The 9mm and 10mm


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Stinkyshoe
December 21, 2003, 08:39 PM
In the next few years I would like to buy a autoloading handgun. It will be for general plinking and target practice. Maybe CCW. I am impressed with what I hear about glocks. I would either like a 9mm or 10mm. Thanks to Sean Smith, a member here at THR, I wish able to see some balistic data comparing 9mm,45acp,10mm,40sw(thanks Sean!) I have never shot a 9mm or 10mm so maybe this a stupid question to be asking. I should probably go to a range and see if I could shot someones 9mm and 10mm. I would really like a Glock because I hear good stuff about them. For as many people as I hear say the 9mm is a very adaquate defense round, I hear two people who say it is not. Please give me your input...Thanks:D
Ss
P.s. If you could rate them 1 to 4, how would you rank the 9mm,40sw,45acp, and 10mm?

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jem375
December 21, 2003, 08:46 PM
forget the 10MM for general plinking, and in your case just get a 9MM, the ammo is cheap............

Dave Markowitz
December 21, 2003, 08:48 PM
All four rounds you mention are very good. However since you stated this will be for target shooting and informal plinking, I suggest a pistol in 9mm. The 9mm has less recoil than the other calibers and the ammo is much cheaper. E.g., you can get Winchester white box 100-count Value Packs of 9mm at Wal-Mart for about $11.

The 9mm is perfectly adequate for defense, as well. Just use good jacketed hollowpoint ammunition from a major supplier (CCI, Federal, Winchester, Remington, etc.) and you'll have a good defensive weapon. And the aforementioned low ammo cost will help you shoot a lot, so you become proficient with it.

I suggest that you handle several different pistols before buying; shoot them at a range that rents them if possible. This will help you avoid buying something you dislike. E.g., while the Glock is a fine pistol, it does not fit my hand well. In contrast, my Browning High Power fits me like it was designed just for me. You could be the opposite.

Other good pistols to check out would be those by Ruger, CZ, SIG, HK, and Beretta, among others.

clubsoda22
December 21, 2003, 08:49 PM
as far as power goes: 10mm, 45, 40, 9mm

As far as sales go: 9mm, 40, 45 (very close to 40), 10mm (way down the list)

As far as my personal preference, i own: 9mm, 40, 45.

If you wanted to hunt both wild and urban game: 10mm

If you don't think you'll ever need to take down a bear with your handgun: 9mm, 40, 45.

If you like the glocks, i'd recommend a Glock 19 in 9mm. 9mm is a perfectly adequate manstopper with the proper hollowpoint ammunition. I use Winchester Ranger Talon. Speer Gold Dot is also a very good round and easier to find.

Lone_Gunman
December 21, 2003, 08:52 PM
Take with a grain of salt the opinion of anyone that is especially dogmatic about the practical superiority of one of these rounds over another.


From time to time I carry a 45, 10mm, or 9mm just depending on what kind of mood I am in. I feel equally well armed with all three. Lately, I have favored the 9mm in a Glock 19. Main reason is because i seem to be able to get back on target quicker for follow up shots. The G19 is also an amazingly size efficient gun for the amount of firepower it provides.

Ala Dan
December 21, 2003, 08:59 PM
Greeting's stinkyshoe-

My advice to you would be for you to go to a range that
offers "rental gun's" for use by vistor's. Try out as many
different makes (and or models) as time and money allow.
You need not worry about testing the low-end guns, as
far as defensive purposes are concerned. These would
be the Bryco-Jenning's class, High-Point's, and etc. More
than likely a good starting point would be with the Ruger
and CZ class of firearms; then start working your way up.
In semi-auto's, the bottom line would begin with the 9m/m,
followed by the .357 SIG, then the .40S&W, and the 10m/m.
Save the time-tested .45 ACP for the last thing on the list,
as its milder on the shooter, than the last three listed.

