How Many are Now Carrying a Cane?


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the iron horse
November 27, 2010, 09:21 PM
I'm far from a rocking chair, but I'm starting to
carry a cane out in public.

It's legal everywhere;)

You know, years ago, it
was one item a young man would always have at his side.

self defense was one of the reasons

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REAPER4206969
November 27, 2010, 09:30 PM
Why not just carry a collapsible baton if you're into that whole skull crushing thing?

wrs840
November 27, 2010, 09:37 PM
Do you mean a shootin' cane? ...a stickin' cane, ...or a whompin' cane?

Les

hmphargh
November 27, 2010, 10:12 PM
Why not just carry a collapsible baton if you're into that whole skull crushing thing?
Not Legal in a lot of states, including my own. I fall into the "sometimes" category, but "rarely" would probably be more appropriate.

Brian Williams
November 27, 2010, 11:18 PM
Yep, it is a nice Oak Stock style cane, works very well.

hso
November 28, 2010, 12:18 AM
You can explain a cane any time anywhere "Naw, it don't hold me up, just keeps me from falling down sometime.". Not so much a baton.

Gordon
November 28, 2010, 12:21 AM
Another seasoned citizen who carries an oaken stock cane=sometimes .

GCBurner
November 28, 2010, 12:30 AM
If your beard is turning gray, nobody questions why you're carrying a stick on your walks.

Nomad, 2nd
November 28, 2010, 02:34 AM
Cold Steel City Stick.

Give me hell on airlines (I also use it some when I need to be on my feet alot)

I offer to show my perscription narcodics, scars on my feet, and Retired ID.
(Medical)

...Shuts em up.

bikerdoc
November 28, 2010, 06:21 AM
Ya, It comes with age and infirmity. I advise you get some training.

Dave Markowitz
November 28, 2010, 12:12 PM
If your beard is turning gray, nobody questions why you're carrying a stick on your walks.

And people frequently open doors for you. :)

This blackthorn is both a means of support and a self defense weapon.

http://flintlock.org/zenphoto/cache/valley-green-11272010/img_20101127_144029_595.jpg

Carl Levitian
November 28, 2010, 01:52 PM
My blackthorn has traveled with me to England, Germany, France, Italy, as well as all over the U.S. on airlines. I can't think of another defense tool I can do that with.

Plus it gives me something to lean on in museums.

Carl.

hso
November 28, 2010, 02:07 PM
I've never had a peep said about my cane flying nationally/internationally other than to ask if I needed help through the arch while they scan my cane. I just reply (with a grin and a wink), "I don't need it to hold me up all the time, just to keep me from falling down some of the time. ;)3 knee surgeries, the cost of an overactive youth. :rolleyes:".

Clipper
November 28, 2010, 04:49 PM
The 6-ounce heads on my sticks can be pretty powerful defensive tools...Like maces.

Deltaboy
November 28, 2010, 05:29 PM
I have a testy right ankle and when it doesn't feel right I carry a cane and I also carry it at night. I have 4 of them.

PTK
November 28, 2010, 05:37 PM
Due to prior injuries, I generally carry a cane with me. The fact it can be used quite effectively as a defensive weapon is incidental. ;)

heron
November 28, 2010, 06:50 PM
I do, always -- bad hip. I've never had to use it for anything but support, thankfully. That's bad enough.

When I started using canes, I found out why they fell out of favor as a fashion accessory -- they're a big bother.

narco99
November 28, 2010, 06:58 PM
I sometimes carry a hickory stock cane modified with a striking edge or a custom Barry Dawson sword cane. I also have a Cold Steel Slim stick and Livesay Gray Ghost that I sometime use when hiking. Carried mostly when taking my dogs for a walk.

Dave McCracken
November 29, 2010, 10:35 AM
I have a couple and am about to get another from the family. With a titanium hip, a bad knee and 64 high mileage years on the clock, no one questions my having a heavy,sturdy stick.

And, no formal training, but 20 years of working in Medium and Max security prisons left me with some practical, hands on experience.

JohnD13
November 29, 2010, 11:06 AM
A back injury and the resuting loss of reflexes in one leg justify the cane. American Cane CO. make a fine one that incidentally make a fine defensive tool. I've actually been "interviewed" by a trooper who thought my blackthorn looked too much like a sword cane/weapon, so now it's a nice maple and cherrywood cane.

ForumSurfer
November 29, 2010, 11:47 AM
I don't carry one for self defense and have no desire to.

I have used one in the past when recovering from several injuries related to a rather rough motorcycle accident. It was just a plain ol' hickory stick. I wasn't happy to be using it and I was glad to stop using it...but I was young and anxious to be recuperated.

If I needed one, I'd use one and not care too much what a THR poll or anyone else said about it. :D That being said, if I needed and used one...I'd work it into my SD plan since it is there, anyway and it is a viable tool.

Having been injured and forced into using a cane...I don't plan on using one until I need it (hopefully years from now), for self defense or otherwise.

claypipe
November 29, 2010, 09:40 PM
I'm far from a rocking chair, but I'm starting to
carry a cane out in public.

It's legal everywhere;)

You know, years ago, it
was one item a young man would always have at his side.

self defense was one of the reasons
Well, I suffer from two collapsed discs in my lower back, as well as traveling gout. So a cane is sometimes a necessity.

I have been practicing obscure martial arts forms since I was 15 years old. So, I have a few cane styles under my belt. My favorite cane, when I am out and about in New Orleans, is one I had crafted by a local iron worker. It is solid steel and weighs about 12 pounds.

To look at it, it appears to be a run of the mill, black, old fart's, walking cane. Imagine how disinterested a mugger would become when this cane's tip is brought down on their instep.

http://www.handgonne.com/claypipe/pence.gif

Erik M
November 29, 2010, 11:02 PM
Im not even 30 years old yet but Ive developed a problem with my sciatic nerve, that got my interested in getting a cane to use discreetly. THR showed me that in a pinch it could be used for self defense.

Nice example of an authentic blackthorn Dave.

Limeyfellow
November 30, 2010, 05:20 PM
I occasionally carry a cane or walking stick when out hiking or in the forest, but thats about it really. It is more for balance than anything protective so far.

wheelgunslinger
November 30, 2010, 05:44 PM
I can't pull it off. Everything works too well on me still, and I'm in pretty obvious good condition from working out and Yoga.

Every once in a while, I get a twinge in my right ankle after backpacking too much pack weight for a day or so. Other than the days following that, I'm stuck on two legs with no cane.

Carl Levitian
December 1, 2010, 12:01 PM
"I can't pull it off. Everything works too well on me still, and I'm in pretty obvious good condition from working out and Yoga.

Every once in a while, I get a twinge in my right ankle after backpacking too much pack weight for a day or so. Other than the days following that, I'm stuck on two legs with no cane."
__________________

I see answers like this all the time, and I think it's too bad. Here we are in a free country, and the political correctness police have us intimidated. The heck with them! Why do we need to justify anything we do as long as we're not breaking any of their insane laws.

wheelgunslinger, if you want, go ahead and carry a nice rustic walking stick like a blackthorn or hornbeam. If anyone does say something, just tell them an old injury from backpacking, soccer, rugby, golf, ping pong, or whatever is acting up a little, and giving you some trouble now and then. That's all you have to say. Okay, ping pong and golf is a bit of a reach.:D

But you don't have to justify it to any one. In fact, if you want, just tell them the truth, it's a head knocker. One of my neighbors, a really big guy named Terry, is about 6' 3'ish and easy in the 250 pound class. We walk our corgi's together as our corgi Pearl is is his family's corgi's litter mate sister. We live in a decent middle class neighborhood, but when out walking the dogs, Terry carries his headknocker as he calls it. He's very above board with it. It's one of those walking sticks with the big brass thing that's part of a horse harness for a knob on top. Not only does Terry not get any grief over it, but a few of the single women wait at night till they see him or I walking by, then they come out to walk their little flou flou dogs. They seem to like the idea of a couple of menfolk with big sticks close by.

If you want to carry a walking stick, make it one of the rough rustic looking ones, and play it off as an old injury if you feel a bit awkward doing it. After a few times of people seeing you with it, it becomes part of your persona, and people stop seeing it as something different. People adjust very quickly to new things. It's part of human adaptability. If you just do it, it becomes part of you.

I was just turning 30 years old when I had my construction accident while serving in the Army Engineers. Just halfway to my intended 20 year career, I found myself at Walter Reed learning to walk again on my right leg and foot. They gave me a cane with my medical discharge, and I hated the old fogy cane. My old Irish Uncle Pat, gave me a real Irish blackthorn, a knarley one with little nubs where the spiky thorns were and a nice knobby head. I loved that stick. I ditched the old fogy cane and never looked back. I healed up pretty good, and hardly had a wee bit of a limp, but the blackthorn b ecame my constant companion. On good days, I didn't really need it if I was on good even footing like pavement, but I carried it anyways. Over the past 3 plus decades, I think it actually kept me out of a few sticky situations. Having something right there in my hand was a very very good thing.

Go for it wheelgunslinger. Don't let the liberals stop you from doing something totally legal.

Carl.

Fred Fuller
December 1, 2010, 06:13 PM
Only when I go dancin'...

lpl ( http://www.reocities.com/glendoyle/bata/ )

glistam
December 1, 2010, 06:17 PM
I seem to one of those rare fellows who is younger and has no physical impairment, but I walk with a stick. It's just how I've always been. To me a cane is just a short hiking stick, and I've loved the outdoors since I could walk, just like my dad. Nobody's ever questioned it, and to many people I know, it is just part of me as Carl says.

I've always carried sticks I made myself (working on a new one (http://s443.photobucket.com/albums/qq157/glistam/Woodworking/) as we speak). For one, it makes a very non-hostile distraction when anyone draws attention to it. It usually goes "Nice stick." "Oh thanks, made it myself. It's [insert wood] with [stain color]." And if I trust them to hold it (like if their a guard), I let them. It deflects any suspicion that it's a weapon. At worst they think I'm just a hayseed who likes to whittle.

I don't carry all the time though. My workplace is safe and has armed guards, so it stays in the car for practicality. Though if I have to take public transport to work I do carry. There are times when it's not practical to carry, like when shopping where I need to carry things, so I take my baton instead.

oldbanjo
December 1, 2010, 06:43 PM
I do very little walking, use a Motor Scooter around here, but I always have a walking stick with me, I use it as a shooting stick. I have 8 or 10 walking sticks and 10 or more walking canes. Many I made from 7/8" oak w/brass Duck Head or Eagle Head for handle. Some are Hickory with Heavy handles. I've never counted them their in every corner. When I learn how to put pictures or this site I'll take some pictures. Canes with knives could get you in a lot of trouble.

oldbanjo
December 1, 2010, 07:15 PM
I took a quick count and there's 17 between me and the front door. When I go on trips, I look for nice heavy walking Canes. Some people collect knives I collect Canes. I bought a real nice one in Hilton Head it is one piece of wood and looks like a Crane (Bird), the neck loops around and makes a handle and the birds head crosses the cane. It's made from one solid piece of wood. Never seen another one like it. I've got a Sheep herding staff also. There are more across the street in my Tool/work Bldg.

wheelgunslinger
December 1, 2010, 09:37 PM
Carl, thanks for your response. I've enjoyed reading your many well written tales here on THR.

It's not so much about political correctness as it is about not letting someone be able to read me and my ability to respond to a threat. Maybe I'll rethink it.

usmccpl
December 2, 2010, 02:29 PM
I got two blackthorn walking sticks. One is real one is a Coldsteel. After spinal injuries, knee injuries, and ankle injuries I suffered in the Corps at times I need them. Not always but it happens though I always grab one as soon as the eyeballs open in the AM.

Deltaboy
December 2, 2010, 11:10 PM
My old football and basketball ankle gives me some trouble. I carry one almost all the time.

