Both eyes open


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Wheelguner05
November 28, 2010, 02:21 PM
Hey guys, I am having some troubles shooting both eyes open, if I focus on my sights I see two targets If I focus on my target I see two sights :fire:
What should I do?

Note: I am talking about handguns.

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Freedom_fighter_in_IL
November 28, 2010, 02:30 PM
What handed are you and which eye is dominant? I had that problem for a lot of years before I found out I was right handed but left eye dominant. I switched up shooting handgun left handed and that solved the problem.

Wheelguner05
November 28, 2010, 02:32 PM
Left handed and the eyes are equal. The eye doctor cant find my dominat eye.

Sheepdog1968
November 28, 2010, 02:34 PM
I think the two eye open is highly over rated. Under combat stress you are most likely going to have tunnel vision and auditory exclusion. Just close one eye when shooting and don't worry about it.

M-Cameron
November 28, 2010, 02:49 PM
if you wear eye/shooting glasses........try putting 1 strip of scotch tape vertical over the lense slightly offset to the outside of the middle of the eye on your "non aiming" eye....

.....this will cause the vision in that eye to slightly blur causing your other eye to focus on the target....but you will still maintain most of your peripheral vision.

jimmyraythomason
November 28, 2010, 02:52 PM
Just close one eye when shooting and don't worry about it.This is what I do. It has worked well for me for the last 40 years.

PRM
November 28, 2010, 03:00 PM
Dominant Eye ~ Hum, I have shot quite a bit strong and weak hand. Don't like the both eyes open technique. I shoot left hand/left eye, right hand/right eye, I've found whatever eye is open is dominant with the other closed.

lions
November 28, 2010, 03:11 PM
Do as M-Cameron suggests in post #5. I used that technique and eventually I was able to take the tape off all together and now shoot both eyes open with no problem.

rozziboy18
November 28, 2010, 03:16 PM
my .02,
shoot for a while with your right eye blinded, ie tape up your glasses on the right side. shoot that way for a while and you'll train your left eye to become dominant. worked for my friend ryan and my boss'es daughter.

Diggers
November 28, 2010, 03:28 PM
So I'm guessing you have tried the trick of pointing at something across the room with both eyes open then close one eye at a time and whichever eye has your finger on target is your dominant eye....right?

I have a dominant eye for sure but I get the same double sight or double target thing you do. It’s just how our eyes work.

My understanding about both eyes open shooting is that it’s meant for point shooting where sights aren't really used. I just focus on the target and bring the gun up into my field of vision in front of the target and fire. This is combat shooting so you aren't going to make neat little groups, it’s meant to be a quick way to hit COM -ish. (OK some mutants CAN make neat little groups like this but it’s rare.)

Point shooting is meant to use your natural pointing ability, keeping both eyes open just helps you see the situation you're in better.

Dionysusigma
November 28, 2010, 03:33 PM
If it doesn't work, or you don't like it, then don't do it. :)

Me, I just "pick" one of the two sets of sights and use 'em. Sometimes it's the right, sometimes the left.

hammerklavier
November 28, 2010, 03:42 PM
Whichever set of sights has the correct sight picture, lined up on target are the ones you should use :)

The Lone Haranguer
November 28, 2010, 05:43 PM
Astigmatism?

jeepguy
November 28, 2010, 06:14 PM
i don't feel so bad now, i have shot like this all my life. it worked but i would hear/read shoot with both eyes open and i couldn't, at least not effectively. i thought this was just me though & not common.

allfouledup
November 28, 2010, 06:27 PM
My guess is you may be doing something I do subconciously all the time. That is, I change eye dominance (it's kinda like going cross-eyed with my non-dominant eye) to see stuff -usually detail - I'm having trouble seeing. My eye doctor says lots of people do it, and many don't realize it. Just a guess. You could try that thing Diggers mentioned and try to go cross-eyed with the non-dominant one.

Owen Sparks
November 28, 2010, 06:39 PM
You said:
"Left handed and the eyes are equal. The eye doctor cant find my dominat eye."