Besides the Ruger and CZ line, try Glock's, Browning's,
Beretta's, H&K's, and SIG's; along with the 1911 variant's.
Most folk's consider Taurus self-loaders a "toss up";
with part of the crowd singing its praises, and the other
side condeming it to the devil. I'm a member of the 2nd
crowd; as I depise their works, their firearm's, and their
history.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Majic
December 21, 2003, 09:03 PM
The 10mm is a great cartridge, but powerfull. Don't let that 1mm fool you as they are really night and day in comparasion. The 10mm is on par with the revolver's .41mag in power. It also takes a large framed pistol because of the potential power.
For economy the 9mm is just fine, and does a fine job defensively. The 10mm will cost more to feed, and you have to learn to deal with the recoil unless you shoot reduced loads.
I recomend starting off with a 9mm then later get you a 10mm for grins and giggles.
The .40SW was developed as a replacement for reduce power 10mm loads. They share the same bullets and the .40SW case is basically a cut down 10mm. A consideration if you want to split the difference between the 9mm and the 10mm. It is not as economical as a 9mm, but packs more power while at the same time is cheaper to feed than a 10mm with a much lower power level.

mrapathy2000
December 21, 2003, 09:20 PM
I like 40S&W myself. it uses 10mm bullets though they dont fly as fast and dont get to the higher grain rounds in 40S&w.

if your in bear country 10mm would be better. 357sig would be better than 9mm, 357sig uses 9mm bullets though is a bit faster.

9mm is nice in compacts like glock26,kel-tec p11,kahr has some nice compact 9's also.

9mm is the cheapest to shoot 45acp and 40S&W bit more expensive. 10mm in my area is hard to find. best reload if you go with 10mm.

Peter M. Eick
December 21, 2003, 09:22 PM
The key to the 10mm is its wide power range if you reload for it. The 10mm can be pushed to full power loads which are way beyond the 45 or 45+p. You can also back it down to 9mm power levels if you wish.

As a 10mm shooter, if I were to do it all over again, I would not have bought any 40's. My only reason for wanting a 9mm is because the sig 210 series comes in it. Otherwise the 9mm just is not the power level I want on a day to day basis.

Yes 9mm ammo is cheap, but if you reload like I do, the difference is very small.

FireInTheHole
December 21, 2003, 09:28 PM
I think your choices should be 9mm, .40S&W, or a good .45 (depending on hand size)

The 10mm is more of an advanced pistol as it is very costly to shoot(unless you reload) and has alot of recoil.

With smallish hands a 9mm and .40 are all I can comfortably shoot. I really like both rounds.

9mm can be had for near $.09/shot

.40 for $.13/shot

Advice: try out ever pistol you can before you lay down cash.

10-Ring
December 21, 2003, 09:52 PM
All the cartridges you've mentioned are very good & will serve its user well. In your case tho, I'd recommend a 9mm simply because feeding it is the least expensive of the bunch...in contrast, feeding a 10mm is very expensive.

capt_happypants
December 21, 2003, 10:12 PM
The problem with the 10mm cartridge is that there are only two platforms available to shoot it - Glock and 1911-type semiautos.

Glock offers the full-size Model 20 and the compact Model 29, and Dan Wesson and Kimber both offer 10mm versions of the venerable 1911A1. Other than that, you can't choose between a Ruger, Sig, HK or Beretta.

As for the limited stopping power of 9mm, it's overstated, IMO. Most of the newer defensive loads (Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P and Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+) have good penetration and expansion.

Majic
December 21, 2003, 10:15 PM
Eaa has the Witness in 10mm.

E=MC^2
December 21, 2003, 11:10 PM
I had a little extra Christmas cash laying around and picked up a Glock 19(9mm) on Friday after finding 5 pre-ban magazines in one of my junk drawers. Right from the start it flawlesly digested 500 rounds without a single malfuntion. I shot much more accurately than I did when I was issued the G19's back in '97, but I've became a much better shooter since then.

Right now this new G19 is riding in a holster on my side where a Colt 1911 was prior. Not that a large number of rounds would be required for most defensive shooting situations but at full capacity it's holding 16 nasty, little hollow-point rounds.

In terms of size, cost, capacity, accuracy, and reliability I think the Glocks are one of the most efficient designs out there. I could of had a standard G19 for $490 but spent an extra $40 for the night-sight version. Sportmans Wharehouse was having a sale on these.

As many have suggested the 9mm will probably be more suitable for target/plinking needs. Of course, Ted Nugent would tell you the 10mm is best for everything. He really promotes the Glock 10mm on his shows and his book. This is probably what I'll purchase next.

