The Best Mosin Nagant?


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Adam123
November 19, 2010, 08:30 AM
I got a Roamian PSL and absolutely love it, but would like a nice bolt rifle to sit next to it. I have been looking at Mosin Nagants (and other bolt action rifles chambered in the 7.62 x 54) for quite some time and I am not sure what way to go. There seems to be so many different years/models/etc. Is there one particular model that is notorious for shooting the best? What's the most common and easiest 7.62x54 rifle to find aftermarket parts for in order to upgrade? Are Mosin's currently being manufactured new? Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks for looking and have a good one.

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thisisoriginal
November 19, 2010, 08:33 AM
I own two 91/30s, honestly they shoot amazing. Ive never used any other mosins, but its kind of hit or miss unless you can try the gun out before you buy it.


I traded my shotguns for my mosins and couldn't be happier. One is a 1931, one is a 1936, couldn't be happier with their accuracy.

XxWINxX94
November 19, 2010, 08:41 AM
I own 2 mosins and am very happy with both.
I don't think they are being made new, theres just too many old ones!
The Finnish version called the M39 I believe, was built to a higher standard than the Russian ones, and has been known to be a little more accurate. However, these cost more than your $100 Russian jobs.

thisisoriginal
November 19, 2010, 08:58 AM
..And another thing, for some reason up here in Northeast ohio(not sure where you live if it would be the same) the prices of mosins has gotten a lot higher. Local dealers sell for 180$-$200, best you could find a 91/30 would be about $150+. So dont get discouraged if you feel everyone on here thinks they're not worth as much as you'll be paying, but then again watch closely at a lot and see if its a trend and not just a dealer/private party asking too much.

W.E.G.
November 19, 2010, 09:50 AM
You can't go wrong.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/bubbanagant.jpg

timfromohio
November 19, 2010, 10:09 AM
thisoriginal - I was at the show in Medina last weekend and you could pick them up for $90 with all the fixin's.

nathan
November 19, 2010, 10:21 AM
For a cheap short carbine with a big wallop, the M 91/59 shines out . And it s a good shooter too. Perfect for the outdoors man on a budget in bear country. Using Barnaul 203 gr SP. it will be perfect brush gun against tough critters.

thisisoriginal
November 19, 2010, 10:52 AM
I was meaning up here closer to the Genevea-mentor-eastlake, but thats cool. Were they pretty beat up?

thisisoriginal
November 19, 2010, 10:53 AM
Eh, what did you do to that mosin WEG? :O

candr44
November 19, 2010, 10:59 AM
A tacticool Mosin Nagant. What next a tacticool muzzle loader?

It looks like someone has too much time on their hands and money to waste.

thisisoriginal
November 19, 2010, 11:06 AM
If he wanted to make it look like that-Cool, its his gun.


But IMO, that thing is ugly and I wouldn't ever do that.

offthepaper
November 19, 2010, 12:19 PM
Adam

I own quite a few Mosins. Great rifles for the money, but they are not target rifles. They were made to hit/kill a man (think Nazi) size object and do that quite well. There are no new Mosins currently being made. Russian Mosins are pretty much hit or miss. I own more than 15 or so and there are a few standouts in the crowd. I have '32 Tula that shoots almost as well as my K31. I also have a few that make shotgun-like targets at 100 yds. The Finn Mosins are considered the cream of the crop. I have 5 and everyone of them is a shooter. I personally have never seen a Finn Mosin that was not a good shooter, I'm sure there are some out there with badly worn barrels or crowns, but the ones I have seen are impressive for military rifles. The Russians can be had for about $100. the Finns will go for $300-$400 for a good one. Handloading ammo can make both even better shooters.

Either way, get em while they're cheap. The supply won't last forever.

Cosmoline
November 19, 2010, 12:26 PM
I've owned dozens and dozens of Mosins of all types. The very best I know of are the Finnish and the Polish. The most valuable collector pieces now are the true snipers and the pre-war Finns. Among these the famous Civil Guard Finnish rifles are the most accurate.

If you want to get a high quality shooter that's still reasonably priced, get an M39 Finn or an M30 Finn. The M39 is the army version of the Civil Guard 28/30 with some alterations. It's a very tough rifle with a nice heavy barrel and excellent sights. My current shooter is one made in 1970. The M30's are the Finnish version of the 91/30 and are a few pounds lighter than the M39 but also quite accurate.

Another good option would be the late model M91 Finns from the 1940's. These were the last of the old style m91 Mosins, and do suffer from that ultra-fine sight. But if you have young eyes you can really drive tacks with them. Hayha's M28 guard rifle had the old style sights, and he shot 500 men.

to find aftermarket parts for in order to upgrade?

