Is the P-3AT killing P-32 resale value?


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Dave R
December 20, 2003, 04:12 PM
I have a P-32. I want a P-3AT. Makes sense to trade/sell the one for the other. But will I get killed on resale value if "nobody wants P-32's any more?"

Anybody have any feel for this burning economic issue?

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hnm201
December 20, 2003, 05:04 PM
Yes, it's killing the P-32's resale value, not that it had it much to begin with. The P-3ATs that make it to Louisville don't stay in the shops for long, except at the stores that are marking them up to $329 and then "discounting" them to 289.99. One local shop (the BEST lccal shop, as Kentucky Rifle will attest to) sells them for 249.99 NIB.

Here's a idea - hold out for the P3AT at $250 or less NIB or get a deal on a used P3AT (plenty of people are going to try them and be quickly dissillusioned with the recoil, or freak out when they learn that it doesn't have a slide stop, or that the slide is too hard them to rack). After all, the P3AT is still a BUG. I can understand if you carry another .380 auto as your primary, but still the P3AT is going to always be a BUG because you simply can't fight with like you can a larger pistol. At least, not IMHO, unless you train, train, train with it and even then you'd have to be some kind of super freak ninja to *count* on being able to make it keep much more than one attacker off of you. And personally, I don't have time to train as much as I would like. My point here is that the P-32 or a P-3AT shouldn't be bearing the burden of being your primary self defense pistol. If it is, then buy a primary and then later buy a P3AT. So, being as either gun is BUG at the most, you should be able to take your time and buy a P3AT when the prices are right (200 or less, I think).

The P-32 just isn't worth selling. If your P-32 works - keep it. If it doesn't, send it back to Kel-Tec and they will make it work (mine had to go back to the factory). But don't ever sell it, even if you plan to buy a P3AT. You can't have too many guns, mouse or otherwise.

Of course, this is all just my justification for the self-restraint that I exercised when I passed by the P3AT at $249.95 NIB last week. My P-32 backs up my mighty deadly Makarov (in 9x18, not .380).

You didn't ask for any of these opinions. I've just had to much coffee and too little sleep.

R-Tex12
December 20, 2003, 05:08 PM
IMHO, it would be real dang hard to improve on domzilla9's answer.

Rick

Mike Irwin
December 20, 2003, 06:45 PM
Mtnbkr saw a P3-AT, used, at a local gun shop for $199.

ChickenHawk
December 21, 2003, 12:21 AM
I saw some P32's at today's gun show in Austin, and I commented that they must be hard to sell now. The guy told me he still sells a ton of them.

Funny thing really is that he was so over-priced I saw some P3AT's at the same show for the same price.

Go figure.

ChickenHawk

Tamara
December 21, 2003, 11:47 AM
Funny thing really is that he was so over-priced I saw some P3AT's at the same show for the same price.

That may be because wholesale cost on the guns is about the same. ;)

hnm201
December 21, 2003, 12:14 PM
That may be because wholesale cost on the guns is about the same.

LOL! Which is the same wholesale cost as the Kel-Tec P-11, isn't it? You've got to give it for Kel-Tec CNC, Inc. They're egalitarian if nothing else!

As for dealers selling the same "budget market" firearm at a show for 10% to 30% more than other dealers at the same show. If they are actually moving product, it's because they have found a niche selling the product in question to buyers who don't like to pay too little for their firearms.

That's right. Some people don't like to pay too little and sometimes don't mind paying too much. And the really strange thing is that these buyers are not always affluent. They just don't want to buy a "cheap" firearm.

This is true of a lot of markets, not just firearms. I can give you an example from a "used" market. I deal in rare and old and unusual books. I can tell you that it's a lot easier to move books priced above $500 (or better yet, $1,000) than it is to sell $20 books. The "nether region" is ~$150. Too close to 150 and it could go either way. If I get a lot of people calling in on a book priced at $150 and they are trying to haggle me down to below $100, I usually mark the book up to $200 and it sells straight through right away. The calls and the haggling tell me that I have the book priced to low and resellers are trying to pick it up and flip it for a quick 100% markup. The buyers at $200 are almost always "premium buyers" who prefer paying a premium because they think that if they pay a bargain price that they are getting less value. I swear I think I could put two gently used and nearly identical but difficult to find art books on a table, with one priced at twice the amount of the other, and there are some people who would ONLY want the more expensive book.

