[WadeWilson]

I bought a new 24/7 OSS 9mm on Saturday. I currently did not have a 9mm and wanted a full sized range gun. I used to have a Millennium Pro, and currently own a TCP and a Rossi 462. I have never had any problems with the brand and always felt they made a pretty good affordable pistol…until today. I took the OSS to the range today, went thought the first mag with no issues. Shot a great group at 15 yards. I changed mags and fired 5 rounds. I had run out of reactive targets so I stopped firing and was going to check my target. I pushed the decocker and BANG! Now I am a stickler for range safety, so I had the gun pointed downrange when it went off, but it still scared the hell out of me. The decoker was firing the rounds. I replicated this malfunction 4 times. I am so disappointed. I know that sometimes this kind of thing happens, but it only takes one malfunction like that to make you lose faith in a brand. I keep thinking, what if I had been in my house?! I usually keep at least one of my handguns hot. Luckily I have a rule about not even loading a firearm until it has some range time to make sure it has no issues. So I wanted to share my experience and also to ask you guys what comes next? Is Taurus customer service ok? What is the turnaround time usually? Thanks guys.

[jad0110]

First off, kudos on following the 4 rules. Even when the AD occurred, no harm came of it (other than perhaps a skipped heatbeat or 3 on your part). Deckocker failures like this are very, very rare. But they do happen. My father used to own a baby Desert Eagle in 9mm, and would always hold the hammer between his fingers when decocking as an additional safety measure.

As for Taurus customer service? They seemed to be good for many years, then they got lousy around 2005 or so. I had a lousy experience back in '06 (gun came back 6 weeks later in worse shape than I sent it). But I've been hearing more positive comments on THR lately, so maybe they are turning things around. Not sure about response time though. I'd check back with the dealer you bought it from, perhaps they'll take care of returning it to Taurus on your behalf. Especially considering this is a pretty severe safety / liability issue for Taurus.

Good luck, please let us know how it goes.

[Ryder]

First time I ever used a decocker was in my house and it was very loud :what: Upon examining the situation I discovered that my thumb hung up on a ledge machined on the side of the dustcover halfway through the swing of the lever and I had only moved it far enough to drop the hammer but not block firing pin. I corrected this by making sure my thumb touched nothing but the lever when I decocked and the problem never recurred.

Could it be you are operating the lever too slowly and it is not fully depressed by the time the hammer drops?

[pfraser]

Ryder, that sounds like a flawed design. Sure the firing pin must be blocked BEFORE the hammer moves?

[o Unforgiven o]

While I can't speak to their CS, that is a very serious problem and I would think they would make it right quickly to CTA.

Glad you're ok, and good job on keeping the muzzle in a safe direction. Oh, and for the record this is a true AD, where the discharge happened through no fault of the shooter.

[WadeWilson]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am going to call Taurus in a few minutes.

[oldbear]

Under the conditions you just described, I believe that a full refund from the shop you bought it at is more than warranted. This is a tragedy law-suite just waiting to happen.

[PT1911]

The trigger is not the decocker...:neener:

Sorry to hear about this issue... very unacceptable and I am a big fan of the 24/7 OSS... Taurus and possibly the shop need to make this right.

[BP Hunter]

Glad you're OK, Man. I can just imagine what would have gone wrong.:what: That decocker was SUPPOSED to be a safety device. You can't really be too safe. Excellent discipline on gun safety!!!

Anyway, I just bought the 24/7 OSS a few weeks ago. It had fired everything I fed it with no FTF or FTE. I only sold it because it shot 3" low. It grouped well though and I shot it accurately, but had to comepnsate for the low shots.

[David E]

First time I ever used a decocker was in my house and it was very loud Upon examining the situation I discovered that my thumb hung up on a ledge machined on the side of the dustcover halfway through the swing of the lever and I had only moved it far enough to drop the hammer but not block firing pin. I corrected this by making sure my thumb touched nothing but the lever when I decocked and the problem never recurred.

I agree, this is an inexcusably egregious design flaw. The hammer shouldn't be able to fall until the firing pin is taken totally out of play.

What make and model was this gun?

[BCRider]

Actually you did TWO things right.

First was aiming the gun in a safe direction while manipulating it. The other was working out and fully exploring your new toy at the range to get to know it and run through all the handling issues of every feature.

