Vision and Shooting


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steve.h
November 18, 2010, 08:19 PM
As I've grown older, I have found that when looking down my gun the sight is clear, the actual target is out of focus.

I have been looking for solutions to this problem for years, and have plenty of thoughts on the subject. I know I'm not alone in the frustration I found relying on bifocals or progressive glasses at the range. They caused distortion and blurriness and forced me to move my head while aiming at the target.

What experiences have you all had? I would love to hear more about the vision solutions other older shooters have found, as well.

-Steve

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M-Cameron
November 18, 2010, 08:21 PM
ummm.....the front sight is supposed to be clear....and the target is supposed to be out of focus.....

o Unforgiven o
November 18, 2010, 08:29 PM
Sorry to say but you don't have a "problem". Your eyes will only focus on one thing at a time, the sights are supposed to be in focus and the target will not be simply because your eyes cannot focus on two things at once.

Larry Ashcraft
November 18, 2010, 09:32 PM
Maybe the problem is the bifocals. I've worn glasses for over 45 years, and I didn't have any trouble until I tried shooting my silhouette pistol in the Creedmore position while wearing bifocals (which means I was looking through the bottom portion of my glasses while aiming). A switch to single vision glasses fixed that.

My vision is bad, and I have glaucoma, but I don't have much problem using iron sights yet. Sure, there's some degrading of sight. I don't know if I could see the 200m rams all that well these days, but I shoot well enough to make me happy.

paradox998
November 18, 2010, 09:40 PM
Here is an easy trick. Take a small piece of electrical tape and place it on a piece of scrap wood. Take a punch and make a small hole. Take the tape, trim it in a circle and place it directly in line with your shooting eye. Look through the hole and bingo, everything is in focus! Same principle as a pin hole camera. Works for me and the cost is less than 0.01

Sky
November 18, 2010, 09:44 PM
agree with all the above...dollar store 175 to 250 magnification which ever works for the front sight to be clear everything else is blurry or out of focus. Do not need expensive glasses to fix your problem...or I didn't.

Furncliff
November 18, 2010, 09:45 PM
I let the eye doc know that I'm a target shooter. She adjusted the progressive lens prescription. Good to go.

steve.h
November 19, 2010, 05:55 PM
Thanks for all your feedback. As someone in the eye care profession, I find this all very interesting.

My friend Sam Wortham, who is an award winning champion shooter, has these same vision problems. He has been working with a new technology, adjustable-focus glasses, and has had a lot of luck with them recently. You can read about his experience here. (http://shoot.superfocus.com/shooters-challenge-sam-wortham/)

Would you consider trying technology like this?

o Unforgiven o
November 19, 2010, 07:04 PM
Thanks for all your feedback. As someone in the eye care profession, I find this all very interesting.

My friend Sam Wortham, who is an award winning champion shooter, has these same vision problems. He has been working with a new technology, adjustable-focus glasses, and has had a lot of luck with them recently. You can read about his experience here. (http://shoot.superfocus.com/shooters-challenge-sam-wortham/)

Would you consider trying technology like this?
I am still not understanding these "vision problems". I am 17, my eyesight is 20/20 and yet I cannot get the sights and the target to be clear at the same time. I don't really see a problem here as long as you can see the front sights and the target well and it sounds like you do, but nobody can see both in focus at the same time.

killchain
November 19, 2010, 09:44 PM
I am still not understanding these "vision problems". I am 17, my eyesight is 20/20 and yet I cannot get the sights and the target to be clear at the same time. I don't really see a problem here as long as you can see the front sights and the target well and it sounds like you do, but nobody can see both in focus at the same time.
"Normal eyes" can only focus on one thing at a time. Human beings have "normal eyes." Your cornea is flexed through muscles to refract light to your optic nerve. This is how you focus, and why as you get older it becomes harder to focus at certain ranges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye#Normal_eyes

You need to focus on the front sight post, your rear sights should be slightly blurry, and the target should be blurry.

