Loading 45/70, Lee FCD Denting Cases


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scubadown
November 28, 2010, 04:46 PM
I am loading 45/70 and the Lee Factory Crimp Die seems to be putting light vertical dents around the Starline brass cases. Is this typical for the FCD?

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rcmodel
November 28, 2010, 05:35 PM
Yes, No, Maybe.

Some of the rifle caliber FCD's use a collet to squeeze the crimp ring.
The slits in the collet may leave tiny vertical "dents".

I would have thought though the 45-70 FCD would have been a different type with a carbide post sizer insert like other straight-wall handgun calibers.

But I don't know.

rc

243winxb
November 28, 2010, 06:45 PM
The case mouth will look like these after a few loadings. :uhoh: http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/dies-crimp.html http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/LeeFCD-1.jpg

scubadown
November 28, 2010, 06:49 PM
My light dents are longitudinal not circumferential.

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv338/scubadown2/LeeFCD1.jpg
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv338/scubadown2/LeeFCD2.jpg

MrOldLude
November 29, 2010, 09:35 AM
From what I'm seeing, I can't say it's normal, but I wouldn't be too concerned with the effects.

scubadown
November 29, 2010, 09:43 AM
I think what I have concluded is that I had the FCD adjusted too much, causing the collets to bottom out and then flex in, causing the dents. Backing off the FCD seems to reduce the denting.

Walkalong
November 29, 2010, 10:18 AM
That is likely what is happening from the look of the dents.

rcmodel
November 29, 2010, 12:00 PM
Well, that doesn't look like the result of a collet style FCD crimp anyway.

Looks more like the solid carbide insert roll crimp one, as used on other straight wall calibers.

rc

68wj
November 29, 2010, 12:09 PM
Are the dents the same for every case? If so, have you checked the inside of the collet for any debris or even surface inconsistancies? A small bump in the metal could be pressing the dent into the case as it crimps. I am only guessing at this point though as I have never seen this issue.

Walkalong
November 29, 2010, 12:16 PM
I am 99% sure there is no collet in the .45-70 FCD, and that it works like their other FCD's for straight walled calibers.

scubadown
November 29, 2010, 12:39 PM
No it is a Lee FCD. It has four collects that come together as the cartridge is pressed up into it.

243winxb
November 29, 2010, 01:07 PM
Its a Rifle typeAs my link in post #3 showed. Lee instructions > Factory crimp die adjustment

The amount of crimp applied will be consistent if your press has mechanical stops built into the lever linkage, and you lower the lever to the stop every time. Start with the Factory Crimp die turned into the press until it stops against the shell holder with the ram raised all the way. Lower the ram, and turn the die in one full turn. Now try crimping a case, making sure that you raise the ram (lower the lever) all the way to the stop. You will feel slight resistance at the top of the stroke, as the crimp collet is forced up into the die body.

If the crimp is not firm enough, turn the die in another 1/4 turn and try again. If you turn the die in to the point where the four slits in the collet are closed when the ram is raised all the way, you have reached the limit.

If your press doesn't* have a " mechanical stop" built into it, then what? :confused:

Walkalong
November 29, 2010, 02:03 PM
No it is a Lee FCD. It has four collectsSure looks like a typical roll crimp in the pic. I am remoting in though, and pics are not real clear. Hmm. Anyway, I still think you are right, it needs to be adjusted lighter.

rcmodel
November 29, 2010, 02:18 PM
Yep!

I went to Lee website and checked.
And it is listed in the FCD collet die section, not the carbide "size'r till it cries uncle" section.

The 45-70 FCD sure enough has a collet in the parts list too.

rc

m0par
November 29, 2010, 07:53 PM
Stupid question, but are you sure they weren't dented before using the FCD?

The pics look quite similar to what I've seen when I've over-lubed during sizing.

GaryL
November 29, 2010, 08:56 PM
The case mouth will look like these after a few loadings. Sure that's not the Lee FCCD? (Factory Crimp & Cut to Length Die)

:D

1858
November 29, 2010, 10:44 PM
I use a Lee FCD to put a nice roll crimp on my .45-70 loads and I don't have any issues with the cases buckling. I don't have any photos of my reloads available right now but I have a bunch of reloads made up at home so if a photo would be useful I can take a few. I really like the Lee FCD for putting a nice roll crimp on .45 Colt, .454 Casull and .45-70 loads but HATE it for .357 Mag. I'm reverting to using the RCBS seater/roll crimp dies to roll crimp .357 Mag and .44 Mag.

Walkalong
November 29, 2010, 11:40 PM
Now I am really confused. How does a Lee collet style crimper roll crimp. The one I have (7.62X39 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6258155&postcount=56)) simply presses in 90 degrees on the case mouth like all the other ones I have seen. How is the .45-70 one different?

1858
November 29, 2010, 11:55 PM
Now I am really confused. How does a Lee collet style crimper roll crimp. The one I have (7.62X39) simply presses in 90 degrees on the case mouth like all the other ones I have seen. How is the .45-70 one different?

I use it for 405gr JSP bullets and for 405gr OT lead bullets. It works a little differently on both bullets as you can imagine. With the jacketed bullet, it acts as you mention by squeezing the case mouth into the cannelure leaving that typical ring. For lead bullets with a deeper cannelure, when adjusted properly, it rolls the case mouth into the cannelure and does a very nice job. I use the same die for .45 Colt and .454 Casull with very good results. I need to take some photos but here are some .45 Colt loads that were lightly roll crimped with a Lee FCD.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/redding_45colt.jpg

1858
November 30, 2010, 02:30 AM
OK ... here's a photo of some .45-70 loads that I assembled using the Lee FCD to crimp. I won't put up much of a protest to anyone who says that the roll crimp isn't as nicely radiused as you might typically see but it is a roll crimp of sorts. To the OP, you can see that the cases aren't buckled. Also, the bullet could be seated a few thousandths deeper ... oops. Anyway, carry on!

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/45_70/45-70_roll_crimp.jpg

Walkalong
November 30, 2010, 07:35 AM
I would love to see the collet. Does it have a tapered or rounded spot inside vs flat (parallel) like the bottle necked rifle collet FCD's I have seen? How does the .45-70 FCD work for .45 Colt and .454? Photos please.......:)

243winxb
November 30, 2010, 09:55 AM
:D Walkalong, i think 1858 is using the Pistol version of the FCD, as he also loads .45 Colt and .454 Casull with it. To much difference in case length to be any other way. :confused: :uhoh:http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/dies-crimp.html http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/fcdie.jpg http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/carbide1.jpg

Walkalong
November 30, 2010, 10:01 AM
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe he has both though.

243winxb
November 30, 2010, 10:04 AM
He has me confused also.

scubadown
November 30, 2010, 12:26 PM
Yeah mine definitely does not roll crimp. It evenly presses 360 degrees around the case. I think my problem is I went from 405 gr jacketed bullets to 300 gr lead and I had the FCD set too far down.

It is not from lube as the light dents are evenly spaced around the casing.

1858
November 30, 2010, 01:47 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe he has both though.

Yes, I have Lee FCDs for .45 Colt/.454 Casull (bought two so I don't have to adjust the crimp each time), .357 Mag and .44 Mag. I also have an FCD for .45-70 Govt.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=747243

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/45_70/lee_fcd.jpg

I tried to take some good photos of the split collet's interior crimping ring profile but didn't have much luck. As far as I can tell, the case mouth first encounters a chamfer (maybe 45˚) and then the inside of the collet transitions to a flat where the flats are parallel to the case wall if that makes sense. Both the loads shown above were crimped with Lee FCDs.

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