FWIW-My 3 1911's are also very accurate and reliable. They are also much heavier while holding half as many rounds.

garrettwc
December 21, 2003, 11:34 PM
There are also a lot of good deals around on the 10MM S&W pistols used.

I will jump on the 9mm bandwagon as well because it is the most suited for your situation.

I love the 10mm, but as mentioned a millimeter in diameter and some more in length make a big difference. I had the opportunity this summer to shoot a Glock 19 (9mm) and a Glock 20 (10mm) side by side. I remember thinking how huge the 10mm cartridge seemed next to the 9.

Bren
December 22, 2003, 12:09 AM
I love 10mms but would suggest a 9mm in a Glock format. Bren

Stinkyshoe
December 22, 2003, 02:29 AM
Thank you all for the replies. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions. I got used to seeing the 45 acp round because a buddy has a 45. Then when I saw a 9mm round one day, I thought for sure it was a 380. This doesn't really mean anything I guess, but the 9mm seems so small(but I don't want to get shot with it).

In Teds book he talks about the accident he had with a 1911 and how it puffed his handerchef into shreds. I think that I would be some what nervous about carrying cocked and locked(remind myself of the 4 rules applying here). I like the visual benefit of a external hammer, so maybe the Ruger or Walther 9mm would be worth a look. I really am interested in getting only one and then shooting it a lot. How do Rugers and Walthers and Glocks compare in wearing after 1000rds? 10000rds?


The 10mm sounds like it packs a wallop. If it truly has 41mag type ballistics, that would be quite the gun for boar and deer. Could anyone rate it in terms of recoil? Is it as bad as a blow back(like a mak 380 for example). It seems nice to have the ammo capacity of 15 rounds if you can find a high cap, but to me it might be hard to shoot in a controlled and rapid manner if it launches my arm in the air. If I couldn't control it then 5 rounds cap or 15 rounds cap would make little difference.

How hard is reloading 10mm compared to 308win. Is there any difference?
What about the accuracy of Glocks? Has anyone locked one in a ransom rest? What about off hand using the given sight radius? I know this might sound crazy but I would be maybe dissatified if it couldn't group better than an 1.5" at 25 yards. Will Glocks do this? Will Walthers? Will Rugers? That is the part of me that "romanticizes" having a gun better than me. I realize a gun could probably pattern 5" at 25 yards and still be good for sd, but like I said I am at this point not familiar enough with handguns or confident enough to entertain ccw permit(it scares me kinda,would I have the permit because I am a chicken,because I feel inadaquate, would I be able to make the right choice,what if some disarmed me and hurt someone else?????), but I really value being able to be as accurate as possible(like everybody at the THR!!)
Sorry to ramble, thanks for all the help! Please keep your comments coming!
Ss

Stinkyshoe
December 22, 2003, 02:40 AM
Oh I forgot to ask...I did once get to pick up a 1911 and my hand hung off the bottom 3/4". Is this common? Is this how glocks are too?
Thanks
Ss

Bren
December 22, 2003, 04:06 AM
That 1911 must have been a compact (shorter grip). 1911's are my favorite guns and in 10mm my favorite platform. It seems Glocks have more AD's than 1911's but safety is between the ears, not the gun.

The 1911 will be more accurate than a Glock .

The 9mm may look small but is very efficient and has more power than the much longer 38. It is also cheap to shoot!

To me, 10mm's don't have much recoil unless they are loaded real hot (the way they should be) Factory ammo in 10mm isn't much to right home about, even Cor-bon is mild to shoot in a full size gun. No 10mm's aren't just for hunting.

I strongly suggest you get a 9mm and get some range time in before playing around with 1911's and 10mm's.

Yes, Rugers and Wathers worth looking into and so is a CZ-75, infact think about $350 and get a quality 9mm that feels good to you. Try a Ruger and CZ. Bren

caz223
December 22, 2003, 05:00 AM
Everybody needs at least one 9mm wonderpistole.
Cheap to shoot, hi capacity, easy to learn, cheap ammo, etc.
Wish I had started with a 9mm, would have been a better shot sooner.
I own a G20, a razorback, and a smith 610, and would recommend the 10mm caliber in general, and the G20 specifically.
Whenever I'm having a bad day, I enjoy making the steel plate dance at the local range....
The 10mm knocks those steel plates DOWN.