Iron Sight
November 19, 2010, 11:07 PM
Try a gun with a Red Dot sight system.

steve.h
November 29, 2010, 09:21 PM
My performance is affected by a particular condition called presbyopia (http://shoot.superfocus.com/what-is-presbyopia-Superfocus/). Many other shooters my age are affected by this, and have found ways to work around these problems by using bifocals or progressives. But I just find these don't do the trick - my field of view becomes greatly reduced when I'm trying to focus on the sites. Adjustable focus glasses are different, however, and allow me to enjoy the sport as I used to.

If anyone else has experience with presbyopia affecting their shooting, I suggest they give this new technology a try. Check them out: http://shoot.superfocus.com/ (http://shoot.superfocus.com/)

Jim Watson
November 29, 2010, 09:27 PM
At $900 a pop, I am going to have to be sold on the Superfocus.
I have for some time used monovision shooting glasses with the right eye ground to focus on the front sight, the left eye at my usual distance Rx for the target.
I am looking into new glasses, my old ones were lost in the Incident last January and I have been feeling a little lost as I got back into IDPA.

Art Eatman
November 30, 2010, 01:20 AM
I started IPSC shooting in 1980. Bi-focals, and then tri-focals. My solution was to have an add-on lens at the inner corner of the lens of my master eye. About 3/4" x 1", glued in place, with the magnification equal to the center part of my tri-focals: Just right for a dashboard, instrument panel--or pistol sights. Very slight blur for the target.

Works for irons on rifles, as well.

For Georgia folks, there's a lab in Albany which is familiar with the deal.

rskent
November 30, 2010, 06:20 AM
When I shoot my Match Rifle (AR15-A2) I have tried using street glasses, glasses with a special prescription, and different lenses in the
rear sight hood, no glasses. What I use now is a set of contacts with the hyper focal distance in my left eye set to infinity and in my right
eye set to 44 inches. They give me a pretty good sight picture overall. Driving to the range is a little weird though. I am looking at getting
a pair of knoblocks for next year.

For pistols, since I carry, and I can’t just tell a bad guy Hay stop just let me put on my special glasses I just started to practice point
shooting. It’s not that hard. I don’t get nice pretty little groups any more. But since I can’t even see the sights on my carry gun, it seems
like a good compromise.

Good luck
Steve

Johnny Guest
November 30, 2010, 08:05 PM
steve.h: There are some issues that need to be addressed. Not the least of these is, How do your posts differ from out-and-out SPAM?
Let's see now - -
In his first post, brand new member steve.h says he has trouble with having both the sight AND the target in focus at once. Kinds like all the rest of us, it seems.

And he asks, "What experiences have you all had? I would love to hear more about the vision solutions other older shooters have found, as well." A quest for knowledge, is it? Sounds good.

BUT - -In the second post, steve.h reveals himself to us . . . As someone in the eye care profession, I find this all very interesting.

My friend Sam Wortham, who is an award winning champion shooter, has these same vision problems. He has been working with a new technology, adjustable-focus glasses, and has had a lot of luck with them recently. You can read about his experience here.

Would you consider trying technology like this?
And in his final post, Steve reveals to us that he suffers from the heartbreak of presbyopia, as do many shooters his age - -What age IS that, Steve?

But wait! There's HOPE! He suggests you try Superfocus, and provides a link. And, HEY! I'll bet that, as "Someone in the eye care profession," he's in a position to offer you a deal on Superfocus glasses!

Steve, would you like to share with us just what position you hold as "Someone in the eye care profession?" And with what company?

Also, why did the Zoom Focus Eyewear LLC/Trufocus people change the name of their product to Superfocus in October 2010?

Is there any input from any professional groups of ophthalmologists or optometrists that endorse the use of this gadget eyewear? Perhaps most important, have any eye care professionals -- ones that don't hesitate to identify their specific field -- signed off on this eyewear as being truly harmless?