That is your problem. Since both eyes are equal you don't have a stronger eye to default to. You may have to squint.

Wheelguner05
November 28, 2010, 07:04 PM
So I'm guessing you have tried the trick of pointing at something across the room with both eyes open then close one eye at a time and whichever eye has your finger on target is your dominant eye....right?

I have a dominant eye for sure but I get the same double sight or double target thing you do. It’s just how our eyes work.

My understanding about both eyes open shooting is that it’s meant for point shooting where sights aren't really used. I just focus on the target and bring the gun up into my field of vision in front of the target and fire. This is combat shooting so you aren't going to make neat little groups, it’s meant to be a quick way to hit COM -ish. (OK some mutants CAN make neat little groups like this but it’s rare.)

Point shooting is meant to use your natural pointing ability, keeping both eyes open just helps you see the situation you're in better.
but when I do that trick you mentioned one eye lines up with the object but when I ture my head to line it up the other eye works aswell.

Larry Ashcraft
November 28, 2010, 07:05 PM
Shoot a shotgun with one eye closed and you are going to be doing a lot of missing.

Wheelguner05
November 28, 2010, 07:09 PM
So I'm guessing you have tried the trick of pointing at something across the room with both eyes open then close one eye at a time and whichever eye has your finger on target is your dominant eye....right?

I have a dominant eye for sure but I get the same double sight or double target thing you do. It’s just how our eyes work.

My understanding about both eyes open shooting is that it’s meant for point shooting where sights aren't really used. I just focus on the target and bring the gun up into my field of vision in front of the target and fire. This is combat shooting so you aren't going to make neat little groups, it’s meant to be a quick way to hit COM -ish. (OK some mutants CAN make neat little groups like this but it’s rare.)

Point shooting is meant to use your natural pointing ability, keeping both eyes open just helps you see the situation you're in better.
Oh ok, because I was shooting today within 15 feet with myy handgun and I seem to get good groups

My solution:
When training for defense situtation I will just point my gun at the target. while not even bothering to deal with the sights.(under 20ft)
But when I am making Long range shots Ill cclose one eye.

Wheelguner05
November 28, 2010, 07:10 PM
Shoot a shotgun with one eye closed and you are going to be doing a lot of missing.
I just point my shotgun, like I would point a finger.

rfwobbly
November 28, 2010, 07:10 PM
The eye doctor cant find my dominant eye.

I haven't been to medical school so I'm no expert, but usually the dominant eye is found in the forehead, about 3" away from the other eye.

:neener:

KBintheSLC
November 28, 2010, 07:14 PM
Here is a tutorial that may help you with using both eyes. You focus on the target, not the sights, and learn to isolate the dominant eye (it explains that too). If neither eye is dominant, then choose the eye that is on the same side as your dominant hand.

http://brasstard.com/2009/12/29/pistol-sighting-201-point-shooting/

rogertc1
December 2, 2010, 07:13 PM
wear a eye patch

Deanimator
December 2, 2010, 08:08 PM
I can't do it either and have been shooting since 1976.

It's not worth worrying over.

Do what works for YOU.

todayzprophet
December 2, 2010, 08:11 PM
The Army says to find your dominant eye and close the other. I don't understand why some people want to say that keeping both eyes open is better. It's not natural. Natural instinct is to close one eye. Of course, people should ultimately do what works best for them. If you are unable to find your dominant eye, then I would say to experiment and use whatever technique provides the best shooting results. Hope that helps you out.

kwelz
December 2, 2010, 08:48 PM
The Army says to find your dominant eye and close the other. I don't understand why some people want to say that keeping both eyes open is better. It's not natural. Natural instinct is to close one eye. Of course, people should ultimately do what works best for them. If you are unable to find your dominant eye, then I would say to experiment and use whatever technique provides the best shooting results. Hope that helps you out.