Mr Moose
December 6, 2010, 01:22 PM
I just got this a Cold Steel Blackthorn Replica. I am 6'3 so it is just about an inch short. But it is pretty sturdy. Sorry bout the bad picture. I could see using this in a defensive way if needed. Paid 36.00 and some change. Got it thru amazon.

JShirley
December 6, 2010, 01:53 PM
Welcome to THR, claypipe and Mr. Moose.

I usually have only carried a stick when hiking, and then, it's a 4'/jo length. Sadly enough, about the only time I have knee problems, is when I train more than 2x or so a week...:(

I've had times when I was bordering on professional athlete physical condition, but had to hobble for the first 20 or 30 steps when I stood up. I was really afraid my knees wouldn't be up to ITB (Infantry Basic), but no worries. It seems ruckmarching is easier on knees than martial arts!

John

Ole Coot
December 7, 2010, 02:24 PM
Don't need to "pull anything off" a cane is legal for anyone to carry for any age & physical condition. Do a little research on one as a weapon that can be carried anywhere. I have never had a problem and consider it as a great weapon with training.

Mr Moose
December 7, 2010, 05:51 PM
Thanks for the welcome John, Gotta say I really like the artificial blackthorn. I did get some cane tips but they are too small or i need to warm up the rubber to get one on. Before I had this one I carried a big ole hickory pole that was polished and had a lanyard thru it and I didn't care to much for it. I also used a collapsible Walking Stick from LL Bean it was nice but didn't give any support. The other thing is it probably would have been useless in a defensive type situation.

Deltaboy
December 26, 2010, 10:36 PM
Carry your cane with Pride just like the men did in the days of Dr. Watson.

stanger04
December 26, 2010, 11:04 PM
29 years old, injured at work (tore my achillies tendon) I use a cane sometimes, beats crutches. Until seeing this never thought of it as defense but hey why not, a cane reaches farther than a knife especially when I can't carry.

Carl Levitian
December 26, 2010, 11:52 PM
"Carry your cane with Pride just like the men did in the days of Dr. Watson."

Darn good point, Deltaboy!

It's a cryin shame that this nation has become sooo PC, that some feel the need to explain carrying something that is totally leagal, EVERYWHERE!

Even in proper old Victorian England, a man carried a stout walking stick with no feeling self consciousness at all. They did have in fact, schools in London and Paris on how to use the stick for defensive use.

Carry the cane with pride and use it with vigor when needed.

Or just pretend you're the walkin boss in Cool Hand Luke.

Carl.

Nematocyst
December 27, 2010, 12:13 AM
Quote from Braveheart:

Stephen: The Almighty says this must be a fashionable fight.
It's drawn the finest people.

Nematocyst
December 27, 2010, 12:33 AM
I voted "sometimes".

But it's not quite right. What I carry sometimes is not a 'cane' but a walking stick.

Well, actually, it's a Black Diamond solo trekking pole (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Alpine-Carbon-Trekking/dp/B001V7WRCA) for back packing.
Works well on ice and snow, too, as in what's accumulating here in Maine now.
(12" - 16" in the first big blizzard of the year.)

The carbide tip is great for penetrating ice,
but could be deadly if needed for protection against an attack,
says one who's practiced SD moves using trees, and seen how deeply that point can penetrate.

Grunt Medic TXARNG
December 27, 2010, 12:51 AM
Another option is the unbreakable walking-stick umbrella. Not cheap, but can be carried onto the airlines without difficulty.

http://www.real-self-defense.com/unbreakable-umbrella.html

oldbear
December 27, 2010, 03:19 PM
As I get older, 98% of the time I feel very well armed with my cane, and my .357 Magnum covers the other 2%.

Deltaboy
January 2, 2011, 06:42 PM
Canes have many great uses I used mine to remove my outdoor Christmas lights.

White Horseradish
January 3, 2011, 01:08 AM
I don't have one now. I will in a little while when I start walking again. Right now I'm growing some scar tissue over hardware holding my ankle together.

Damned ice... :cuss:

Nematocyst
January 3, 2011, 02:48 AM
White Horse, hang in there.

Check out Andrew Weil's book,
Spontaneous Healing (http://www.amazon.com/Spontaneous-Healing-Discover-Enhance-Maintain/dp/0449910644).

White Horseradish
January 3, 2011, 08:15 AM
Thanks, Mr. Cyst. :D

I'll check into the book, that a respectable beard that guy is sporting.

HiWayMan
January 3, 2011, 08:45 AM
Canes have many great uses I used mine to remove my outdoor Christmas lights.

And for smashing spiders that are on the ceiling.......and for wrangling cats from behind the couch.

kayak-man
January 3, 2011, 09:00 PM
And for smashing spiders that are on the ceiling.......and for wrangling cats from behind the couch. And for silencing the neighbors cat.

I usually don't carry a cane. I'm recovering from shoulder surgery, and don't have very good use of my right arm, so it would handy cap me a bit on the everyday tasks like opening doors. I tend to use a hiking stick in the woods - helps me to keep my distance from a few dogs in that area.


White Horse, hope you get better soon!


Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

Loyalist Dave
January 3, 2011, 10:12 PM
This blackthorn is both a means of support and a self defense weapon.

So is mine. I don't need a cane, though once in a while my knee gets very stiff. I carry a good walking stick, sometimes to supplement a CCF, sometimes as I cannot carry a CCF. It's to keep and bear arms, not just guns, right?

LD

Nematocyst
January 3, 2011, 11:27 PM
This blackthorn is both a means of support and a self defense weapon.Here's an interesting essay on the blackthorn (http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/aemblem/shillelagh.html) (originally oak, apparently) Irish stick.

And here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d43qH9w5Dow&feature=BF&list=PL4B95258B4D9255D1&index=4) about its use.

Dave, have you ever trained with yours? Traditional Irish, or something else?

stickwhistler
January 4, 2011, 05:00 AM
http://www.tg4.tv/main.aspx?level=anam&content=404945511425

The link takes you to an Irish Language programme about
the history and use of the stick in what the programme
calls 'Fight Clubs'. Bloody, violent battles between gangs (Factions).

There are English subtitles for those who can't speak
the native language.

The link is to pt1, with pt2 and pt3 available from the
links on the right hand side of the page.
Total viewing time for all 3 parts about 50 minutes.

Well worth the time IMHO.

Deltaboy
January 4, 2011, 07:35 PM
I don't have one now. I will in a little while when I start walking again. Right now I'm growing some scar tissue over hardware holding my ankle together.

Damned ice... :cuss:
Prayers for you!

Nematocyst
January 4, 2011, 09:03 PM
The link takes you to an Irish Language programme about
the history and use of the stick in what the programme
calls 'Fight Clubs'. Bloody, violent battles between gangs (Factions).StickWhistler, I just watched parts 1 and 2 during dinner.

Fascinating. Brutal and fierce they were.
I had no knowledge of these fights before now.

Do you (or anyone) know of videos or other pages about the techniques used in this style of fighting?
It appears to be significantly different from FMA and other forms of stick fighting that I know a little bit about.

Diamondback6
January 4, 2011, 09:11 PM
I'm starting to look for one. Preferably a "reinforced" version made to look like one of Dr. House's...

Nematocyst
January 4, 2011, 09:37 PM
Do you (or anyone) know of videos or other pages about
the techniques used in this style of fighting?Here's an overview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d43qH9w5Dow) of the basics by an ostensible master.

Of course, this can't take the place of real instruction, but it offers a nice overview.

I'm starting to understand more of the benefits of the traditional 1/3 grip for hand switching and blocking.

There is an excellent overview video of the Irish stick here (http://www.fightingfaction.com/). I'm impressed.

hso
January 4, 2011, 10:02 PM
Be careful of skimming material. Irish canes and cudgels and "shillelagh" are different things. Also understand that all canes in Ireland weren't made from blackthorn, but all blackthorn canes are by their very nature from the blackthorn, unless they're apple or other (plastic <shuddr>) imitations.

Check the old La Canne treatise for some period material.

Nematocyst
January 4, 2011, 10:09 PM
Be careful of skimming material.Not sure what you mean by that.

For me, an "overview" is merely a way of gleaning the barest insight into an art,
to get some meager sense of whether I'd want to study it in depth or not.

As I stated clearly above, it's not a replacement for in-depth instruction by a real person.

Deltaboy
January 7, 2011, 10:40 PM
I love canes and fighting with me for me is just using what I learned in my MA classes. What you can do with a JO you can do with a Cane. Modern Irish Cane fighting shows many added SEA MA foot movements.

Tom609
January 14, 2011, 04:07 PM
Living in NJ, my carry options are very limited. In the last few weeks I've read the several threads here - new and old - about canes. Thanks to Carl, Deltaboy and many others, I recently bought two - the elephant cane from Nasco, and just the other day, a beautiful Blackthorn Walking Stick from LollySmith. I think I feel a collection starting. The elephant cane is great when walking the little dog at night - we have some nasty 4-legged critters in the Pines. The Blackthorn is my "goin out" stick because we also have our share of nasty 2-legged critters. I'm old enough so it doesn't attract unwanted attention, but I do plan to "carry it with pride" and, if necessary, use it with vigor.

Anyway, thanks to all for a lot of very informative reading.

Deltaboy
January 15, 2011, 12:06 AM
Living in NJ, my carry options are very limited. In the last few weeks I've read the several threads here - new and old - about canes. Thanks to Carl, Deltaboy and many others, I recently bought two - the elephant cane from Nasco, and just the other day, a beautiful Blackthorn Walking Stick from LollySmith. I think I feel a collection starting. The elephant cane is great when walking the little dog at night - we have some nasty 4-legged critters in the Pines. The Blackthorn is my "goin out" stick because we also have our share of nasty 2-legged critters. I'm old enough so it doesn't attract unwanted attention, but I do plan to "carry it with pride" and, if necessary, use it with vigor.

Anyway, thanks to all for a lot of very informative reading.
Good for you. Have a great time with your canes !

Carl Levitian
January 15, 2011, 04:01 PM
Good going Tom!

I too like to have my stoutest stick in hand when I give our corgi her last walk of the night. We have both two legged and four legged critters roaming around. Like you, Maryland limits what I can carry, so we have to make do.

How close are you to the Pine Barrens? I've always meant to take my canoe up there for a back country paddle, and maybe a camp out.

Carl.

Tom609
January 15, 2011, 05:03 PM
Hi Carl. I'm actually in the Pinelands, although not far enough in so that you can hear the banjos :)

It's a great area for canoeing, as you know, and also for my personal favorite, cycling. It almost makes you forget you're in NJ.
Be well!

Nematocyst
January 15, 2011, 07:13 PM
I'm trying to find a source of the kind of stick that Glen Doyle and his students are using in the video on this page (http://www.fightingfaction.com/).

The ones I'm most interested in are cane length, very straight (appear to be milled), but with an interesting head on it. Not at all a traditional hook or handle, but looks something like a milled mimic version of a blackthorn root. There are several of them in the first few seconds of the film. I captured the image below which offers a close up.

That one appears to have a squared cross section, but others appear to be more round.

Are the training sticks/canes?

If anyone knows of a source, please let me know. I've written him to inquire, but haven't heard back yet.

(He probably will respond; he has recently when I wrote to inquire of the location of his studio. Toronto.)

starbuck6264
January 15, 2011, 09:01 PM
I have been looking at Cold Steels Irish Blackthorn walking stick as well as there city stick. Does anyone have any experience with either of these canes/walking sticks?

Nematocyst
January 15, 2011, 09:24 PM
Starbuck, I haven't seen either, but some reviews I read about the Blackthorn (Amazon, I think) indicated that the head was gigantic, suitable for really large hands, but not small ones like mine. I'm going to pass on it.

The city stick may still be a contender for me.

Nematocyst
January 15, 2011, 09:33 PM
I've spent a couple of hours watching and re-watching videos of Glen Doyle's (http://www.fightingfaction.com/) training seminars on Irish stick fighting.

I continue to be impressed with this stick fighting style.

As some of you know, a year or so ago, I found FMA, and was impressed.