Steve, if you just want to sell a product that might be of aid to target shooters, why don't you arrange for an honest, up-front advertisement. Reveal your commercial ties with the product and company. steve.h - what is your connection, if any, to the products or company in your link? How about it?

Johnny Guest
THR Staff

Howard Roark
November 30, 2010, 09:04 PM
steve.h magically appeared over on National Match.us in October and posted about the same glasses.

I don't think he got any takers.

rikman
November 30, 2010, 09:28 PM
At $1229 a pair I'm not surprised.

I use a pair of Decot Hi Wyd's. I went full bore and got all of my necessary lenses, rifle,pistol(right lens) amber for low light overcast days and darker brown for sunny days all for just under 500 bucks. Great knowledgable guys to deal with.

Rikman

CharlesT
November 30, 2010, 09:45 PM
I have some HD vision glasses that work pretty well.

russ69
November 30, 2010, 10:01 PM
As I've grown older, I have found that when looking down my gun the sight is clear...

I'll ignore the spam and just answer the question....If your (front) sight is clear, you have no problem.

Thanx, Russ

Rogue6
December 1, 2010, 03:42 PM
During my last deployment I was issued a set of Revision ballistic eyewear (shooting glasses). Since I've gotten older I've started using reading glasses for close-up vision. The problem was that on mission I could see just fine out the windows but couldn't read the digital displays in the commander's station. Turns out that you can get a bifocal insert for the Revisions that works just great. Looking straight out (like through your sights) is normal, and looking down you can adjust your sights or fiddle with whatever close up. It was a neat solution.

steve.h
December 3, 2010, 07:39 PM
Hi everyone –My apologies if I came across as spamming in this forum. While I might be a new member, I have also been a longtime shooter and - like many of you - I experience presbyopia. Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I am an eye care professional, and am currently the COO of Superfocus (you can view my linked in profile here: http://www.linkedin.com/in/shecker)

I wanted to join in your conversations about aging, vision and shooting, because it affects me a lot, which is why I am passionate about the technology my company has created.

Anyway, I’m sorry if my participation in this forum made anyone upset. I am an honest member of the community as a shooter, and therefore I felt I had a place in this forum. I am happy to continue answering any other questions you guys have about myself or presbyopia.

-Steve

Top_Gunn
December 3, 2010, 07:53 PM
Like others who are getting along, I have a problem with presbyopia. Last year it got to the point where I could no longer shoot a rifle with iron sights accurately. When I wear glasses that let me focus on the front sight, the target isn't just blurry, it's so bad as not to be able to see enough detail to find the bullseye. Without glasses, I still have 20/15 vision but can't focus on the front sight of a rifle and still have any picture at all, even blurry, of the rear sight. So, reluctantly, I now have scopes on all my rifles, which solves that problem, but it's a real shame to have to put a scope on a lever-action rifle. Pistols at ten yards are still OK with iron sights.

So it's not really the case that you have "no problem" if you can see the front sight clearly. You have to have some sort of picture (blurry is OK, but a complete smudge isn't) of the target and the rear sight, too. All at the same time.

teetertotter
December 4, 2010, 11:46 PM
I am very near sighted and wear progressive lenses for daily wear. I have special shooting bi-focal lens which allows me to shoot at distances with great clarity and the reading portion to see where to record my score. I am fortunate to have access to a family owned optical company that has been in business for 3 generations. They specialize in specialty lenses as applications call for. We have been going to them for 30 years.

I sometimes will use the polarized clip-ons on the shooting glasses which are very small lenses. After an hours+wearing, it takes about 10 minutes for eyes to adjust to the daily wear glasses. I would not be W/O my shooting glasses.

9mmepiphany
December 5, 2010, 02:43 AM
I am happy to continue answering any other questions you guys have about myself or presbyopia.

