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Drizzt
January 23, 2003, 07:49 PM
Close-Quarter Battle: Handguns Still Rule

By R.J. Thomas

When Sam Colt invented his revolving cylinder handgun 167 years ago in 1836, he revolutionized hand-to-hand combat in a manner that continues to this day with direct implications for U.S. troops preparing for combat against al Qaeda terrorists and Iraq.

Throughout the years since Colt's patent for the revolving-cylinder handgun, the U.S. military has viewed the handgun as both an offensive and defensive weapon. From the mid-1800s up through World War I, the handgun was viewed as the ultimate choice for close-quarter battle (particularly by the cavalry) over the saber and bayonet.

The original Colt Single-Action Army-chambered in 45 U.S. Army, varied slightly in loadings, but basically provided a 250-grain lead round-nose projectile, propelled by black powder to about 800 feet per second (fps). The performance of this original black-powder cartridge evolved out of the large-frame .44 cap-and-ball percussion pistols designed by Colt for the U.S. Army cavalry. The cavalry needed a gun that would knock down either a man or his horse, and the Walker .44 and later the S.A. A. 45 performed admirably in that capacity.

By 1911, the horse soldier's revolvers had been replaced by the magnificent Browning-designed 1911 self-loader. The horse soldiers were still the primary users of the handgun and they viewed the auto-loader with some suspicion. But the incredible genius of John Browning had taken into consideration the concerns of the mounted troops and designed features into the auto-loader which precluded inadvertent shooting of oneself or his horse. The .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) cartridge provided the same man-killer and horse-stopper ballistics with a 230-grain round-nose jacketed (to assist feeding) bullet, propelled to 850 fps by a charge of the then new smokeless powder.

The military had a small fling with an auto-loader in .38, as well as numerous .38 Special revolvers, but as the Philippine Insurrection demonstrated, they could not be depended upon to incapacitate a determined aggressor in hand-to-hand combat. This inadequacy relegated the .38 to rear-echelon functions such as homeland security and weapons for military support personnel not assigned to front-line units.

By World War I, it was becoming apparent that mastering the big 1911 auto-loader required extensive training and range time. In contrast, the light recoiling, easy to carry .38 revolvers were more user-friendly. With the advent of mechanized warfare, the requirement to close with and engage the enemy hand-to-hand was becoming obsolete except in the trenches. In the trenches, the 1911 .45 ACP and 1897 trench shotgun remained the weapons of choice for CQB, but pilots, tankers and senior officers found the lightweight .38 revolver more to their liking.

World War II military tacticians continued to view the handgun as a defensive weapon. With a few exceptions, such as digging Japanese out of caves and tunnels in the Pacific Theater and some urban warfare in the European theater, soldiers considered the use of a handgun as a last act of defensive desperation. Much the same attitude prevailed through the Korean War, although the little .30 Carbine gained favor as a more effective officer/NCO defensive weapon than the pistol. This was due in large part, to the theory that it took an excessive amount of officer/NCO training time to teach the effective use of the pistol.

The Vietnam War, with its tunnels, bunker complexes and hooch-to-hooch searches, once again spotlighted the offensive uses of the handgun. However, the M-16 with its lightweight, high-capacity, high-volume of fire characteristics was supposed to effectively eliminate the requirement for a pistol. Things didn't work out the way the M-16 supporters projected.

Even the short CAR version of the M-16 was slow and clumsy in a tunnel or in the bowels of a sampan. Furthermore, there was a tendency to select full auto for close-in work (as was the case with most sub-guns) and it is extremely difficult to make precision shots and keep track of the number of rounds expended. The end result of using a full-auto sub-gun in CQB situations, is often unintentional collateral hits and required magazine changes at inopportune moments.

Military pistol marksmanship training during the Vietnam period continued to be based on structured formal competition, which was in turn based on archaic dueling rules of the 19th century. Marksmanship training was conducted on bullseye targets at ranges of 25 and 50 yards over designated elapsed time, firing one-handed from the ready position. However, those of us going in harms way knew that the most successful way to employ the pistol was with two hands at realistic targets, preferably from behind cover. Meanwhile, the civilian world was developing the same practical marksmanship applications in the form of International Practical Shooting Confederation competition.