Army doesn't teach this anymore. If you are closing one eye you are not seeing your environment and that is a good way to end up dead.

todayzprophet
December 2, 2010, 08:53 PM
Army doesn't teach this anymore? Funny...I just spent my entire summer at Fort Jackson, SC and most of the fall in Fort Huachuca, AZ. Yes, that's what we are taught. I may not be an expert but I am a marksman. Most people cannot focus on a target with both eyes open. It is usually best for most people to find their dominant eye and close the other. However, as I stated, people should do what produces the best results for them. For me, I will continue to close my left eye due to being right eye dominant. Also, I am sure no one is actually running around like Popeye with one eye closed. You would only close one eye to take a targeted shot, not when someone is in your face or you are moving around. Common sense must always be applied. Again, people should do what gives them the best results on their target. Period.

kwelz
December 2, 2010, 08:57 PM
Interesting. Lots of friends of mine are currently in the service and not a single one was taught to shoot with one eye closed. Marksmanship is different of course. That is a completely different type of shooting.

taliv
December 2, 2010, 09:03 PM
uhh, am i missing something here?

what happened to focusing on the front sight?

the front sight.

focus on it.

i know, right?

k,thx bye!

todayzprophet
December 2, 2010, 09:08 PM
You're correct, Taliv. Focus on that front sight and ensure it is on target. Center mass at 100 meters. However, I believe the question of the thread is to what technique do different people employ while focusing on that front sight. Do they fire with both eyes open or one eye closed? Of course, I've already stated my viewpoint so I will leave it at that.

AOK
December 2, 2010, 10:48 PM
I had the same problem when I started keeping both of my eyes open a few years ago. I tried focusing on the front sight so much after I fired a couple rounds I started to see doubles.

I then started to focus more on my target while still being aware of exactly where my front sight was. Now I am focused on the target, draw and get a good/quick front sight aquisition, press the trigger, through the recoil I am still focused on the target, the front sight snaps right back down on the target, and I fire again. The more I practiced the faster I got and was able to know exactly where my front sight was while still focusing on the target. The closer I get to the target I tend to natural increase my rate of fire. As I back away from the target I naturally slow down my rate of fire as well as naturally close my non dominant eye depending on what kind of distances I have backed up to.

thorazine
December 4, 2010, 05:14 AM
What sights?

Sauer Grapes
December 4, 2010, 07:32 AM
I try to shoot with both eyes open. Depends on what my eyes feel like on any given day......:confused:

kludge
December 4, 2010, 11:25 PM
First thing to get out of the way: I shoot a handgun with both eyes open and I don't ascribe to the "front sight focus" method.

Here is a visual description of what you see with both eyes open, looking at the target vs. looking at the front sight:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/84kludge/safe/visionII.gif http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/84kludge/safe/vision.gif

The picture on the left shows what you do when you bowl, pitch a baseball, shoot a shotgun, shoot a rifle with a red dot, and is what you've been doing with your pointer finger since you could crawl. It's totally natural and it's what will happen, whether you want it to or not, in a SD situation, so don't fight nature, learn to use it.

Perhaps you've seen the optical illusion where you hold a paper towel tube up to one eye and your hand next to it while focusing on the wall on the other side of the room? Your brains will see an image of your hand with a hole in the middle.

It happens in reverse when you shoot pistol with a target focus - you see a ghost image of the front sight on the center of the target -- just like pointing your finger at an object across the room.

Your brain automatically knows which of the "two" front sights to line up with the target, you've been doing it since you were a baby... but just in case you have to analyze it... if you are right eye dominant the front sight on the left is the one that should line up with the center of the target. IOW the target, front sight and dominant eye are all in a line and the non-dominant eye will produce a second image which the brain (my brain anyway) ignores... hence the notion of a dominant eye.

By the way, I am left handed and right eye dominant and I shoot right handed - I've always done it, and nobody had to tell me to do it that way.

Wicz
January 4, 2011, 08:16 PM
i actually shoot more accurately 3-7 yds focusing on the TARGET with both eyes open. i practice with my laser and am almost always dead on. this seems to go against everything i read about target shooting. any ideas or is it just "do what works for you"? i've always heard focus on the front sight is right...

jcwit
January 4, 2011, 08:32 PM
Some of the targets I shoot at aren't there any more at a 100 yds when I focus on the front sight.