Of course, with the P-32 and P-3ATs we're talking about pure commodities with no collector value. Still, this product probably appeals to a lot of folks who own a lot of very expensive firearms and just aren't used to buying guns that cost less than $300.

And then, it could be that the dealer who has the P-32's market sky high could be a haggler friendly, and could use the P-32 to sweeten the pot on more expensive firearms (buy this one for $1000 and I'll throw a P-32 below cost!). Or, you know, something like, "P-32s for $289.99 and a free pocket holster!" Deals, deals, deals.

The bottom line is that *things*, including guns, have no inherent value what-so-ever! Whenever people ask me what a book or gun is "worth", I always tell them it's worth exactly what someone is willing to pay them for it, and not a penny more. That is, of course, unless they are paying for a letter of appraisal.

I'm jacked up on nescafe. Again.

Sven
December 21, 2003, 02:58 PM
Get ready to either laugh and/or fall off your chair:

P32s fetch $350-550 here in CA, if/when you can find one for sale.
P-3ATs are unavailable entirely.

Kel-Tec refuses to submit to California DOJ's testing requirements - not sure the P32 would even pass as it doesn't have a slide lock or other 'safety features'.

hnm201
December 21, 2003, 03:02 PM
A slide lock is a "safety feature"?

Good grief!

denfoote
December 21, 2003, 04:27 PM
I have both!!
I'm not getting rid of my P32!!
I happen to like it!! :D

Mike Irwin
December 21, 2003, 06:16 PM
I saw several NIB P3ATs at the Bealeton gunshow today in Northern Virginia for $219.

Redlg155
December 21, 2003, 06:23 PM
Ever since the P3 came on the market I've been expecting to see a mass exodus of P32 owners ditching their little autos and going to the P3.

What I've pretty much seen is that P32 folks are keeping their little autos while waiting for the final verdict on the new model. Either that or purchasing one outright instead of eating a loss on the P32 resale. For right now things sound pretty good. They don't seem to be having as many reported troubles as the P32s.

I still don't quite trust them enough to get one. The seem a bit flimsy for a .380.

Good Shooting
Red

ChickenHawk
December 21, 2003, 06:25 PM
Best P3AT price I saw at the Austin show was $220.00 and worst was $245.00

ChickenHawk

ChickenHawk
December 21, 2003, 06:34 PM
Oh, I keep forgetting to ask ... what does RE-SALE value mean, anyway? I don't get the concept.

Please don't tell me some people actually part with some of their guns once they've taken them home! What are they thinking??? :what:

:neener:

ChickenHawk

Mannlicher
December 21, 2003, 08:44 PM
I cant understand anyone wanting a new P-32, let alone a used one.

Majic
December 21, 2003, 10:07 PM
Unless funds are tight, keep the P-32 and buy the other. You won't get much on a resale or trade-in as it never was a very expensive model.

gbelleh
December 21, 2003, 10:40 PM
I have a P-32 and plan to soon get a P-3AT, but when I do, I'll keep the P-32 (you can never have too many guns, right?)

Probably wouldn't get that much for the .32 anyway, it seems better to just keep it (unless, of course, a buyer comes along who wants to give me $550 for it!).

Dave R
December 21, 2003, 10:53 PM
Clarification. Funds are tight. I have "primary" carry guns, and don't feel the need for two backups. This is a backup.

And its another caliber. I'm gonna start reloading .380, and don't want to buy dies and a different powder for .32...

Haven't fully decided yet, but leaning toward trading it in.

OTOH, my -32 _is_ a nice, reliable individual and I'm happy with the way I shoot it.

OTOH, if I had a -3AT, how often would I shoot a .32? And a gun you never shoot is just a waste of safe space, IMHO.

gbelleh
December 21, 2003, 11:03 PM
And a gun you never shoot is just a waste of safe space, IMHO.

How much safe space can a P-32 take up? :D

If you don't think you need it/wouldn't miss it, go ahead and trade it.

dsk
December 22, 2003, 12:12 AM
Of those with both guns, what is the difference in felt recoil? In a tiny lifesaver like these, the ability to shoot fast and well could be a key difference.

Majic
December 22, 2003, 12:25 AM
Well it's better to sell it than trade it. You will get next to nothing for it in a trade. You could recoup some of your investments if you sell.

Bren
December 22, 2003, 01:23 AM
I only bought a Kel-tec because the 380 was the same size and price as the 32. We've sold 380's and no one has been interested in the 32 which now collects dust. You may want to give the 32 to the spouse or something if you chose to go .380.

