Cheapest way to get into Full Auto


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mopar92
November 23, 2010, 01:41 PM
I have been thinking lately that it might be a fun box to check in my life... owning a FA. I am assuming 9mm seems to be a lot of small full autos. Whats a good weapon that is full auto, reliable, and cheap compared to MP5's M16's, etc... Thanks guys...

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LiquidTension
November 23, 2010, 01:42 PM
M11/9 with a Lage upper.

www.max-11.com

TexasRifleman
November 23, 2010, 01:44 PM
Cheapest would be something like a Mac. Uzi's up a little from there. Can do those for under $10k, maybe under $5 for a Mac. At the top end of under $10k you can get into an AC556 Ruger if you shop around. Not much else below 10. Might find a Registered Lightning Link for under 10 if you shop around, but not many of those out there.

The Uzi and Mac are fun but you will hear varying stories on reliability. Personally I think the AC556 is the best deal going. There isn't another MG out there you can send back to the manufacturer and get fixed.

mopar92
November 23, 2010, 01:49 PM
Fast reply..! I am learning that the gun needs to be 1986 and older to be bought by an individual like me... not an FFL or class 3 dealer...

Mike OTDP
November 23, 2010, 01:56 PM
Walking down the list...

Mac 11/9s are the cheapest at about $3K. However, you are likely to need to put another $1000 into them to buy either a Lage upper or a suppressor...just to give you something to hold on to.

Above that are the Sten tube guns, M2 carbines, and Reisings. These are running in the $4K-$5K range. Stens are reliable but crude. M2s are expensive to feed. Reisings are reportedly OK once debugged, but you'll need aftermarket mags to get anything more than a 20-round magazine.

Then you get to the $7K range. Uzis and Sterlings. Both are pretty good. I think the Sterling has better ergonomics, but the Uzi has a wider range of accessories.

Any way you go, be sure to have a place to shoot lined up. And I strongly suggest a suppressor. You can avoid a lot of problems with a bit of discretion...and a can is discretion embodied.

Sam1911
November 23, 2010, 01:58 PM
I am learning that the gun needs to be 1986 and older to be bought by an individual like me.Yup, but you don't have to worry too much about that. The guns your SOT 03 dealer has to sell to you -- or that he can transfer in to sell to you -- are all going to be pre-86 "Transferable."

If I was looking to make this jump, I'd probably go for the Mac series as well, and save up for whatever Lage bits and pieces tickled my fancy.

There are some issues with a large number of those guns, but if you do some research on what you're getting and what it might need to be made durable/reliable, you could do all right.

The Lage parts are really what sell the idea to me. (As a stand-alone item... not so much.) The ability to make it almost any flavor of 9mm sub-gun you want is pretty appealing. 'Course, those aren't cheap parts, either.

For a bit more money Uzis are solid guns with an extensive community of fans and suppliers to help you keep the good times rollin'.

I don't think of any assault rifle as "cheap" to play with, considering the ammo is going to be something near $0.50 a shot. The ACC556s are probably the most ... responsible(?) ... choice as TR said.

About 5 years back a dealer pal of mine had a pair of FNCs that made me drool a lot. REALLY wanted one, but $9,000 was more than I could find in the couch cushions. And then he got nailed for "creatively repairing" MACs into more expensive MGs so I'm kind of glad I didn't buy anything from him. :uhoh:

jmorris
November 23, 2010, 01:59 PM
Keep your eyes open and wait for a good deal. I picked up a NIB powder springs M10 9 a year or so ago, off of subguns.com, for $2800.

Bubbles
November 23, 2010, 02:00 PM
I am learning that the gun needs to be 1986 and older to be bought by an individual like me... not an FFL or class 3 dealer...
You also need to live in a state that permits residents to own full-auto firearms. Some states do not.

jmorris
November 23, 2010, 02:03 PM
There are many over there now starting at $2900.

Here is one post with 42 different MACs listed.

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=17906&query=retrieval

Sam1911
November 23, 2010, 02:10 PM
Oh my!

http://www.dealernfa.com/A6038_Armalite_AR18.html

Less than $9K. *sigh*

ghitch75
November 23, 2010, 04:06 PM
lots of goody's here......go shoppin'!!!