Kangspec
January 4, 2011, 08:34 PM
you can't shoot with both eyes open when ever you decide to.

You need to practice and practice till your eyes are adjusted. There are some helpful you tube videos.

brandon_mcg
January 4, 2011, 08:39 PM
there is no way that i could shoot with both eyes open....

NMGonzo
January 4, 2011, 09:04 PM
For self defense practice I just bring the gun up and I hit what needs to be hit at 10 yards.

Took a while but I got to that point.

Both eyes open, double action.

Just like playing tennis, man.

Floppy_D
January 4, 2011, 09:10 PM
Shoot a shotgun with one eye closed and you are going to be doing a lot of missing.
Interesting. I'm right-handed/left-eyed, and I always close my right eye. I had a right eye injury when I was sixteen (I couldn't use it for a week, and it was impaired for several weeks/months afterwards) and have astygmatism in the same eye, and have a very dominant left eye. I close my right eye, and manage to shoot expert rifle/pistol to USN standards.

The ONLY time I shoot with both eyes open is with a shotgun, and I never noticed that until Mr. Lapin pointed that out. Huh. :)

Bulldawg55
January 4, 2011, 10:00 PM
For self defence ranges, get a laser. You could use your left eye, right eye or both and you'll know right where the bullet is going! :D

NavyLCDR
January 4, 2011, 10:08 PM
I am left eye dominant, right handed. I don't see the need, when shooting handguns, to switch my shooting hand. I just use my left eye to aim with and keep my right eye open.

You might want to try shooting lined up directly in front of your left eye, and then lined up directly in front of your right eye and see if one or the other doesn't work for you. You non-aiming eye should really just be for peripheral vision anyway.

When I shoot rifle, I have to close my left eye and use my right eye.

I'm getting lasik done in three weeks. I can't wait to see what a curve ball that throws at everything!

benEzra
January 5, 2011, 12:01 PM
I have the same problem; I don't really have a dominant eye (years ago I was very mildly cross-dominant but now both eyes are equal). If I try the "look at an object across the room and make a circle around it with your fingers" test, I get different results if I do it multiple times. So, I just shoot right-eyed since I am right handed.

I shot for years closing the left eye, then was able to shift to just squinting it a little, and now can shoot both-eyes open. With handguns, I do find it easier to do when shooting from an isosceles stance rather than a Weaver stance, for some reason. With rifles, get a red dot and you can shoot both-eyes-open with either eye regardless of eye dominance.

Mudinyeri
January 5, 2011, 02:25 PM
Hmmm ... you're going to have tunnel vision anyway, so go ahead and close one eye. Sure, let's exacerbate what is already a limiting factor in high-stress situations.

Natural instinct is to close one eye. Tell that to someone who's never fired a weapon before and has never received any instruction on doing so.

I'm not here to force anyone to shoot one way or the other, but those two statements made my eyes bug out (both of them - I didn't naturally close one and allow only the other one to bug out)!

Seriously, if you want to learn to shoot with both eyes open, start close to your target - maybe a couple yards - focus on your front sight and increase the speed and distance as you get better. I shoot much more accurately at common self-defense distances with both eyes open.

If you don't want to learn to shoot with both eyes open ... don't.

KBintheSLC
January 5, 2011, 02:38 PM
Learning to shoot with both eyes open is a bit challenging at first, but it becomes very fast and very natural with some training. I have been using this method for several years now with pistol, rifle and shotgun. It allows a for a heightened sense of visual awareness compared to the one eye method. http://brasstard.com/2009/12/29/pistol-sighting-201-point-shooting/

The one eye, front sight focus is still useful for long-range precision work, but I am convinced that using both eyes, and focusing on the target is superior for CQC.

ny32182
January 5, 2011, 03:45 PM
I'm left handed, and can't determine an eye dominance using the at-home tests.

To me, shooting one eye closed is natural; I should know because I've never had any formal training, and that is what feels most natural to me in almost all circumstances (rifle with a red dot being the exception). And it is what I did for years.