-Steve

how about starting with these?
Also, why did the Zoom Focus Eyewear LLC/Trufocus people change the name of their product to Superfocus in October 2010?

Is there any input from any professional groups of ophthalmologists or optometrists that endorse the use of this gadget eyewear? Perhaps most important, have any eye care professionals -- ones that don't hesitate to identify their specific field -- signed off on this eyewear as being truly harmless?

as I mentioned earlier, I am an eye care professional

Also it looks like your training is in Mechanical Engineering, did I miss the medical training?

duns
December 5, 2010, 02:54 AM
Maybe the problem is the bifocals. I've worn glasses for over 45 years, and I didn't have any trouble until I tried shooting my silhouette pistol in the Creedmore position while wearing bifocals (which means I was looking through the bottom portion of my glasses while aiming). A switch to single vision glasses fixed that. That might be my problem and potentially my solution. I will arrange an appointment with my optician.

PS I don't want to wear special glasses for the range. Whatever I use should become my normal wear so that I can defend myself at a second's notice. I don't mind switching to bifocals when I get to work and sit in front of my computer screen.

thorazine
December 5, 2010, 04:23 AM
What experiences have you all had?

I usually keep my eyes closed at all times while shooting.

Laf'n'Larry
December 6, 2010, 12:07 AM
I was thinking along the same lines that Ironsights suggested and picked up a cheapo red dot at Cabelas today. When I got it home I found that I see two dots unless I squint really, really hard. Any ideas? Is it just time for new glasses?

Also, can anyone explain "shooting glasses"? I've heard the term all my life, but I've never known exactly what makes shooting glasses different from regular glasses.

Thanks.
Lars

russ69
December 6, 2010, 12:57 AM
...So it's not really the case that you have "no problem" if you can see the front sight clearly. You have to have some sort of picture (blurry is OK, but a complete smudge isn't) of the target and the rear sight, too...

Place the front sight in the middle of the big blurry blob, as long as your sights are aligned you'll hit the target, you really don't have to have the sharpest target image. I guess there is a point where you don't see the gray blob but your vision would be extremely poor at that point (I'm thinking legally blind).

Thanx, Russ

P.S. Use a center hold rather than a 6 o'clock hold.

Nancy Kuker
April 21, 2011, 06:17 PM
I am a new shooter. I've had lasix and read with my left eye, distance with my right. Am right handed and right eye dominant. Do I try to keep both eyes open or shut my left when I shoot? What should I try to focus on?
Thanks for your help.

teetertotter
April 21, 2011, 10:29 PM
Nancy, It is a matter of perference and work on both and see what is the best fit for you.

sc1911cwp
April 22, 2011, 08:21 PM
Just a note from an RN. If your eyes are giving you some difficulty, it is better to have a professional rule out any change to your vision related to your health BEFORE any other cause. The symptoms you suffer from may be caused by something the local GUNSMITH is not educated in. Rule that out first before taking the advice of anyone.

teetertotter
April 22, 2011, 09:00 PM
Follow-up to past post. Based on more refined shooting/lighting conditions and the fact I wanted to rid the bifocal lense, my new prescription is just for distance with light blue tent lense. The light blue tint does bring out the BLACK target against white background. I can still document my scores w/o having bifocal portion lense. Happy he determined the tint needed.
Next, when we move outdoor next month, I am supposed to have the same effect with a black target against light color backgrounds. For your information, my shooting glasses are small oval shaped, wide enough so I don't see the frame hinge at the corner when looking through the scope with both eyes open. I'm going to like these new lenses. Price - $160.00 for new lenses using same Silhoutte wire rim frame. My optrometrist knows what exact tint requirements are required after he has all the facts. I am also under a roof cover when shooting outdoors, presenting low light conditions.
I am pretty happy.

jiminhobesound
April 22, 2011, 10:32 PM
I had have a cataract removed from my dominant eye when I was 54. The implant is focused at 27 inches. I tried shooting with my astigmatic left eye, with corrective glasses, and still had problems. So I limit my target shooting to handguns at relatively close ranges shooting with both eyes open.