I may be going through the same thing you are when they come out with a better, smaller 9mm. :p Until then, the 3-AT is a perfect back up belly gun. Bren

hnm201
December 22, 2003, 09:36 AM
Of those with both guns, what is the difference in felt recoil? In a tiny lifesaver like these, the ability to shoot fast and well could be a key difference
The difference in recoil between the .32 and the .380 on this frame is considerable.

Why would anyone want to buy a P-32? Because they work and they are inexpensive and easy to carry as back up. Higher priced competitors in the same size(as close as they come)/caliber don't offer much more.

cpileri
December 22, 2003, 10:11 AM
maybe , maybe not...
but I just like the idea from a collectors standpoint of the little 32acp 7 ounce package.
As soon as i see one, i.e. soon as I move to a free state in a few months!, for a reasonable (under 250 new) price- I' buying it without hesitation.
C-

ranger7
December 22, 2003, 10:42 AM
I sold one of my P-32s when I bought two P-3ATs. I had problems with both P-3ATs which were never completely corrected. Kel Tec bought one of my P-3ATs back and the other waits for a possible fix.

In the meantime, I'm on a waiting list for a used P-32 at my local dealer's. (He gets a few used P-32s in and they sell almost immediately.)

Alan

MLH
December 22, 2003, 10:59 AM
Would this shop be on Fern Valley Road? If not please tell where it's at as I haven't hit every shop and would like to know if there is any other good ones out there.;)

hnm201
December 22, 2003, 11:04 AM
That's the one. Tilford's. I saw a NIB P3AT in there for $249.95. He's got the best prices in town, period. Well, the best prices after Biff's. But Biff's is not just a gun shop.... it's a cultural exposition. :D

TarpleyG
December 22, 2003, 11:58 AM
Kel-Tec refuses to submit to California DOJ's testing requirements
Good for them. Maybe when stuff stops getting sent into KA, people will wake up and get rid of those clowns in Excrememto for some proper politicians.

Mark my words, it won't stop with guns. Hell, I remember when paint started being required to be CA compliant, then cars, etc. When does it stop. CA cannot be the benchmark, else we're all doomed!

GT

JShirley
December 23, 2003, 03:32 PM
Well, I bought a used P-32 last month, so I could retire Kate (SN 1XX) to the safe. I now have a P-3AT, as well, but I still usually carry the 32. (Partially because I have a good kydex holster for the 32, and partially because I shoot the 32 well. Haven't shot the P-3AT enough, yet.)

The P-32 is just a nifty little piece, and if its primary mission is backup instead of deep cover, I don't see the caliber difference as being that big a deal. OTOH, if you only carry the little KT's, a P-3AT upgrade might be a good idea.

John

Beer for my Horses
December 23, 2003, 04:50 PM
I got lucky on my recent visit to Utah, bought a P3AT at Van Wagenens in Orem Utah for $195. That store simply can't be beat. Love the gun and I'm afraid it will hurt sales/resell for the P-32. Maybe you can learn to shoot left handed and use it to back up your back up P 3AT. . . . <g> :D However, when it's too hot here in AZ or I have business dress that only allows pocket carry, I carry my P3AT as my primary; not my preferred choice, just reality.

mini14jac
December 24, 2003, 08:41 AM
At least, not IMHO, unless you train, train, train with it and even then you'd have to be some kind of super freak ninja to *count* on being able to make it keep much more than one attacker off of you.

:confused: :confused:

And what's with the statement about carrying one as a backup to another .380. ???

Have you ever shot a P3AT?

Here are a few facts, if you are interested:
1. My P3AT is more accurate than either of the P32s we own.
2. My gun has worked 100% with all modern ammunition that I have fired in it. No jams, no problems, no failures.
3. Recoil is significantly more than a P32.
4. Because of recoil and slide racking strength required for the P3AT, the P32 is a better gun for small females, and the elderly.

If I could pick any .380 available, I would choose the P3AT.
(That's exactly what I did.)
The only reliable .380 in this price range is the Bersa, and it nowhere near as concealable.
The P3AT conceals and carries as easily as the P32 but shoots a bigger bullet.

It is not a gun for everyone.

Jus because you can't afford one, is no reason to badmouth them. :fire:

You need to realize that the .32 acp and the .380 acp are both minimum calibers for self defense, no matter what gun you shoot them in.
If you ever need one, you should count on emptying the gun, then running.
I frequently carry the P3AT as my only gun, but when at all possible, I carry a 9 or .45.

