Thinnest skin American? winner: Californians


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springwalk
November 23, 2010, 12:05 AM
When it comes to the award to the thinnest skinned Americans the honor clearly goes to those from CALIFORNIA. Naturally, I dont have anything against the Left coast as I live here too just to the north in Oregon. Yet when I discuss gun rights with those from Cali they seem so biitter:(. Many, even though I suspect they are on our side, they tend to crazily justify the laws they live under as though its the way our Founders intended. Puzzling. Do Californians have a case of Stockholm syndrome? Why would any true American loving freedom seeker embrace the action of California legislator? Is the nature of humans to justify what controls them?

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Hardtarget
November 23, 2010, 12:16 AM
I have never lived in any state other than Tennessee...except for 18 months in '69-'70. Didn't know anyone there so I only shot and hunted while home on break. Tenn. is still mostly pro gun and I have many friends that are rabid pro gun...so I can't really understand the sheep mentality. Don't even want to, either. It just makes me want to :banghead:

:D

Mark

hso
November 23, 2010, 12:26 AM
There's no percentage in this approach to discussing California/California Gun Laws/Californians.

There are dedicated RKBA folks in California continuing the struggle against tough dedicated opposition and those folks do not deserve our criticism, but instead deserve our support.

If you've spent any time in California, playing or working, you'll have to admit it is one of the most beautiful states in the country. That's a big part of what keeps native Californians there. If your company has an office (or offices) there you know that it is also where a lot of folks make a very good living. These days that's nothing to turn your nose up at.

So when you ask why anyone stays in California ask yourself instead why would a dedicated RKBA advocate who lives in a beautiful state and who has a good job abandon such a place to a bunch of antis?

springwalk
November 23, 2010, 12:37 AM
My 5 months living in California included 1 month in the desert serving to train for the Army under NTC, also a 4 month backpack adventure along the Pacific Crest Trail from the mexico border to the Canadian border. I can say, along with the rabid northeast on the Appalachian Trail, theres no place more needing in carrying protection. Oddly, none of these places extend the liberty of one to carry for protection:fire:. Yes, I despise blue states:(.

hso
November 23, 2010, 12:53 AM
See, 4 months hiking the Pacific Crest Trail (that's an impressive feat!) isn't going to give an accurate impression of the whole state of California or even all Californians any more than an AT hike is going to show the whole of the states it meanders through (I've only section hiked the AT). It did give you a solid idea that the state isn't just the urban jungles that only part of the population lives in. There are a lot of rural Californians who feel like most of the members here do, but they're not the ones organized and putting anti's in office.

springwalk
November 23, 2010, 12:55 AM
HSO, if you dont like criticism of Cali then you need to do some research as there is no need for the excesive legislation, but more freedoms for protection given the diverse population of criminals that reside in the Golden State. Its easy to defend when you dont reside in a state of degeneracy.

wvshooter
November 23, 2010, 01:02 AM
California has a lot of problems but the biggest is the exodus of employers to other states. Arizona, Texas and Idaho should be sending California's legislature thank you cards. How do you spell D E F A U L T

omegaflame
November 23, 2010, 01:22 AM
As a CA resident, I find that CA residents are the most accepting of anything (pro gay marriage, pro-choice, pro gun-rights)

The problem is that in the super-urban and suburban environments they tend to be anti-gun (see soccer moms). This also affects the politicians because of the gang problems and wanting to appear "tough on crime." The problem is people only buy that gun control helps for so long before they figure they're being duped (some of them anyway).

Also I'd like to add that this OP doesn't seem to be inviting a discussions other than "let's all bash CA residents"

"let's all bash CA gun laws" is fine with me, but I don't see a reason for this thread.

elcaminoariba
November 23, 2010, 01:31 AM
Is the nature of humans to justify what controls them?
YES!

I just watched a very high budget and slick commercial by our state government owned transportation "authority" using my sales tax dollars to show me how impressive "their" buses and trains are, and nagging me to go and pay to ride what I've paid for with my taxes a thousand times over, instead of taking my car straight to my destination. Earlier we were driving around town and had to wait because one of these empty buses was hogging the road and going slow as it spewed pollution into the air, I guess so we could all see and appreciate the humongous advertisements on all four sides of the empty behemoth.

