FFL dealer strange question.


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hoochk
November 18, 2010, 12:02 PM
Folks,

I am not sure about this one... Been buying new guns and filled out the paper work many of times.

The last gun I purchased, an AK-47, was going to be transferred to an FFL dealer which is a store dedicated to selling computers. It is the first time I am dealing with them. Went down there to get the gun and after he lets me check the contents of the crate, and starts to close it, he goes, "DO YOU HAVE ANY AMMO ON YOU?"... I found the question somewhat puzzling... he himself had done a check on me and saw that I could get the gun, now why does he ask that question...

What are your thoughts... about what was this guy's intention of asking.

Thank you in advance.

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NavyLCDR
November 18, 2010, 12:07 PM
Maybe he wanted to go out back with you and shoot pop cans?

Sounds to me like the guy was paranoid at transferring an "evil" "assault" weapon and wanted to appease his paranoia that you weren't going immediately to the local Wal Mart and start shooting up the place. Just my conjecture.

What would he have done if you said yes?

sernv99
November 18, 2010, 12:13 PM
he probably does not want you to start loading up in his store.....it wouldn't surprise me that some wingnut before brought ammo with him to load up when the transfer was done.

An FFL in a computer store? I would use a "real" FFL in a gunshop if you don't want to be asked any questions like these in the future.....

hoochk
November 18, 2010, 12:16 PM
Actually, I ordered 1,000 rounds for the BEAST one day after I ordered the gun!!!:D

Hope that he is not reading this thread!

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z292/tannerroscoe/IMG_6183a.jpg

BP Hunter
November 18, 2010, 12:19 PM
Some LGS employees just are tight arses and pure idiots. So what if you had ammo, you passed the NICS call, he can legally transfer the firearm to you. One store employee wouldn't let me unholster my CCW to try a new holster, when I politely asked him to. He actaully asked me to step outside the store to unarm myself. Golly! Many other LGS are more than happy to have a fellow shooters in their store.

hoochk
November 18, 2010, 12:22 PM
Maybe he wanted to go out back with you and shoot pop cans?

Sounds to me like the guy was paranoid at transferring an "evil" "assault" weapon and wanted to appease his paranoia that you weren't going immediately to the local Wal Mart and start shooting up the place. Just my conjecture.

What would he have done if you said yes?
I don't think so...

First of all, what is the purpose of the paper work that you fill out? What do they do?

Second, seriously, why would anyone want to say "YES", just to test out the reaction... is that where you are going with this...

Apex29
November 18, 2010, 12:22 PM
FFL dealers are like private gun owners in that there is a percentage of insane people out there. Was he wearing panties on his head?

potmetal
November 18, 2010, 12:42 PM
If he's an FFL, does he sell guns and ammo too? Maybe he was just going to try to sell you some of his ammo? If he doesn't sell guns and ammo, how did he get an FFL?

45Fan
November 18, 2010, 12:45 PM
A local sporting goods store wont even let you walk out the store with a new gun, an employe walks it out to your car for you. They also wont sell ammo in the same transaction. On the other side of the coin, the LGS that my dad took me to as a kid wouldnt sell you a gun without giving you a box of ammo to go with it. I guess you just found one of the more paranoid FFLs in your area.

NavyLCDR
November 18, 2010, 12:52 PM
I don't think so...

First of all, what is the purpose of the paper work that you fill out? What do they do?

Second, seriously, why would anyone want to say "YES", just to test out the reaction... is that where you are going with this...

First, the purpose of the paperwork that you fill out is to fullfill the requirements of Federal law commonly known as the Brady law. It is your statement that you are not a prohibited person and it is the documentation that records the results of the NICS check. The form 4473 also serves as the documentation to remove the firearm from the dealer's bound book - their bound book shows where/who the gun came from and the 4473 documents where/who the gun went to. The form 4473 can also be used as part of a gun trace if requested, through the proper channels, by law enforcement agencies.

Assuming that by "What do they do?" you are referring to the FFL. The FFL will screen the 4473 form to ensure that you didn't put any disqualifying information on it. If you did, they will just deny the sale at that point. They will also verify that you have met the identification requirements set forth in Federal and state laws. Again, if you don't meet the identification requirements, they will deny the sale right then. After they have verified all the answers are appropriate and verified your identification, they will either call NICS or run the NICS check by computer. They will record the NICS reply on the form 4473.

Assuming they get a "proceed" answer from NICS, they will then record all the information regarding the specific firearm(s) they are transferring to you on the 4473. I believe up to 5 firearms can be listed on a single 4473. At the end of the day, they will clear the firearm(s) from their bound books and file away the 4473.