Here in East Tennessee, new P32s go for around $229.
P3ATs go for $20 - 50 higher.
An honest dealer will give you $150 trade-in on a P32.
If you wanted to trade the P32 in for a Glock back in January, the trade-in value would have been the same.

For ease of use, shootabilty, size, and weight, the P32 can't be beat.
There probably will be a good market in used P3ATs, for the reasons mentioned in a previous post, but the value of used P32s has remained stable around here.

hnm201
December 24, 2003, 10:08 AM
Mini14jac,

Please reread my post when you're awake. I am a big fan of the P-32 and the P3AT. So, you would put the P3AT's overall usability and defensive capablility on par with a larger pistol chambered in .380, like a Bersa or a Makarov? If you can hit as well with your P3AT as a with one of these larger guns (at Bayonet distance, at 7 yards and beyond), then I applaud you and I think that you have some exceptional talent with your P3AT. I believe you mentioned what I think is the critical difference in usability between the P-32 and the P-3AT...recoil.

commygun
December 24, 2003, 02:10 PM
Olequa Arms here just sold 50 P-32's for $169 each in less than a week
(including my second one:) ). I was thinking of getting a P3AT but when
I saw the price on these P-32's I figured the difference in performance
didn't justify the difference in price (I haven't seen a P-3AT around here
for much under $300).

ranger7
December 24, 2003, 06:31 PM
(Quote)
Please reread my post when you're awake. I am a big fan of the P-32 and the P3AT. So, you would put the P3AT's overall usability and defensive capablility on par with a larger pistol chambered in .380, like a Bersa or a Makarov? If you can hit as well with your P3AT as a with one of these larger guns (at Bayonet distance, at 7 yards and beyond), then I applaud you and I think that you have some exceptional talent with your P3AT. I believe you mentioned what I think is the critical difference in usability between the P-32 and the P-3AT...recoil.
(Unquote)

Because the P-3AT pushes performance/user (un)friendliness envelopes futher, I'm afraid it may not be as relaible under adverse (real-world) conditions where you may be running/dodging/falling or you may be injured or have you shooting hand covered with something wet or slippery (like blood).

On one of the Kel Tec lists a poster had valid (IMHO) concerns about the useability of the P-3AT if he had to loan it (in an emergency) to a family member who wasn't the primary P-3AT shooter. (One of the reasons some carry a B.U.G. is to arm a friend or family member in an emergency.) Semi-autos are inherently more subject to things like limp-wristing failures. The smaller and lighter they get , for a given caliber, the less reliable they may be. Of course if reliabilty outweighs almost everything else, it may be better to carry a revolver as a backup.

I don't carry a P-3AT I own until I can feel comfortable about the above mentioned issues. I carry the P-32 instead.

Alan

__________________

Glamdring
December 24, 2003, 06:57 PM
Why are people saying the P32/P3at doesn't have a slide lock? They do, gun will lock open when last round is fired.

They just don't have an external lever for the slide lock, to apply it manually you have to reach in thru action with finger.

To release you just slide to rear (ie slingshot method).

I believe Walther PP's are the same.

ranger7
December 24, 2003, 07:12 PM
The P-32 has the non-external slidelock activated by the mag follower. The P-3AT has NO slidelock at all. If you don't count your rounds, the only indication you get, that the last rond was your last, is the click.

Alan

hnm201
December 24, 2003, 09:40 PM
Glamdring, if you or anyone else in this world has a P3AT with a slidelock, then I am a monkey's uncle.

No one said that the P32 didn't have a slide lock. At least, not in this thread.

This is a great way to mess with the gun store staff. "Hey, the P3AT is broken! The slide doesn't lock open when the slide is pulled to the rear when there is no mag in the gun! What kinda junk are you selling here!"

A good number of the people selling the P3AT in Louisville that I have talked to don't know that gun doesn't have a slide lock. Therefore they don't educate their customers and many customers can't be bothered to educate themselves. Therefore they freak out when the slide doesn't lock open at the range, a state of excitement that is exacerbated by their unpleasant discovery that "OMG, this thing RECOILs more than a P-32 does!!!". Therefore I expect to see used P3ATs on the market as soon as spring gets here and people get out shooting their christmas presents. Meanwhile, I am in the market for a second used P-32 and I will pay top dollar! ($100 inc shipping). LOL.