[wally]

Ryder, that sounds like a flawed design.

Absolutely, by definition if a gun discharges in the process of manipulating the safety or decocker it is a safety problem of the first magnitude, generally demanding a recall! Design or production defect, its the only way to find out!

There is a known issue with the Taurus Millennium PRO pistol where if the long SA trigger stroke is partially depressed when the safety applied, the gun will fire if you later pull the trigger even though the safety lever is clearly up. You can tell its in this state if you know about it as the trigger does not return fully forward when you remove your finger from the trigger. One can pontificate about needing to have the trigger finger out of the trigger guard before applying the safety, but after much 1911 shooting I reflexively flick the thumb safety up as soon as I've decided not to fire that next shot.

Here are photos, safety is on but gun will fire if trigger is pulled!
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=131327&stc=1&d=1291061210

Here it is in the "proper" position and will not fire if the trigger is pulled unless you push the safety lever down first:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=131328&stc=1&d=1291061303

As you can see its not particularly easy to tell the unsafe state from the safe one! This is my PT140 PRO and I did not discover the issue, but quickly verified mine has it when I first learned of it. Others I've checked at recent gun shows also have it.



Taurus has as far as I can tell ignored the issue but I have not heard of any accidents from it. I noticed my OSS 45 appeared to have fixed it. The OSS 45 may be slightly different from the OSS 25/7 series. I will test the decocker with an empty primed case next time I've got it out of the safe.


I pretty much never use the decocker on a gun that will do cocked and locked, and quit buying DA/SA guns a long time ago as I just don't like the difference between first and second shot. There are classic stories about the Walter P38 failuredumping a mag full auto when the decocker is activated. I don't shoot my P38 much but I always have this potential failure mode in the back of my mind when I do shoot it.

The only real firearm safety is between your ears!

[wally]

Follow up.

My Taurus OSS actually is: PT 24/7 OSS DS in .45ACP and is very early production. I am happy to say that decocking on an empty primed case did not set off the primer in a dozen repeated tries (you can reset the striker without ejecting the case)

Hopefully yours is just a fluke defect, otherwise I hear a recall coming if Taurus has any sense at all!

This was such a potentially serious issue I got off my butt and tested my gun for it at the first opportunity!

[WadeWilson]

Wow Wally, I can’t tell the difference in the safety in either of the two pics! I am glad your OSS functions properly though. I talked with Taurus customer service today and they emailed me a label so I can ship the gun to them. The lady I spoke with was not familiar with a "decocker" and It made me even more upset having to explain it to her. She told me that the techs there would have to inspect the gun and we would go from there. I am beyond Pissed now, after being told the turnaround would be about 4 weeks. To tell you guys the truth; I really don't even want the gun anymore. Even if they fix it and send it back to me, it will always be in the back of my mind. I would try to see if my gun shop will exchange it, but I had him special order it for me. Before I send it back though, I am going to take it back to the range one more time and video it firing on decock. I don’t know why….I just am!
Also, I forgot to mention this in my first post. When you decock the gun and it fires, some part of the safety is working because the slide does not move. The empty casing sits in the chamber until you manually rack it.

[NavyLCDR]

Wow Wally, I can’t tell the difference in the safety in either of the two pics!

It's not the safety, it's the trigger. My PT145 does the same thing. You will notice in the top picture the trigger is slightly farther back than in the bottom picture. You really notice it at the bottom of the trigger. My experience with Taurus has been vary inconsistent. My PT-92 was the best gun I have ever shot. My PT145 - not so much. But it's all I can afford at the moment.

Also, I forgot to mention this in my first post. When you decock the gun and it fires, some part of the safety is working because the slide does not move. The empty casing sits in the chamber until you manually rack it.

I've often wondered what would happen to the PT145 if it fired with the safety engaged since the safety also locks the slide. Pretty brave move to verify that your gun would repeat what happened the first time :what:. I agree that anytime a decocker causes the gun to discharge it is defective, no matter how slowly or incompletely one moves the lever.

[wally]

I've often wondered what would happen to the PT145 if it fired with the safety engaged since the safety also locks the slide.