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi

CleverNickname
November 23, 2010, 05:37 PM
The cheapest way is to inherit it. You don't pay for the gun, and it transfers tax-free, even interstate, so you don't have to pay an SOT for their services either.

Of course it does require that someone close to you have the foresight to buy the gun and then will it to you when they die...

mopar92
November 23, 2010, 05:55 PM
I think that Mac is right down my alley... always thought it was a great Miami Vice gun, 9mm, parts seem to be around... and as some said earlier, that Lage site has some hop ups for it. I guess slowing down the ROF makes them more reliable too?

mopar92
November 23, 2010, 06:01 PM
So, I find it strange that there are tons of NIB Mac's out there.... who were these made for and why are so many still NIB.... good site(sub guns)... thanks...

JTW Jr.
November 23, 2010, 06:22 PM
under $10K?
Uzi
Mac
S&W 76
Sten
Sterling
Reising

THE MACHINIST
November 23, 2010, 08:29 PM
you can totally shoot out a ruger 556 and its still factory serviced. try that with any other gun.......$7,000+

Poprivit
November 23, 2010, 08:39 PM
Note: Ruger is no longer servicing the AC-556. They say the s/n 180xxx to 191xxx parts are non-existent. I just sold my MAC-11 .380 for $3200 and my AC-556 for $7000. Go with an AC-556 - works all the time and is a full MG, not a sub-gun.

Sam1911 - was the guy doing creative work on MACs putting their s/n on Browning
1919A4 sideplates? I almost ended up with one of those, but ATF showed up and confiscated the gun. The agent says ATF strings det cord through the barrel and action. Poof! No more 1919A4. Too bad, but I got my $13,500 back from the seller.

Sam1911
November 23, 2010, 08:43 PM
Well, I don't know who did what with what, exactly, but that was the gist of the issue. There was a thread a while back that talked about it. The guy I knew is in Annapolis, MD, but there were something like 20 people involved, a lot of them out in AZ or NV, from what I remember.

THE MACHINIST
November 23, 2010, 09:00 PM
Ruger is no longer providing service for the AC556. This should not be a concern as the guns are very reliable. Most parts interchange with the Mini 14 semi auto. Almost all parts for the Mini 14 are available from Brownells. They have an online schematic that shows all parts. Their parts are very inexpensive. david spiwac

pikid89
November 23, 2010, 09:06 PM
will the AC556 work with a mini 14 22LR kit?
what about the mac10/11

ghitch75
November 23, 2010, 09:08 PM
look on the site i posted......AC556 for mid 5k......

Billy Shears
November 23, 2010, 09:37 PM
I think that Mac is right down my alley... always thought it was a great Miami Vice gun, 9mm, parts seem to be around... and as some said earlier, that Lage site has some hop ups for it. I guess slowing down the ROF makes them more reliable too?
You might want to think a while before opting for the MAC. I have a colleague who owns one, and I've shot it. It's virtually uncontrollable. The rate of fire is so high, the gun is so light, and there is so little to hold onto, that even firing short bursts a mere ten to fifteen yards away, three quarters of a 30 round magazine didn't hit a man sized target. The gun I fired has a suppressor, but unless you have an asbestos glove, you can't hold onto that because it quickly heats up. I shot the thing at Blackwater (now Xe) range in Moyock when my department was rebuilding our pistol range, and we had to go there to train and qualify one year. Several of us fired the MAC, and I actually had one of the better hit ratios, and I missed far more than I hit. It made the experience a lot less satisfying.

I'd save up a just little more and get a STEN or a Mk. 760 (Copy of the Swedish Carl Gustav M/45). They're not much more than a MAC, and being both larger, and having a slower rate of fire, they'll be a lot more controllable, and therefore more fun to shoot.

Sam1911
November 23, 2010, 10:26 PM
You might want to think a while before opting for the MAC. ... It's virtually uncontrollable.