In the post-Vietnam era, Special Operations Forces (SOF) all over the world were making the same discovery. The counter-terrorism (CT) mission assigned to SOF units often included hostage rescues (HR) and facility takedowns. Once again, the pistol was being employed as the offensive weapon of choice. The characteristics which make the pistol the most effective weapon of choice in these scenarios are speed of employment, accuracy and ability to keep track of the number of rounds expended.

Based on average reaction times of conventional and unconventional troops, a one and a half second shot to the central nervous system (head shot) will most often win the day in a CQB confrontation. Most Special Ops units are training to make the 1.5 second or less head shot. They have discovered it is a difficult task with any pistol, although a well-tuned single-action, based on the old 1911 Colt design is the least difficult to master.

During the 1970s, military bureaucrats decided the military needed a 9-mm double-action replacement for the 60-year-old 1911 .45. The double action design requirement was based on bureaucratic concepts that a properly employed single-action was unsafe and displayed an air of hostility to observers. Politicians and bureaucrats were uncomfortable with our troops walking around openly displaying a cocked and locked pistol, a universally recognized sign that a soldier is ready to fight (what a concept) if necessary.

Additionally, hand-wringing senior military decision makers were worried that the nearly 100-year-old single-action design unnecessarily endangered their troops in training and combat. They were convinced that requiring a double-action function on a newly designed handgun would give the shooter a final momentary opportunity to avoid inadvertently shooting an unintended target as he stroked the long, heavy double-action trigger. What the military got was the M9 Beretta, which is extremely difficult to shoot in double action accurately and quickly from the hammer-down position.

The genius of John Browning's 1911 design is that it is functional on horseback, in vehicles and on foot. A couple of simple rules must be adhered to in order to ensure totally safe employment of the single action. First: Keep the pistol on safe until the pistol is directed at one's target. Second: Place one's finger on the trigger only when sure of target and ready to shoot. Both rules can be followed and an aimed shot fired in a second or less. Following these simple rules precludes all the concerns voiced about "blue-on-blue" accidental shootings.

SOF troop commanders are already aware of the training required to meet all of the above stated goals. However, pilots, grunts, armor and ship-boarding teams who may be required to do battle with a short gun are relegated to training on their own dime with their own guns and ammo.

The Defense Department needs to get on board with reactive, realistic pistol training for the troops, just as government agencies such as the FBI, DEA and DOE have. If we end up in the streets of Baghdad, the pistol will be the weapon of choice to fight in Close Quarter Battle situations - just as it has been in most wars over the past century.

R.J. Thomas is a Contributing Editor of DefenseWatch. He can be reached at win70shooter@hotmail.com.

http://www.sftt.org/dwa/2003/1/22/10.html

Harold Mayo
January 23, 2003, 09:51 PM
Handguns suck for CQB. Long guns are better in almost any circumstance. Long guns are more accurate, faster for multiple shots even on semi-auto and are more powerful even when chambered in the same caliber as a handgun.

IRock
January 23, 2003, 10:18 PM
Give me a .223 w/select fire and a 1911 pistol for backup. In a tunnel or special circumstances would be a different story.

Jaegermeister
January 23, 2003, 10:53 PM
What a bunch of bla-bla-bla.

For close in, I'd rather have a 12 gauge with short barrel and folding stock or an AK.

The only advantage to a handgun is going around corners in a tight urban setting or tunnel where you don't have to wield a long gun from room to room.

While the 1911 is effective, I'd rather go USPf in .45 ACP to add capacity while remaining cocked and locked with V1. Then I'd add a laser or mounted white light and a suppressor to a threaded barrel. The modular nature of the HK would add to the flexibility with the addition of .45 acp thump.

At least the author knows about complex modifying adjectives and the proper use of the hyphen.