Finally, I never suggested answering "yes" to the question asked regarding if you had ammo with you or not just to test their reaction. You asked a question which would require conjecture and speculation on our part to answer. How the hell do we know why the FFL asked the question? We weren't there. We don't even know which dealer you are talking about or anything about the guy or his business or even what state you are in. I merely responded with a similar question which would require conjecture and speculation to answer.

How the heck could any of us know why he asked you the question. Maybe he wanted to buy the ammo from you. Maybe he would offer the "service" of verifying the ammo you might have with you was the proper caliber for the gun you bought. Maybe he might want to see if the ammo had corrosive primers or not and would offer advice on how to deal with corrosive primers. Maybe he wanted to see if the ammo was boxer or berdan primed to offer reloading information. Maybe he wanted to see if the bullets were bi-metal jacketed by checking them with a magnet.

If you don't want answers to your questions than I would suggest that you not ask them.

hoochk
November 18, 2010, 02:02 PM
First, the purpose of the paperwork that you fill out is to fullfill the requirements of Federal law commonly known as the Brady law. It is your statement that you are not a prohibited person and it is the documentation that records the results of the NICS check. The form 4473 also serves as the documentation to remove the firearm from the dealer's bound book - their bound book shows where/who the gun came from and the 4473 documents where/who the gun went to. The form 4473 can also be used as part of a gun trace if requested, through the proper channels, by law enforcement agencies.

Assuming that by "What do they do?" you are referring to the FFL. The FFL will screen the 4473 form to ensure that you didn't put any disqualifying information on it. If you did, they will just deny the sale at that point. They will also verify that you have met the identification requirements set forth in Federal and state laws. Again, if you don't meet the identification requirements, they will deny the sale right then. After they have verified all the answers are appropriate and verified your identification, they will either call NICS or run the NICS check by computer. They will record the NICS reply on the form 4473.

Assuming they get a "proceed" answer from NICS, they will then record all the information regarding the specific firearm(s) they are transferring to you on the 4473. I believe up to 5 firearms can be listed on a single 4473. At the end of the day, they will clear the firearm(s) from their bound books and file away the 4473.

Finally, I never suggested answering "yes" to the question asked regarding if you had ammo with you or not just to test their reaction. You asked a question which would require conjecture and speculation on our part to answer. How the hell do we know why the FFL asked the question? We weren't there. We don't even know which dealer you are talking about or anything about the guy or his business or even what state you are in. I merely responded with a similar question which would require conjecture and speculation to answer.

How the heck could any of us know why he asked you the question. Maybe he wanted to buy the ammo from you. Maybe he would offer the "service" of verifying the ammo you might have with you was the proper caliber for the gun you bought. Maybe he might want to see if the ammo had corrosive primers or not and would offer advice on how to deal with corrosive primers. Maybe he wanted to see if the ammo was boxer or berdan primed to offer reloading information. Maybe he wanted to see if the bullets were bi-metal jacketed by checking them with a magnet.

If you don't want answers to your questions than I would suggest that you not ask them.
I appreciate your lengthy and detailed description of the processes... BUT mine will still be short, as you asked the question, "What would he have done if you said yes?"....

And from reading this forum for a WHILE NOW, I seem to enjoy coming back knowing that SAFE PRACTICES of FIREARMS are encouraged over and over again.

I think, it would be a NOTE for those new folks in to the world of firearms to know that you don't want to be cocky and provide such answers to questions that you are asked, whatever the nature may be... someone who has been granted an FFL, which stands for a Federal Firearms Dealer, is that it... anyhow, to me it is someone who has been granted a special permission on the behalf of the Government.
Therefore, I RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE WHO IS READING THIS, PLEASE DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GETTING COCKY AND PROVIDING ANSWERS TO TESTING QUESTIONS. It could be detrimental...

My one cent worth of advice.

9mmepiphany
November 18, 2010, 02:42 PM
I don't think NavyLT is suggesting that folks get cocky with their FFL. It sounded like he was asking what you thought the FFl would have done...to determine what your concern was about the question.

I don't attribute any reason to the question, it is just a question...either answer it or don't. If you feel uncomfortable with the questions of this FFL, don't offer him any return business.

I am a bit curious, especially considering your follow on post, what you thought his intention was?

JohnBT
November 18, 2010, 03:07 PM
""DO YOU HAVE ANY AMMO ON YOU?"... "

Yes, but it's all loaded in the pistol I have in my pocket.

You just know that I would have said that. John

ShortFatHokie
November 18, 2010, 03:19 PM
We gun owners have to be some of the most paranoid people in the world...just sayin'...

supham
November 18, 2010, 04:20 PM
he probably does not want you to start loading up in his store.....it wouldn't surprise me that some wingnut before brought ammo with him to load up when the transfer was done.

An FFL in a computer store? I would use a "real" FFL in a gunshop if you don't want to be asked any questions like these in the future.....
Ha! My FFL dealer is also in a 'computer store'. Basically the guy is trying to make a living off of two different hobbies.