Yes is the unequivocal answer to that question and as I just explained, it aint just california.

springwalk
November 23, 2010, 01:51 AM
elcamin, at least theres someone who sees what I see:). Its getting to be quite disturbing how easily even fellow "conservative white males" have become tools for excessive socialism. I live in a major retreat for Californians here in Oregon and the stupidity of justification is maddening for what Cali has become. In one sentence they admit how lousy their guns rights are there and also mention how good it is that they cant own hi-capacity magazines:uhoh:. ***! I've met Europeans & Canadians the same. I really dont believe the answer is to defend and hope for places like Cali, New Jersey, York, Massachusetts and Illinois will magically embrace the 2nd Amend. The answer is to view them as a cancer and begin to isolate for surgery, seriously. You are crazy to think they will change for what the Founders intended. I see the cancer spreading here in the Pacific NorthWest, today.

Mountainman38
November 23, 2010, 01:58 AM
HSO, if you dont like criticism of Cali then you need to do some research as there is no need for the excesive legislation, but more freedoms for protection given the diverse population of criminals that reside in the Golden State. Its easy to defend when you dont reside in a state of degeneracy.

So no one living in California is allowed to defend the state, then? :confused: What sort of logic is that?

I spent the first 30 or so years of my life in California, and attitudes like yours are just silly. I knew lots of people who hunted and fished and enjoyed shooting, just like folks in other states do. I grew up in the very rural parts of northern and central California, and I can say that the whole stereotype of Californians as wealthy liberals who hate the constitution and welcome draconian gun laws is nonsense. There may be some of them, and they may be in power, but they sure don't represent the whole state. There are lots of people working to preserve what few rights they have left, and slowly regain some of what's been taken from them.

I will say that I am very glad that I live in Washington now, and I can't imagine what it would be like to move back to California and not be able to carry my gun with me.

What exactly are you hoping to gain from this statewide insult? Make yourself feel better by insulting someone else? What good does that do?

springwalk
November 23, 2010, 02:04 AM
mountmen, you said it. You wouldnt live in Cali today because of the state of it as they wont let you carry your protection. What good does it do to be politically correct and say Cali is a great place to live when it really isnt unless you are a leftist extremist that detests traditional family values? Lets be real, California scored a 72 by the Brady Campaign! Highest score of all states:(.

Mountainman38
November 23, 2010, 02:07 AM
mountmen, you said it. You wouldnt live in Cali today because of the state of it as they wont let you carry your protection. What good does it do to be politically correct and say Cali is a great place to live when it really isnt unless you are a leftist extremist that detests traditional family values? Lets be real, California scored a 72 by the Brady Campaign! Highest score of all states:(.

Don't try to twist what I said. I live in Washington because I married a girl who was already here, and we found it a good place to settle. We both have family in California, and you just called all of them leftist extremist liberals who detest family values. You're a jerk.

springwalk
November 23, 2010, 02:14 AM
mountmen, I didnt say all Cali was liberal nut jobs, but they did re-elect Babs Boxer after years of gubbermint downfall:confused:. Maybe your right?

al123
November 23, 2010, 02:21 AM
IMO California firearm laws are at a crossroads. Some recent restrictive legislation was turned back. AB962 (ammo law) has multiple lawsuits against it. There's a lot of fight left with the outcome unsure, but a fight is there nonetheless.

A and O
November 23, 2010, 02:25 AM
Your words have located you, and I'm not speaking of your geographic location either. I can prove that you are a slave sir. Terrible "State" to live in being a slave that thinks he's free. Nobody is more hopelessly enslaved than a slave laughing at the plight of other slaves.

As I said, I can prove what I claim. If you want to become free (Man Up) pm me and I'll show you how to become free using the THR system as a communication medium.

elcaminoariba
November 23, 2010, 02:26 AM
We can't forget the recent close victory to retain unloaded open carry. Off list lower receivers are everywhere in Cali now. I think the anti gun extremists are running out of gas in Cali. The public gave them a couple of decades to try their leftist gun ban crap, and now even the "centrist" californians are sick of it. Gay marriage and pot have taken over their time, and the latter HELPS our cause of freedom.

springwalk
November 23, 2010, 02:31 AM
A&O, you are a Californian and destine to migrate north to Oregon. Give me a jingle and I'll show you freedom. We'll have a gay(not homo) old time.

Mountainman38
November 23, 2010, 02:33 AM
Your words have located you, and I'm not speaking of your geographic location either. I can prove that you are a slave sir. Terrible "State" to live in being a slave that thinks he's free. Nobody is more hopelessly enslaved than a slave laughing at the plight of other slaves.

As I said, I can prove what I claim. If you want to become free (Man Up) pm me and I'll show you how to become free using the THR system as a communication medium.

Who on earth is this directed at?! If you want a response, try quoting the person you're talking to.