9x19
December 22, 2003, 07:22 AM
I like the 9mm best, in both Glocks and 1911s... :D

Here's a pretty good article on the 9mm:

www.sportshooter.com/gear/tlg_9mmadvocacy.htm

I have pistols in the following chamberings, and rank them as listed:

1) 9x19mm
2) .38 Super
3) .45 ACP
4) 10mm Auto
5) .40 S&W

Sean Smith
December 22, 2003, 07:56 AM
For your stated purposes, 9mm would probably be the best choice.

FYI, here are the comparative ballistics data you were looking for:

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/10tech.html#ballistics

Only thing I'd point out is that the cost of 10mm practice ammo is overstated; you can find it for the same or lower prices than .45 ACP if you shop around. I recently got Federal AE for $10/50 delivered, and Georgia Arms always has 10mm ammo for low prices.

http://www.georgia-arms.com/pistol.htm#ee

Of course, reloading can bring down your cost-per-round, just like with any other cartridge. But just because the morons at the corner store charge $15+/50 for 10mm doesn't mean you have to get hosed... unless you are scared of that modern innovation known as mail. ;)

W Turner
December 22, 2003, 10:28 AM
Like many people here have already stated, I think that 9mm is probably your best bet. It is cheap to shoot, and is effective in the right loadings.

Don't let the "enormous" recoil of the 10mm scare you off though. The recoil is not any worse than that of a .45acp, it's just different. The .45 is more of a slow push back into your hand, whereas the 10mm is more of a quick pop.
The best way I know to compare the recoil of the two is to imagine the .45 as someone putting thier hand against the muzzle of your pistol and shoving backward; the 10mm is more like someone using the same amount of force and popping the end of the muzzle from about 3" away.
Ammo cost is no contest, 100 rds. for ~$11 at Wal-Mart trumps $10 per fifty from Georgia Arms anyday, but the cost for 10mm is not prohibitive.


Mino

Mike Irwin
December 22, 2003, 10:35 AM
Happy Pants,

EAA has the Witness, and Smith & Wesson has recently chambered 10mm revolvers.

Majic
December 22, 2003, 12:14 PM
Recoil will be heavier than any blow back .380acp pistol, but the 10mm will be a bigger and heavier handgun which will soak up alot of it.
Handloading is pretty easy as with any other straight wall case. Plenty of data is around for mild reduced loads for plinking up to the full house power packing loads that makes it truly shine.
Accuracy is very good, better than alot of cartridges I think, but your goals depends on you. Since you seem like a new handgun shooter they may be a little optimistic on your part. Shooting handguns are decidedly different than shooting rifles.
The 10mm is not a cartridge to learn handgun shooting with. It is better to learn on a weaker cartridge then move up to it after you have developed and mastered the basics. That is where the 9mm shines oer the 10mm. If you really haven't shot handguns except to fire a few shots from one evey now and then I suggest you start from the beginning with a good .22lr. to master the mechanics.

Everybody needs at least one 9mm wonderpistole.
Well someone can have the one allocated for me as I personally have no need or want of one. :barf:

pwrtool45
December 22, 2003, 01:08 PM
Pet peeve alert:

The only .41 magnums the 10mm compares to are the downloaded rounds like the Silvertip. Using bullets of similar sectional density and similar barrel lengths, the 10mm best compares to a full-bore .357 magnum, with slightly more energy and slightly reduced penetration. (http://recipes.alliantpowder.com as a starting reference). Depending on your use (defense v/s hunting) this can be advantageous (or not).

//end pet peeve alert

Sorry about that.

Now, I enjoyed my Colt Delta 10mm and found recoil to be more tolerable than my .45 Kimber Custom Royal. Not necessarily "softer," per se, but different and to my mind more pleasant. That pistol is on the short list of those I regret getting rid of.

For a plinker, I'd stick with 9mm. In fact, I have. The only centerfire autopistol I own these days is a newly acquired Sig 229 in 9mm.

artherd
December 22, 2003, 06:32 PM
I've recently gotten into pistols, and found a pleasant surprise in the 9mm and pistol recoil in general. It's far more tolerable than I thought it would be!

My first pistol will almost certinly be in 9mm, because it's *ehough* recoil to actually teach me how to shoot (for that reason I do not really want a .22LR to start) and still *very* cheap to shoot. Not sure between SIG and Glock at the moment (not even sure of G17 or G19).

