slugs if your shots will be at running deer less than 40 yards.

Vlad357
November 13, 2010, 01:21 PM
Several years ago I took a nice black tail in WA (on the Ft Lewis military reservation) using my old Springfield model 67 H smooth bore pump 12 gage. One round of OO buck aimed at the front shoulder put it down at about 40yards. I have also taken 6 or 8 white tails with slugs, not real difference. Keep the range fairly close and it will work fine.

Gottahaveone
November 13, 2010, 01:42 PM
regardless of how many posts someone has, a single missed pellet out of a 00 load i not going to reduce your effectiveness that much.

If you had been on here for more than 2 weeks, you might know enough to realize that that particular poster is one of the more knowledgeable folks on the forum. With your 90+ post in 2 weeks, it gives the impression that you talk a lot and listen a little.

RC is right, every pellet that's off deer reduces the effectiveness by lowering the odds that a vital area will be hit. I don''t think he was saying that if you miss with a pellet the bambi will laugh off the other 8, his point was that if you can't consistently place the pattern on target then your problem lies somewhere other than with the effectiveness of buckshot.

00 is no more effective as a "point it in the general direction and kill it" load on deer than it is in a SD scenario.

Water-Man
November 13, 2010, 01:56 PM
Get yourself some Brenneke KO slugs to shoot out of your smoothbore.

bigalexe
November 13, 2010, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the Muzzle-Loader comment and it has been considered. Only reason I am not trying muzzle-loader is because the shotgun is already in my possession and the muzzle-loader is not. One of my rules is no more toys until I make use of the toys I have.

Also the bank has a rule too, no more toys until you have a sufficient balance in your account to pay for it.

Also to put this small personal quarrel to rest. RC is one person I will definitely listen to on this forum, also Dave in shotguns. You sir, the new guy that is afraid of a zombie outbreak... more can be accomplished in hours of silence than in days of talking.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
November 13, 2010, 02:35 PM
bigalexe, Do you have the rifled barrel for the slugs scoped or do you use the rifle sights on the barrel when trying the slugs. Also, what brands of slugs have you tried? I live in a shotgun only state (hate it) and have a good bit of experience with this. As far as Buck shot, I kind of hate the stuff because of penetration. It is just too inconsistent for my pleasure. My suggestion would be to scope that rifled barrel and try some different slug brands to find the one your weapon likes. My Mossburg setup loves the 2 3/4 lightfield slugs but wouldn't hold minute of mile with several others. Rifled barrels for shotguns are actually more picky than rifles for some reason. There are several options for scoping shotguns depending on what brand of SG you have. I would avoid the "saddle" type mounts as they are a bit on the shady side for consistency. If your rifled barrel is cantilevered for a scope that is the best option. If not, MOST have the receiver drilled and tapped nowadays. My Mossburg 500 that I have as a dedicated deer slug gun has a drilled and tapped receiver and I scoped it that way. Pain in the butt for switching it up to smoothbore but that is what the 870 is for :)

stonecoldy
November 13, 2010, 03:27 PM
bigalexe, my current Ohio deer getter rig:
Remington 870 Express 12 gauge, 21" turkey barrel with a modified choke (no rifling). Shoots Remington 1 oz. Sluggers into a into clover-leaf patterns at 50 yards off a rest. The main area I hunt is so thick, you would be hard-pressed to get a shot much further. I had tinkered around with different slugs for accuracy first with the IC tube installed, tried the Modified choke tube on a whim and found accuracy improved a decent amount to stay with it. This is a scoped gun with a side-mount scope mount that utilizes the receiver trigger pin holes.
Now's a great time to pick up slugs at good prices and rebates to boot. After rebates from Federal and Gander Mountain a couple weeks ago, paid $1.00 a box for Federal Tru-balls. This 870 also likes the Federal 1 oz. Tru-ball 12 gauge loads. Doesn't like Winchester.
I have no hunting experience with buckshot on deer but have been satisfied with slugs. Most were pass-through and the few slugs recovered are seemingly as big as a 50 cent piece in diameter.

desidog
November 14, 2010, 11:24 AM
15-20 years ago, I shot a buck broadside at about 20 yards with 00buckshot. It knocked him over. Then he got up and ran away. Never recovered him; still feel bad about it. Never used buckshot after that...

For a smooth bore barrel, I've had great accuracy with the Remington Reduced Recoil 12 ga rifled slugs. They've always passed-through for me...leaving a large exit wound and a very dead deer.

rbernie
November 14, 2010, 11:59 AM
2 3/4" Buckshot and 2 3/4" Saboted Slugs are night and day when it comes to recoilI have found that most buckshot (other than the reduced recoil LE buck) recoils HARDER than a standard 12ga slug. How much have you shot 2 3/4 1oz slugs, to see how they work for you?