That's where the Lege "uppers" come in. Using the registered receiver as a base, you can add usable buttstocks, different length barrels, better safeties, forward "K" grips, railed uppers, and kits to set the rate of fire down from 1,100+ to 600 (tweakable, I believe, to a variety of other rates depending on which parts you chose).

Of course, if you add all that stuff, the gun doesn't cost $3,000 anymore, but it might suit you just as well -- or better than a $7,000 Uzi.

Jim Watson
November 23, 2010, 10:40 PM
Firearms instructor at my agency had nothing good to say about AC556.
Except the brass saved $50 a gun versus M16s.
Sounds like yours are better.

TexasRifleman
November 23, 2010, 11:01 PM
Firearms instructor at my agency had nothing good to say about AC556.

Compared to an M16 he's probably right. For the almost 15 thousand dollar price difference I have been able to live with the shortcomings.

JTW Jr.
November 23, 2010, 11:49 PM
The rate of fire is so high, the gun is so light, and there is so little to hold onto, that even firing short bursts a mere ten to fifteen yards away, three quarters of a 30 round magazine didn't hit a man sized target.

Practice perhaps ?

At our local match , we have a couple guys that shoot MAC's , and trust me , they are controllable , if you know what you are doing and take the time to learn to control your trigger finger.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/VegasSMG/Subgun%20match%2009-12-10/Subgunmatchphotos9-12-10416.jpg

I have no probs with a mac pulling double and triple taps at will , singles are doable as well if you work at it. This is without a LAGE upper.

There are plenty of aftermarket parts for the MAC , they are cheap , you will replace parts but again they are pretty cheap still ( compared to others ).

I prefer the UZI over all of them , I find it more comfortable to shoot , and would take an UZI over an MP5 ( even if they were priced the same ).

CleverNickname
November 23, 2010, 11:53 PM
So, I find it strange that there are tons of NIB Mac's out there.... who were these made for and why are so many still NIB.... good site(sub guns)... thanks...

There's 20 or 30 thousand of them. They're the most common transferable, by far. IIRC the reason there's so many is that the idea was to sell them overseas to private buyers but the passage of ITAR in the late 70's made it illegal to export machine guns from the US for sale to non-approved buyers (i.e. anyone other than friendly foreign governments).

And if you want a machine gun under $10k, the best gun by far will be a full-auto AR15 conversion. They're on the higher end of the price range ($8k and up) but for the money they're the best option because:

1. You can effectively convert them to a different gun by swapping an upper. I've used my M16 with mag-fed 5.56mm, belt-fed 5.56mm, 9mm, 7.62x39 and mag-fed .22LR uppers and am probably going to get a belt-fed .22LR upper soon. No other transferrable machine gun is nearly as versatile. The closest would be an HK sear, but even then you can't get a .22LR host (that I know of, correct me if I'm wrong here.)

2. M16 parts are cheap. Compared to the aforementioned HK sear, changing calibers means you have to get a whole new host gun instead of a different upper, and the host guns are generally much more expensive too. Also, working on an HK generally requires a gunsmith, whereas doing something like rebarreling an M16 upper can easily be done by someone in their garage.

3. M16 parts are plentiful and have multiple manufacturers. For example, if you burn out a barrel on an AC556 you're stuck with whatever Ruger wants to sell you. If you burn out a barrel on an FNC you better hope you can find one of the few aftermarket Green Mountain barrels that became available in the last year, otherwise you're SOL. Break something else? Better buy a second FNC to use as a parts gun.

Billy Shears
November 24, 2010, 12:57 AM
Practice perhaps ?

At our local match , we have a couple guys that shoot MAC's , and trust me , they are controllable , if you know what you are doing and take the time to learn to control your trigger finger.
Practice wouldn't help much. Not with the one I shot. The one I see you shooting in that photo is a bit different from the one I was able to shoot. Yours has quite a bit more to hang onto. The one I fired had the tiny, sliding wire shoulder stock they come with, and no forward handgrip, not even that little canvas loop handgrip you see on some of them. The result was that you could only place the support hand over the shooting hand, the same as one does with a semi-auto pistol, keep the elbows down and pull the thing tight into the shoulder as well as that tiny, flimsy, wire stock allows... and watch the damn thing spray all around the target, and hit with maybe one bullet in four. And I was shooting very short bursts of no more than three to five rounds. I was an 11B, I know how to shoot full auto weapons.