As for the fellow who reminded us all that .380 is the "minimum caliber for self-defense", I think that this is a wonderful belief to have. I think that everyone should have strong beliefs, especially in this day and age. Personally, I get by believing that the minimum self defense caliber is the one that comes out a gun that I can use to most easily use to to place multiple expanding metal projectiles (above 70 gr in weight and traveling faster than 900 fps at the muzzle, always preferring larger and faster projectiles) in the center of mass of a man sized target that is dodging while advancing on me. The only caveat is that it must be both easy and convenient for me to conceal and carry the gun on my person in my daily routine and with my normal dress.

denfoote
December 25, 2003, 02:29 AM
Therefore I expect to see used P3ATs on the market as soon as spring gets here and people get out shooting their christmas presents

How do you think I got mine?? :D
Guy buys P3AT for wife. Everything goes smoothly...until she tries to rack the slide!!! :evil:

JShirley
December 25, 2003, 04:01 AM
Guy,
Dom's right. P-32 has slide stop; P-3AT does not.

Oracle
December 25, 2003, 10:02 AM
I don't really see that I have much use for the P-3AT. I mean, it is a nice gun, but I don't really expect .380's to expand coming out of it, so that basically means I'm looking at a slightly heavier, slightly bigger FMJ bullet than my P-32. At that point, only one thing matters: penetration to disrupt vital structures, and I belive that the .32 does a little bit better job at penetrating than the .380 does. So, I'm keeping my P-32. I'd like to pick up a few more P-32's, actually, but I'm not really interested in buying a P-3AT.

dkochan
December 28, 2003, 11:34 AM
I plan on trading my P32 for another P-3AT because I experienced rim lock one day when shooting at the local gun range. Rim lock took several minutes to clear. I also prefer a .380 because it is more powerful than a .32.

P32's were selling for $219 and the P-3AT's were selling for $235 at the local gun show.

Majic
December 28, 2003, 11:48 AM
oops......foot was in mouth.

dkochan
December 28, 2003, 12:00 PM
Majic,

The .32 ACP is a semi-rimmed case. Check out the following link for more information.

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm

ksnecktieman
December 28, 2003, 12:51 PM
I read an article about the size and reliabilty of the P32, and decided I needed to caress one. At the next gun show, I did, and it stuck to my hand and came home with me (yes, paperwork and waiting period, but you understand). I got the belt clip, and was very happy. Next I read an article about the P11, 9mm, and yes, I had to have it too, also with a belt clip. Now the P3AT, and the gun show two weeks ago did not have one:mad: .
I will get one when I find it, I have no doubt.

Now for the scary part, Kel-tec is a very dependable firearm, their service is outstanding ( I did have a spring break in my P32, they overnighted one to me at no charge, with no BS:D ).

The company is very innovative. How soon do we expect a truly light and reliable .45 from them. I can not afford any more firearms, I wonder if I can sue them for driving me towards bankruptcy by making so many affordable firearms, and selling them to us so cheap? :confused:

I am sorry to hear that the P3AT does not have a slide lock, I do prefer to lock a slide open when I prepare to clean guns, and a few other occasions, as well.

matsaleh
December 28, 2003, 05:35 PM
I just went to the Kel-Tec site. They had a "Downloads" section, but they didn't have a way for me to download a P3AT. Doggone-it. I feel gypped!

ranger7
December 28, 2003, 06:08 PM
ksnecktieman wrote:
-snip-
The company is very innovative. How soon do we expect a truly light and reliable .45 from them. I can not afford any more firearms, I wonder if I can sue them for driving me towards bankruptcy by making so many affordable firearms, and selling them to us so cheap?
-snip-

Apparently George Kelgren, owner of Kel Tec was asked about a .45 handgun a year or two ago and he reportedly said there wouldn't be any .45s. There was a more recent rumor from someone who toured the Kel Tec plant that they had lots of .45 ammo stockpiled, so maybe they are devloping something.

Actually I would prefer a .45 rifle from Kel Tec, like the Sub-2000 maybe. There is already a very nice .45 ACP pistol very similar in size and price to Kel Tecs. It's called a Cobra Patriot 45. (Some knowledgeable gunsmiths I know say the design of the Patriot 45 is superior to Kel Tec's pistols.) They can be had typically for $200-$250. Unfortunately they have no slide lock (like the P-3AT).

Alan

hnm201
December 28, 2003, 06:19 PM
Actually I would prefer a .45 rifle from Kel Tec, like the Sub-2000 maybe.