Another option, if you want to try to stay with slugs, is the LE (low recoil) 7/8oz slugs from Federal or Fiocci.

Daniel Boone
November 14, 2010, 12:57 PM
Not that this is my cup of tea, but the military used buck shot for years.
I have some brass shells that my Uncle gave to me from when he was in the Army - MP - back in the late 50's that were loaded with buck shot.

My opinion is that anything will kill a deer.
It all depends on the amount of effort you are willing to put into hunting.

A archer would not think of just buying a plain old recurve bow and some plain old wood shaft arrows and some field tips sharpened - to the point of being like a bullet at the end of the shaft.
They would go to a store and buy the best bow and the best arrows and the best broadheads and a sight and a quiver and all the tools necessary to get the job done.

So why would someone subject themselves to the recoil of a shotgun with no sights and sabot slugs - without first putting a little effort into it.

Now I did not read your post good enough to read which make and model shotgun you are using. But if it was me and I wanted to shoot a deer - I would go to a gun shop and I would pay a gunsmith to put a slug barrel on my shotgun and I would pay for scope mounts and some good quality optics to sit on top of my shotgun.

Then I would buy multiple boxes of slugs and go out and pattern my shotgun at 50 / 75 and 100 yards until I found the slug that shot best.
I would then go back to the same store where I bought the origional slugs and buy 10 boxes - because I would know that as long as they were of the same lot number that as long as I kept the scope on the shotgun - the point of aim would not change and I would not have to keep spending money every year on more slugs and spending countless hours trying to sight in my shotgun from season to season.

You cannot pattern buckshot.
I don't care how hard you try - every shot is going to hit slightly different.
It is a crap shoot - like buying a lottery ticket, some times you will hit the jackpot, sometimes you will win a free ticket and sometimes you won't win anything at all.

With a slug - you know you have a much better chance of hitting something and hitting it with enough force to make a good clean ethical kill on any game animal.

Me personally I stink with a shotgun and slugs and no sights.
I have tried it and I have yet to kill anything with it - because I always had it in my head that it was going to drop like a rock and so I would shoot over the heads of the deer and never hit anything - even though all I had to do was aim in the middle of the deer - along side it's front shoulders and I probably would have killed every deer I ever saw with one.

Since not all states allows rifles for deer hunting - this is the best advice that I can give to you.
Hunting is a lot like sex - if it isn't any fun, then you aren't going to want to do it. To do it right, you have to be with the person / gun - that you want to be with. If you have no confidence in slugs - then they are never going to work for you.

If I never read a book written by Jack O'Connor or an article written in a hunting or gun magazine - I would believe that any gun could kill a deer and all you had to do was aim directly at it - at any range and it would fall down dead - and more times then not - I would be right.

I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope you have a enjoyable hunting season - with what ever you decide to use.

Todd1700
November 14, 2010, 07:00 PM
Wow. Lot of varied opinions here. I used buckshot back in the days when most people around here hunted deer with dogs. Here is what I can tell you.

1. Pattern your shotgun to see what it's doing. Yes you can pattern it. It's not just a matter of how far a buckshot pellet is lethal. It's also a matter of how far it will hold a dense pattern. Try different chokes and loads because you will see big differences in various combos.

2. Despite wild claims of long kills you better keep your shot's inside 45 yards. Buckshot is very lethal at close range but runs out of steam fast.

I killed a lot of deer with it back in the day. It's nothing fancy but it works. Most deer lost using buckshot are typically due to shot's taken at too long a distance or by people hitting the woods without ever test firing a single shell to see how their guns pattern it.

Yarddog
November 14, 2010, 07:20 PM
Wow. Lot of varied opinions here. I used buckshot back in the days when most people around here hunted deer with dogs. Here is what I can tell you.

1. Pattern your shotgun to see what it's doing. Yes you can pattern it. It's not just a matter of how far a buckshot pellet is lethal. It's also a matter of how far it will hold a dense pattern. Try different chokes and loads because you will see big differences in various combos.

2. Despite wild claims of long kills you better keep your shot's inside 45 yards. Buckshot is very lethal at close range but runs out of steam fast. .