I then plan to get a Glock 20 and play with the ability to shoot everything else, from 10mm, to .357SIG, to .40S&W, with a barrel change.

Don't let anyone scare you from 10mm in price or scarcity. It's fairly available over-the-counter, and via Mail Order, only about 2x the cost of the very dirt-cheapest 9mm, and on par with say .40S&W or .45.

One of these years I may get a .45, but that thing's nearly sub-sonic! :P

Oh, 10mm has nearly TWICE the muzzle energy of a 9mm. ~340lb-ft for 9mm, and well over 650lb-ft for 10mm. This bests even the best .45 loads.

Best!
Ben.

Majic
December 22, 2003, 07:41 PM
My first pistol will almost certinly be in 9mm, because it's *ehough* recoil to actually teach me how to shoot (for that reason I do not really want a .22LR to start)

Recoil comes after the shot is made. It has absolutely nothing to do with the mechanics of making the shot. After you have learned the grip, sight picture, breath control, muscle memory, and trigger manipulation then you have learned to shoot. Recoil only affects the amount of time needed to begin the next sequence of firing a shot.

50 Freak
December 22, 2003, 07:49 PM
Hey Stinky,

Take it from a big Glock fan. Skip the 9mm Glocks. Get a 40 SW Glock platform. ie G27, 22, 23. Then spend an extra $100 bucks and get a 9mm barrel. It will drop right in and then you will have two pistols in one gun.

Then spend another $100 later on and get the 357 sig barrel. Then you'll have 3 pistols in one gun. 9 mm, 40 sw, and 357 sig.

Practice with the nine (as it's dirt cheap) and use the 40 or 357 as defense rounds.

Mags will interchange with no problems.

You can do that with a 40 or 357 sig frame. But you cannot put a 40 or 357 sig barrel in a 9mm frame. Not enough pins/strength.

Trust me. You'll thank me in the future.

50

agtman
December 22, 2003, 08:58 PM
Well, here's my suggestion:

The choice of a 9mm pistol as a "starter" gun isn't all bad for many reasons already mentioned.

There are a ton of guns made in 9mm, and one of these will surely "fit" your hand. If it's one that's comfortable to shoot, you'll get out and do just that. 9mm ammo's way cheap, and that's a boon for doing lots of shooting.

As you can figure out, more practice allows you to hone the basics of good shooting technique, to develop muscle-memory (important, along w/ technique, in handling recoil), and to improve hand-eye coordination.

Once you feel you're ready to move up to a larger caliber pistol (and that'll happen quicker than you might think), personally I'd skip the .40S&W and look at either the .45acp or 10mm AUTO.

Both are good for targets or terrorists, while the 10mm's power curve makes it additionally effective for handgun hunting (if you're into that) or protection against 2- or 4-legged critters if you're backpacking or camping. (My pet peeve: People who claim the 10mm is "only good for hunting" are usually the same people who've never shot one).

In other words, while the .45's fine, the 10mm's simply more versatile.

As Sean noted, you can find affordable 10mm ammo at places like Georgia Arms. Also, a wide variety of "factory" loads are available that cover the entire range of the 10mm's power curve, from mildish .40-level stuff to loads that safely exceed the original Norma specs. If you reload, there's a huge number of 10mm/.40cal bullet-weights to work with, running from 135grs to 220grs.

But starting your marksmanship training with a 9mm autoloader is a good way to begin. Have fun. :)

:cool:

Bobarino
December 22, 2003, 10:01 PM
since nobody has stood up for my favorite round, the .40S&W, i will. Glock is an excellent choice for a first gun. they don't get much simpler or more reliable. (except H&K :-) ) the .40 gives a bit of an advantage in energy, but in the case of Glock, gives up a few rounds in the capacity department. ammo that is nearly as cheap and many of them will convert to .357Sig with just a barrel change. but when forst starting in handguns, practice is the key and the cheaper it is, the more you can do, so i wouldhave to agree with everyone else and say a 9mm, is the way to go. the G19 is cheap to buy, cheap to feed, cheap accesories, widely available parts, reliable as a hammer, and will last well beyond 10,000 rounds.

your accuracy expectations are a little high. 3 inches at 25 yards is considered to be "combat accurate". for 1.5 inches, you'll have to move up to something like a Sig P210 or and H&K SOCOM, or some exotic race gun. heck i'm still happy if i can shoot 3 inches at 25 feet!