Roger that! A folding stock sub carbine in .45 that took 1911 magazines! A nice companion for your full size 1911 to put in the trunk of your car!

I am not a huge fan of sub-cabliber long arms but I do own a Keltec Sub 2000 in 9mm. It's a hoot! Doesn't miss a lick and uses my hi-cap Glock 17 mags that I've hoarded from the days of my Glock Love.

I don't think I would like it so much if it didn't fold. I'll probably buy a Kel-Tec SU-16 when available in my area and it will be my first .223 ever.

mini14jac
December 29, 2003, 08:09 AM
Shortly after the P11 came out, I called KelTec and asked about a single stack .380.
The person on the phone said they had no plans to make one at that time.

Aren't we glad plans change! :D

JMag
January 10, 2004, 06:24 PM
Quote by :Mannlicher
Senior Member

"I cant understand anyone wanting a new P-32, let alone a used one."

What would you say to hearing John Moses Browning carried his .32 Auto until the day he died? Carry what you like, I prefer the .32 to the .380 as I believe penetration is generally better and that is a big deal in a mouse gun.

DrDremel
January 10, 2004, 08:52 PM
Well after years of thinking that the J frame .38 was as small as a person should go, and looking at the track record of what looked like a junky little .32. I bought one yesterday. I bought it as an always gun, for whan a J frame .38 is too big. The .32 is good for this and when you need something extremely light. The difference between the .32 and .380 model was not a lot of weight but the slide was not easy to rack under stress for the .380. Couple that with the recoil from the little thing and I actually prefer the .32. My dealer friend had the .32 for $220 out the door and the .380 for $225 out the door. THe weight difference when loaded is enough to make a difference. The .32 will work in some shirt pockets including the 5.11 royal Robbins shirt. The .380 with the little extra weight starts looking like I have a "Man-Boob". I also think the .380 may not be as durable with the increased recoil. The .32 is light enough that you don't need the same amount of practice. The .380 will take more practice for proficiency. I think they got it right with the .32 and the .380 is on the edge of being not practical. If I am going to carry a .380, I'll take my Colt.

ranger7
January 10, 2004, 09:19 PM
DrDremel, not sure I agree that the weight difference is much of a factor. According the the Kel Tec website there's only 0.6 oz difference between the two pistols with loaded magazines.

I do agree that at least for me, the P-32 is a better carry gun. One additional factor besides the difficulty of racking the P-3AT slide under stress is the increased likelyhood that you may have "limpwrist" failures under stress or when injured. In real world self-defence all kinds of things can make it a less than ideal scenario.

I want a gun that's most likely to fire all its loaded rounds under adverse conditions. I'd rather end up with 8 or 9 rounds of .32ACP (without reloading) than what may turn out to be a single shot of .380.

Others may wish to take their chances on the more powerful (and more risky) P-3AT. That doesn't necessarily make them wrong. "Different strokes, for different folks."

Alan

Idaho
January 11, 2004, 04:45 PM
Just yesterday I traded my P32 for a 3AT. The first dealer I visited had the 3AT listed at $249. He offered to trade the 3AT for the P32 with belt clip, spare mag, 2 boxes ammo, and $100. Second dealer I visited had a 3AT listed at $265, and offered to trade the 3AT for the P32 + $100. Though he had no 3AT mags in stock, he offered to trade even up for the spare P32 mag when one came in.

I took it to the range, and found that it was difficult, and sometimes painful to shoot with my usual two-handed weaver stance. Oddly, I found it much easier to shoot well with one hand, left or right. I have very large hands, and when I tried to adopt a two handed grip, using my finger tip to pull the trigger, the gun's recoil caused the inside bottom of the trigger guard to snap against my trigger finger. When I shot one handed, I found I could not use the tip of my finger effectively to pull the trigger, so I just stuck my finger through the guard and pulled with the portion of my finger at the bend of my second knuckle, and while I know this is "unconventional" I actually was able to get fairly tidy groups at 7 yards with controlled fire.

Personally, while the slide is certainly stiffer than the P32 I never found it difficult to operate. As for operating the slide under stress, since I carry with one in the pipe, I don't anticipate this being a problem.

I like the extra foot pounds of energy from the 3AT, and it is worth the minor downsides compared to the P32, for me. It is mostly a backup, though it also will serve as an "always" for when my attire or the circumstances do not easily allow carry of my full-size. Any mouse gun involves compromises, and I like the balance of compromises this one strikes.

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