This makes even more sense to me. (Maybe because I'm Scots/Irish, and love walking sticks.) The length of the cane offers more possibilities than a kali stick, and it serves as a walking aid (which kali stick does not). The way they choke up on it, and use a two-handed approach from which strikes can be made to left or right is very intuitive to me.

Here are three videos of Doyle that are worth watching repeatedly.
I hope to find live instruction around my region somewhere.

One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d43qH9w5Dow&feature=related)

Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d43qH9w5Dow&feature=related)

Three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htxSmrJHnVk&feature=related)

Tom609
January 15, 2011, 10:26 PM
Definitely worth bookmarking and watching regularly. Thank you too for a lot of good info.

Tomcat47
January 16, 2011, 12:24 AM
Always have my walking cane in truck. Pick and choose enviroment when I walk with it.

I like this thread because I never really thought about the very reason I use it from time to time. It is neat to see how the mind protects the rest of you...subconsiously in a way!

Most of time against possible animal attack but occassionally the thought of the possible bad guy.

The Cold Steel City Stick is now on order! One for me and the wife! :cool:

Nematocyst
January 16, 2011, 11:17 AM
If anyone knows of a source [for the sticks that Glen Doyle uses in his courses], please let me know.
I've written him to inquire, but haven't heard back yet.I received a response from him.

They are produced by a person in Canada. I have his address, and will contact him for details, and report back here. Then, if anyone is interested, you can PM me for contact info.

Glen said that he uses a replica instead of original blackthorn due to the intensity of his classes which would be expensive if using actual blackthorns. So, they're mainly training sticks.

Deltaboy
January 16, 2011, 05:13 PM
The Cold Steel one is a nice fake for the price and is pretty tough.


I carry my hardwood stock cane 80% of the time.

glistam
January 17, 2011, 12:55 PM
I have been looking at Cold Steels Irish Blackthorn walking stick as well as there city stick. Does anyone have any experience with either of these canes/walking sticks?

I have the Pistol-handle city stick. The head is solid steel and quite heavy while the body is very slender and very light weight. It would do some serious damage if used as a club. But due to this peculiar disparity in weight, the techniques one would use might need some tweaking. If you held the handle end and hit with the light shaft, it works akin to a rigid sjambok.

I admit the CS City Sticks all look a little too fancy for EDC, but I do take them on more formal outings, especially into DC where weapon restrictions tend to be very tight.

Carl Levitian
January 17, 2011, 02:18 PM
"I admit the CS City Sticks all look a little too fancy for EDC, but I do take them on more formal outings, especially into DC where weapon restrictions tend to be very tight."


You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din!

When I go downtown, I carry my heaviest most knarley blackthorn.:D

Carl.

Nematocyst
January 17, 2011, 04:05 PM
Carl, do you have a link to the blackthorn that you prefer,
assuming it is available on line somewhere?

Tom609
January 17, 2011, 09:28 PM
I just purchased my Blackthorn here http://lollysmith.com/wlstac.html

GURU1911
January 19, 2011, 11:09 AM
Is the blackthorn in the photo made of synthetic or natural root?
My 60 year old fuzzy eyes indicate it is the "cold steel" poly-blackthorn stick. If i am correct, how do you like it ??? I have reached a point in my life to consider purchasing one.

Deltaboy
January 23, 2011, 01:35 AM
I like my coldsteel one so far. It is built like a TANK!

Nematocyst
January 24, 2011, 06:38 PM
This is a question for those knowledgeable about wood (at least more than me).

If you were going to buy a cane/walking stick ("knob stick") that could be used as a fighter,
didn't want blackthorn, and had a choice of the following woods, which would you buy, and why?

Ash, Hazel, or Apple.

Carl Levitian
January 24, 2011, 07:04 PM
"If you were going to buy a cane/walking stick ("knob stick") that could be used as a fighter,
didn't want blackthorn, and had a choice of the following woods, which would you buy, and why?

Ash, Hazel, or Apple. "


I'd go with ash. I think I read someplace that that's the choice of the Louisville Slugger. I do know it's a choice of many tool handles, and the London Bobbies short billy is made of ash. Good tough wood with nice impact resistance. If indeed it is the choice of the Louisville Slugger company, that's good enough for me!

Carl.

HiWayMan
January 25, 2011, 08:20 AM
Crab Apple is very strong and has a bit of a knotty appearance similiar to blackthorn. I see Lollysmith has some that they say are made of "Cider" Apple, but I'm not sure it is the same. It is hard to go wrong with Ash, as it is historically strong as pointed out by Carl. I have no experience with Hazel.

I would think you would want a nice tight, straight grain regardless of the wood you choose. And on that note would not discount Hickory as well.

Carl Levitian
January 25, 2011, 10:51 AM
"Crab Apple is very strong and has a bit of a knotty appearance similiar to blackthorn. I see Lollysmith has some that they say are made of "Cider" Apple, but I'm not sure it is the same. It is hard to go wrong with Ash, as it is historically strong as pointed out by Carl. I have no experience with Hazel."


I forgot about the crab apple vs the regular apple.

Bill Moran loved making walking sticks, and experimented with all kinds of woods. One day I stopped by his shop to shoot the bull, and he was finishing up a walking stick from crab apple. He'd left the little spikes on where there was branches, and the effect was a knarly, spiky stick that loooked mean. Of course, Bill being Bill, he then tested it out on an the brush out back of his shop, and an old duffle bag stuffed with rags hanging from a rafter. It tore the ever loving stuff out of the canvas bag. The crab apple proved to be one tough piece of wood. Almost right up there with Bill's favorite wood, Horn beam.

I don't know if regular apple is as tough as the crab apple.

Carl.

Deltaboy
January 25, 2011, 10:37 PM
I might have to get Crabby with my next cane purchase Carl! :D


Wear a hat and walk with a cane, You will be seen as a Gentleman who can dish out some serious pain.

Nematocyst
January 26, 2011, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the feedback about woods, guys.

The apple knobstick that I'm looking at is from cider apple, not crab, unfortunately.

I think I'd like to go with the ash - it's hard and truly beautiful - but he appears to be out of them. He's checking into it.

Tom609
January 26, 2011, 09:56 PM
http://houseofcanes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_11&products_id=486

I got this Hazel wood stick because I liked the look. It's light, but feels very sturdy. Definitely wouldn't want to catch it upside my head. I got one without the strap. I'm going to have to check out the crab apple trees I have in the yard for my first homemade project. What's the best time of year to harvest it?

HiWayMan
January 27, 2011, 02:49 PM
What's the best time of year to harvest it?

Typically winter or very early spring, when the sap isn't flowing.

I do believe I'll take a stick hunting trip this weekend.

Tom609
January 27, 2011, 07:06 PM
Sounds good, thanks. I'll have to wait for a lot of new snow to melt here first.

Hanshi
January 27, 2011, 07:21 PM
I carry/use a oak cane all the time. I need it plus I've trained wit it. Marvelous weapon.

Nematocyst
January 27, 2011, 08:27 PM
K96771, that's a nice link. I hadn't found that one before.

Their site is not easy to navigate - took me a while to locate the section that yours is in -
but they've got some interesting products, including a nice looking blackthorn (http://www.walkingcanes.com/mens-walking-canes/walking-sticks/irish-blackthorn-walking-stick.html).

I also found these useful wood hardness scale tables, so called Janka hardness scale.

One (http://tinytimbers.com/janka.htm): lists by decreasing hardness.
Two (http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm): lists by wood in alphabetic order

Tom609
January 28, 2011, 12:52 PM
Nematocyst, Yes that site is hard to navigate. I couldn't find the page with the actual item I purchased. On the other hand, they're good business people. The owner got back to me by phone shortly after I placed my order and arranged for the cane to be shipped directly from the wholesaler that happened to be close to my home. I ordered it on a Monday and had it Wednesday.

I like your first link, but had trouble opening the second one.

hmphargh
January 28, 2011, 01:08 PM
This may be somewhat off topic, but yesterday at Detroit Wayne County Airport(DTW), I witnessed a young looking(30s, maybe early 40s) male have an acrylic cane confiscated while passing through security. I did not overhear the conversation, but he was questioned about it by a TSA agent and allowed to proceed to the airplane without his cane.

The agent then stood around using the cane to point and direct passengers which line they needed to go through. I thought it to be in bad taste to confiscate a passenger's private property and then use it instead of setting it aside for destruction or resale, but that is beside the point.

Has anyone else witnessed canes being taken away from airline passengers by the TSA? If so, which airport(s)?

Nematocyst
January 28, 2011, 02:24 PM
I like your first link, but had trouble opening the second one.Repaired now. My bad: an extraneous character slipped into the URL when I posted it.

Carl Levitian
January 28, 2011, 05:41 PM
"This may be somewhat off topic, but yesterday at Detroit Wayne County Airport(DTW), I witnessed a young looking(30s, maybe early 40s) male have an acrylic cane confiscated while passing through security. I did not overhear the conversation, but he was questioned about it by a TSA agent and allowed to proceed to the airplane without his cane.

The agent then stood around using the cane to point and direct passengers which line they needed to go through. I thought it to be in bad taste to confiscate a passenger's private property and then use it instead of setting it aside for destruction or resale, but that is beside the point.

Has anyone else witnessed canes being taken away from airline passengers by the TSA? If so, which airport(s)?"


This sounds sooo wrong on a couple of different levels. The young man did not know his rights, and under some conditions, the TSA person would be sued and/or loose his job. Under the Americans With Disabilties Act, they cannot ask for any proof of or pry into your disability. Too bad the the young man let himself be intimidated in loss of his totally legal property! He needed to sue the jerk. From what it sounds like, the cane was confiscated just for the TSA goons use.

Carl.

Nematocyst
January 28, 2011, 06:42 PM
^ Oh, that's very interesting. So under ADA, they can't even ask you for proof? That I did not know.

blackspyder
January 28, 2011, 07:20 PM
Too young and fit to have someone believe I need a cane.

glistam
January 28, 2011, 08:21 PM
^ Oh, that's very interesting. So under ADA, they can't even ask you for proof? That I did not know.

That's right, though it's actually the Medical Privacy Act that prevents anyone from prying into your disability. The cause of your disability is considered protected health information and not even law enforcement are above that; it takes a very strong court order to reveal that. The ADA just entitles you to have the cane no matter what anyone says because it is an assistive device, just like a wheelchair, a leg brace or a seeing-eye dog. Courts are certain not kind to people (especially LEOs and pseudo-LEOs) that violate either of these.

Now if the guy with the cane was a complete tool who when questioned said "This? Oh I don't need it, I just like it for bashing terrorist heads," he would have lost this protection because he just confessed to not only it not being a medical device, but intent to use as a weapon.

I must confess, something about this anecdote with the TSA smells rotten. He used the guy's cane like he was sorting hogs at the county fair? I find this hard to believe due to it's shear absurdity.

Nematocyst
January 28, 2011, 08:52 PM
^ Good points.

Carl Levitian
January 28, 2011, 11:48 PM
"Too young and fit to have someone believe I need a cane. "

No, you're not too young.

Play sports? Who's to say that football game last weekend didn't mess up you knee, or that hike on a rocky trail didn't stress something? My youngest son is in his 20's, and loves rugby. He tore the menicus in his knee and was on a cane for weeks after the arthoscopic surgery on his right knee, yet to an untrained person is the picture of a young 6 foot strapping guy. I was medically discharged from the army due to injuries to my right ankle and foot from a construction accident in the engineers. From age 30 onward I needed a cane. All kinds of things happen to young guys, and it's no business to anyone why you are carrying something that there is no law against. We can't let power hungrey idiots dictate to us the law according to them. Last I heard, this was still a semi free country with a constitution, and this goes way past where the TSA goon squad is able to go, by law.