Keep in mind that if you do get a Finn, they've ALREADY upgraded it for you with a better barrel and improved furnishings. The most I ever do with mine is stick Mojo sights on it because my eyes are now 40.

Bending the bolt, trying to fit a receiver scope on them, etc. is like trying to put you-know-what on a bull. And it misses the point of them. With practice you can work the straight bolt very fast--much faster than any long bent bolt. The trick is to do a fluid back-and-forth movement using your main arm muscles rather than gripping it with your fingers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwdxIHLldlA

They're also great rifles to use for getting off the bench and practicing the stances.

timfromohio
November 19, 2010, 01:24 PM
thisisoriginal - nope, they looked nice - clean bores, decent wood (not laminated stock however). I do not own any (yet) and am by means an expert, but had I not made other purchases I would have had no trouble paying $90 a piece and getting several of them. I was looking at 91/30's, hex receiver, all matching numbers, with bayonet, sling, etc. Seemed like a really good deal. I did not see many carbine models though. I have shot one (a 91/30) once and had no trouble knocking down targets at 100 and even 200 yards (and am not an experienced shooter) shooting from a bench. The bolt was a bit sticky to operate - I don't know if they are all like this or not. For $90, I would not care.

thisisoriginal
November 19, 2010, 01:32 PM
Wow sounds like you found an awesome deal! You should have picked one up. Up here in Mentor they go for 179$ at Gander

Blue Brick
November 19, 2010, 01:39 PM
Cosmoline's Channel is funny!! "Bear Charge"

Sgt.Saputo
November 19, 2010, 01:46 PM
A tacticool Mosin Nagant. What next a tacticool muzzle loader?

It looks like someone has too much time on their hands and money to waste.
Already been done. I was at Niles a while back and someone had a muzzle loader with picatinny rails. It was tacticooled out with a $2,000 ACOG, laser, and flashlight.

timfromohio
November 19, 2010, 01:57 PM
thisisoriginal - check out www.classicarms.us

They have nice looking 91/30's for around $100 -with shipping and FFL fee you should still be a lot cheaper than $179. Alternatively, there is a guy out of Kent (who is usually at the show in Medina, although I did not see him last weekend): Arlan's Gun and Ammo shop, (330)673-5133. He seems to specialize in Russian rifles and in the past has had a nice selection of both 91/30's as well as the carbines. Last year his prices were around $115 or $120 a piece.

timfromohio
November 19, 2010, 01:58 PM
All this Mosin talk - I might be calling Arlan's this afternoon! If I blow the budget this month, it all you guys' fault!!!

thisisoriginal
November 19, 2010, 02:15 PM
Nice! If I didn't have two 91/30s already I'd pick another up. although I sometimes do consider selling the mauser and getting another!

Blue Brick
November 19, 2010, 03:34 PM
Look here....

http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/c/collectors-corner/cPath/384?osCsid=935d8295c79211516bcc9a9b7fc0ce2f

writerinmo
November 19, 2010, 08:05 PM
I just recently broke in my new 03FFL with a 91/30 purchase from Classic Arms. Waaaaay down on their Mosin section they have a section that says "Value priced". I went with the Tula choice for ten bucks more, and four days later and $96.00 on my card (No transfer fees with the C&R!) the Big Brown Truck brought me a very nice 1942 Tula arsenal round reciever with all numbers matching except for the magazine floorplate. Since it was intended as a shooter, not a collector, no biggie.

A half day of cleaning cosmoline and it was ready to shoot. Russian surplus ammo, 147gr silvertip. I have to say that it's an excellent shooter, couldn't shoot past 50 yards at the time but you could cover all five shots with a 3 inch circle easy, and I know as I learn the gun it will get lots better. I stoned the sear smooth, floated the barrel and installed a slack spring, and hoping to shoot it again on turkey day. Have to say, I will buy another from Classic as soon as I can squirrel away another 100 bucks!

CHEVELLE427
November 19, 2010, 08:08 PM
i have a 91-30 , and 2 m44's

all are great looking for a good price on a finn now

timfromohio
November 20, 2010, 06:45 AM
writerinmo - so, all C&R firearms can be shipped without FFL? That saves anywhere from $25 to $35 per rifle!

CHEVELLE427
November 20, 2010, 08:26 AM
writerinmo - so, all C&R firearms can be shipped without FFL? That saves anywhere from $25 to $35 per rifle!

lets point out.


you can buy old guns with a c&r but not to resell as a business you still have to keep a log of guns in and out.

don't thing you can buy a crate of what ever and turn them for any profit anytime soon.

my understanding is yes you can sell them but not like a FFL does, you need to hold on to them for some time or your dealing without a licenses.


someone correct me if im wrong here. wouldnt want someone to get a c&r and think they can make any money on gun sales

timfromohio
November 20, 2010, 08:31 AM
I wouldn't be interested in purchasing with the intent to re-sell, just avoid the hassle and expense of transfers. However, given the volume of purchasing I do, it's probably easier to just cough up the transfer fee rather than get a C&R license.

