Funny ATF informational cartoon


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bsctov
November 24, 2010, 04:17 AM
http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/swf/toon4.html


I'm not sure all customers would be that understanding lol

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Dookie
November 24, 2010, 04:37 AM
the first "example" is bogus. No information was given that it was actually a straw purchase. For all we know "bobby" was telling the guy what he should buy. As in. You need to buy that. I have the money, OK.

Decent information. Good post.

elcaminoariba
November 24, 2010, 07:44 AM
ATF: new age loonie toons cartoons.

If ATF comes in your home, they help themselves to whatever they want: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/10/atf_agent_accused_of_stealing.html

ZCORR Jay
November 24, 2010, 08:32 AM
Gotta love the government instructional videos.

Wonder how much tax money it cost to make that.

M-Cameron
November 24, 2010, 08:44 AM
ah, ATF propaganda......

1.) Bobby may have appeared underage.....but the clerk never bothered to ask for ID.

2.) there was no mention that it was a handgun in the initial scene.....so how are you to know he wasnt looking at a rifle.

3.) there is no proof that Mr.Thomas was buying the gun for bobby.....bobby simply said that he should get "that" one.......


and does anyone like how the gun happened to be "black".........more "evil black gun" propaganda 'eh.......

The Bushmaster
November 24, 2010, 10:08 AM
The whole "cartoon" is bogus as far as I'm concerned. What ever happened to yesteryear. I purchased and owned handguns when I was 15. atf has gotten involved in restricting our rights ever sense they were contrived...

bigalexe
November 24, 2010, 10:16 AM
They had me laughing at the elevator music.

armoredman
November 24, 2010, 10:48 AM
Actually, I think I heard that music before, another "instructional" video, from the late 70s...
Yes, bogus.

Justin
November 24, 2010, 11:08 AM
The whole "cartoon" is bogus as far as I'm concerned. What ever happened to yesteryear. I purchased and owned handguns when I was 15. atf has gotten involved in restricting our rights ever sense they were contrived...

So the ATF shouldn't undertake actions to help FFL dealers stay on the right side of the law?

Instead, what? They should just not make instructional videos?

Look, we live in an imperfect world, and as such, there are rules and regulations that gun dealers and buyers have to abide by in order to make a purchase, and not abiding by those procedures can result in very harsh penalties. While it may feel good to anonymously vent your spleen about the ATF on a message board, none of that changes the reality of the situation.

As such, a stylistically milquetoast flash cartoon is the least of the kitten-stomping travesties committed by the ATF, and certainly not something to get worked up about.

TheCol.U.S.M.C.
November 24, 2010, 11:24 AM
This looked like training for the walmart or other big box store that sells guns if you have ever been in one of those, this cartoon might help some of the guys that work that counter

Ohh and I too am worried about all the "black" gun racism, can't they all just be rifles, or pistols or even guns why all this hate over color

dogtown tom
November 24, 2010, 12:10 PM
Dookie the first "example" is bogus. No information was given that it was actually a straw purchase. For all we know "bobby" was telling the guy what he should buy. As in. You need to buy that. I have the money, OK.
Not "bogus" by a long shot.
All it takes is the clerk being suspicious that a straw sale is occuring.


ZCORR Jay Gotta love the government instructional videos.
Wonder how much tax money it cost to make that.
I wish they had more educational materials. I would rather sit through that little video than sit in a cell.


M-Cameron ah, ATF propaganda......
Huh? Dude....this isn't some ad, it's a training video to show how straw sales can occur.


M-Cameron1.) Bobby may have appeared underage.....but the clerk never bothered to ask for ID. The clerk doesn't have to ask. Even if "Bobby" is 21, the clerk can stop the sale as Bobby is having someone else acquire the handgun for him.


M-Cameron2.) there was no mention that it was a handgun in the initial scene.....so how are you to know he wasnt looking at a rifle.
Geeze. "Bobby", the "Neighbor" and the clerk know it's a handgun....so just play along.:rolleyes:


M-Cameron3.) there is no proof that Mr.Thomas was buying the gun for bobby.....bobby simply said that he should get "that" one.......
Again, proof is not needed. The clerk can stop the sale on mere suspicion that a straw sale is occurring.


The Bushmaster The whole "cartoon" is bogus as far as I'm concerned. What ever happened to yesteryear. I purchased and owned handguns when I was 15. atf has gotten involved in restricting our rights ever sense they were contrived...
I don't know where you've been the last forty odd years, but that law has been in effect since 1968.

Blaming the ATF is misguided- they are tasked with enforcement of unconstitutional laws passed in 1934 and 1968. Blame lies squarely at the foot of Congress and the Presidents who were in office in 1934 & 1968.

David W. Gay
November 24, 2010, 02:20 PM
Opening Transcript from the cartoon:
Kid : That's it Mr. Thomas, the black one, right there.
Mr. T: Ok, I see it.
Clerk: Can I help you with something?
Mr. T: Yea, we'll take that one right there.
Clerk: You're Mr. Thomas, right?
Mr. T: Yes I am.
Clerk: Is this your son?
Mr. T: No, this is my neighbor, Bobby.