A few years ago, I was in the check out line at Walmart, when a country sherriffs deputy came over and wanted to know why I was carrying a club. The club was one of my Irish blackthorns. I told him I had a problem and needed a cane. He then told me my blackthorn walking stick was not a cane. I fear I was a blunt with him, and I demanded he call his shift sargent. By the time it was sorted out, his sargent had him apologize to me. The sargent was very aware of the ADA.

If we let them start making it up as they go, we're done for!

Carl.

Nematocyst
January 28, 2011, 11:53 PM
If we let them start making it up as they go, we're done for! Yup.

Deltaboy
January 29, 2011, 09:44 PM
Carl your right. I am only 45 years old but I played Extra Hard and Fast the first 25 years of my life and now midway through my 4th decade I am paying for it some days. I carry lots of things and a cane is one of them due to a funky right ankle that is double jointed and that I have messed up 3 times since I was in HS and the last time I messed it up real good. It works fine for weeks at a time but I can get up from a chair it can pop sideways and I am bummed up for 2-3 days.

CollinLeon
January 31, 2011, 07:40 AM
Thanks to various sports injuries (football mainly) in my misspent youth, motorcycle wrecks, etc, my knees have not lasted as long as the rest of me. I guess I have good days and bad days, but it seems like it's more bad days than good days lately... I grew up on a ranch and it was common to have a hickory cane for working cattle in the corrals back then... These days, the "hot shot" electric prods are a bit more common, I suspect... Having had a motorcycle wreck which caused a compound fracture in one of my legs, its subsequent separation from the rest of my body, and then its reattachment by the doctors at the VA, I used that hickory cane a lot after my time (2 years) on crutches. One day, we were working some cattle and one of them managed to break that cane. I had had them break my crutches before also. My solution to the broken cane though was to take a brand new hickory maul handle, round it a bit, and give it a very slight taper so that I could put the rubber tips that you see for chair legs on it. I used the darkest stain that I could find, but with hickory, that just gave me a golden brown color. I then epoxied a solid brass eagle head for the handle of it and put few coats of tung oil on it. It's been 30+ years, but I still have that cane. It survived many cows trying to take me out. On good days, I only need it for climbing stairs. The TSA doesn't allow me to carry a small pocket knife on a plane, but I can carry a big honkin' hickory club... Works for me, I guess... For other places, I carry a .45...

Nematocyst
February 1, 2011, 10:46 AM
OK, another question about materials for canes.

Keep in mind that at least for now, I want this a (one or more) cane as much (if not more) for martial arts/sd as for walking assistance. (But someday, I may need one more for the latter.)

I'm still trying to sort out which are the optimal materials for this beast. I've asked above about various woods (and it seems that ash and crabapple get the highest marks, with hickory running high as well).

But how does carbon fiber stack up against wood? Ads claim that they're lightweight but "strong", and indeed, they indicate on the ads that they will be adequate for support for people up to 300 lb.

They're also quite attractive. I found this 'burl green' one (http://houseofcanes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=56&products_id=494) that is striking, even though I'm not sure how I would like that derby handle for either walking or defense (never used one), but they don't come fashioned as a "knob stick", which is what I think I prefer.

So, again, how does carbon fiber stack up against wood like ash?

In particular, could a hard strike break one - as in sheering in cross section - more easily than the other?

And where does metal fit into the scale? I presume most metal canes are some kind of alloy, but I haven't really looked at them yet.

BRad704
February 1, 2011, 11:56 AM
Someone say metal cane?

https://artistryintitanium.com/-Nuke__Titanium_Cane.php

Nematocyst
February 1, 2011, 12:31 PM
^ For a mere $2,250.00.

I'll take two.

Deltaboy
February 1, 2011, 12:43 PM
I like hickory, red oak or ash. Ag store or Supply store standard Stock Canes are tough as nails and if you break one hitting someone with it they are not going to get up very soon. I have seen one cane made from 3/4 rebar now that is a solid cane.

Nematocyst
February 1, 2011, 05:27 PM
But how does carbon fiber stack up against wood? Here's one opinion on carbon fiber from a friend who is not participating in this thread.


Carbon fiber isn't used in any fighting sticks so that right there should provide the answer,
but in particular carbon fiber lacks needed mass for impact defensive tools
and CF rods snap when nicked and side loaded.

pappy19
February 2, 2011, 12:33 PM
What about canes with concealed knives in the handle, anyone have one of those?

Nematocyst
February 2, 2011, 01:16 PM
Sword canes: very illegal (at least in most states, if not all), bad idea.

We don't discuss them here except to say, very illegal, bad idea.
___________

ABE (added by edit): After writing that, I had second thoughts about what I wrote.

So I searched. Found this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=475840) (most recent of several here) about sword canes.

Check out Hso's post #5.

And while you're there, check out JShirley's post #12 about making a cane from a phenolic rod.

BRad704
February 2, 2011, 03:09 PM
I went for a chiropractic consult this morning and it appears that I have a pinched nerve in my L3 that causing me some pretty severe pain in my back, Rt hip and Rt knee... Hopefully I can get it all corrected and carry a cane out of preference, instead of need...

Deltaboy
February 2, 2011, 05:44 PM
Prayers for you !

CollinLeon
February 2, 2011, 06:44 PM
If you are considering building your own cane and you are wanting it for defensive purposes also, you need to consider the weight of the material, not just the strength of it. If it is too light, and you are hitting someone with it, you are not imparting that much energy into them. If it is too heavy (e.g. solid steel bar), you are not able to move it quick enough and they are more likely to be able to dodge it.

Also, with some materials, you might find that they have great strength in compression, but not that great in shear. It doesn't do you much good if you hit someone with your cane and it breaks in half.

I figure that since maul handles were made from hickory that they would be strong enough for any type of hitting that I might need to do with my cane. And with a cost of about $10, it's fairly cheap to boot. The only thing that I would change if I had a chance would be to have a hole drilled all the way though it and a metal rod inserted lengthwise in it with the ends threaded so that the brass head of the cane could be attached more securely than is currently possible with just the neck being epoxied onto the shaft of the cane. Drilling a 36" hole perfectly in the center of a wooden shaft is not something that I am equipped to do though, so I just re-epoxy it every 15-20 years when it feels like it is starting to get loose. I've never had the head come off, but I have felt a very slight wobble in it when tells me that it's time break out the epoxy and tighten it up a bit.

Plus, there's something about the look of a stained wooden cane that you will not find in the resin or metal canes.

Canes are also great tools for extending your reach for items on the top shelves at stores. Preferably things that do not break if you miss catching it when it drops towards you though. I find it especially useful when at Wal-Mart and needing to reach the 2-liter soft drinks that are stacked so tight that they won't slide forward.

CollinLeon
February 2, 2011, 06:49 PM
I went for a chiropractic consult this morning and it appears that I have a pinched nerve in my L3 that causing me some pretty severe pain in my back, Rt hip and Rt knee... Hopefully I can get it all corrected and carry a cane out of preference, instead of need...


And if you had gone to a psychiatrist, he would have said that it was a mental problem. It seems that each "specialist" diagnoses symptoms as conditions that they are able to treat (i.e. make money at). I'm not saying that your doctor is not right, I'm just saying that I take anything they say with a grain of salt.

Tom609
February 2, 2011, 06:57 PM
Collin; what if you used a shorter length of threaded rod that only required a 3" or 4" hole drilled which would still provide a solid and permanent base for the brass head. You might have problems at airports and such with a full length rod inserted.

Deltaboy
February 2, 2011, 07:26 PM
I have a maul handle that I might redo into a cane.

Ole Coot
February 2, 2011, 07:44 PM
Canes and walking sticks are the most underestimated weapon available to everyone and can be carried anywhere provided no rebar, knives or other weapons hidden. I like a straight hickory grain or a "stock cane" available anywhere. In my opinion only the best close quarter legal weapon available to anyone.

CollinLeon
February 2, 2011, 08:27 PM
what if you used a shorter length of threaded rod that only required a 3" or 4" hole drilled which would still provide a solid and permanent base for the brass head. You might have problems at airports and such with a full length rod inserted.


I do not think that it would provide as much strength as one that went the entire length which would allow you to put the entire length of the shaft of the cane in tension. You could then have a brass end piece that accepted the rubber tip, but on the inside of the end piece, you could have a nut (or it could have female threads) so that you physically had a connection between the head and tip of the cane that did not rely on a glue.

If you could combine this with piece of 1/8" wall thickness brass tubing of about 4" long attached to the brass head for the cane so that the rod ran inside of this and was welded into the center of the cane head, you would end up with a very secure head on the cane.

Nematocyst
February 2, 2011, 08:32 PM
Blackthorn needs no brass.
___________

Added by edit. I wrote that too close to bed time, and didn't read the previous post carefully, missing the point.

Interesting idea. I want to think about that more ... trying to visualize it.

Carl Levitian
February 3, 2011, 12:50 PM
I do love how the numbers of people carrying a cane is creeping up on the survey!

Carl.

Tom609
February 3, 2011, 04:43 PM
I thought I'd mention that in my years on THR, I rarely visited Non-Firearm Weapons until recently. I ran into a rather wacky guy not long ago while walking my dog late at night and it made me think that I needed to carry something, and being in NJ, a cane made sense. Well, here we are about a month later and I not only now have three canes, but also two more flashlights and another pocket knife. Oh, and I'm making lanyards for everything!

Somebody stop me :)

CollinLeon
February 3, 2011, 04:51 PM
and being in NJ, a cane made sense

If I was in NJ, I would still carry a .45... I don't visit the NYC / NJ area often, but when I do, I carry... I looked at the 2nd Amendment awhile back, just to make sure and there was nothing in it that stated that you had to surrender it upon crossing the NJ state line...

CollinLeon
February 3, 2011, 09:21 PM
Interesting idea. I want to think about that more ... trying to visualize it.


Something like this:

http://www.spambob.net/collinleon/cane-design.jpg

http://www.spambob.net/collinleon/cane-design.jpg

Just a quick and dirty drawing that I whipped up in Visio to give you an idea of what I'm talking about...

Nematocyst
February 3, 2011, 09:44 PM
Yeah, that helps.

And it makes sense.

Deltaboy
February 4, 2011, 01:34 AM
You got a good idea there!

DeTerminator
February 4, 2011, 07:52 AM
I like reading the posts on canes.

I'm a mere almost 53 years old, but have severe artritis in my hips and lower back. Unfortunately, a cane or two doesn't give me the stability that I want when I walk, so I use a walker. That doesn't mean that I don't use a cane, though.

A cane is very helpful for retrieving objects that roll under the table or are too far away for me to walk to.

I started using a cane two years ago part time, then more and more as time went on. I fell a few times, and graduated to a walker, which I highly recommend to those that need a safer way to get around. You can still hook a cane to the walker just in case.

I think everyone should have a cane...they are that handy. It is like a third arm for me.
It doesn't take long for people to get used to seeing you with a cane...and you to not care what they think.

My blackthorn is a serious walloping rod...very heavy duty, like a galvanized pipe. I have a canemaster, without the sharpened crook, and a Nasco elephant cane. I really like all my canes, but my Nasco could be another inch or so longer. Very nice, especially if sanded down smooth and finished with tung oil or whatever. The crook is easily opened up by getting a pot of water boiling, and putting the crook in the water as it boils. Mine took 10 minutes to open up on it's own with no further help from me. Very heavy duty. No sawing it down necessary.

Appreciate your cane!

Kerry

Deltaboy
February 4, 2011, 09:19 AM
I have a custom made Brass headed cane, a feed store stock cane, a cold steel Blackthorn cane, a brass headed swagger stick styled cane , and a junk store cane that I am working on refinishing.

glistam
February 4, 2011, 06:04 PM
When I saw this cane, I was not sure if I should laugh, or buy one.

http://budk.com/Self-Defense/ZAP-Cane-With-Flashlight

Deltaboy
February 4, 2011, 06:19 PM
When I saw this cane, I was not sure if I should laugh, or buy one.

http://budk.com/Self-Defense/ZAP-Cane-With-Flashlight
Oh my goodness a money pit !

hso
February 4, 2011, 08:13 PM
Laugh.