CHEVELLE427
November 20, 2010, 09:05 AM
u will save a lot and get discount at places like midway,

91-30 are say $69 and shipped to your door for $12-20

CnRnut
November 20, 2010, 09:30 AM
http://www.gunsnammo.com/

Get an antique with new bore shipped to your door.

Adam123
November 20, 2010, 05:26 PM
CnRNut, that is a very nice link, containing some gems. Thank you very much.

This one tickled my fancy: http://www.gunsnammo.com/30338X.htm

killchain
November 20, 2010, 07:32 PM
Buy an M1938 Carbine.

I absolutely love mine.

Cosmoline
November 21, 2010, 03:30 PM
Cosmoline's Channel is funny!! "Bear Charge"

That cub was much bigger in person ;-)

ball3006
November 21, 2010, 06:51 PM
The Finn M39 is the best Mosin Nagant. Overall, the Finn Mosin Nagants are more accurate than all of the others. I have a M39 that shoots 1/2 inch groups all day long. It has a Darrell scout mounted scope. Old eyes. I also have a Finn 1937 Izzy 91/30 that will do one inch groups, along with a Finn 1943 91/30 with a Tikka barrel that will do the same. I also have a Remington M91 that will shoot under 2 in groups. One thing to remember, to shoot that accurate you need alot of practice....chris3

Ignition Override
November 21, 2010, 08:16 PM
As for the nicer MN 44s, the experienced owners I know always prefer the quality of the Polish or Hungarians. The only attractive 44s at Memphis area gun shows are almost always Polish.

My friend brought his beautiful Hungarian to the river bank today, and while standing placed two shots into a 2" group on a feral pumpkin from about 75 yards.
Not bad while standing, using just arms? And he used the same surplus Bulgarian ammo which made 6" groups from just 50 yards in my two common Russian 44s, from a bench rest. The Hungarian is so much better, and with No bench rest etc.

SniperJon
November 21, 2010, 08:29 PM
I have 3 m44's and 1 91/30, it's not a mosin if it's over 120 bucks and doesn't have a bayonet...but seriously they are some of my favorite rifles (and I own some much more expensive ones.) would never tell someone not to buy one.

halogrinder
November 21, 2010, 08:32 PM
i have a few myself. i like my M44 for its versatility. it will go out to however far you want, its short, it makes great fire balls, you can kick someones teeth out with the butt stock, and stab someone with the bayonet.

i have a 91/30, but its in rough shape in comparison. my m44 broke the trigger spring though :cuss:

now i gotta fix that- and the 91/30 you practically have to kick the ****ing bolt open, but thats pretty 91/30 standard :D

MrWesson
November 21, 2010, 08:37 PM
I like the M38

Fonzie2k
November 21, 2010, 08:51 PM
Sportsmans Den in Shelby Ohio has 91/30s for <$100. Nice ones too, imports by R-Guns.

I looked at a bunch and the barrels were all in good shape, the staff is helpful. I bought mine there and its probably my favorite thing ever.

Bill B.
November 21, 2010, 09:05 PM
The Best Mosin Nagant?

I like the M44's but as to if it's the best I have no idea. I would suggest spending some time here for some great information on the Mosin's: http://www.7.62x54r.net/

Ignition Override
November 22, 2010, 01:17 AM
You guys near Clarkesville, TN can sometimes find fresh, gleaming 91/30s (coated in cosmoline), lying in a crate at TN Gun Country.

The gun shop is a mile south of the main gate at Ft. Campbell.

thisisoriginal
November 22, 2010, 10:45 AM
Has anyone every cut the wood off the of the stock that is covering the barrel? I removed the stock yesturday and clean all the cosmoline off of everything but the stock is sorta roached. Since its a good shooter and not a collector item I might just sand the stock, stain and then clear coat it.

Adam123
December 9, 2010, 05:13 PM
I've decided on a Finnish Mosin. Now, I have a question to pose regarding them: Which Finnish Mosin is more likely to give me the best accuracy... a Finn that was made in the 40's that's in excellent condition or an unissued, late 60's Finn that was never fired and is, more or less, new.

oasis618
December 9, 2010, 05:25 PM
The M44 is my favorite. I like the carbine length and balance.

Hawksnest
December 9, 2010, 10:52 PM
The Finns made a great rifle based on the Russians' Mosin-Nagant called the M38. A Finnish sniper nicknamed "The White Death" used the M38 against invading Russians in the 1930s, allegedly claiming hundreds of kills.