teetertotter
April 23, 2011, 09:53 AM
I had have a cataract removed from my dominant eye when I was 54. The implant is focused at 27 inches. I tried shooting with my astigmatic left eye, with corrective glasses, and still had problems. So I limit my target shooting to handguns at relatively close ranges shooting with both eyes open.
I have been very fortunate with torn retina in right eye perfectly repaired with lazer surgery 8 years ago. I have the makings of a cataract in the same eye, but been a level 3 for 8 years or so. I am left eye dominate with 900 with right eye at 400, so extremely nearsighted. I also shoot left handed. My S&W 22a pistol is also scoped with a Nikon Buckmaster 4-14, BDC, and good out to max 77 meters for metalicl silhouette league.
Winter indoor practice paper is at 50 feet and still would not be without scope vs iron sight class league. My eye sight has always been most important and have checked every year due to family history.

revjen45
April 23, 2011, 02:07 PM
As one ages the ability to focus up close deteriorates, thus losing the ability to focus on the front sight. Optx 20/20 stick-on bifocals work well for me. It is a plastic lens that you wet and place on the glasses you are wearing. When it dries (not too long) you have correction at the right place on your shooting (or regular) glasses. To remove, a couple of drops of water releases the stick-on. This is not spam - I have no fiduciary interest in the product, and I do not play an ophthalmologist on TV.

Caitlin
June 3, 2011, 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.h
I am happy to continue answering any other questions you guys have about myself or presbyopia.
-Steve

how about starting with these?

Quote:
Also, why did the Zoom Focus Eyewear LLC/Trufocus people change the name of their product to Superfocus in October 2010?

Is there any input from any professional groups of ophthalmologists or optometrists that endorse the use of this gadget eyewear? Perhaps most important, have any eye care professionals -- ones that don't hesitate to identify their specific field -- signed off on this eyewear as being truly harmless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.h
as I mentioned earlier, I am an eye care professional

Also it looks like your training is in Mechanical Engineering, did I miss the medical training?

Hi All,

Full disclosure: I am a shooter and I work with Superfocus. I am also one of the moderators of http://shoot.superfocus.com, the online community for shooters who are overcoming presbyopia.

I appreciate the great discussion here about vision needs and shooting, and I would like to present some facts about Superfocus and answer some of the questions posed previously.

In regards to the first question, Superfocus changed its name from Zoom Focus Eyewear LLC/Trufocals in October 2010 as part of a brand renovation. The brand change was inspired by conversations between Superfocus LLC (formerly Zoom Focus Eyewear LLC) and its users, during which a universal customer experience became evident: most reported an “awakening” or an ‘ah-ha’ moment upon trying the glasses. Over and over again, consumers used the words “super” and “super focus” to describe their newfound focal ability.

In regards to the second question, eye care professionals across the country have begun offering Superfocus in their practices. You can see the full list of dispensing eye care providers here (http://www.superfocus.com/participating-eye-care-practitioners). I am also happy to put you in touch with some eye care professionals who strongly endorse Superfocus.

Recently, Superfocus was further validated by NASA when it certified the glasses for use in space. You can read the full story here (http://www.space.com/10993-shuttle-astronauts-test-eyeglasses.html).

In regards to the third question, Superfocus was invented by Dr. Stephen Kurtin as the culmination of twenty years of development. Dr. Kurtin holds S.B. and S.M. degrees from MIT and a Ph.D. in applied physics from Caltech.

Superfocus are adjustable focus glasses (not multifocal glasses) that mimic the focusing action of the human eye. Also, they are very popular amongst shooters. You can read what NRA editor and pro shooter Chip Lohman had to say about them here: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201008/index.php#/8.