(Sterling Heights, MI)

CoRoMo
November 18, 2010, 04:26 PM
Yeah, I know of a mechanic shop that holds a license and can do transfers. I think he's also a gunsmith, hence the license.

When the wife and I bought a mattress a few years ago, the sales guy pitched a half dozen accessories, cleaning whatnots, and such before he'd take payment on the mattress. I took the OP question the same way potmetal did, and one LGS here also GIVES you a box of ammo when you buy a gun from them. Maybe he was trying to sell you some ammo too.

NavyLCDR
November 18, 2010, 04:54 PM
If the exact wording of the question was correct - "DO YOU HAVE ANY AMMO ON YOU?" - I would that to be more suspicious than simply asking, "Do you have any ammo for that gun" or "Do you need any ammo for that gun".

zoom6zoom
November 18, 2010, 05:03 PM
One store employee wouldn't let me unholster my CCW to try a new holster, when I politely asked him to. He actaully asked me to step outside the store to unarm myself.
You know what the number one cause of accidental discharges in gun shops is? Sorry, I'm with the clerk on this one.

hoochk
November 18, 2010, 05:04 PM
The surest way, would be to carry a recording device, maybe, I am just brain storming here to know and capture the exact words used to construct the question.

Caliper_RWVA
November 18, 2010, 05:04 PM
One store employee wouldn't let me unholster my CCW to try a new holster, when I politely asked him to. He actaully asked me to step outside the store to unarm myself. Golly! Many other LGS are more than happy to have a fellow shooters in their store.

Mixing loaded and unloaded guns is a bad idea. At my favorite local shop, they offer CPL classes but have a sign clearly posted on the front door "CPL holders, Do NOT unholster in the store". If everyone always followed the basic rules it would be no problem, but too many people take it for granted that the guns in a gun shop are unloaded.

To the OP: It would depend on his tone of voice. Did he sound like he wanted to go out back and shoot a few cans with you or did he sound like he thought you were about to load it and go nuts?

hoochk
November 18, 2010, 05:08 PM
The store is located right in the middle of town in a small shopping center on a busy major intersection.
The method by which he made the question, was to fast and too quick... to catch you off guard... this guy seem to have some training, maybe in interrogation!

JEB
November 18, 2010, 05:13 PM
first off, that is one purdy ak! out of curiosity, who did you ordre from?

back to your question. i have no idea. personally ive always had the opinion that anything i have that you cant see is none of anybody's business. strange question though

hoochk
November 18, 2010, 05:15 PM
first off, that is one purdy ak! out of curiosity, who did you ordre from?

back to your question. i have no idea. personally ive always had the opinion that anything i have that you cant see is none of anybody's business. strange question though
Thank you. I purchased it from armofamerica,com

MN9159
November 18, 2010, 05:33 PM
Im pretty sure you cannot purchase ammo for a gun at the same time that you purchase a gun here in NY, could be another part to that law that he is referring to. Not sure of the facts, like others have said, when I purchased my first gun they gave me a box of ammo with it, but some of the big chain stores wont :scrutiny:

32 Magnum
November 18, 2010, 06:51 PM
I've worked PT in a gun shop set along a rural highway, for a few years now. Most of the time, I'm there alone. I've had many "good intentioned" people produce a loaded gun, point it directly at me and ask what I thought it was worth. I've had a drunk come in and start waving a loaded .357 Magnum snubbie around. I've had groups of 2, 3, 4 "gang bangers" come in and act suspicious. I've had situations where folks brought in a deceased relatives guns and found one or more loaded. I even had two rough looking guys come in and ask to see an AK. The big mouth of the pair asked, "What would you do if I pulled out my own loaded magazine and started heading for the door." My reply, as I uncovered my holstered .357, "You'll never make it to the door." He then said, "Hey, I was just kidding." I said, "I wasn't." I took the rifle back and asked them to leave. Followed them outside - they had out of state plates on their car. A lot of other incidents. Not all fun and games working in a gun store. I made it through Viet Nam without getting shot - won't let it happen now, if I can help it.
Just a couple somethings to think about next time you're in a shop and the "clerk" or as some say "counter monkey" acts a bit nervous or suspicious.

gym
November 18, 2010, 07:05 PM
Just answer the question and move on. I must get at least 1 stupid question a day from someone.Like, is it dark out? Are you cold? Do you think it may rain? Is the light on?

orionengnr
November 18, 2010, 08:27 PM
FFL dealers are like private gun owners in that there is a percentage of insane people out there. Was he wearing panties on his head?
Wait a minute...are you saying there's something wrong with that? :neener:

Do you have any ammo on you?
Why...you wanna buy some? ;)

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