EJ
January 23, 2003, 11:17 PM
If you know you need a firearm -- bring a shotgun or rifle--

The handgun is for responding to unpleasant surprises -- when you otherwise would be unarmed if you hafd to carry a longarm--

seeker_two
January 23, 2003, 11:37 PM
IRock has the right idea. While a short-barrel rifle or shotgun is USUALLY the best choice, there are times that a pistol is a better choice (esp. when one hand is needed to be free i.e. opening doors). A lot better to have a small gun than no gun...

Match your equipment to the situation...

sixgun_symphony
January 23, 2003, 11:39 PM
A handgun has a greater effective range than any shotgun.

A shoulder fired weapon is clumsy for tunnels, caves, and interiors of many buildings.

cheygriz
January 24, 2003, 12:37 AM
A handgun is carried for those times when you don't think you're going to need a gun. With very few exceptions, a short rifle is far superior to a handgun.

Patrol officers generally carry handguns. Tactical (SWAT) teams carry long guns. In my experience, a building search can be carried out just as easily with a Car-15 or a shotgun as it can with a handgun. And I sure felt better armed!

Blackhawk
January 24, 2003, 12:38 AM
I thought I posted to this thread earlier. Must have been during some balkiness at THR.

R.J. Thomas speaks my mind, but he does it much better than I could! :D

George Hill
January 24, 2003, 02:06 AM
"A shoulder fired weapon is clumsy for tunnels, caves, and interiors of many buildings."

Okay... if your crawling on your belly through a VC tunnel system... Granted - a shoulder gun would be a bit clumsy and the handgun would be a better option.

In most every other situation, indoors included, a longarm is better. It's not a matter of driving it around the corners... it's a matter of making the hits and its faster and easier to make hits with a long gun. Period.

Shotguns are made for CQB.

Jeff White
January 24, 2003, 05:28 PM
Another hit piece on current American military small arms. The history of the M16 he quotes is wrong. The M16 was NOT supposed to replace the pistol in the inventory. The rifle that was supposed to replace most pistols dates back to WWII and is known as the M1 Carbine.

Pistols are NOT important military weapons and haven't been since the demise of the horse cavalry. In nearly every combat situation a rifle is preferable to a pistol. Very confined spaces like a narrow tunnel, crawl space under a house, storm sewer etc. The only time a pistol is preferable to a rifle is when you have to operate in such a confined space that you cannot maneuver a rifle.

The other use for the pistol in close quarters battle is to be an immediate backup to the rifle should is go down in the middle of a very close fight.

As for the pistol becoming the weapon of choice if we have to fight in the streets of Baghdad; this is what a Ranger Platoon Sergeant, who was just decorated for Operation Anaconda posted over at Lightfighter's forum on his priorities for CQB:

my priorities for CQB, keep in mind that I am a leader and My life is giving orders and making decisions over the radio while clearing rooms and getting shot at.

1.long gun
2. PELTOR/SORDIN headset and commo (I'm a leader)
3. night vision
4. long gun optic
5. bright flashlight on my long gun
6. IR pointer on my long gun
7. another gun

Seems like handgun was number 7 of 7 items. You can read the entire thread here: http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=1386012861&m=8756026802

Jeff

SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI
January 24, 2003, 10:38 PM
The best weapon for close-quarters combat is the hand grenade.

Ala Dan
January 25, 2003, 07:58 AM
Greeting's Again Folk's-

Knowing what I learned from the Viet-Nam experience,
I would have to agree with sixgun_symphony. For some
types of close-in, combat situations like the tunnel rats
performed in Nam; the semi-automatic handgun
rules. As it can be put into action VERY quickly, when
clearing tunnels, caves, the interior of building's, etc.

*FootNote- these day's the high capacity 9m/m's would
make for a logical choice against multiple adversary's.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

STEVE M
January 25, 2003, 09:37 AM
The Beretta M9 is not hard to shoot in the double action mode.

Switching from the double action to single action is not hard.