Bobby

Frohickey
December 22, 2003, 10:07 PM
How about buying all four?

And you call yourself a THR member. :D

Grayrider
December 23, 2003, 09:14 AM
Nice to see my fellow 10mm fans all here. We really should get together more often!

:D

I must differ in opinion from a few of the gentlemen above on the suggestion of starting with a light recoiling round then working your way up. Sort of like saying why don't you learn to bust broncos by starting off riding cats.

I know many people do learn with a 9mm and work up without major difficulty. I started out that way, but noticed a problem with this plan. I came to see the 9mm as a "normal" level of recoil, and compared everything else to it. Thus a .22 seemed light, a .38 Super a little warm, and stuff in the .40+ range hot. I never could seem to handle a .45 or 10mm, much to my frustration.

So one day (determined to master the 1911 and get a grip on shooting .45) I just quit shooting 9mm. I put my wondernines in the safe and vowed to shoot only .45 and only a 1911 until I shot as well as I knew I could, and had seen others shoot. An amazing thing happened. The recoil went away. I stopped flinching, got used to the recoil, and .45 seemed "normal". Soon I was faster and more accurate with a .45 1911 than my friends with their 9mm pistols. I must credit some of that to (IMHO) the handling characteristics of the 1911. I was getting dual benefits by mastering the round and the platform I chose.

More recently I went back to 10mm. Suddenly it didn't seem much warmer than a .45. When it first came out I thought it was a monster, but back then it was in comparison to my "normal" choice of a 9mm. What happens now when I shoot 9mm? Feels like a featherweight.

So while I agree you should try different guns out for feel, I must say if you want to go warmer than 9mm from the beginning that would be skipping some steps in the process you may be better off skipping. I must also say that if the 1911 package interests you, by all means go ahead with that. Had I to do it all over again I would have stuck with that from the beginning.

GR

PS. I am also endorsing the .45 as your starter caliber. It is commonly available at good prices, no harder to shoot than the .40, and sits in some of the finest handgun designs available today. If you want 10mm later, you will end up with guns like 1911s, Glock, and Smith large frame autoloaders. The shape and configuration of these guns in .45 will be identical. In 9/40 some are smaller. Get used to what you will handle in 10mm, then when you get one later it will seem much the same.

Frohickey
December 23, 2003, 02:04 PM
If I would do it all over again, I would forget about the 40Short&Weak.

Start out with the 45ACP, and if you have the desire to go for the high capacity pistols, get yourself the 9mm. The 10mm is a good not-quite-exotic cartridge, and it has a strong following because of the cartridge's characteristics, being good SD, and enough power to hunt thin-skinned game with.

Of course, if you want to only stick with 0.452 diameter bullets, you could pick up the 45ACP standard load for your automatics for normal self-defense work. Load down the 45ACP to plinking loads for high volume plinking. Put in a stronger spring on your automatic for 45Super loads (approaching 10mm levels). Get a new slide and barrel/compensator for 460Rowland for hunting thin-skinned game (more power than 10mm levels). Get a modern revolver for 45Colt and hot potent loads for hunting thin-skinned game (more power than 10mm). Get a modern revolver for 454Casull and hot loads for hunting killer wabbits. :D

Majic
December 23, 2003, 06:45 PM
Grayrider, while you are advocating the idea of starting off with powerfull cartridges, you actually did as others have suggested. You Started with a 9mm and found you couldn't control the 10mm right off. So you moved up one power level to the .45acp to learn to master that. After the .45acp was mastered then you went to the 10mm with minimum trouble.
How can you advise others to do something that you yourself admit you couldn't do?