Oh yeah -- and man up?! Do you have a lot of takers using this line? :rolleyes:

Librarian
November 23, 2010, 02:36 AM
We've got lots of problems.

But we're working on fixing them.

See the Calguns Foundation (http://calgunsfoundation.org/).

A and O
November 23, 2010, 02:45 AM
And the slaves cry....

Any responses on this forum are to the OP. Thread Rules 101

9mmepiphany
November 23, 2010, 03:10 AM
The Librarian know what he is talking about

We in Ca are on the front lines in the 2A fight and we aren't losing ground. When people desert the state, for free states, we start down a slippery slope.

What you see as being thin skinned is just part of the tolerance for different points of view that CA is famous for. Our local 2A movement includes folks from all belief systems and both sides of the political system...yes there are many liberals that love their guns too. And I even know some who wouldn't own a firearm, but would defend my right to own and carry one because it is just the right thing to do.

Skribs
November 23, 2010, 03:34 AM
My Mom just visited my family in CA, and told them all what I'd just bought (my first gun). The reaction was that every man in the family (my uncles and male cousins) all showed her their guns. I don't think 2A is dead there, but I'd never live there for other reasons (I hate the weather).

Sediment
November 23, 2010, 04:00 AM
Half of my co-workers think I'm a crazy militia member because I own more than a hunting rifle and I have a large Browning safe bolted to the ground. The area I live in leans more to the "anti" side than the "accepting" side of gun rights. We narrowly escaped the vote on banning open carry, and don't think for a second they won't try again.

CA Residents: If you value your RKBA at all, get involved! Whether is be through donations, rallys, marches, or writing/calling your elected officials. Every little bit helps, even talking to folks willing to listen without sounding like a rabid gun owner wanting to shoot everything in sight.

9mmepiphany
November 23, 2010, 04:00 AM
I'd never live there for other reasons (I hate the weather).

:what:

danez71
November 23, 2010, 07:19 AM
Its easy to criticize when you dont reside in a state that generally carves a path the country tends to follow in both policy and economics.

There... fixed that for you.

You spent a few months in Ca hiking around in the mountains and now feel you have enough 1st hand knowledge of the states residents? Incredible.

This thread really donesnt have anything to do with guns. Its more liken to sitting in the recliner playing arm chair analyst for a sport that you played once in elementary school.

smallbore
November 23, 2010, 07:26 AM
I was stationed in CA (1972) for 18 mos & traveled around the state when I had the chance. Have not been back since, nor do I have any intention to ever do so.

Sam1911
November 23, 2010, 07:56 AM
Some people try to fix a leaking ship from the inside. Some jump overboard and abandon ship. Some folks on other ships offer encouragement and advice. Others just point and laugh.

Some things are worth fixing, even if you'd rather not bother. Considering that, unless CA actually does fall into the ocean, we as a nation are absolutely stuck with her whether the good folks stay and fight or they all leave and let the bad folks have utterly free reign -- I think I'll continue to cheer for the good folks, and applaud those (better men than I) who have the heart to stay and fight such a thankless battle.

We can't cut out the cancer. We either have to run away and let it fester, exporting sickness to the rest of the country at an ever increasing rate, or we have to try to heal it -- and slow or reverse the outflux of bad ideas.

---

Now to the original question: Sure folks justify the shackles they wear, more often than not. That is far from isolated to CA or from gun issues. All over the country, on any number of issues, we're told of how various limits stop bad people from harming others and keep good people from danger. Easy, glib sound-bites that allow laws to get passed and legislators to "earn" their seats. We are indignant that other shooters would believe and repeat any of those regarding gun laws, but we almost certainly all believe a few, ourselves, pertaining to other issues we haven't dedicated our lives to studying.

We can denigrate those shooters who believe in mag limits, "assault-weapons" bans, waiting periods, carry restrictions, etc. -- but the truth is, if we dedicated ourselves to the study of economics, nutrition, education, law, religion, energy, civics, travel safety, ecology, etc., etc., we'd all be heartily embarrassed at the plethora of "whoppers" we've swallowed.

Teach when you can, but don't insult, and pick your battles.

parsimonious_instead
November 23, 2010, 08:06 AM
I've loved California every time I've visited. Would love to live there - amazing, variegated terrain, and interesting cities.
I will not move there until they repeal their lousy gun laws.
I've always thought that California was a bit better than NY for firearm owners, but now it seems to be the opposite, with the restrictions on ammo purchasing and "approved" lists of firearms you can buy.

