[Confederate]

When I went to the NRA's indoor range recently, I had to take a written test. Part of it had to do with drawing a 6 o'clock hold. I later wondered how many people shoot a 6 o'clock hold or point-of-aim.

What are your views? How would you find a 6 o'clock hold on a bad guy? Or put more directly, if your gun is cranked in to shoot high, how would that affect your point of aim in a defensive situation? At close range, using your front sight might be just fine. But at further distances, how would it affect your shots?

Do yo shoot at point-of-aim or do you favor the 6 o'clock hold? Why, or why not? And do you use the same aiming for both revolvers and autos? The pistol I shoot with most is a Ruger Security-Six, and I favor a point-of-aim -- but I wonder how the rest of you guys shoot. And how are fixed-sight pistols cranked in?

[armoredman]

For small bullseye shooting, like below,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/targets/IMG_1830.jpg

that's a "six o'clock" hold, basically bottom of the tiny bullseye. Any other shooting is POA.

[gearhead]

It’s more natural for me to hold a 6 o’clock aim. The way I learned it was that a weapon sighted in for a 6 o’clock aim had a sight picture with the flat top of the front sight at the desired point of impact. All of my recent pistols have a POA=POI sight picture, that took some getting used to because it’s not really natural for me to cover the desired point of impact with my sight. I’ve trained myself to shoot acceptably with this sight picture.

[MrBorland]

When I used a 6 o'clock hold, it was for target shooting. Even then, the sight was adjusted based on the target, since the larger bull, the lower the 6 o'clock hold is from the center.

A center hold is more versatile, and since my most-shot guns are often pressed into service as informal target guns, it's become my default.

[rcmodel]

I cut my teeth with handguns hunting rabbits & coyotes, and later shooting NRA bullseye for 5th Army AMU.
I prefer 6 o'clock, as you still have an aiming point after you shoot out the center of the target.

As for hunting, it allows you to see the animal resting on top of the front sight at any range instead of blocking it completely out of your vision at longer range.

As for SD, at those close ranges, it makes no differance at all if that is what you shoot with all the time for 50+ years.

rc

[Jeff82]

6 o'clock hold is for Bullseye shooting. Point of aim is everything else (including, if you choose, Bullseye).

Idea being it's easier to hold the front sight at the bottom of a black dot than somewhere in the middle of it.

Armoredman, that's not a real good example as your 6o'C hold is almost POA anyway. A better example would be if the Bullseye and (for example) the first two rings were all black. Then you'd be aiming the the bottom of the black while the rounds would impact high above the front sight.

6o'C hold only works at a particular distance with a certain size Bull.

[MrBorland]

Armoredman, that's not a real good example as your 6o'C hold is almost POA anyway. A better example would be if the Bullseye and (for example) the first two rings were all black. Then you'd be aiming the the bottom of the black while the rounds would impact high above the front sight.

Here ya' go:

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/thrholidaymatch09k38.jpg



And here's a tricky one - target shooting, to be sure, but it'd give 6 o'clock holders fits ;)



http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/April10CFPostalMatch.jpg

[bigfatdave]

When I used a 6 o'clock hold, it was for target shooting. Even then, the sight was adjusted based on the target, since the larger bull, the lower the 6 o'clock hold is from the center.
Exactly.
The 6-o-clock hold is for standard targets at standard distances, not realistic defensive shooting.

[Mousegun]

Bikal air pistol 10 shots at 10 meters using a 6 O'clock hold with one hand NRA stance.

http://webpages.charter.net/vfr800/AirTarget.jpg

[awgrizzly]

Since a kid have always shot 6:00. I never questioned it but just naturally assumed it was so you could see your target. But this doesn't mean to aim at the 6:00 of an object (from a penny to an elephant), but to aim 6:00 of where you want the bullet to land. If it's a large bullseye, aim at 6:00 of the center of it, not the bottom. I don't know about POI on some stuff, but seems to me a pointless distinction. Just don't aim 6:00 on an elephant unless you want to make him dance.

[W.E.G.]

6 o'clock is a TARGET HOLD.

6 o'clock has nothing to do with defensive shooting.