After first watch, I was with the "It's not a stray purchase" crowd. However, after listening closely, it's not really that clear. The problem starts with Mr. Thomas' statement, "...we'll take that one...", specifically the "we'll" part. By itself, maybe not an issue, but tied with, "No, this is my neighbor...", this seems to be a rather legally questionable transaction. Indictably so? Who knows, but I think it is reasonable for the clerk to decline the sale/transfer at that point. On the other had, if Mr. Thomas had said, "I'll take that one...", then I don't think there would be a problem. (IMNSHO)

Sure, there could be endless mitigating facts that could spin the situation endlessly, but that's not the case as presented.

As to whether or not the ATF should even be producing such "informational cartoons" - why not? At the very least, it provides insight on an obviously difficult to explain legal situation, and their take on the matter. And since they are the enforcers of the matter, their take on it matters, whether or not we think it matters. But that's another matter...

hso
November 24, 2010, 02:36 PM
I personally appreciate the fact that the BATFE is using simple training videos to help dealers comply with the requirements and that they make them available to anyone interested in seeing them. They should edit the sound track to make it impossible for someone to miss that a handgun purchase is taking place, other than that it looks pretty good.

Here's the link to all of the training videos. http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/

Nomad, 2nd
November 24, 2010, 03:02 PM
Gift what?

Topcat
November 24, 2010, 03:17 PM
I don't know where you've been the last forty odd years, but that law has been in effect since 1968.

Blaming the ATF is misguided- they are tasked with enforcement of unconstitutional laws passed in 1934 and 1968. Sorry that "I was only following orders" hasn't worked since the Nuremburg trials.

M-Cameron
November 24, 2010, 04:22 PM
Huh? Dude....this isn't some ad, it's a training video to show how straw sales can occur.

hrmm.....who better to spread your message to than straight to the ones selling the guns.......

all propaganda isnt high contrast red on black pictured of Stalin or Hitler....when you spend a lot of time researching it, it actually becomes painfully easy to see.


M-Cameron1.) Bobby may have appeared underage.....but the clerk never bothered to ask for ID.
The clerk doesn't have to ask. Even if "Bobby" is 21, the clerk can stop the sale as Bobby is having someone else acquire the handgun for him.


there is honestly little to know reason to suspect that.......yeah sure in this video it was some creepy old guy and a kid.....but what if it were 2 30 year old guys.....there would be no reason to suspect anything out of the ordinary.



M-Cameron2.) there was no mention that it was a handgun in the initial scene.....so how are you to know he wasnt looking at a rifle.

Geeze. "Bobby", the "Neighbor" and the clerk know it's a handgun....so just play along.

yes, by and by "playing along" you are subconsciously putting yourself at a predisposition to continue to "play along" and are more likely to agree with what they say in the future.


M-Cameron3.) there is no proof that Mr.Thomas was buying the gun for bobby.....bobby simply said that he should get "that" one.......
Again, proof is not needed. The clerk can stop the sale on mere suspicion that a straw sale is occurring.

again, there was nothing there that would raise suspicion......now if one person handled and inspected the gun, did all the talking and had the money, and then the other person filled out the form and passed the background check.....then yeah, that would be suspicious......

what they are doing in this video is making it easier for the clerk to assume something illegal is going on.....

fireman 9731
November 24, 2010, 04:46 PM
The ATF treats us like kids.... whats new?

rfwobbly
November 24, 2010, 05:06 PM
Ohh and I too am worried about all the "black" gun racism, can't they all just be rifles, or pistols or even guns? Why all this hate over color?

Exactly. Can't all the guns "just learn to get along".

Erik M
November 24, 2010, 05:38 PM
Someone at the BATFE can make cartoons with flash? impressive even if it looks like it was made 10 years ago.

dogtown tom
November 24, 2010, 09:47 PM
Topcat Quote:
I don't know where you've been the last forty odd years, but that law has been in effect since 1968. Blaming the ATF is misguided- they are tasked with enforcement of unconstitutional laws passed in 1934 and 1968.

Sorry that "I was only following orders" hasn't worked since the Nuremburg trials.
Your comment is nonsensical in the context of this thread.
ATF can only enforce laws that are passed by Congress. As a regulatory agency they (like many other) have wide latitude in how they do so. It is in my best interest as a firearms dealer to follow those laws. ATF's little video that so many are making fun of is one means to educate FFL's on straw purchases.

M-Cameron Quote:
Huh? Dude....this isn't some ad, it's a training video to show how straw sales can occur.

hrmm.....who better to spread your message to than straight to the ones selling the guns.......
This is a training video for GUN DEALERS! I don't think your tin foil hat allows you to see clearly. While you may think it propaganda it isn't. If you were a gun dealer you would understand that. Go get your FFL and then get snarky about ATF showing you how not to go to jail.

all propaganda isnt high contrast red on black pictured of Stalin or Hitler....when you spend a lot of time researching it, it actually becomes painfully easy to see.
Explain it to us before the aliens come back for you.