For pistol, I started trying to do some "both eyes open" shooting over the summer. I shoot IDPA. At this point it has become a balancing act between speed of sight acquisition and speed of (especially longer) target transitions.

With both eyes open I can often see peripheral targets sooner depending on their placement, but don't pick up the sights as well due to the "two guns" out front, and vice versa; sight acquisition is quicker with one eye closed. So what I do now is kind of a happy medium; I do a slight squint with my off-side eye that ghosts the "extra" gun enough so I don't pay attention to it, yet lets me still see targets to the right if I'm slicing the pie left to right. If I'm five yards or closer I will pretty much focus on the target. Even 7 yards on out, I find myself focusing on the front sight.

Rifle with a red dot feels great both eyes open to me, and the reason is that the dot is in enough of a tube that my weak side eye can't see it. Thus I only get one dot instead of two, and can also focus on the target.

Sheepdog1968
January 5, 2011, 04:10 PM
Shoot a shotgun with one eye closed and you are going to be doing a lot of missing.
Funny you should mention that, I did some clay sport shooting last week and yes, trying with one eye was problematic since it was harder to pick up on the moving target. For self-defense and shotgun, rifle, pistol use one eye works. If I were to get serious about clays (or bird hunting) I'd have to explore it a bit more.

BLACKHAWKNJ
January 5, 2011, 06:06 PM
IMHO there is no "One Size Fits All" technique. I personally did not become a
good pistol shot until I started practicing Bullseye, part of proper technique is closing the non shooting eye in a relaxed manner so you don't strain yourself. In BCT in 1967 it was close the non shooting eye, concentrate on the sights, in Vietnam it was point and spray due to the thick foliage and shadows it created, I suspect it's the same today for troops operating in urban environments where close ranges make quick reaction even more critical.

Mudinyeri
January 5, 2011, 09:25 PM
BLACKHAWKNJ, I suspect you're onto something. If you're shooting stationary targets while standing still, one-eyed shooting probably works well. I haven't done much of that since I owned a pistol with a scope.

If you're shooting IDPA or USPSA or any other practical pistol shooting, I can't see how closing one eye can help you.

In my Army training, the instructors berated you and punished you for closing an eye to shoot. (You want to sleep? Get down in the front leaning rest and close your eyes!) We learned two COM, one to the head with both eyes open. Then again, this wasn't marksman or basic training.

-eaux-
January 6, 2011, 12:53 AM
In MY case, it all depends upon what I'm shooting and why. I have astigmatic vision in both eyes, I see clearly at reading-a-book distance but at across-the-room distance I can't tell Adam from Eve without my glasses. When I target shoot or practice SD drills with a handgun, I do MUCH better with both eyes open and point shooting at 7-15yds. If I'm practicing with / sighting in a hunting handgun or longarm, I always fire right-handed/right-eyed (wearing my spectacles!)

Trent
January 6, 2011, 07:52 AM
I didn't understand the significance of eye dominance until about 6 years ago. Took my wife shooting when I got her a Sig for Christmas, and after a couple of sessions at the indoor range she was still making patterns at 7 yards instead of groups. Meanwhile, on rifles, she can put down a quarter inch group at 100 yards. I couldn't figure it out.

Later that year, I re-watched some old movie where they had to "re-train" one a helicopter pilot's eye dominance so he could use the night vision monocle in the attack helicopter. They taped over one eye and made him drive around base in a jeep or something. Can't recall the movie name off-hand, but it got me thinking about eye dominance. So I tested my wife's eye dominance.

Sure enough, my wife is right handed, left eye dominant. I tried getting her to shoot handguns left handed, it was a disaster in the making (she has little itty-bitty wrists), she kept catching the brass as it ejected. So now she closes her left eye to shoot, and shoots right handed.

And she's still a bad-ass with a rifle. She made little necklaces out of dimes she shot at 100 yards that she handed out to friends and family. She can put the 22-250 right close to the edge of dimes at 100 yards, so it'll hang right on a necklace or fit on a keychain. :)

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