Steaming POS!

Nematocyst
February 7, 2011, 07:17 PM
I'm trying to find a source of a 38" (37" minimum) blackthorn or ash knob stick.

I'm not so tall (6'), but I know what I want in a walking stick, and 36" doesn't work for me.
(I've tried adjusting my carbon fiber mountaineering trekking pole to 36" multiple times. Just doesn't feel right.)

I've found one 37" blackthorn (http://www.elderluxe.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=750), but part of that 37" is a metal spike (great for the snow/ice up here, and could do some serious damage in SD).

But I can't find anything longer in blackthorn.

I also found these 38" ash knob sticks (http://www.elderluxe.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=951) that look beautiful, but I'm not fond of the 'crook' in the handle - I want a straight one - and the company can't guarantee a straight one. (I suspect most are bent this way, which concerns me because the 38" may be 'linear' along the crook, and not really be 38" tall.)

I may buy one anyway. It looks so nice and suspect it's a fine product.

Any one got a source of 'big and tall'?

Thanks.

Corbin
February 8, 2011, 02:40 AM
I carry a cane most of the time, but not always. Got mine from Cane Masters years ago. Looks similar to this, only in red oak:

http://www.canemasters.com/images/midnite%20CST%20crook.jpg

I've never had an issue going into court houses or airports, though they sometimes X-ray it. Granted, I've got a 14" scar on my left leg from a compound tibula, fibula fracture and another on my left front hip from breaking that.

BRad704
February 8, 2011, 11:27 AM
Since I mentioned it previously in this thread... I'll update myself...

I have been seeing a chiropractor for a week now and although the pain is still there, I am getting some range-of-motion back in my lower back. According to the Dr, after next week, we will be done "loosening" everything and can start a muscle rehab to get my body used to holding itself straight again... after that, I should be good to go. :D

Deltaboy
February 9, 2011, 10:14 AM
Praise the Lord Brother now take care and keep carrying your cane!

Carl Levitian
February 9, 2011, 10:54 AM
"Since I mentioned it previously in this thread... I'll update myself...

I have been seeing a chiropractor for a week now and although the pain is still there, I am getting some range-of-motion back in my lower back. According to the Dr, after next week, we will be done "loosening" everything and can start a muscle rehab to get my body used to holding itself straight again... after that, I should be good to go."


That's great Man! Keep up the good work, and I know from personal experience that PT is hard work.

Of course, by now, all your friends and family have got used to the sight of you carrying a cane. :) One can only wonder if they would take much note if you just kept on carrying it.

Carl.

chuckfw
February 9, 2011, 11:33 AM
Never have carried one with SD in mind. May do it sometime in the future.

Nematocyst
February 12, 2011, 01:30 PM
Brad, congrats! That's great news.

Ever checked out osteopathy? I highly recommend it. I'm usually very, very skeptical of alternative medicines (I have grad degrees in biology and have taught anatomy and physiology; hard core science type, no fringes), but have found osteopaths to be miracle workers (at least the one that I saw). Just a thought.

Send us more good news as you know it.

Nematocyst
February 12, 2011, 01:44 PM
As I've mentioned above, I've become a big fan of Irish stick fighting, especially Glen Doyle's style (http://www.fightingfaction.com/). (He's in Toronto, and I can't get there to take lessons, but hope to go to one of his weekend seminars sometime.)

I'm considering starting a thread about that specifically, to compare with other styles of stick fighting/SD (like FMA, etc).

So, last night, an acquaintance on another forum showed me this video about Russian stick fighting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT44cXI18b4). Sibirsky Vium by an instructor Dimitriy Skogorev. He looks like he really knows his stuff; his moves are fluid and second-nature.

Pretty interesting stuff. Not canes by any stretch - those guys use big sticks :eek: -
but a lot of the same techniques could be applied to canes, I think.

There are a lot of techniques crammed into a short time with fast scene changes,
so it's hard to follow them. I wish one could run youtube in slow motion. :banghead:

Speaking of sticks, I ordered a 39" ash knob stick this week. Have already seen it in pictures
- yes, the very one ; proprietor sent pics - and it's beautiful. :cool:

Will keep you posted.

CollinLeon
February 12, 2011, 02:36 PM
"The Cane as a Weapon" -- A.C. Cunningham, Civil Engineer, US Navy, 1912

http://ad1542.tripod.com/cunningham.pdf

And here's a magazine article from 1901 by Edward William Barton-Wright...

http://www.elite-fighters.com/library/rarebooks/fighting_cane/cane_fighting1.htm

Nematocyst
February 12, 2011, 03:05 PM
^ Neat stuff. Thanks.

I love the illustrations in the magazine article.

Tallyman
February 14, 2011, 12:21 AM
I only have two knees and I think I will be needing surgery on both of them. how is that third knee working out?

Nematocyst
February 15, 2011, 07:39 PM
Speaking of sticks, I ordered a 39" ash knob stick this week.It arrived.

It exceeded my expectations.

Here are a couple of pics.

Deltaboy
February 15, 2011, 09:45 PM
It arrived.

It exceeded my expectations.

Here are a couple of pics.
Very nice now I want One!

Tom609
February 15, 2011, 09:50 PM
Very nice! One more for my needs list :)

Deltaboy
February 22, 2011, 10:43 PM
I won some old canes off the Bay and will post a pic as soon as they get here.

CollinLeon
February 23, 2011, 06:21 AM
I had a problem with a cane head not wanting to stay tight on the cane shaft at one time and did not have the materials to fix it right. What I was able to do was to slightly taper the end of the shaft and screw it onto a iron 3/4-1/2-1/2 T-fitting from a plumbing supply store. Surprisingly, it was very sturdy and fairly comfortable. Not as useful as having the hook that the previous head provided, but not that bad, considering the fact that it was just something to hold me over until I could property reinstall the brass head.

I've considered welding a short piece of 1" iron pipe to the T-fitting and then screwing it onto the shaft of the cane. The inside diameter of the 1" iron pipe is just slightly smaller than the upper part of the shaft of the cane, so it would be a pretty tight fit, even without any glue. With just the T-fitting on it though, the balance was pretty good... I suspect adding a 4" section of pipe to the top of it would affect the balance adversely for anything other than just using it for walking.

Deltaboy
February 23, 2011, 07:22 PM
You would turn the cane into a war hammer.

CollinLeon
February 23, 2011, 08:07 PM
You would turn the cane into a war hammer.
I had considered making a cane handle from the head of a brick hammer...

http://http.cdnlayer.com/ec1images/225/products/9/998007582.jpg

It has a pretty good shape for a cane handle and with just a bit of grinding on the sharp point to round off the corners a bit, it would look a bit more like the head of a cane and not an actual hammer... To do it right though, you would need to weld the head to a piece of 1" or so steel pipe that would have a slot cut in it so that it wrapped up the sides of the brick hammer's head.

Of course, what would really be nice would be to design a piece of 3/4" steel pipe for the handle with a firing mechanism so that you could put a 12-gauge cartridge in it... 12-gauge pepper spray shell, if you were wanting to ensure that you didn't have to pay the ATF whatever fee they would want for such a thing... I've read the ATF regulations and I'm not sure whether such a device would require a $200 tax stamp or a $5 tax stamp if you designed it for normal shotgun shells.

Of course, I consider these ATF "regulations" to be completely unconstitutional since they by their very nature infringe upon our rights to bear arms. Then again, by its very definition, the ATF itself is a violation of our 2nd Amendment rights...

knifestuff
February 24, 2011, 09:38 PM
for Nematocyst:

Quote "It arrived.
It exceeded my expectations.
Here are a couple of pics."
What was the source for the ash knob stick? It looks great.

Nematocyst
February 24, 2011, 09:46 PM
Knife. PM coming.

Nematocyst
February 24, 2011, 09:48 PM
CL, that's a serious
looking cane handle.

CollinLeon
February 24, 2011, 09:59 PM
CL, that's a serious
looking cane handle.
Which one? The design that I drew on a previous page or the brick hammer?

Nematocyst
February 24, 2011, 10:36 PM
Brick hammer.

CollinLeon
February 24, 2011, 10:40 PM
Brick hammer.
Yeah, I think with a bit of grinding and welding, one could create a usable cane handle with that... It's got just about the right size for a cane handle... Maybe shorten the flat portion a bit and round it some... Functional, but still practical as an actual cane...

Deltaboy
February 24, 2011, 10:56 PM
It is a great idea I will be getting a Brick hammer and making a cane. :D

CollinLeon
February 24, 2011, 10:58 PM
It is a great idea I will be getting a Brick hammer and making a cane. :D
Post a photo of what you end up with in this thread once you finish...

Deltaboy
February 24, 2011, 11:00 PM
Post a photo of what you end up with in this thread once you finish...
I will do that.

Olde School
February 25, 2011, 05:56 PM
The video "Martial Cane Concepts" by Michael D. Janich is an excellent starting point for anyone interested in using a cane for self defense. It has some very simple, easy to apply techniques that can be learned quickly and work.

Nematocyst
February 25, 2011, 07:01 PM
Thanks, Olde School.

I found this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34S4A79jrjo&feature=related) of Mr. Janich giving some basics.
Unfortunately, the sound track lags the video by about two seconds,
so it's a challenge to watch it. Still, informative.

The Dan in Black
March 2, 2011, 02:34 PM
I'm 29 and I've walked with a cane daily for 4 years or so now. I occasionally get questions but they are mostly of the " Do you need any help" variety.

Hey CollinLeon, have you seen the canes over at Mendowood.com? They are pretty much exactly what you posted. Very nice stuff.

Currently I'm using a CS Walkabout that I refinished. I have about 10 canes that I rotate through.

- D

Nematocyst
March 2, 2011, 10:58 PM
over at Mendowood.comSa-weet!

Those are some serious sticks (http://yhst-1129393017033.stores.yahoo.net/).

Thanks for the link.
___________

Added by edit: After looking at those pages, I am seriously impressed.

This is ... intriguing: "The shafts are made of 1/2" diameter steel pipe coated with epoxy and have a wood core.
The shape is uneven simulating a "natural" stick. The finish of the stick is smooth and polished.
The finished shafts are roughly 3/4" in diameter."

The Dan in Black
March 3, 2011, 09:29 AM
They are sweet.

I don't own one but I've wanted one since about 2002. I had a friend that had one. He had one of the heavier models and it was about 2lbs.

The walnut manhattan is talking to me. I may have to pick it up, it'll match the grips on my S&W.

- D

2WheelsGood
March 3, 2011, 10:12 AM
I occasionally get questions but they are mostly of the " Do you need any help" variety.That makes me wonder if walking with a cane doesn't actually make you a tastier target for some thugs. Thugs tend to prey on what they think are easy targets.

Deltaboy
March 3, 2011, 10:15 PM
If you learn how to use your cane they won't make the mistake twice!

Nematocyst
March 3, 2011, 10:45 PM
That makes me wonder if walking with a cane doesn't actually make you a tastier target for some thugs.
Thugs tend to prey on what they think are easy targets.This is why I walk quickly, like an athlete, with authority and focus, paying attention to what's around me, mostly carrying my walking stick (not a cane) horizontally in my hand (which the local police have seen me do repeatedly), only putting tip to ground occasionally, when I need it to cross a patch of ice or snow. (We've got 3' of snow on the ground here; have had at least that for months. Ice? It's going to -15F tonight.)

If you learn how to use your cane they won't make the mistake twice!I'm studying Glen Doyle's videos (http://fightingfaction.com/), with an intention to actually go study with him.

CollinLeon
March 5, 2011, 02:58 AM
hahaha.. that's right. Especially when you need to hit someone for teasing you about carrying it.

---
eBooks and Guides you need / http://fleetdigital.com

http://www.spambob.net/collinleon/cane-600.jpg (http://www.spambob.net/collinleon/cane.jpg)

Deltaboy
March 5, 2011, 10:23 AM
http://www.spambob.net/collinleon/cane-600.jpg (http://www.spambob.net/collinleon/cane.jpg)
Add two 1 inch threaded nipples into that T fitting and cap them and you will have a hammer head cane!