...but what if it were 2 30 year old guys.....there would be no reason to suspect anything out of the ordinary...
Again you fail. It's good you aren't a firearms dealer. Spend some time at a gun counter or a dealers table at a gun show. You meet all kinds of interesting folks who ask all about a gun only to walk off and return with a friend who wants to buy the gun he's never touched until now.

yes, by and by "playing along" you are subconsciously putting yourself at a predisposition to continue to "play along" and are more likely to agree with what they say in the future.
By "play along" I meant for you to allow your brain accept that ALL THREE OF THE PRETEND PEOPLE KNOW ITS A HANDGUN. But you knew that.

By merely agreeing with the three cartoon characters in the video (that they are talking about a handgun) you don't instantly submit to ATF's subconscious propaganda....you have to give them your email address for that.

again, there was nothing there that would raise suspicion......
Really?
You fail again.

M2
November 24, 2010, 11:28 PM
"Funny?" I didn't see anything "funny" about it!

Did anyone else watch the other videos Just replace the number at the end of the URL with a 1, 2, etc. They are kinda interesting, it gives you some insight into the type of information the BATFE feels is important for dealers to know...

Cheers! M2

wyocarp
November 24, 2010, 11:58 PM
Well, I am a FFL and I don't think gun stores should have to make decissions about what the ATF is calling a straw purchase.

I also don't feel that people should be restricted from buying a handgun because of his/her state of residence.

I also feel that if someone is 18, they should be able to buy handguns from a gun store and not just from private individuals.



Because I have to, I do these things. I turned down a sale today because the 40 year old lady was from another state. I turned down a sale today because a student wasn't 21 and therefore couldn't buy the pistol grip mossberg.

The gift thing/straw purchase is a can of worms.

Mainsail
November 25, 2010, 07:13 PM
Funny ATF informational cartoon
http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms...swf/toon4.html

It looks like there are eight in the series. Just swap out the last number in the address for 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, or 8.

Like this: http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/swf/toon1.html

or http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/swf/toon2.html

il_10
November 26, 2010, 02:36 PM
... so it can't be a gift unless the person doing the gifting is the boy's father? I'm fairly sure that's not the case.

Wyocarp: When I bought my mossberg at 18 it was the persuader model with the full stock, but came with the pistol grip as well. That way you're not transferring a PGO shotgun (not a shotgun on the forms) and the kid gets his PGO shotgun when he makes it, legally, at a later date.

Topcat
November 26, 2010, 03:13 PM
It is not funny but sad if the best "training" gun dealers get comes from a cartoon.

Rshooter
November 26, 2010, 04:01 PM
Reminds me of the Army cartoons when they treated everyone like they had an IQ of 60.

bsctov
November 26, 2010, 04:43 PM
I don't know why, but I just cracked up when he said "NO, This is my Neighbor BOBBY!" :neener:

dogtown tom
November 26, 2010, 05:37 PM
Topcat I't is not funny but sad if the best "training" gun dealers get comes from a cartoon.

Who said it was the "best"?:scrutiny:

Based on the general ignorance of Federal firearms law as displayed in this thread, ATF may want to expand these cartoons to the public.

Topcat
November 26, 2010, 07:43 PM
When I said "best" that's called SARCASM :neener:

therewolf
November 26, 2010, 07:51 PM
IMO, we, as legal gun owners, have a responsibility to ourselves and every legal gun owner nationwide.

THR means something to me. We have a moral obligation, when we proudly embark on "The High Road" to the NRA and all our other RKBA organizations to hold ourselves to the highest standards of gun acquisition, in order to make acquiring a gun illegally as hard as possible.

ATF and FFLs notwithstanding,we have a separate responsibility to ourselves as a whole, to create as few incidences which the anti's can use against us as possible.

I know not what course others may take, but I will never allow a straw purchase.

At the very least, parsing words aside, this cartoon would be a great addition to the Eddie Eagle Children's collection.

Topcat
November 26, 2010, 07:59 PM
I think that people who do straw purchases for criminals (to make money) is far more important than someone who might do it (accidently apparently,) for some neighbor kid.

A.H. Fox
December 3, 2010, 11:52 AM
[adjusting tinfoil hat]...since when did the BATFE need to determine whether or not ANY firearms law was ACTUALLY violated to come down on anyone?:uhoh:

mustang_steve
December 3, 2010, 01:06 PM
instead of replacing numbers in the URL to see them all, here's the main page for them.
http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/

Mainsail
December 3, 2010, 04:29 PM
instead of replacing numbers in the URL to see them all, here's the main page for them.
http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms...rning-theater/

Well, yeah, if you want to do it all easy like...

:D

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