Grayrider
December 23, 2003, 07:56 PM
Majic,

;)

I had wondered how long it would take for someone point out that seeming contradiction. I skipped some detail to avoid lengthening an already lengthy response. At the time I got into pistols, I spent very little total time with the 9mm before dropping it and focusing on the 45. I was working in law enforcement and did not trust the 9mm, so I moved fast to dump it for something else. While I did shoot 9mm enough to consider the recoil "normal", I cannot advocate that period spent as having won me any advantage. You see I also made some very bad choices for handgun models that served me poorly and I shot poorly. The result was I learned next to nothing about shooting--certainly not enough to claim I learned on a light caliber then worked up. Did I adapt to recoil? Perhaps. But had I started with a gun/caliber that fit me better in hindsight I think I would have progressed much more quickly. I think another lesson here is the point of finding a gun that fits you well and sticking with it. I didn't. That cost me a lot of time and ammo I should have spent on the 1911.

So my advice to the original poster is basically take some time deciding, get the gun and a caliber he wants from the git-go, then shoot, shoot, shoot....

GR

artherd
December 24, 2003, 07:02 AM
First handgun I ever shot was a G23 in .40S&W.

*Loved it*. Didn't just like it, I LOVED it! Recoil totally not what I expected, very controlable. Damn near bought one that week.

Next gun was a SIG 239 in 9mm, loved that too. Recoil is lighter, feels practically like a .22 (ok, no it dosen't, but it's headed there) found I could place folloow-up shots a little quicker...

Now it's getting intresting...


Do I get a high-cap 9? (G17, G19?) or a .40 I liked so much? Or possibly a 10mm G20 or .45 (need to shoot some of these in different sizes/weights, but G20 and 1911 or USP in 10mm and .45ACP/Super respectively.)


The one thing I would recomend is getting a gun that fits your hand well. It's hard to explain, but hold enough, and you will know what it feels like.


Note, I can hardly tell the difference between .40S&W, and the 9mm. There is one, but mild.
I put near 100 rounds through both, and over 100 through my (ok, compensated and 10 lbs with scope, but still!) .30-06, and didn't want to leave the range when the sun set. So maybe I like (or at least tolerate) recoil?

N3rday
December 24, 2003, 10:23 AM
9mm for plinking, definitely. Cheap, and a satisfactory manstopper.

.40 and .45 have about the same stopping power, but cost significantly more than 9mm. better for self-defense than a 9mm, but that won't matter too much...shot placement is more important than caliber.

10mm has the best stopping power out of the four. If I was to fight a bear with a handgun, it would be a 10mm. Its expensive though, so unless you are rich, go with something else.

aww...no .357 sig?:neener:

HBK
December 24, 2003, 02:07 PM
I would recommend either a Walther P-99 or a Glock 19. I am partial to the Walther, but the Glock is a great gun. You can find high caps for either gun, the Walther holds 16 and the Glock 15. The 10mm....that is a sweet round, but alas, gun makers have not provided us with many chouices there. The Glock 29, IMO, is the best 10mm currently manufactured. I love the 10mm round, but for your purposes, the 9mm is the way to go. That is, if you can't buy both! :D

JShirley
December 24, 2003, 02:51 PM
Any handgun capable of being carried well concealed will be underpowered compared to a shoulder arm.

With that in mind, rapid repeat shots matter.

In any case, I would largely make my decision based on whether you load, or not.

If you load, get a 10mm. You can start off with powder puff .40/.45 ACP standard pressure loads, about 980 fps with a 180 grain bullet.

If you don't load, and are on a budget, start with a dependable but cost-effective 9mm, such as a used Glock 19. CZ's seem to be available at good prices right now, as well. It sounds like you want a fairly versatile handgun, so be sure to get something you can conceal without too much difficulty. Glocks, Kahrs, and Kel-Tecs all work well for this, though the KT will probably have too much recoil and too little punch (3" barrel) for your purposes. (If you can shoot one well, though, you'll be able to shoot a Glock or 1911 like it's full auto!)

Have you written off revolvers? I know I had no attraction towards them when I first began buying firearms, but now, I'm appreciating them more every day. A .357 K-frame with a 3 or 4" barrel will cost less used than virtually any of the autoloaders mentioned, can shoot cheap .38 Special ammo, and can be loaded up to good deer loads.

Luck with whatever you decide.

John

cheygriz
December 24, 2003, 03:57 PM
I believe the 9MM is your best choice. The full size Glock 17 is one of the best platforms, although the Beretta 92 and the Sig P226 are superb as well.

Don't get hung up on the "caliber wars." The 9MM, .40, 10MM and .45 will all get the job done equally well if you put the bullet in the right place. They will all fail if you don't.

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