CollinLeon
March 5, 2011, 08:50 PM
Add two 1 inch threaded nipples into that T fitting and cap them and you will have a hammer head cane!
One could argue that it's a pretty good hammer head cane even without the nipples and caps... I was thinking of either than or some of the cast plugs that screw into the 1/2" NPT portion of the T-fitting on the top. They are the type that have a small square protrusion that allows you to turn it with a normal wrench. They would not stick out as much as nipples and end cap fittings.

Deltaboy
March 6, 2011, 03:40 PM
One could argue that it's a pretty good hammer head cane even without the nipples and caps... I was thinking of either than or some of the cast plugs that screw into the 1/2" NPT portion of the T-fitting on the top. They are the type that have a small square protrusion that allows you to turn it with a normal wrench. They would not stick out as much as nipples and end cap fittings.
That would work great too!

Hanshi
March 6, 2011, 06:02 PM
I have to use a cane when out in public because of risk the of falling - due to an auto-immune disease. Being a martial artist (retired) I taught the cane as one of our weapons. The one I use is a fine, oak animal handling (pig cane) cane with a particular "cut" at the curved end. It gets me on planes at the head of the line, gets me called "sugar" by the cute store clerks and makes me look harmless, he, he, he, he.

Deltaboy
March 6, 2011, 06:49 PM
A standard Oak Stock cane is my daily carry cane!

CollinLeon
March 6, 2011, 08:10 PM
A standard Oak Stock cane is my daily carry cane!
Well, since you're also in Texas, you'll understand that canes are just like BBQ... You've got 3 choices of wood if you want to do it right -- oak, hickory, and mesquite... :)

For some reason, pine never really became popular for BBQ... Probably wouldn't make a very good cane either...

CollinLeon
March 6, 2011, 08:16 PM
I have to use a cane when out in public because of risk the of falling - due to an auto-immune disease. Being a martial artist (retired) I taught the cane as one of our weapons. The one I use is a fine, oak animal handling (pig cane) cane with a particular "cut" at the curved end. It gets me on planes at the head of the line, gets me called "sugar" by the cute store clerks and makes me look harmless, he, he, he, he.
One of the things that I noticed while working in New Orleans on a Navy project back before Katrina was that all the female store clerks call you "honey", "sugar", and such... In fact, I got called "honey" more in one week than I have ever been called it by my S.O. (and she and I have been together for 20+ years). You buy something at a grocery store and the clerk says, "Thank you honey", or "Come again sugar"... It didn't matter if the clerk was black or white, it still happened... I'm just a bald head wrinkled old fart, so it's not like there was anything else going on there... Just a different culture...

Deltaboy
March 6, 2011, 10:11 PM
One of the things that I noticed while working in New Orleans on a Navy project back before Katrina was that all the female store clerks call you "honey", "sugar", and such... In fact, I got called "honey" more in one week than I have ever been called it by my S.O. (and she and I have been together for 20+ years). You buy something at a grocery store and the clerk says, "Thank you honey", or "Come again sugar"... It didn't matter if the clerk was black or white, it still happened... I'm just a bald head wrinkled old fart, so it's not like there was anything else going on there... Just a different culture...
Yep Collin All over Eastern Arkansas and Deep South going back to GA and Northern FLA Ladies have called me Honey,Sugar and Long tall drink of water. It is a regional cultural thing. Spring Break is almost here along with payday, I going to hit the pawn shop and see if I can score a Brick hammer head cheap and get my War Hammer cane done.

CollinLeon
March 7, 2011, 03:35 AM
Yep Collin All over Eastern Arkansas and Deep South going back to GA and Northern FLA Ladies have called me Honey,Sugar and Long tall drink of water. It is a regional cultural thing. Spring Break is almost here along with payday, I going to hit the pawn shop and see if I can score a Brick hammer head cheap and get my War Hammer cane done.
I don't see that here in Texas much though... And if you said that to a woman around here, they would bite your head off and claim sexual harassment...

glistam
March 7, 2011, 10:41 PM
Just finished shaping two new American Hornbeam (http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/carpinus/caroliniana.htm) sticks that have been drying in my cellar since summer. One is a modified Derby handle and the other is an English half-crook (using a steam-box to achieve) with a small knob. I was going for a more rustic look...that and this has to be one of the most stubborn woods I've ever worked with. Now I know why nobody sells these commercially. But one will be my new travel weapon of choice when they're done.

I'm going to stain and seal them when the weather clears up.

Nematocyst
March 7, 2011, 10:56 PM
I just started a new thread
about stick fighting over here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7150221#post7150221).

Ya'll come. ;)

shiftyer1
March 8, 2011, 02:25 AM
collinleon, how did you attach that t to the cane? Is it threaded together, how did you start the thread on the wood? I really like that and if you buy the caps you could keep a few things inside like matches or some tinder or whatever you decided to stuff in there.

Now since there seems to be some people that know these things in this thread I have a question. How do you decide on the length of a cane, or is it just a matter of personal preference?

CollinLeon
March 8, 2011, 02:34 AM
collinleon, how did you attach that t to the cane? Is it threaded together, how did you start the thread on the wood? I really like that and if you buy the caps you could keep a few things inside like matches or some tinder or whatever you decided to stuff in there.

Now since there seems to be some people that know these things in this thread I have a question. How do you decide on the length of a cane, or is it just a matter of personal preference?
Length is going to depend upon your height if you primarily need it for walking. You want to be able to keep your arm straight and not bent. If the cane is a bit long, you can tilt it at an angle to make up the difference, but that won't work if it is too long.

For my current cane, I started with a hickory maul handle that was 36" long and then smoothed it down so that it was basically round (instead of basically oval as it came from the manufacturer) and gave it just enough of a gradual taper so that I could put a rubber tip on the end.

In my case, I just screwed the T-fitting onto the shaft of the cane. Since NPT threads are tapered, I had to taper that end of the cane too. The threads are a bit too fine and not deep enough in my opinion for use in wood, even though I have not had it come loose yet. A very course deep thread would be better, so if you happen to know a machinist that could recut them for you, that would be great. As it is, I have a feeling if you started beating on someone with the head of the cane, it would eventually loosen... Probably not until after you had caved his skull end though... Ultimately, I want to get a piece of 1" steel pipe about 3-4 inches long and weld it to the bottom of the T-fitting. The 1" steel pipe would have a bit smaller inside diameter than the shaft of my cane, so it would need to be hammered down on it which should keep it fairly well attached.

shiftyer1
March 8, 2011, 02:42 AM
With it already being threaded on the stick maybe it would be cheaper to drill a hole and pin it just to make it a little more secure? Although if I just caved in somebodies skull with it i'd probably want a new stick :) So it wouldn't matter if it loosened.

CollinLeon
March 8, 2011, 03:00 AM
With it already being threaded on the stick maybe it would be cheaper to drill a hole and pin it just to make it a little more secure? Although if I just caved in somebodies skull with it i'd probably want a new stick :) So it wouldn't matter if it loosened.
I had thought about something like that at one time... I was going to drill a few holes just slightly smaller than an 1/8th of an inch and then hammer a piece of brass brazing rod through each hole. I would leave enough sticking out both sides that I could hammer the ends down and basically make a long rivet out of it. I was going to do this on the piece of pipe that I was wanting to weld to the T-fitting.

Hanshi
March 8, 2011, 04:26 PM
You are 100% keerect! I've had ladies from Kentucky (back when I was young) use honey/sugar as a regular matter of fact. The South is still unique; besieged but unique.

Deltaboy
March 8, 2011, 11:34 PM
We will soon have some war hammers canes to show off. I just got to wait till payday! Cheerleading is breaking the bank at my house.

Deltaboy
March 8, 2011, 11:36 PM
I had thought about something like that at one time... I was going to drill a few holes just slightly smaller than an 1/8th of an inch and then hammer a piece of brass brazing rod through each hole. I would leave enough sticking out both sides that I could hammer the ends down and basically make a long rivet out of it. I was going to do this on the piece of pipe that I was wanting to weld to the T-fitting.
Use some expoxy and then pin it then it might Break off but not loosen up.

shiftyer1
March 9, 2011, 03:15 AM
deltaboy do you have a group photo of canes you've made?

Also what would be the legalities of carrying your war hammer cane? I understand theres a disability act and no laws about canes but I would think that would only carry you so far. I'm not saying don't make one, make 2 or 12, just curious if a cane head like that would get ya a free ride downtown.

BeerSleeper
March 9, 2011, 09:09 AM
I'm 32, fit, and I look like it. I'd like to take a cane if I fly an airline, but I can't help but think I will draw attention to myself if I did that.

CollinLeon
March 9, 2011, 09:36 AM
I used to just carry a pocket knife when I flew... These days, I carry a hickory club... errr... cane...

CollinLeon
March 9, 2011, 10:33 AM
deltaboy do you have a group photo of canes you've made?

Also what would be the legalities of carrying your war hammer cane? I understand theres a disability act and no laws about canes but I would think that would only carry you so far. I'm not saying don't make one, make 2 or 12, just curious if a cane head like that would get ya a free ride downtown.
It's going to depend upon how leftist the place you live might be, I suspect... Does your locale have rules concerning the carrying of axes or sledge hammers? We're talking about something a bit less menacing than that... Plus, even in draconian societies like that, it's going to depend upon how well you design your cane. With the right sort of engraving along the edges, it could make the head look less just a weapon:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31554G7ZEZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I think that with a bit of grinding, a brick hammer's head would work as a practical cane head while also doubling as an effective weapon in a pinch.

As someone who has carried a cane because of need for many years (due to one too many motorcycle wrecks), I have to say that they are very useful at times. If I need to redirect the air-conditioning vent on the passenger side of my pickup, I don't have to reach over there, all I have to do is grab the cane and readjust it with the tip of the cane. If I need to push the passenger side mirror out after it has been folded in for getting in a tight space, I just lower the window on that side of my truck via the electrical switch and then use the cane to push the mirror back to the normal position. If I'm trying to catch an elevator and the door is closing, I just swipe the cane through the door opening and interrupt the optical sensors and the door reopens -- yeah, you can do that with your hand also, but if it doesn't work, you'll probably lose your arm (plus, doing it with the cane is quicker). It's also good for reaching top shelf items in stores or items that are on the far back of the shelves.

Deltaboy
March 11, 2011, 09:50 PM
deltaboy do you have a group photo of canes you've made?

Also what would be the legalities of carrying your war hammer cane? I understand theres a disability act and no laws about canes but I would think that would only carry you so far. I'm not saying don't make one, make 2 or 12, just curious if a cane head like that would get ya a free ride downtown.
I plan on cutting the brick cracking edge back till it is about 3/8 to 1/4 inch thick and I am rounding the square hammer head. I also going to try and heat the cracking edge round it more. We will get some pics made when I get time to build it.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/mistiff014.jpg My gear shift 8 ball

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/canes002.jpg Old Brass plumbing cap

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/mikescanes001.jpg

Cold Steel Blackthorn My solid brass Hame headed cane and a standard Stock Cane from the feed store.

shiftyer1
March 13, 2011, 03:05 AM
Thats kinda ironic....I just picked up a stock cane in a feed store and it's the same one in your pic.

CollinLeon
March 13, 2011, 09:44 AM
I've had cattle break the standard feed store canes, so when I built my replacement cane, I make it out of a replacement handle for a maul / sledgehammer... They're made out of hickory and make for a lot of abuse. Close to the right length and reasonably priced... Just a bit of trimming to get the profile a bit more appropriate for a cane... Other than a couple of loose heads that I've had to re-epoxy or whatever over the last 20 years and numerous replacement rubber tips, it has survived a lot of abuse and still is in great shape. I recently did a quick refinish of it by wiping it down with acetone and a light sanding with a sanding sponge, followed by a couple of coats of tung oil. Still looks good, especially for a piece of wood that is over 25 years old.