I grant you, with the accessories I see on yours, I'd warrant the MAC is a good deal more controllable. But speaking for myself, if I'm going to plunk down the kind of dough it takes to get into the full auto game, I'll pick something like the STEN or Mk. 760 I mentioned earlier, that are already far more controllable than a MAC is, cost little, if any more, and on which you don't have to pay extra for aftermarket accessories to make them easier to shoot accurately.

JTW Jr.
November 24, 2010, 01:09 AM
That is a shooter at our local match , the one I shoot is stock except for a different stock.
That original "strap" for the front is less than ideal , but with practice it works , though an added on K type grip is much better.

In 380 the mac is a buzz gun , literally rains brass. Like a pez dispenser for ammo. :)

A nice option ( not sure what they run now ) is an MP40 ,or mp38 , prettier to look at than ol fugly ( sten ) and very controllable. Reising is a nice subgun option as well.

Billy Shears
November 24, 2010, 01:19 AM
MP40s are rather pricey. I think they usually go for over $10,000 when you can find one for sale. The STEN has the virtue of being cheap (for a full auto these days) and relatively controllable. If money were no object, I'd prefer a Thompson, just because I've always wanted one. Or if not a Tommy gun, a Suomi. I've had a chance to handle one, but not fire it. They had a reputation for being very controllable, and accurate to over a hundred yards, even on full auto. The secret is the weight (about 10lbs empty, or around 15lbs with a 76 round drum), which soaks up the recoil of the 9mm very well, and (so I've been told), not pulling the stock tight against the shoulder -- which will cause the muzzle to rise -- but resting it fairly lightly against the shoulder while placing the thumb of the shooting hand on the back of the receiver tube.

mopar92
November 24, 2010, 01:23 AM
Interesting.. I have a Colt 6920 ... Would I be able to convert it for under 10k? I can see having a longer gun and billions of aftermarkets for the ar's .. I figured an m16 reciever and bolt/sear would be 15k!

o Unforgiven o
November 24, 2010, 04:25 AM
Interesting.. I have a Colt 6920 ... Would I be able to convert it for under 10k? I can see having a longer gun and billions of aftermarkets for the ar's .. I figured an m16 reciever and bolt/sear would be 15k!

Lightning Links can be had for under 10K, but they are becoming very hard to get. Don't quote me on this but I am almost positive that DIAS's are up around the 12k mark.

LiquidTension
November 24, 2010, 12:51 PM
Also keep in mind that Lage makes a .22 conversion kit for both regular MACs and his own uppers.

ny32182
November 24, 2010, 01:36 PM
Just a note; my 6920 has a block in the lower that, as I understand it, is designed to preclude the use of DIAS. You can get an un-blocked lower like LMT or BCM. Or have your Colt milled out I guess.

GrimmLV
November 24, 2010, 02:25 PM
m11/9 with a lage upper.

www.max-11.com

bingo!

jmorris
November 24, 2010, 04:24 PM
It's virtually uncontrollable. The rate of fire is so high, the gun is so light, and there is so little to hold onto, that even firing short bursts a mere ten to fifteen yards away, three quarters of a 30 round magazine didn't hit a man sized target.

Your doing it wrong

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/can/m10/th_VID00032.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/can/m10/?action=view&current=VID00032.flv)

Nothing fancy and not a slow fire.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/can/m10/maccan.jpg

The gun I fired has a suppressor, but unless you have an asbestos glove, you can't hold onto that because it quickly heats up.

You have a suppressor that is not designed to be held. I built a knurled over tube for my F1 can and put header wrap between the two, problem solved.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/can/m10/airgap.jpg

The 556 is a good deal but costs a lot more to shoot than an SMG.

JTW Jr.
November 24, 2010, 07:44 PM
Here is a link with some of our local sub gun shooters , Jan 2010 match.
http://www.vegasshooters.com/forum/showthread.php?261-Results-of-Subgun-Match-01-10-10&daysprune=-1

There are some vids in there.