With many armies wearing body armor only head shots will work so 9mm works about as well as 45ACP in this senario.

If even sub-guns are to big for CQB why has Delta and many others switched from MP-5's to modified M-4's?

HRT's around the world who are concidered experts in CQB all use long guns as primary weapons.

dave
January 25, 2003, 12:30 PM
While I agree that a rife or shotgun is the prefered weapon of choice when one must be in a gunfight, the handgun does have it's uses. As one who has "been there and done that", there have been times when nothing except a handgun would do the job.

For me, the role of a handgun is somewhat limited. It seems to fill the role of a "last ditch" weapon of self defense rather well. Better than a sharp stick anyway. But having said that, there have been times in my life that nothing would work better, in certain cases, than a handgun.

Bottom line for me? The handgun will always have it's place. It's not the "end all, be all" of weapons, I don't think anything is. But it will always be needed. And as long as it is, I feel I need to be trained in it's use as well as I can be. My life, at one time or another, has depended on a weapon. Sometimes it was a rifle, sometimes a shotgun, and sometimes a pistol. I was glad to have the proper weapon for the job at the time.

Give me a good rifle, a good shotgun and a good handgun. Each one has their place and I think it will so for a long time to come.

Blueduck
January 27, 2003, 03:06 AM
What Rangers and SeAls need, no clue...

What I can have in my hand in 2 seconds 99% of the time handgun, 1% of the time-rifle. Guess which one I practice with the most ;)

sixgun_symphony
January 27, 2003, 04:14 AM
I read somewhere that the Tunnel Rats of the Vietnam war preferred .38 revolvers to the .45 pistol.

Skunkabilly
January 27, 2003, 05:16 PM
Shotguns are for winning handgun fights ;) Reehaw!

BHP9
January 27, 2003, 07:09 PM
Military pistol marksmanship training during the Vietnam period continued to be based on structured formal competition, which was in turn based on archaic dueling rules of the 19th century. Marksmanship training was conducted on bullseye targets at ranges of 25 and 50 yards over designated elapsed time, firing one-handed from the ready position. However, those of us going in harms way knew that the most successful way to employ the pistol was with two hands at realistic targets, preferably from behind cover. Meanwhile, the civilian world was developing the same practical marksmanship applications in the form of International Practical Shooting Confederation competition.

History has proven that the worlds best shooters both rifle and pistol are first trained in the traditional way of shooting at known ranges at standard bullseye targets. Just as a person must learn to walk before they run so to is it true in the mastery of the rifle and pistol. People trained traditionally have no problem adapting to the shoot quick at unknown ranges games but the reverse has proven not to be true. People that are untrained in the traditional methods often prove to be only mediocre shots until they go back and learn the basics of trigger control, breath control and concentration.

During the Vietnam era with the changeover from standard bulleye training to the shoot quick at pop up targets with assault rifles resulted in the average marksmenship of the average soldier going down as compared to the marksmenship of past soldiers.

The Defense Department needs to get on board with reactive, realistic pistol training for the troops, just as government agencies such as the FBI, DEA and DOE have. If we end up in the streets of Baghdad, the pistol will be the weapon of choice to fight in Close Quarter Battle situations - just as it has been in most wars over the past century.

No one can argue that we need to have more and better training for our troops armed with handguns but in real life close combat even inside buildings the pefered weapon has always been the full automatic weapon such as the sub-gun and short barreled assault rifle and the grenaide. Test conducted by the Russian military over 65 years ago proved that men in combat generally are reluctant to fire even semi-automatic weapons but when given full auto weapons like the short SMG or Assault Rifle they do indeed use them and fire large ammounts of ammo out of them. This is one major reason the military has never taken the pistol all that seriously. If they had weapons like the fragile Beretta would never have been adopted.