[AK103K]

Depending on how you look at it and how your sights are adjusted/regulated, the 6 o'clock hold can also be, and very often is, the point of aim hold.

Most all my handguns have three dot sights on them, and the POI is regulated to the center dot, not the top of the blade. I put the center dot where I want the round to go. A true 6 o'clock hold shoots low for me.

[Steve C]

For the most part this is a non issue with handguns.

When shooting relatively small target aiming points, be it a bullseye or a bottle cap the 6 O'clock hold gives the best accuracy as the target isn't blocked out or swallowed by the aiming point.

If shooting targets with large or no aiming point like steel plates, bowling pins, all black silhouettes at close range or close up targets designed to be shot at a longer range you use the same sights with the same setting as POI aim as the small divergence of the bullet makes little difference. As the target is brought in closer the closer the bullet will hit to the top of the sight post position. For the most part reactive targets just have to be hit and grouping isn't important.

With law enforcement silhouettes the sights are swallowed by the black and guessing where the middle is to align the sights will put the shots in the middle and its large "X" area without having to be particularly precise. Compare that to a Bullseye target 10 ring and you will see what I mean.

[The Lone Haranguer]

That hold is for target shooting, for a consistent aiming point at a black bullseye on white paper at relatively great distances (usually 25 or 50 yards). The finely adjustable sights are regulated to put the bullets into the center of the bullseye. This has no relevance to shooting at someone who is about to - or already has - shoot at you.

[Mike OTDP]

I've done center, 6, and sub-6.

For target shooting, a sub-6 hold actually works best. You focus on sight alignment (which is your big error source), and stop trying to "frame" the shot in relation to the bull.

But I've shot targets with center hold as well. Used it for many years, still use it on some guns. That is, of course, your defensive hold.

[alienbogey]

I don't understand why people keep saying that a POA hold blocks the target. A 12 o'clock sight picture (if there was such a thing) would block the target, but with the POA hold the upper half of the target is completely visible, the lower half is partially obscured but that doesn't matter because you're by definition holding on the precise point you want to shoot anyway.

I can see how a 6:00 hold will work when sighted for a precisely known bull size at precisely the same distance every time, but that is obviously a very specialized set of circumstance that as far as I can see offers no advantage over POA.

But, to each his own, whatever works for you.

[Sport45]

The problem with not using a 6 o'clock hold when target shooting is sometimes the black is wider than the front sight in the aiming picture. Trying to get a black front sight centered in a black bull can be difficult when there's not much color contrast between the sight and the bullseye.

Of course this is the handgun forum and many front sights aren't blackened before you shoot so YMMV.

[InkEd]

I've always learned POA shooting for anything. However, my "formal training" is not much.

[Confederate]

I went to the range today with my Taurus PT-92 and was disappointed that the gun fired way too low. Don't know whether I should file down the front sight or just leave it. As much as I detest Glocks, they do shoot to my point of aim.

The ammo I was using was the Winchester white box stuff.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/Taurus92_4a.jpg

[Red Cent]

Confederate, a 6:00 hold is good method to print a pistol. Shooting for accuracy at short distances at rather small targets will cause the shooter to acquire the sights. However, when the rush of adrenaline hits you and the fight or flight mode kicks in you 'might' see the front sight. Maybe. If you have practiced fast acquisition enough. Most won't see any sights. Very few will align the sights. The good ones will take a "6:00" hold on COM and tap the trigger.

[Curator]

6 o'clock hold is the most precise, repeatable sight picture for target shooting with an open sighted handgun. If you are learning to shoot handguns or are training a new handgun shooter it usually provides the best groups. Sport45 and the others have it right. Obviously it has no relevence for defensive shooting or hunting. You can check it for yourself by shooting from a bench rest at 25 yards using the 6 o'clock hold sight picture and the center hold sight picture and compare targets. Most shooters using the center hold (assuming good sight allignment) on black bull targets shoot vertically elongated groups since the black front sight will "melt" into the black bulls eye like a black cat eating licorice in a coal-bin. 6 o'clock hold will usually give nice tight round groups. This seems counterintuitive but it works.