Billy Shears
November 25, 2010, 10:10 AM
You have a suppressor that is not designed to be held. I built a knurled over tube for my F1 can and put header wrap between the two, problem solved.
I have? Remember the part where this is someone else's gun I'm shooting? I'm afraid I've very little incentive to spend my money to modify someone else's gun so that I can shoot it better on the rare occasions when I may have the opportunity. And as I said, if I ever decide to spend the money to acquire a full auto weapon, I'll pick something that is simply more controllable to start with, rather than something I have to spend a good deal of extra money on in order to make it into something as controllable as other subguns already are.

One-Time
November 25, 2010, 01:15 PM
M-10/11s(AKA Mac10/11s), UZIs and maybe AC556s are all sub 10K, most Mac types are gonna be maybe 3k, uzis are somewhere near 5 or 6 IIRC and I think AC 556s are 7-10K

jmorris
November 25, 2010, 01:38 PM
Once you own one and can spend some time practicing with it you will find it controllable.

Even something as light and fast as a full auto glock is perfectly controllable with a stock on it.

There are plenty of not so stock M11's and a few M10's at machine gun shoots that do just fine. They also cost less, allowing more practice and that is what is going to make you a better FA shooter. A few mag dumps at your buddies farm won't cut it.

Billy Shears
November 25, 2010, 02:00 PM
A few mag dumps at your buddies farm won't cut it.
You obviously didn't read what I posted. So thanks for the advice, but I'll keep my own counsel about what sort of full auto gun to buy if I ever choose to do so, thanks all the same.

Zundfolge
November 25, 2010, 02:09 PM
Cheapest FA I've ever seen is a Reising ... here's one for $4500 (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/New_Images___Text_Layout_4.html) (I almost wonder if one could be dressed up to look like a tommy gun). Same guy has a Walther MPK (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Walther_MPK_full_auto.html) for $5k that looks real cool.

Another option is to find a range nearby that rents out sub guns ... go burn through a couple thousand rounds and maybe that will sate your desire for a FA once and for all (after taking a turn behind a Mac 10 I realized that as neeto as FA is there's just no way I'd ever be interested in paying to feed one even if I was rich).

straitnate14
November 25, 2010, 03:51 PM
not to hijack but is there anyway to get that walther mpl as a semi auto? http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Walther_MPK_full_auto.html

Ian
November 25, 2010, 03:56 PM
Just a though; you can get a semiauto Browning 1919 with tripod and high-quality hand crank for something like $2000. That's a pretty fair substitute for real full-auto for a whole lot less money (and no NFA transfer required). You can set up a 1919 without too much trouble for .308, .30-06, 8mm Mauser, and 7.62x54R (plus other calibers if you get really serious), so you can shoot whatever is least expensive at the moment. And it looks a lot cooler than a Mac sitting in the living room. :)

Billy Shears
November 25, 2010, 04:07 PM
not to hijack but is there anyway to get that walther mpl as a semi auto? http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Walth...full_auto.html
That one? No. Not unless you become a class III dealer. It's a dealer sample; so you have to be a dealer. But that model of gun was made from 1963 to 1985. No full auto weapon made after 1986 is fully transferable to civilians, and no imported ones made after 1968. So the only way short of becoming a dealer to own a full auto Walther MPL is to find one for sale that was imported into the states and legally registered for the short time they were importable for sale to civilians between 1963 and 1968.

jmorris
November 26, 2010, 02:35 PM
Just a though; you can get a semiauto Browning 1919 with tripod and high-quality hand crank for something like $2000. That's a pretty fair substitute for real full-auto for a whole lot less money

It's an OK way to turn money into noise but they are cheap at the buy to run them costs a lot more than an SMG. In just a few thousand rounds a M10 or M11 would be less expensive. This short video would cost you $30 or so using factory .308 ammo.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_jM1919.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=jM1919.mp4)

And it looks a lot cooler than a Mac sitting in the living room

Or than an old shotgun over the fireplace.