Coal Dragger
December 9, 2010, 10:58 PM
Not to cast disparaging comments on Simo's work, but he did it against poorly trained conscripts.

As for the Mosin, meh. I have experience with one M44, and other than being cheap I could find no redeeming features. Crappy stock fit, horrendous trigger, not terribly impressive accuracy. So they're cheap, hooray.

caribou
December 10, 2010, 12:02 AM
The Finn M-39 is the Apex of Mosin Variations.

Put some decent $$ into one and you will not be dissapointed, accuracy, trigger, sights and overall balance/feel is awssome, as well as the side mounted sling for an easier carry.


If you can have only one MosinNagant for shooting, Mine would be an M-39.:D

A Historian
December 10, 2010, 12:35 AM
If you find you might be having issues finding a Finnish Mosin, don't be afraid to still go down to the nearest Dunham's and pick up a Mosin from there. Just be sure to examine the rifle and look for obvious flaws: Counter-boring, bad rifling, etc. etc. If you really want to be picky, do some research on some of the tell-tale signs of how to differentiate rifles that were made pre-war from those that were war-time expedients.

This is what a Brother-in-law and I did last year for him, and afterward we went out to the range with surplus ammo where I managed to get 1.5 MOA.

This doesn't mean all Mosins are capable of doing this, but there are those out there that certainly are - you just have to know what you're looking for so you don't up getting one that looks fine, but otherwise just shoots patterns, rather than groups.

As an end-note, be sure you know what you want in terms of standard length, or carbine length. Carbine lengths are a bit more convenient for handling, but if recoil and flash are going to be an issue for you (or those around you) then I recommend the standard length. The main downside with the standard length is that it can be a bit unwieldy to have to deal with on a hunt, or trying to squeeze into a blind.

Adam123
December 10, 2010, 10:52 AM
Thanks for the input guys. I am probably going to buy from this guy: http://www.gunsnammo.com/ as he seems top have the best price/product quality combination that I've seen. So, do you guys have any input to offer in terms of the 1940's Finn vs the late 1960's Finn?

Cosmoline
December 10, 2010, 12:45 PM
Yes, I have some input on that. I've owned quite a few of both types. The late-model M39's from the 60's and early 70's have all been very good to excellent shooters with the ammo they favor. Usually good quality light ball. With handloads you can usually get some near MOA or better groups. I've had problems gearing them to work with the D-166 loads for some reason. They seem to favor light ball so maybe that's what they were being built for. Also the bores are sometimes a little on the tight side so you can shoot .308" bullets in them to great effect. My current 1970 is doing remarkably well with Barnes .308" TSX, but cruddy with the usual stock of .311" and 312" sierras and horn. bullets. It has expensive tastes. I'd say these are more collectible in general, but there were also some really rare subtypes of M39 during the war like the Tikkas and the straight bolts The only big drawback with these is they tend to have cosmoline-infected stocks because they were never given a wood finish before being dunked in the grease. If you get one, get one with a DARK looking stock, not the blonde one. The dark ones did get some covering for the grain so they're not nearly as inflitrated with grease. I had a blonde stock that I swear had two or three pounds of cosmoline inside its grain. Took over a year to leach most of it out slowly and it got lighter and lighter!

The M39's from the Continuation War era obviously include quite a few in well-worn condition with used bores. Do watch for splitting in the wrist of the stock. They were running low on good wood by that point or something, because split wrists crop up. I've had good luck repairing them with rods and glue, but you can see the repair marks. In very general terms these seem to do better with the heavy ball than the late model ones. But as always each Mosin is a new slate and you have to figure out what it likes. You will often find a series of shims in these which were used to tune the rifle to the load they were using at that time. Overall, though, I'd say the average accuracy of the wartime M39's is not as good as the late model so-called "sneaks." This is doubtless due to the wear and tear of combat. If I were to get a wartime M39 I'd get one of the SKY Civil Guard models, because they tended to be pickier about their rifles than the regular army.

I have had no dogs with any of them, compared with a pretty high amount of barking with Soviet Mosins. I avoid the fixer-upper ones these days and try to get the most pristine. The guy your looking at there is a great seller and I've bought from him five or six times in the past. He doesn't try to sneak in junk--he tells you exactly what you're getting.

Personally, off that list, I'd get this one in spite of its high tag:

"Unissued 100% original blue, blazing new bore, matching bolt, unnumbered floor plate and a sky 43 war time stock in new condition."

Tom609
December 10, 2010, 10:02 PM
I recently got an "unissued with new barrel" M39 from Pat Burns. It's as accurate as my 03a3. I wouldn't hesitate getting another. I agree with what some others have said...the M39 is the best.

BTW, Pat Burns at Guns & Ammo is a woman.

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