CCI shotshells - when did they first come out?


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nonseven
November 23, 2010, 11:11 AM
Can anyone tell me when the CCI handgun cartridge shotshells (blue plastic capsules) first hit the market?

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Jesse Heywood
November 23, 2010, 12:05 PM
From the CCI website
1957 – CCI added shotshells to the line

nonseven
November 23, 2010, 04:35 PM
From the CCI website

Quote:
1957 CCI added shotshells to the line


I saw that, but I'm finding it hard to believe those blue injection molded capsules were around in 1957. Maybe they had a crimped or another version when they were first introduced.

rcmodel
November 23, 2010, 04:39 PM
No, they were around.
I remember the blue plastic .38/.357's being around since I started shooting a .357 in 1962.

I know it's hard to believe, but injection molded Plastic was invented way before 1957!!

rc

nonseven
November 23, 2010, 04:58 PM
Well, that answers my question - I was looking for an old-timer who remembers shooting them back then. I'm well aware that injection molding was around prior to 1957 (it's my business) I just figured that the current blue capsule wouldn't have dated back that long.

So, any patents are long expired.

Why not some new sizes for handloaders? .32 cal, .500 cal, 45 cal extended length capsule for the Judge only, or 454 Casull I suppose.

The tooling is really pretty easy. But there would be some ballistics testing and you'd probably have to come up with some reloading data.

GP100man
November 23, 2010, 05:08 PM
I have a pack around here somewhere that does`nt have upc bars on it ,so that dates em to ????

I cut cards & make a home made version , also form 357Max brass to make full cyl length!!

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/shotshells-1.jpg

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0228-1.jpg

I`ve often thought of droppin the powder & card then lining the case with wax paper then sealing the end !

Ron James
November 23, 2010, 05:15 PM
They all suffer the same basic fault, from a rifled barrel, at a distance of more than a few feet, they make a nice donut pattern. Plus the power and ballistics leave something to be desired. I know for a fact at ten feet, CCI 22 Mag shot shells will not penetrate heavy cloth. Also many automatic pistols are very fussy about feeding them properly, On snakes at 5 feet or less they are deadly ( over five feet away why shoot anyway ). I have read, don't know for a fact that the Judge has very shallow rifling to compensate somewhat for the donut effect. I have used CCI shot shells since the very early 60's

rcmodel
November 23, 2010, 05:42 PM
Well the short range, poor pattern & .22 #12 shot can have a good side too.
I killed a snake on my hardwood deck with a .22 shot-cap last year.
No damage to the deck floor, but the snake was DRT.

Rattlers in the cow barn, or moccasins in the bass boat?
NO problem!
And no structural damage or leaky boat.

On the other hand, I did kill a flying mallard cripple at about 15-20 yards with a 6" S&W .357 and Speer shot-cap handload & #9 shot one time.

rc

jimmyraythomason
November 23, 2010, 05:56 PM
Rattlers in the cow barn, or moccasins in the bass boat? The Speer 38/357 snake loads I used in the early '70s were less than worthless on large cottonmouths. I finally used the remaining shotshells to take grass birds as fox bait on the trapline.

rcmodel
November 24, 2010, 01:53 PM
That has not been my experience with the evil tempered & large black water snakes (that look like moccasins), & Kansas Rattlers & Copperheads.

I carried a J-Frame loaded with CCI shot a lot of years while pond fishing and every one I shot was DRT.

Don't know I'd care to take on a 12' Timber rattler up close & personal, but they seemed to make a lasting impression on the 2'-3' footers trying to get in my hip boots with me!

rc

GP100man
November 24, 2010, 04:12 PM
rc

that`s been my exp. also , like it glues em to the ground , not even a wiggle !!


I`ve found the shorter barreled revolvers hold a better pattern than a long barreled ones .

My home brewed shells don`t extend range just delivers more shot.

Been workin on full length for the Redhawks , but prepin brass is bit of a challenge from 303brit!

suemarkp
November 24, 2010, 11:28 PM
I would like to see longer ones too. They are less than caliber diameter, so they slide through the rifling without touching it. But they must touch somehow because of the pattern. Perhaps a longer stronger capsule would provide better patterns.