I doubt anything bad would happen, except maybe breaking the safety lever off its axis pin. The barrel and slide would simply stay locked and you get the full recoil energy instead of that minus what is normally extracted by the slide and recoil spring to load the next round.

I had the link break in a 1911 causing the same net effect, wasn't really noticeable Other than the hammer didn't re-cock and it was very hard to open the slide (had to press down on the barrel hood. I manually cycled a few more rounds just to find out if the gun was truly out of action or not -- it wasn't, I could still get off shots if I kept my cool about manually reloading the gun after each shot.

[FMJMIKE]

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus handguns..............:scrutiny:

[BP Hunter]

This is really scary.

I have owned many Taurus firearms - 24/7 in 9mm, PT 101, Millenium Pro in .45, Model 85 snubbie, PT 1911, and the lastest 24/7 OSS in 9mm. I have traded them all except for the 1911. They were all OK guns, but I traded them for better guns.

[WadeWilson]

If they just fix my gun, I will more than likely trade it back in to my gun shop. I will just pick another 9mm. I hear good things about Glocks here! :neener:

[xr1200]

I almost bought a new taurus last week when looking for a qty. 380 pistol for my small wife. The sales rep at one of the major shops in the south west talked me out of it after telling me they dropped taurus due to all their breakages and problems.

I new taurus had problems, but I thougt they resolved them and cleaned up their act from what I read on other websights.

Sales rep said taurus did have a good guarantee, but who wants a gun that will break, when you need it most.

We ended up buying a new SW 380 body guard with laser, mainly bought due to wifes small hands and her ability to handle it well.

I prefer a good steel DA pistol , like a wather ppk or 38 revolver etc.

[SteelManCM]

During the first year of ownership, Taurus will send you a shipping tag. All you have to do is ask for it. Their CS has definitely stepped it up recently. The turnaround time have gone down, too. Give em a shot to make it right.

[WadeWilson]

I almost bought a new taurus last week when looking for a qty. 380 pistol for my small wife. The sales rep at one of the major shops in the south west talked me out of it after telling me they dropped taurus due to all their breakages and problems.

I new taurus had problems, but I thougt they resolved them and cleaned up their act from what I read on other websights.

Sales rep said taurus did have a good guarantee, but who wants a gun that will break, when you need it most.

We ended up buying a new SW 380 body guard with laser, mainly bought due to wifes small hands and her ability to handle it well.

I prefer a good steel DA pistol , like a wather ppk or 38 revolver etc.
I do have a TCP that has served me well. I like that bodyguard a lot too. Looks like a great gun.

[mrayw]

Help keep an American working,buy made in USA.
Taurus, made in Brazil...

[WadeWilson]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to update the OSS situation. They replaced my gun for me and it came in today. I just got back from the range a few minutes ago. Everything runs perfect in the gun so far. The turnaround was pretty quick. Right now I am considering just keeping it.

[wally]

Glad to hear they handled it well.

[dnlgao]

Keep the gun if they fixed the problem.

I own a 24/7 pro 9mm and the decocker works just fine. the gun has absolutely had no FTE's or FTF's and ive fed all kinds of **** ammo through it. For 300 bucks with 4 mags? Can you beat it?

[bds]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but since this was brought up in another thread, I decided to add to this original thread to clear the air for PT145 with SA/DA trigger - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8176664#post8176664

I've got the old original DAO (non-Pro) model ... Be careful, there is a design flaw in the Millennium Pro models Taurus refuses to acknowledge -- if you apply the thumb safety with the trigger not fully forward the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled even though the safety is on!
wally, I just read through the thread and checked my PT145 (yes, I performed all the operations listed in the thread) BUT I think there are some things that need to be clarified for everyone's benefit (This is THR after all and we should be spreading facts and not "internet rumors").

Since my PT145 has SA/DA trigger, I cannot speak for older DAO trigger models.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=164846&stc=1&d=1337661894

To actually test whether the pistol would fire, I made a modified dummy round with a bullet, no powder charge but a live primer.

1. I chambered the modified dummy round from the magazine to repeat the operations listed in the thread. Because the pistol's trigger went to single-action (SA) mode when the slide was racked (Green arrow striker in the slide is held back to be released by lowering of striker release - green arrow on the frame), when the safety was engaged with the trigger partially pulled back, the striker would not release.