CollinLeon
March 13, 2011, 12:11 PM
Now, if you are really into metal working, you could probably take a sledge hammer's head and grind / cut / melt-and-hammer it down to whatever shape cane head you might possibly desire as long as you left a good portion of the center portion for the original head as a support structure. The traditional slot with wedge design for attachment of the heads to the handles has worked well over the years for a tool that I'm sure gets more abuse than even a cane would when used as a defensive device. That would be a lot of grinding though... More than I would probably want to subject my poor little grinder to... :)

Deltaboy
March 13, 2011, 10:37 PM
Well I didn't find a Brick hammer head for the price point I wanted so I went with a old styled Fuller 16 oz hammer I spent most of Saturday trimming and shaping the Sledgehammer handle so the Hammer head would attach properly. I sanded and filed the hammer head to round off any courners then primed it and painted it Desert Camo Tan. I have 2 coats of Finishing oil on the well sanded sledge handle. I should finish it some times this week and have pics up soon.

CollinLeon
March 13, 2011, 11:49 PM
Well I didn't find a Brick hammer head for the price point I wanted so I went with a old styled Fuller 16 oz hammer I spent most of Saturday trimming and shaping the Sledgehammer handle so the Hammer head would attach properly. I sanded and filed the hammer head to round off any courners then primed it and painted it Desert Camo Tan. I have 2 coats of Finishing oil on the well sanded sledge handle. I should finish it some times this week and have pics up soon.
From what I've gathered, Fuller has made quite a few different types of hammers over the years... Are you talking about a claw, ball peen, cross peen, or what type of hammer? If a claw type hammer, are you closing the claw, welding it shut, and then grinding it so that it looks like a single piece? I suspect that would work in a pinch if you can't find a brick hammer... Personally, I don't think I would go with paint on it... I would take an angle grinder with a steel wire brush to it (or sandblast it) in order to get down to the bare metal and then put either a clear epoxy over it or just some tung oil.

I wonder if dipping it in molten tin might be an option...

If the cutting down of the sledgehammer handle ends up with too much cut off of it, another option might be to expand the hole in the hammer's head instead. If you heat the entire head up to the point where it is red hot (or hotter) and then drive a tapered steel rod through it, you can expand the head without losing any metal (as you would if you just filed a larger hole in it). That's the way that blacksmiths used to make holes in metal pieces.

Deltaboy
March 13, 2011, 11:56 PM
It is a Claw hammer and it fit my hand really well. I painted it because of the surface damage I could not remove. I have been using all hand tools no electric!

CollinLeon
March 14, 2011, 03:21 AM
Would sandblasting smooth out the damage? How about just heating it up with a oxy-fuel torch and letting the metal flow a bit?

Deltaboy
March 15, 2011, 11:29 AM
Didn't have axcess to those types of Items. So here she is my Hammer head cane with a full sized Hickory Sledgehammer handle.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/DSCN1597.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/DSCN1596.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/DSCN1595.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/DSCN1594.jpg

CollinLeon
March 15, 2011, 02:59 PM
Interesting... I think a hammer head with a claw that was not quite as curved would have made a more ergonomic cane handle though...

Something more like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/175x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_9171.jpg

instead of this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/175x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_6129.jpg

Deltaboy
March 15, 2011, 08:20 PM
It might I do all my canes by feel and that pre ww2 Fuller hammer head fit my hand quite well. I wrap my fingers around the head and the curved claw fills the palm of my hand.

Nematocyst
March 15, 2011, 10:15 PM
This has ... morphed into a much more interesting thread since I was here last.

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/175x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_6129.jpg

JohnnyOrygun
March 16, 2011, 02:00 AM
I do occasionally, two titanium/cobalt steel hips, bad knees, and a bad shoulder... I am 41...:what: I cant be 41, I only think I am 20... geesh. Anyhow, for 3 years I couldn't walk without two canes, I can now walk short distances w/o a cane, I plan on getting a nice wood cane, like the ones the people who show cattle use. I understand they are inexpensive and quite strong. I am a little unusual in that I suffer from an unusual medical condition, so all of my joints are wearing prematurely... so a cane would seem quite natural for me to carry... but I don't want to carry one all of the time, having had to use two for a long time... I am in no hurry to return to using one.

Deltaboy
March 17, 2011, 07:08 PM
Johnny google or go to a good Farm Store and get yourself a cane. I started making them just for kicks.

Nematocyst
March 17, 2011, 09:59 PM
Or, Johnny, consider a nice knob stick. Lighter than a cane, easy to carry -
I carry mine everywhere I go when I'm not on my bike. (I do not own a car.) Love it.

JohnnyOrygun
March 18, 2011, 04:54 PM
Delta thats what I was thinking of doing, we have the farmers coop in town and I can almost guarantee they have wooden canes. I will have to check it out. Nematocyst, I was thinking of "knob stick", I just am not sure about the cost and where to get one... I prefer to feel before I buy, any good recommendations?

Thanks all

Nematocyst
March 18, 2011, 10:40 PM
JohnnyO, can't help you with the "feel" part.
I ordered mine on line.

But I did get to "see" mine before I bought.
Shop owner sent me pics of the ones he had in stock.
He also sent me knob and length dimensions
so that I could calculate whether they were right for me.

It was easy for me since I knew the height and diameter
of my other stick, so I knew that the new one would be right.

PM me if you want to know where I got it from.

Grousefeather
March 18, 2011, 11:24 PM
I have two blackthorne sticks. One I am looking at replacing the tip with one of those stanless steel spike tips. I carry it flyfishing and squirrel hunting. Nice to keep from falling over a stone wall. :D

Nematocyst
March 18, 2011, 11:31 PM
Nice to keep from falling over a stone wall. I totally agree.

Today, while exploring a wood in Maine,
on the warmest day since early December,
I walked on one of those New England stone walls
between deep drifts. Had I fallen, I'd have fallen into snow.

But because I carried a stick, which stabilized me,
I walked the entire 30m distance on TOP of the wall.

Long live the walking stick, even if it's called a cane.

Deltaboy
March 19, 2011, 10:01 PM
Want a knob cane go to the farm store buy a Post maul handle and a 4 way wood rasp and a couple of 3M sanding blocks. Then pick up some tung oil use the rasp to round off the maul head and sand it till it fits your hand. Then wipe it down and start rubbing in the tung oil and let it dry. Put on about 5-8 coats (over 3-5 days)and you will have a knobheaded cane. Buy 1 1/8 Rubber feet to slip on the bottom to keep it from slipping.

Nematocyst
March 19, 2011, 10:09 PM
^ That's a great idea.

Only problem for me is, I want 39" or longer.

Post mall handles appear to be 36".

Grousefeather
March 19, 2011, 10:16 PM
Nematocyst, thats exactly what I mean. Typical New Eng terrain. Can't recall how many times I ended up "looking up", due to a misplaced step. Almost damaged one of my doubles once, but I kept it high and I took the hit. I find i take it with me on some mushroom hunts also. :D

Deltaboy
March 19, 2011, 10:51 PM
You need axcess to a 4 foot wood lathe then.

Tom Hudson
March 20, 2011, 07:32 PM
I carved mine a little. Gives me a little better grip.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL93/471113/23735369/395819175.jpg

Nematocyst
March 20, 2011, 07:50 PM
^ Beautiful!

CollinLeon
March 20, 2011, 08:00 PM
^ That's a great idea.

Only problem for me is, I want 39" or longer.

Post mall handles appear to be 36".
http://www.tennesseehickory.com/products.shtml

Various tools have various handle lengths... Looks like the "#3500 Straight Grub Hoe" would work for you... If you need something even longer, you could try the handles for post hole diggers or for wheelbarrows. A lathe is going to help make an even shape out of it, but you can get a pretty good approximation with just a block plane and a sanding block (although with a lot more work on your part).

Nematocyst
March 20, 2011, 08:51 PM
Looks like the "#3500 Straight Grub Hoe" would work for you
I agree. Thanks for that link.

hso
March 20, 2011, 09:53 PM
I'm a fan of crook top canes over straight or "L"-top canes.

I've found the ability to use the crook to hook and pull things to me (or help pull me to things) to be very handy. Too many ankle and knee injuries have given me too much practical experience along these lines.

While advanced techniques, the defensive use of the crook for trapping and hooking/throwing are impressive.

Nematocyst
March 20, 2011, 10:36 PM
I'm a fan of crook top canes
over straight or "L"-top canes.Mikey likes it.

CollinLeon
March 20, 2011, 10:37 PM
I'm a fan of crook top canes over straight or "L"-top canes.

I've found the ability to use the crook to hook and pull things to me (or help pull me to things) to be very handy. Too many ankle and knee injuries have given me too much practical experience along these lines.

While advanced techniques, the defensive use of the crook for trapping and hooking/throwing are impressive.
Having some sort of bent end on it is nice from a practicality standpoint instead of just a knob type end since it does allow you to pull things to you more easily. Things like items from upper shelves or just things from very deep shelves in grocery stores. When the old knees don't like bending in order to pick things up off the ground, you'll find that for many things, you can hook them with your cane and pick them up that way. For the unskilled though, a knob type end probably makes a better defensive weapon.

Nematocyst
March 20, 2011, 10:42 PM
For the unskilled though, a knob type end
probably makes a better defensive weapon.I love my knob stick.

So fast, so hard is that knob end.

DeTerminator
March 20, 2011, 10:43 PM
I agree with hso about the crook top canes, even though other canes are nice, too.

Crook tops are VERY handy for pulling things, and also provide a comfortable grip.

I really like my blackthorn, but prolonged use of it can make my hand sore from the pressure of leaning on the knob.

Try 'em both, see what you like!

Kerry

Flintknapper
March 20, 2011, 11:10 PM
^^^^^^^^

+1 on crook top canes (all of mine are).

I love the looks of many of the walking sticks, some are even works of art, but its hard for me to give up the extra defensive dimension the crook provides.

In recent years there has been a lot interest generated for the cane.

In fact, one of largest seminars we've had (in terms of attendance) was a level 1 cane seminar (2 day). I was surprised to see a good mix of age groups (and gender) as well, not just a bunch of old folks (like me).

We almost didn't have enough instructors to go around.

hso
March 20, 2011, 11:17 PM
I recently received a dozen hickory stock canes and have experimented with the angle of cut and how much to cut off of the crook. Since my Sifu wanted a couple for a new form he's studying I got to vary some of my cuts. I cut one too short right off the bat and went on to match a couple with just enough removed to open the crook while still have an inward pointing crook.

I started looking at the cane I'd cut too much from the crook thinking what I might do with it. Handling it I decided I liked the slightly outward pointing crook and could see it making hooks and traps easier, but I'm not too sure about throws.

Flintknapper
March 21, 2011, 02:58 AM
hso,


Here is what I settled on:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/cane_1.jpg

I like for the crook to be fairly open, it allows you to quickly hook, but also lets you easily disengage. This crook is too deep for a “training” cane (would not be safe), but is more than adequate for normal hooking AND throws.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I put some grooves in the other end of this livestock cane (1” hickory cane), the purpose for them is twofold.

First, it makes a good grip when you reach out the full length of the cane to hook something.

Second the grooves “bite” into the skin…when choking up on the cane for techniques such as a Figure Four on the arm or a combination F4/throat take down.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/cane_2.jpg


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, the bevel you see at the end of the crook is a useful feature too.

Besides helping to guide objects into the crook, it is covertly a “pointed end” that is used to apply pressure to areas like the clavicle or ribcage of the back.

Some tactical/defensive canes have very aggressive (and obvious) points. With these….you run the risk of having the cane “confiscated until needed” certain places such as Airplanes.