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Bingo This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Y/D

Stumpknocker
November 14, 2010, 07:44 PM
There's a company called DixieSlugs that makes a 3-ball buckshot round:

From their website (http://www.dixieslugs.com/):
What is Tri-Ball 3"?
Tri-Ball 3" is a development at Dixie Slugs for 12 ga. 3" Magnum! It has 3-.600" hard alloy cast round balls/buckshot, gives a velocity of 1050+/-'/". It is classed a buckshot, albeit very large buckshot. The three balls/buckshot will pattern 3 1/2" (center to center) at 25 yards and still be well within the kill zone at 40 yards or beyond, depending on the choke. There is no load like it anywhere! It is designed for smoothbore barrels with choke diameters from .685"/ .690" (avg. Full Choke) and under, however it will work well in the Trulock .660"/Remington Turkey (.665") choke tubes. It has been reported that a .675"choke seems to be ideal. These choke tubes will produce an average of 6" pattern (or less) with the three balls at 40 yards. It is legal in buckshot only areas.

Doc/John
December 9, 2010, 03:33 PM
I have used both with equal success....Got one last season on a dead run at 65 yards with buckshot.

Generally, 75 yards is about the shot max to try. You should have about a 15 to 20 inch kill circle at 60 yards.

The thing about buckshot is that unless you are really close, there is little to no blood trail; however, if it is a good shot, they generally don't go more than 50 yards.

.45Guy
December 9, 2010, 04:33 PM
Buckshot has always worked well for me, however my circumstances are a bit different. When filling nuisance tags, and knowing where they bed, ranges are kept to a minimum. (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=465525)

shaggy430
December 9, 2010, 06:07 PM
We have a special shotgun only WMA hunt close to where I live in TN that I try to get drawn for every year. I use an 870 with a modified choke and a B-Square scope mount with rifled slugs and I can get 3 shots touching at 50 yards. That's plenty accurate for me. I don't feel the need for a rifled barrel with that kind of accuracy.

Here are some examples of a saddle mount. They are well worth the money and can be taken off and on in about a minute.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=10&categoryId=14069&categoryString=657***8705***11683***

FLAvalanche
December 10, 2010, 02:43 PM
Hunting is a lot like sex

Bullcrap!

I've passed up on sex for other things many times. I've never passed up on hunting...

:)

Myles
December 10, 2010, 08:10 PM
I've used #4 Buck within 40 yards and been happy with it. Then again, if it's longer than that, you should have a rifle or swap in a slug.

HOOfan_1
December 11, 2010, 12:25 AM
I use 12 gauge 3 inch magnum #1 buck, shot two with it. One at about 40 yards, the other at about 60. Aimed at the same vital zone I would have with a rifle. Never lost a deer shooting it with buckshot, neither deer made it more than 15 yards before falling down dead.

Isn't it interesting that some states expressly forbid buckshot, while in some localities, buckshot is the only legal method for shooting a deer with a firearm? Someone making the rules in one of those localities has to be wrong.

shawnbeachside
February 6, 2011, 05:51 PM
A 12 gauge shotgun is a great deer gun. Preparation is the key to success. If you want to shoot slugs thru the rifled barrel it is imperative that you try several variations, several manufacturers make slugs (sabot or not) in different weights, and at different velocities. In most cases they will all group differently out of the same gun! Pick one that works for you, usually energy is sufficient to kill a deer out to 125 yds, hitting it is the hard part. Pick a lighter weight slug at lower velocity for less recoil.

If you decide to go with buckshot you MUST pattern your gun with various sizes and brands of shot, and with different chokes! I.E. my remington 1100 shoots 2 3/4 inch federal premium, which are 9 copper plated and use the flight control wad, into a pattern approximately 20 inches at 40 yards. The same gun and barrel shoots winchester , unplated and no wad cup, into a 38-40 inch group at the same distance. I also get better performance with large shot out of a imp. cyl. choke than full.

Pattern your gun and keep in mind that buckshot pellets are lightweight and loose their energy quickly. 50 yards is the farthest I would try a shot on a deer with it.

oklahoma caveman
February 7, 2011, 09:07 PM
Daniel Boone psoted A archer would not think of just buying a plain old recurve bow and some plain old wood shaft arrows

I did. I hunt with a plain ole recurve bow and sometimes plain ole wood/cane shafts. And it works for me.

Now back on topic...

Listen to the folks that are telling you to pattern the buckshot and keep your shots under 40 yards. Yes it can work at longer ranges, but the odds of a quick clean kill go down at the longer ranges. If you do not want to wait till they are archery close then use slugs and find a load that you can shoot accurately

CoastieShep
February 7, 2011, 10:45 PM
00 buck from a 12ga? Won't that blow the deer through a sliding glass door and over a balcony? Or through the door, across the hallway?:evil:
Sorry, had to post it. I have no experience with buckshot, so I find this thread interesting.

Dutterer
February 7, 2011, 11:06 PM
... I've never heard a parallel like "hunting is a lot like sex"...

Very impressive logic! :)

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