Superfocus allows the user to adjust the focus of their lens instantly. Unlike bifocals or even the most advanced progressive lenses, the region of sharp focus is not limited to a small zone, but instead spans a user’s entire field of vision. There are simply no zones of fuzziness, blur or distortion. The result is a complete solution for presbyopia, eliminating any need to carry multiple pairs of glasses or suffer the negative side effects of bifocals and progressives.

Each Superfocus "lens" is actually a set of two lenses, one flexible and one conventionally firm. The flexible lens (near the eye) has a transparent distensible membrane attached to a clear rigid surface. The space between the membrane and the clear rigid surface holds a small quantity of clear optical fluid. As a user moves the slider on the bridge, the fluid is pushed forward to alter the shape of the membrane, thereby altering the flexible lens. Changing the shape of the flexible lens changes its focus, mimicking the performance of the natural lens in youthful human eyes. Superfocus technology allows users to adjust their focus at any distance and under any lighting conditions. The result: clear, undistorted vision over a wide field of view without any zones or lines in the lens.

The second (front) lens holds the user’s prescription and latches onto the frame, held firmly in place by a patented system of tiny magnets. It is quick and easy to snap off one set of front lenses and replace them with another.

Many shooters have found Superfocus to be an ideal solution for their shooting (and everyday) vision needs.

Happy Shooting,
Caitlin

hermannr
June 3, 2011, 07:07 PM
I too am having the "older eye" focus problem. My standard lenses are -3.00 so I can see the sights fine without any glasses, However, with 100M Silhouettes, past the chicken, I cannot see the target at all without my glasses. With the glasses I can see the targets, but the sights are very fuzzy.

My neighbor has a Beretta .22 with a red dot scope (do not know the brand and he won't be back for another month so I can't just ask) that worked really well. The dot was very clear and bright and easily adjustable...my problem is...how do I mount something like that to my 6" colt revolver? a High Standard Trophy or Olympic? a CZ-52? or a CZ-75 compact?

No, I am not going to drill and tap any of them for special mounts.

moonpie
June 3, 2011, 09:07 PM
try shooting with trifocals sometime. best money i ever spent was when i started using fiber optic sights (hiviz and Williams firesights). now i can hit with or w/o my glasses

teetertotter
June 3, 2011, 09:16 PM
Herman, you might want to consider a SW 22a, 7-1/2 inch barrel or 6 inch. I have a Nikon Buckmaster, BDC, 4-14X40 with weaver type rings. No modifying and I shoot pistol metallic silhouette every Wednesday eve.

Last Fall I went back to the lense place [Fluegge Optical] who fills my prescriptions and asked for shooting lenses as they also specialize in this area too. He made up my lenses designed for distance from my original prescription and modified. He said, try these out and report back.
I reported back and cost me $100.00. This past winter I told him I wanted the bifocal illiminated and just have for distance. Left eye is 900+ and right eye is 500+ which is very high near sightedness with stigmatism. He also examined my club shooting range conditions, bright sun, under cover, type background....etc and came up with new lenses with Lt. blue tint. I also shoot NRA SB metallic silhouette. First, if you want to see a target clearly and distinctly at 100 meters, you need a scope with superb optics to begin with and then the right glasses second. Simple as that. I am fortunate I have access to an optical firm that has experience in all fields of optics.

Remember, buy a mfgs scope noted for optical quality, FIRST. Some make different grades too and don't settle for less. My scope at 20X at 100 meters can see a .22LR paper hole with my regular prescription. I get an added bonus in a bit more clarity when comes to black target against sand burm background with shooting prescription glasses. Remember too, there are lense people and REAL lense makers who are all not the same. Even when comes to your regular prescription lenses. My regular prescription lenses are of HI Index and progressive, not cheap. I have Silhouette[Mfg]
wireless frames as puts the lenses closest to your eyes which produces better vision. Frames are not cheap either.

Sorry for rambling, but might be useful information for those that want the best vison with the right lenses and frames with or without poor eye sight.

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