Mine is easily explained away as a space saving storage feature. When placed upon a counter/table top, the bevel directs the cane underneath….keeping it out of the way, but leaving it readily accessible.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/cane_3.jpg

Nematocyst
March 21, 2011, 04:39 AM
^ That's really nice.

hso
March 21, 2011, 10:36 AM
Flintknapper,

Interesting, that's about where I cut the one I'm playing around with. Perhaps a tiny bit more open. I'll try to get a picture later today and put it up.

cordell
March 23, 2011, 05:41 PM
Hello all,
I have a bum knee that sometimes cripples me during bad weather. If I had to pick one out of the umbrella stand as my favorite it would be my blackthorne. I have a CCP, but should I ever need something to swing you certainly would not want to be on the receiving end of this rascal. BTW what a great bunch of canes on this thread, and some great ideas along with them.....Take care and God bless....cordell

Flintknapper
March 23, 2011, 06:57 PM
hso wrote:


Flintknapper,

Interesting, that's about where I cut the one I'm playing around with. Perhaps a tiny bit more open.

Perfect!

I actually had to boil mine in water to open it up about 3/4", then cut the crook to the depth I wanted.

Yours looks just right. It might be a little tight for neck hooking (girth of peoples necks vary widely), but should work on most folks.

For hooking limbs (arms/legs)...if you make it your habit to twist the cane as you hook, it will help hold whatever you are after (you probably already know).

Although the cane is not the easiest of sticks to wield, it is still one of my favorites. You can maintain distance with a cane...and generate a lot of power out on the end.

The down side of the cane is that you need to know retention techniques. If I could only carry one stick, it would have to be a single Escrima cut to 26".

Deltaboy
March 24, 2011, 07:31 PM
I am going to make some ajustment to mine soon.

hso
March 24, 2011, 08:18 PM
Flintknapper,

The angle on that cut bites as it hooks so even if the neck is large it gouges a chunk if you yank too hard (and causes enormous pain if you don't). It isn't a good "instructor's" cane, but that's what my Canmaster is for. I am tempted to put it on the chop saw and open it up just a smidge, though.

Deltaboy
March 30, 2011, 11:19 PM
If I am grapping some one in a personal defense case I want it to HURT!

Flintknapper
April 1, 2011, 12:26 AM
Deltaboy wrote:

If I am grapping some one in a personal defense case I want it to HURT

Agreed, but applying pain with a cane is not difficult anyway (if you know what you are doing), but I have seen some defensive canes (especially by canemasters) that you would NOT be allowed to carry some places.

A personal defense cane needs to be functional, but it doesn't need to look like a fish hook or Medieval tool for disemboweling someone.

A normal cane of good construction (with perhaps a FEW enhancements) will do everything you need it to.

Deltaboy
April 2, 2011, 12:03 AM
I agree! Only my Hammerhead has gotten me any real notice.

Deltaboy
April 23, 2011, 08:36 PM
I am loving my hammer head so far.

craftsman
May 5, 2011, 03:56 PM
Do it for stylin' !

I picked up a Harvy brand, made of fiber-carbon, weighs 8.8 oz., 37 in. long, with a derbi grip. Looks black from most angles, but snakeskin pattern appears in certain lighting conditions (triple-wound for strength). Supports up to 250# - and it can be used as a weapon if needed.

http://www.harvycanes.com/ecom/shop/item.asp?itemid=952&catid=164

Deltaboy
May 5, 2011, 10:08 PM
Carbon Fiber in my book for the hip guys I,m just a Ole School guy !

Nematocyst
May 5, 2011, 10:11 PM
Hickory or harder.

hso
May 5, 2011, 11:12 PM
it can be used as a weapon if needed.

It might be "stylin", but it is too light for all the defensive options of a cane. Listen to Nem and the others that have spent a little time playing with a cane.

Why not take a little time whacking that new toy on a heavy bag like it is some BG and let us know if it explodes or not?:evil:

Deltaboy
June 19, 2011, 08:56 PM
Now the weather warmed up in Texas my ankle plus my gym workouts has been behaving!

DriderX
June 19, 2011, 09:29 PM
I'm far from a rocking chair, but I'm starting to
carry a cane out in public.

It's legal everywhere;)

You know, years ago, it
was one item a young man would always have at his side.

self defense was one of the reasons
I do now have injuries and infirmities that require my use of a cane, but I carried a cane everywhere even before that. One I figured out how useful they are for a million different things it was difficult to go without it. Self defense, and its concomitant deterrent effect, is just one use; another is the "automatic upgrade" effect at airline gates -- use of a cane automatically gets me priority pre-boarding status (which, as I mentioned, these days I do need, but the cane obviates having to produce any other proof).

My current favorite is a mulberry-root cane with leather grip wrap that I made myself; close second is a light blackthorn cane with a palm-swell grip that allows more load for longer time without my wrist or hand hurting. I also have a couple of semi-custom buffalo-head canes (one eagle head, one hound-dog) and maybe a half-dozen others. For some reason I can't keep from buying the next great idea in canes I see. In fact I've been thinking about the Cold Steel carbon-fiber City Stick with the metal golf-ball head... :-)

DRiderX, cane-fu aficionado :-D

MashieNiblick
June 20, 2011, 12:41 AM
i've got a retractable, telescoping 16" baton at my side at all times when out with dog or by self for a long walk- solely for doggies, though.

i bypass bringing a baton to the potential knife fight.

That's what my Ruger .38 spec is for. . . .

i've got a nice heavy branch stashed by some railroad tracks in town, though.

next time when in an auto, and if convenient, 'll see if it's still there. if so, will take it, and a begin widdling with my kanetsue to see if i can make something nice similar to what ya'll are talking about.

then there's the sabbath or sunday stick that i've been looking for. baddog69 had a good one for sale on ebay somewhere in Europe, probably Scotland. hard to find nice ones, and typically expensive. look them up. . . .

- MN

Deltaboy
June 20, 2011, 11:38 PM
I still keep a cane in all my rides just in case the ankle goes out!

Owen Sparks
June 21, 2011, 02:59 AM
I can't pull it off. Everything works too well on me still, and I'm in pretty obvious good condition from working out and Yoga.

So maybe you hurt your back working out. A disability does not have to be perminant. I pulled something in my back lifting weights once when I was about 20 years old and could not even tie my shoes for a few days. It happens. If I had to fly on a commercial air line I might develop some sort of temporary "injury" in order to carry my stick.

Carl Levitian
June 21, 2011, 02:52 PM
Quote:
[I can't pull it off. Everything works too well on me still, and I'm in pretty obvious good condition from working out and Yoga.]


Please, don't have this attitude. It's giving in to the polictical correctness, and besides, you're not doing anything that you have to 'pull off'. There's no law in the land against carrying a cane. None. It may be excentric at worst, and none of anyones business at best. And who's to say who may have an injury or disability unless they are a doctor with x-rays and MRI scans at the ready.

Under the Americans With Disabilities Act, 'they' are not allowed to ask or pry into your medical background. Period. Nada. You do not have to pull off anything. In fact, if someone does indeed inquire as to why you have a cane, you can tell them 'because I can."

When I was discharged from the army after 10 years of service, because of injuries received on active duty, I was just past my 30th birthday. The Doc's at Walter Reed did a really good job on me, and when they got done with my rehab, I hardly had a limp. On a good day, with a little white pill, I didn't even limp sometimes. Add to that, because of vanity I wouldn't carry an old fogy cane, I was toting a knarly Irish Blackthorn stick given to me by an uncle. So it was inevitable that once in a while some nosy person would ask why I was carrying a cane, or ask "what's with the stick?" I had different answers for different people. If it was a complete stranger, I'd politely but bluntly tell them it was none of their business. Or if I was in a better mood, I'd tell them "because I can." and leave it at that. If it was somebody who knew me from a long way back, I'd tell them its an old service injury and leave it at that. Most people really don't pry. But most of all, you don't have to explain why. Just start carrying it and people will soon accept it as part of your persona.

Carl.

Deltaboy
June 21, 2011, 10:16 PM
Great Post Carl. The ADA slams the door shut on TSA or any Police asking about it.

Owen Sparks
June 22, 2011, 02:37 AM
I think practically everyone in law enforcement has had a to take a course on the ADA. The departments are all trying to avoid law suits. The cool thing is that a 3' stick is generally a far superior weapon to any concealable knife because of the reach.

Carl Levitian
June 22, 2011, 11:50 AM
If it was just about the A.D.A. I wouldn't get as uptight as I do. It's more about the fact that there's no law about a cane/walking stick, and it used to be a fashion to carry a walking stick, but modern society has made us feel that we're doing something wrong, and we have to fake a limp or something to "pull it off" as I've heard it called. Why do we have to justify something that is so totally legal?

It's like having to justify the carry of a two AA mini Maglite that doubles as a kuboton. I carry one in a nylon sheath right on my right hip, where I can grab it in a second. My only comment to people who ask is, "It's gotten dark every night I've been alive." Mostly they leave it at that. Family and friends don't ask, because I'm the one that has a flashlight when they can't find something dropped on the floor of the theater, or like situation. But when we are made to feel like we have to justify something that we are doing, that there is no law against, and is not harming or causing an inconveinience to anyone, something is wrong.

Last I heard, America was still a semi-free country, and we should not have to justify a cane by walking with a limp we don't have. We don't try to justify a can of pepper spray. It's pretty above board that it's a self defense item. In 38 out of the 50 states it's legal to carry a firearm to defend oneself. So why can't we just say to someone who asks about our cane that "Hey, it's mean streets out there, and I may have to defend myself from some low life."

Yes, the A.D.A. gives us a fall back, but in a free society it shouldn't be needed.

Carl.

Deltaboy
June 22, 2011, 04:32 PM
Your correct Carl. Another great post!

Tom609
June 22, 2011, 04:52 PM
Yes, thank you Carl!

glistam
June 23, 2011, 01:14 PM
Honestly I have never had anyone even ask why I had mine (and I'm a younger guy). Yeah people stare, but nobody ever tried to challenge me. I think most people these days simply feel it's rude to ask and assume I'm either a wounded vet (common in this area) or that I have ataxia (which has no effect on the legs). The most that ever happens is they want to know where I got it or how it was made.

Harley Quinn
June 23, 2011, 01:53 PM
I voted sometimes...

I have them around the house and in my vehicles:D If needed they are close, but if not carried like a ccw when the shtf, will have to worry about that if it happens, at the time...

Sort of a Virgil Cole attitude:D Robert B Parker character in a few books about the old west ;)
http://www.thrillingdetective.com/eyes/cole_and_hitch.html

Why I train H2H, and lift weights, even at my old age:uhoh: Cane and firearms also

:)

Gordon
June 23, 2011, 04:53 PM
I just HAVE to post now with all you old service coots who I'd like to raise a horn with. :)

I know I can't tear heads off the monsters anymore at 65, nor outrun them, so when going to drinking establishments the last couple years my antique blackthorn goes with me. I carry a gun the rest of the time generally but always have a stock cane in my vehicles for lesser work!

Have a good day mates! :D

ArfinGreebly
June 24, 2011, 01:20 AM
It's like having to justify the carry of a two AA mini Maglite that doubles as a kuboton. I carry one in a nylon sheath right on my right hip, where I can grab it in a second. My only comment to people who ask is, "It's gotten dark every night I've been alive."

Where I work, I'm known as "the gadget guy," the one who always has pliers or screwdriver or a knife. People who would normally flinch at a "big-ish" knife now find it more "amusing" than anything else when I first look at the job, then decide which knife to deploy. The admin secretary was my first person to de-sensitize and make accustomed to the presence of excessive cutlery.

Now, when something needs a little "tool" help, she'll send them to me: ask Arfin; he's the gadget guy. And generally, somewhere in my array of hardware, there's something that will do the job.

The side benefit is that nobody gives it a second thought when I whip out a full-sized folder to make a salad in the kitchen. Hey, it's just another one of his gadgets.

I have no problem being the eccentric in the crowd, as long as it gives me the freedom to lug around random sharps.

Now all I have to figure out is how a cane can be added to the gadget family without getting the Spock eyebrow.

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