2. The only way the striker can be released on my PT145 with the safety on is by partially pulling the trigger in double-action (DA) mode (Red arrow points to trigger part that pulls back on the striker and releases striker). So with an empty chamber, I pulled the trigger to engage the DA mode and partially pulled back on the trigger while applying the safety.

= Drum roll please =

But because the chamber is empty, being able to release the striker with the safety on would not result in a discharge of a bullet. The only way to load a round in the chamber (either hand chambering a round or feeding from the magazine) is to pull back on the slide that would force the SA trigger mode and we are back to situation #1 above. Since the safety also locks the slide, you would have to disengage the safety to pull back on the slide.

3. Another clarification is whether the striker is "actually" able to hit the primer. With #1 and #2, we already established that a round cannot be chambered and fired with the safety on. However, even if that was possible, engaging the safety limits the trigger bar travel that pushes on the striker pin block (at least on my PT145 - see yellow arrows). If the striker pin block is not pushed up in the slide, releasing the striker would only allow it to hit the block and not the primer. ;) So even if there was a round in the chamber (which the PT145 is not designed to do), there would not be a discharge of a bullet.

Now, if your PT145 with SA/DA trigger does something other than what's outlined in #1, #2 and #3, then I highly recommend that you contact Taurus as your pistol is doing something different than my PT145.

In summary, it is of my opinion that my PT145 with SA/DA (multi-strike) trigger does not have any "design flaw" that would allow it to fire a round with the safety engaged.

[wally]

This is not an "internet myth" I just double checked my Taurus PT140PRO.

Do this at the range:

load two rounds in the mag
fire one and hold the trigger back
let the trigger come forward enough to reset (you can feel a "click" if you go slow) but not enough to go fully forward.
flick up the safety with your thumb and remover your finger from the trigger.
without removing the safety now pull the trigger -- bang!

It is possible Taurus has "silently" fixed the issue in new production, but it was on all the PT1XX PRO models I checked a a gun show after I discovered it several years ago.

I discovered it because as a 1911 shooter I reflexively flick the safety on if I don't plan an immediate follow up shot -- I had cleared the plate rack and had rounds left in the mag and God knows how I noticed the trigger was not fully forward when I sat the pistol down.

[Okiegunner]

Of late. Taurus customer service seems to be much better than in previous years. Hope this is a sign for times to come.

[45crittergitter]

I haven't figured out any reason to decock a loaded 24/7.

[wally]

I haven't figured out any reason to decock a loaded 24/7

The idea is a long DA pull is "safer" than a partially cocked striker on a carry pistol. But then we all know the only real safety is the one between the ears.

[45crittergitter]

The idea is a long DA pull is "safer" than a partially cocked striker on a carry pistol.

Logic would then dictate decocking before every shot. Bummer.

It would also seem to indicate that a cocked 1911, for instance, is out of the question.

Think I'll stick with my original opinion. :rolleyes:

[Trent]

Man, now I gotta go check mine! (Tomorrow when it's light out)

Thanks for the heads up.

[Jim NE]

but it only takes one malfunction like that to make you lose faith in a brand.

To the op, this is a very serious problem , but had it happened on a Ruger or a S&W, would you have lost faith in the brand? Maybe, maybe not.

I think that we all have been somewhat conditioned to think that when a Kimber has a serious failure, it's a malfunction, but when a Taurus has a serious failure, there's something wrong with the brand.

My nearly new S&W just plain stopped working/firing in the middle of my CCW qualifying - extremely humiliating - but had it been a self defense scenario, it would've been deadly.

You're right to be scared, though.

Here's what I'd do -

Get it fixed by Taurus, then get some of the CHEAPO PLASTIC snap caps that have a smooth back end (primer end). These leave a permanent mark on the cap when the gun is fired. Chamber one of these caps and work the decocker like a THOUSAND times. If you see a mark from the pin after all of that, lose confidence.

If not, the problem is likely fixed. JMO.

Best wishes.

[Jim NE]

It is possible Taurus has "silently" fixed the issue in new production

Wally, they fixed that on my PT-145 for what it's worth. Best wishes.

[wally]

Wally, they fixed that on my PT-145 for what it's worth. Best wishes.

I'm really glad to hear that!