As for control I found some videos of newbies doing a few mag dumps down at my farm last year. M10 45acp stock PS with a 14 year old first timer.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/th_twm1045.jpg (http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/?action=view&current=twm1045.mp4)

Here is one of the MP5. Again first time shooters.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/th_mp52.jpg (http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/?action=view&current=mp52.mp4)

A little bit too small for an M16 but keeps them in the pond on 3rd burst.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/th_cman16.jpg (http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/?action=view&current=cman16.mp4)


As for weight here is one very light glock machinegun.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/th_glock18.jpg (http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/7409/?action=view&current=glock18.mp4)

jmorris
November 26, 2010, 02:40 PM
If you note the stance and what the gun does upon firing you can tell who is used to shooting FA.

Ian
November 26, 2010, 03:23 PM
That's the point of having multiple calibers set up for a belt-fed. You can get 7.62x54R for 20c/rd right now, and 8mm for 26 cents. That's not much more than the 18 cents I can see for cheap 9mm. People who stocked up a couple years ago got rifle-caliber ammo for less than half of current prices.

JTW Jr.
November 27, 2010, 01:14 AM
Just a though; you can get a semiauto Browning 1919 with tripod and high-quality hand crank for something like $2000. That's a pretty fair substitute for real full-auto

Not a substitute for Full Auto in any way . I hear people try to claim that all the time ,the reality is it is either Full auto or it isn't.

Just like those that claim airsoft or paintball is the same as real gun fire , nope , again , not even close.

Ian
November 27, 2010, 10:03 AM
At $2k versus $20k, I think it's a pretty darn good substitute. I don't suppose you would like to give some reason(s) it's not?

JTW Jr.
November 27, 2010, 11:30 AM
Simple , if it's full auto , it's full auto , anything else is not. You will not get the same feeling from bump firing , etc. Not that there is anything wrong with other ways , it is just not the same . Too each his own , in the end we each spend our $$$ where we want.

I can tell you a semi auto Tommy is no where near as fun as a full auto , and a semi auto Uzi is not as fun as a full auto ( Vector ). Hopefully this Sunday , if all goes well , I can report back how enjoyable an MG08-15 is :)

sfc_mark
December 4, 2010, 01:31 PM
So, I find it strange that there are tons of NIB Mac's out there.... who were these made for and why are so many still NIB....

When the FOPA was passed with the Hughes Amendment, the manufacturer went into around the clock production until the effective date. I read in some firearms publication back in '86-'87 or so that more FA weapons were manufactured for civilian ownership in those six months than in the 52 years from passage of NFA until FOPA.

Sam1911
December 4, 2010, 10:20 PM
no, by far the cheapest way is to get a $1000 Title II manufacturer's license. See my post on .22 mg's.

And if you were already planning to spend your life "in the business" of dealing and manufacturing firearms, that's a fine idea.

An FFL and SOT are not for the purposes of enhancing your own collection.

As member Bubbles recently said:

The application fee for a Type 07 FFL (firearm manufacturer) is $150. The license is valid for three years.
The SOT is $500.00 per year if your total gross receipts are less than $500,000.00 per year, otherwise the tax is $1000.00 per year.
ITAR registration is $2250.00 per year.
Throw in liability insurance, machines and tooling, raw materials, office equipment, computers and software, and other normal costs of doing business (utilities, rent, legal fees, etc) and it gets spendy real fast.

mopar92
December 12, 2010, 10:58 PM
Sounds like a MAC or UZI is the new toy of choice....

cottonmouth
December 12, 2010, 11:35 PM
All I did was ask the Chief Investigator at my department and he handed me a "new" M-16A1. I did have to sign for it!

J.B.

41
December 12, 2010, 11:44 PM
Not to hijack or anything, but if you buy a ar-15 and have it converted to be full auto, would the pre-1986 rule still apply?
That's probably a stupid question, but I don't know very much about full autos.

Trebor
December 12, 2010, 11:55 PM
Not to hijack or anything, but if you buy a ar-15 and have it converted to be full auto, would the pre-1986 rule still apply?

You can't legally convert an AR-15 to full-auto now. That's what the whole "must be manufactured before May 19 1986" law is all about.