Superlite27
November 23, 2010, 08:39 AM
We can't cut out the cancer. We either have to run away and let it fester, exporting sickness to the rest of the country at an ever increasing rate, or we have to try to heal it -- and slow or reverse the outflux of bad ideas.

Or let it die and provide an example using its corpse.

I may take flak for my current opinion, (which is open for change with valid types of persuasion) but, unpopular as it may be, offers a hard solution.

I fully realize that my idea is to the detriment of gun owning Californians. I apologize for not handing you a tissue and commiserating. But I admire the tactic used by Barrett, and STI International.

Stop providing firearms to California until the guns "approved for law enforcement" are approved for the law abiding citizens as well.

I can already hear the tirade against me: "Why punish California gun owners?"......

....It's not me. It's your gov't regulations on private industry. Maybe if Glock, Sig Sauer, S&W and other manufacturers stopped providing law enforcement firearms, they will eventually get the idea when their crap starts wearing out and needs replaced.

I have no respect for companies that toe the line and will gladly make millions off California law enforcement agency contracts while their products are off limits to the general public.

I agree that it sucks for the citizens. I just think it's a "neccessary evil" to sacrifice the availability of firearms if it will eventually lead to the destruction of the "approved firearms list" for civilians.

Harley Quinn
November 23, 2010, 08:48 AM
I have friends that worked their whole life in CA have great pensions and moved, now they send me e-mails about how messed up CA is:confused:

Pretty much the way of people it seems to me...True we have a lot going for the state and a few things that some dislike...We have a lot of freedoms others don't have...Some don't like the freedoms that are accepted in CA as life styles of evil people, God will take care of you later thinkers, then you have the folks who think all should own machine guns:what: Seems to me they are many cloaked in the same hood there;)

I like the state myself, give a little bit more for taxes, and get less in ability to own machine guns...So that is life...:D

Regards

Kleanbore
November 23, 2010, 08:54 AM
How does one conclude this sweeping generalization...

When it comes to the award to the thinnest skinned Americans the honor clearly goes to those from CALIFORNIA.

...from this...

....when I discuss gun rights with those from Cali they seem so biitter.

?

I do not see the connection.

"Thinnest skinned"?

Apparently, the point is that the OP has discussed gun rights with at least some people from California with whom he disagrees. I can do that right here in Missouri, but I cannot see how that makes them "thin skinned". Across the river, the citizens of Illinois just elected a governor who opposes guns, and a Senator who feels the same way, but most of my friends from IL would really like to have the right to carry concealed.

I'll bet that's true in California, also.

I must be missing something between the lines here.

Geno
November 23, 2010, 09:12 AM
I lived in California for about 6 months, and in that extremely short time barely came to know the general map of the state, let alone the social and political framing and mindset. As such, it seems to me that 5 months would allow one even less time to internalize the makeup of a state. Oddly, over 50% of Californians seem to have a fairly conservative mindset per their Constitutional stance on gay marriage. It seems to me that the politicians are out-of-step with the population.

Whatever the case, we who live in the other 49 states can choose to throw stones at the California population, or we can choose to throw stones with them. I believe that in the end, California will be pulled mainstream, right along with the rest of the country, regarding the 2nd Amendment. In the meantime, such attacks as are found in this thread serve no positive purpose whatsoever.

Geno

Tinpig
November 23, 2010, 09:55 AM
Glad to see that some people on this forum recognize that bashing the entire population of a state is pointless.
There are many people in California, NY, Illinois, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, etc. who are openly and actively pro-RKBA. For a variety of reasons (family, jobs, friends, deep ties to an honorable heritage) we choose to stay where we are and fight the political and cultural fight from within.

Is cutting and running somehow more honorable?

Tinpig

TexasRifleman
November 23, 2010, 10:00 AM
Glad to see that some people on this forum recognize that bashing the entire population of a state is pointless.

Absolutely right. I'm having trouble understanding the point of this thread. Is there one?

ants
November 23, 2010, 10:15 AM
TX, if I recall "bashing the entire population of a state" was the Original Post.





Remember the story of three blind men describing an elephant?
One thought it was like a rope (he held the tail).
One thought it was like a wall (he felt the side of the animal).
One thought it was like a tree trunk (he had his arms around the leg).

Unfortunately, we humans draw grand generalizations from very limited exposure.

Justin
November 23, 2010, 10:17 AM
There's nothing useful in the premise of this thread.

TexasRifleman
November 23, 2010, 10:18 AM
TX, if I recall "bashing the entire population of a state" was the Original Post.

That's kind of what I thought, and that's enough of that :)

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