22luvr
January 30, 2003, 10:07 AM
Since I'm not soon going to be wandering through my local Kroger supermarket with a shotgun or assault rifle slung over my shoulder, I guess I'm stuck with my handgun, for better or worse.

dsk
February 1, 2003, 03:44 AM
While I have plenty of handguns to use for defense, the weapon I keep at the ready to repel boarders is a .223 M4 Carbine. I'll take that over ANY handgun, no matter what caliber or capacity. If I'm having to crawl though the heating ducts looking for very large rats, well that's a different story. ;)

Skunkabilly
February 1, 2003, 04:16 AM
If I'm having to crawl though the heating ducts looking for very large rats, well that's a different story.


DSK, I prefer my M41 pulse rifle with O/U pump action grenade launcher.

Feel the weight ;)

Prodigalshooter
February 1, 2003, 04:24 AM
I'd favor the shotgun for most close work(15 yds max), with the pistol as back-up. Beyond that, I'll take a nice battle rifle, thank you very much.;)

Porter Rockwell
February 1, 2003, 04:52 AM
Hello all, I noted a couple posters firmly convinced that the Shotgun is a Short range weapon!?
I suggest you gents borrow a shotgun and a box of slugs to discover just how accurate a .72 caliber rifle can be.
Even a semi-skilled shooter can slip a slug from a side saddle carrier and into action far faster than I can type the description.
PS, with modern Choke brand ammo even 00 Buck is accurate enough for solid hits on bowling pins at 100yds.

AK103K
February 1, 2003, 07:26 AM
with modern Choke brand ammo even 00 Buck is accurate enough for solid hits on bowling pins at 100yds.


I think this is pretty wishful thinking. Even if you did get an occasional hit with buck at that range, it would need to be an eye or heart shot to be fatal.(bowling pins would definitely survive, though they may fall down:) ) As for slugs, yes they are accurate out to 100 yards, but there are much better things to use that are faster to shoot and faster to recover from than a 12ga. A buck loaded shotgun(#1's my favorite) is a short range gun, 25 yards and less being realistic. Its much better than a pistol, except when the pistol is better. :)

4thHorseman
February 2, 2003, 12:01 AM
Drizzt, I thought your post was great. Very informative.:)

Island Beretta
February 2, 2003, 10:22 AM
I think we need to describe what is 'close quarters '. I see people recommending hand grenades.

For me close quarters represents from 0 to 7yds (maybe even going up to 10 yds.). Clearly the closer you are to the 0' the better a handgun will be. At 0' the revolver is preferred over the semi-auto handgun. As you progress up to the 10 yds. range then you are better off with short-barreled long guns, esp. a shotgun.

So you see that over the distance from 0 to 10 yds. the best gun changes. However we are not able to walk around with an arsenal on a day to day basis so we have to optimise. So we substitute 'carry the equipment for the situation' to 'train for the situation'. Here enters the handgun as the best all round tool, somewhat of a 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

The down side is that we have to train a hell of a lot harder to be more effective with the handgun. The military M9 has an effective range of 50 yds. but few of us are accurate at that range with a handgun. For CQB you face the risk of a harder head shot the closer the enemy (believe it or not) and overpenetration. So you are still at a high risk of getting shot, chopped, cut, bludgeoned etc. Here enters the debate of best pistol caliber. ]

The bottom line is that it is all about compromises when carrying a handgun as there is always a weapon that is better for a given situation. MINIMISE YOUR DISADVANTAGE BY TRAINING AND BECOMING PROFICIENT WITH YOUR HANDGUN.

HS/LD
February 2, 2003, 11:32 PM
Has anyone here ever engaged in COB?

The only reason one would choose a handgun over a shotgun, subgun or carbine is if the operator of said weapon was totally ingnorant or lacked any profieciency with anything but a pistol. If you don't know how to make the weapon ready use the pistol.

Apart from the extreme of crawling on your belly in a tunnel, there is absolutley no way I would trade a subgun or carbine for a pistol.

A handgun has a greater effective range than any shotgun.
A shoulder fired weapon is clumsy for tunnels, caves, and interiors of many buildings.