The only people who can manufacturer new MG's are FFL MG manufacturers who make them for the military, law enforcement agencies, and as "dealer samples" to demonstrate to military and law enforcement agencies.

(And not, you can't buy a "dealer sample" unless you are a MG dealer and need one to demo to an agency)

JTW Jr.
December 13, 2010, 10:44 PM
You could however buy a registered auto sear :)


But not cheap....

however this is a nice price...
http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=18090&query=retrieval

KosmicKrunch
December 13, 2010, 11:42 PM
Right now, MAC's are the lowest cost way to go. Tons of em out there, even the Powder Springs orig ones are always up on the auction sites and listed in shot gun news or gun list or what ever it is called now.

dprice3844444
March 5, 2011, 11:46 AM
sten gun is cheap,tons of spare parts around,mags are cheap(orig and new mfg)packs into a small package,and unlike a mac,you can shoot it at 100 yd targets.at 550 rpm,won't eat ammo as fast.try swedish k also.smith 76

AlexanderA
March 5, 2011, 11:17 PM
I had a suppressed MAC 11 back when I had my Class III license. I wasn't at all unhappy to see it sold. Hard to handle, and the suppressor wasn't all that effective.

ayedauk
March 9, 2011, 04:04 AM
Funny to see this post restarted. There are a lot of differing opinions regarding "affordable" FA guns.
I have both a Mac 11 9mm and an AC556
They are totally different animals. Neither of which is controllable on full auto. No matter how much you practice. If you are looking for accuracy buy a sniper rifle in 308.
If you are looking for killing power buy the new Keltech dual mag shotgun.
However if you are looking for fun buy any Submachine gun (pistol round ie. 9mm or 45 auto) or Machine gun (rifle cartridge ie .223) and you will never...never..walk away from a full auto burst without a huge smile on your face..guaranteed.

I think any FA are worth the money. And they are not getting cheaper.
Just my HO

AlexanderA
March 9, 2011, 07:22 PM
I think any FA are worth the money. And they are not getting cheaper.

Actually they are getting cheaper.

http://machinegunpriceguide.com/

ScottieG59
March 10, 2011, 08:05 PM
Cheap and full auto do not go together. Just consider the cost of ammunition. You know you will never use full auto to defend your home. The only time I had a practical use for full auto was when I manned a machine gun. I do not see a civilian equivalent.

If you really like these weapons, a little time in the military might help.

Girodin
March 11, 2011, 03:21 AM
They are totally different animals. Neither of which is controllable on full auto. No matter how much you practice.

I haven't shot one, but the word is the Lage slow fire upper makes a world of difference on a Mac. After coming across the Lage and doing some research I've been pretty seriously considering a Mac ever since.

Sam1911
March 11, 2011, 08:46 AM
...but the word is the Lage slow fire upper makes a world of difference on a Mac.

Yup. That's what I'm seeing too. The MACs are almost as modular as an AR-15. You can add barrel length, a bit of weight, a good stock, optics, a comfortable foreward grip, and then set the cyclic rate to whatever you like. They are "uncontrollable" only because of small size, bad ergonomics, and sky high rate of fire. Change all that and you've got a very usable gun!

oneounceload
March 11, 2011, 06:21 PM
Cheapest way to get into Full Auto

Have friends with full auto guns and you buy the ammo......... ;)

CSA 357
March 11, 2011, 10:59 PM
cotton do they buy your ammo?

Ian
March 12, 2011, 12:00 AM
It's really a bummer that F-troop nixed the idea of using a registered MAC-10 lower with a beltfed upper. That would have really been a great full-auto option.

LiquidTension
March 12, 2011, 10:57 AM
The Lage uppers are fantastic. I had one for a few years but had to sell it when my car died. There are people that compete in subgun matches with stock M10s and M11s. They are controllable, it just takes quite a bit of practice. I only fired mine in stock form for fun - 4 rounds is the least I was able to get off in a burst IIRC. It's also fun to put an oversize buffer in them and really get that rate of fire up there :)

cottonmouth
April 1, 2011, 11:08 PM
"cotton do they buy your ammo?"


Not enough of it!

J.B.

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