Be good for Judges, 454's, 460's, 327 federal, etc. Like to see one that fits inside a 410 shotshell (basically a wad that is totally enclosed).

GP100man
November 25, 2010, 08:35 AM
The capsules are bore dia. & grab the rifling , so they spin no matter .

I feel the snubbies have better patterns because the plastic skids on the rifling a bit , maybe the first 1/2 ???

nonseven
November 25, 2010, 11:39 AM
I'd love to tool a couple of new sizes up and play around with them; I think there is a lot of room for improvement. Maybe I can get one of our ammo partners to do some testing for me. I think there is a market for some new sizes too. Like a longer 357 or 44 mag only version.

Once you tool one bottom cap, you can use it with any length capsule the same dia. Perhaps we should "vote" here and that's the first one I'll do.

I'd love to do a 45 colt "Judge" only load to take advantage of all that room. I think it does have to engage the rifling in order to break the capsule at it's predetermined serrations.

351 WINCHESTER
November 25, 2010, 03:11 PM
Forty years ago I bought some Speer .44 mag. shot loads. The plastic capsule was yellow and they worked a lot better than their .38/357.

rcmodel
November 25, 2010, 03:22 PM
Like a longer 357 or 44 mag only version.Google "Contender Hot-Shot ammo".

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=194942304

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=200444541


BTW: That second link remindeded me that many years ago, I used gel pill capsules from the druggest to load handgun shot shells. Filled with shot, and wrapped with one layer of scotch tape to hold them together, then seated over a card over-powder wad.

They don't do well in wet pockets however! :(

rc

KosmicKrunch
November 25, 2010, 04:09 PM
I still prefer the "Crimped" .38/.357 Special reloads I make to that of the CCI Shot Shells. I made my own crimping die to use in place of my seating/crimp dies. Works very well on brass cases, does not work well on plated brass. Even with the crimp, you have to use a thin card wad and some loading wax above that to seal the hole in the crimp.

Making the die insert was easy enough. They will load and eject in semi and lever guns easy enough due to the crimp acting like a bullet for the loading ramps. They work perfect in revolvers and single shots. The die is stepped, so you start the crimp, reset the plug down a bit and then partially close the crimp and then set the plug again for finial crimping. So you finish each stage for how many rounds you are doing and then move to the next step etc. I made the die plug so that easy step sets can be had by lines on the outside of the plug. Just match the plug line to the die body face and it is set. Each step is numbered on the plug

I found that if you try to just crimp a round all the way in one shot that you get crumpled cases and case body cracks even using "One Shot" case lube. The 3 step methods elimnates that. Yes takes a little more time but they really come out well. They fire at about 1000 FPS and the donut hole does not happen as the only shot that is spun are the outer ones touching the rifling as no capsul is used. The time between doing the three steps helps destress the cases and they normalize quickly between the steps while on the loading blocks.

Also you cannot reuse the brass even after annealing, the crimp places too much stress on the case and many will have even 7 x .269" long cracks in the cases from rapid expansion when fired. Since the cracks are symetrical the cases extract and eject just fine out of semi and revolvers.

Out of a Lever .38/.357 Rifle they have a really good pattern and pent is very deep. Out of a 4-6" revolver and at 10 feet, the pattern is about 6" - 8" (a few flyers to the upper right) and pent 5 waxed cardboard (MRE Box cardboard) pieces fully. For my S&W 6" model 10, POA is right on. This is using #7 1/2 lead shot, 2.9 weighed grains of Universal behind the shot, card wad and wax.

This design and formula will easilly take out most common bad boy snakes you would find except python/constrictor types in Fla, those really need at least a real .410 shotgun or larger.

PzGren
November 25, 2010, 05:41 PM
Rimfire ammo evolved out of Flobert ammo. A lot of 6mm and 9mm Flobert also existed as double shot since a long, loooooong time ago.

jimmyraythomason
November 25, 2010, 07:47 PM
Forty years ago I bought some Speer .44 mag. shot loads. The plastic capsule was yellow and they worked a lot better than their .38/357. These are the ones I used that were so disappointing. I now have some in .44 that work great on rats but I haven't tried them on snakes.

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