A handgun has a greater effective range than any shotgun. Really?
I was busting pumpkins yesterday at 100 meters with a bead sighted 18" barrel shotgun, and thats with the cheapest rifled 1oz. slugs I could find 4" groups at 100 meters ... throw sabots in the mix and take it out even further...

With correct instruction / technique a shoulder fired weapon is an advatage in nearly any COB scenario.

For CCW obviously in a civilian capacity the rugged auto pistol is THE weapon of choice. If on the other hand you have a choice, grab your long gun.

HS/LD

Harold Mayo
February 3, 2003, 12:03 PM
The article was not talking about carry or crawling in tunnels but CQB. If you are clearing a house, you want a subgun, a shotgun, or a carbine, not a handgun. Handguns suck for CQB.

A shotgun is devastating in close quarters. It is great out to 100 yards or so with slugs but I would rather than a carbine or even a subgun beyond 20 or 30 yards.

A subgun is great. Even on semiauto, a subgun is quick and accurate and beats a handgun. A guy who is well-trained with an MP-5 can do wonders with rapid shot placement even on full-auto. For those who have not fired one, you don't really "spray and pray" with a submachinegun if you know how to use it.

A carbine is good and would be my personal choice because it has more versatility (to my mind). I don't like the thought of shooting a .223 in a confined space without hearing protection, though.

sixgun_symphony
February 3, 2003, 05:48 PM
Who is going to load slugs into a shotgun for CQB?

If a longshot presents itself during a CQB engagement, one will most likely have buckshot loads in their shotgun. I doubt that one will have time to to unload the buckshot rounds and then load slugs.

Buckshot is only good to 30yds or so.

HS/LD
February 3, 2003, 07:23 PM
Again, with correct instruction and correct training engaging targets with a shotgun at mid ranges (out to 100 yards) is not that difficult. Select slug drills can be accomplished very quickly, quicker in most cases than transitioning to a secondary weapon.

Who is going to load slugs into a shotgun for CQB?
I would load a CQB shotgun with slugs!
In fact my CQB shotgun is loaded in part with slugs AND buckshot and has a sidesaddle for extra slugs. A select slug drill enables me to quickly transition to a shot out past 100 yards with a greater degree of confidence and accuracy than a pistol. Remember a new hi-vel slug weighing in at 7/8 .oz will only drop some 3 inches from 50 to 100 yards. As for buckshot research info regarding "Choke Precision Bonded buckshot" with shot cups that enable buckshot to mimic the external ballistics of a slug and the terminal ballistics of buckshot out to 100 yards.

I didn't want to put it as strongly as this, but supposing proficiency in either weapon, a pistol over a shotgun is, relatively, a very poor choice when it comes to CQB.

If the pistol was the BEST for CQB and the only thing that one could maneuver in a house why then do the HR teams choose subguns, carbines, and shotguns, backed up by pistols?

I know from even my limited training and experience with an Armed Offenders unit there was not a man on the squad who would take a pistol over a shoulder fired weapon.

Regards,
HS/LD

BHP9
February 3, 2003, 07:41 PM
I still love hand grenades.

CWL
February 3, 2003, 08:04 PM
If a longshot presents itself during a CQB engagement, one will most likely have buckshot loads in their shotgun. I doubt that one will have time to to unload the buckshot rounds and then load slugs

There are enough misconceptions about guns already without creating new ones. Various drills exist in how to swap slugs/buck while moving & in combat. This is for both pump and semiautos. Spend some money for training and learn how.

Once you understand the patterning of your shotgun and choose the appropriate brand of ammo, you can make headshots on BGs with buck @ 20 yards without disturbing a 'friendly' silhouette placed next to it. Needless to say, slugs will extend this reach. I just spent the past weekend putting 00 & 000 buck & slugs into the head-sized targets without disturbing the 'hostage' target.

Nothing is more devastating than a shotgun blast at close quarters.

It's all in understanding your weapon and how you train.

btw, guess what is being used as a primary CQB weapon in Afghanistan for cave & complex clearing? Shotgun.