Has this ever happened to you?


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cesarv
November 29, 2010, 01:04 AM
My brother-in-law went to The Stockade in Westminster, CA and had an unpleasant experience. He owns 2 guns at the moment, but has owned many firearms over the years. He has an HK USP, and a Springfield XD.

He went to this store to see about buying a new one. He went to the counter and asked to see a gun. The salesman reached into the counter to retrieve the gun and as he did so, he also reached to his own gun and flipped the safety off. I have been to many stores and this is the first time I hear of this. Anybody else had this happen?

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mnrivrat
November 29, 2010, 01:18 AM
No I have not - sounds like a saleman with a loose screw to me.

DasFriek
November 29, 2010, 01:25 AM
Im not a person who has spent many years in gun shops, But a few years anyhow.
But if one did that to me id instantly have a red alert situation in my head and leave, I find that very threatening. And since i carry 24/7 i would not take ANY chance i may have to use my weapon. And id be heading for the door ASAP.
Even tho id bet it would be a 1 in a million chance he was a disgruntled employee or nut job id not stay in that situation.

Most shops in my area all the employees carry im sure, But concealed.
I did run into one shop where the owner did expose his carry weapon when 3 people came into his small shop and was looking at items that people of their type would normally have no interest in. If i was profiling id say they were definitely out of their normal neighborhood.

I could tell the owner got even more tense when his one other employee came to the counter just to "Help".
I felt the tension and knew id never get any real attention if i wanted something and i didn't want to get between the owner and these 3 people and said "Good Luck" and left quickly.

And yes i was on alert for my own safety and mentally aware and prepared.

Tim the student
November 29, 2010, 02:06 AM
No.

Nomad, 2nd
November 29, 2010, 02:18 AM
No.


I'd speak to the owner.

sappyg
November 29, 2010, 07:45 AM
no. but if it did i think i would just leave.

Nathanael_Greene
November 29, 2010, 07:54 AM
Hasn't happened to me...and I wouldn't go back to a place where it did.

heeler
November 29, 2010, 07:57 AM
That guys paranoia is so high it would be my luck he would go over the edge and shoot me.
If some sales guy did that to me and I would turn around and walk out of there pronto,never to return.
What a friggin wingnut.

Carl N. Brown
November 29, 2010, 08:00 AM
Never happened to me.

Very few gun shops around here even have armed employees (I believe locally most business insurance companies specify no privately armed employees, bonded security only).

I would leave and I would send a written complaint to the owner, all factual and no histrionics. (My first impulse would be to contact a lawyer and file a "to whom it may concern" affadavit with the courthouse describing the incident, just in case that shop does have a shooting incident.)

Sounds absolutely loony tunes to me.

PT1911
November 29, 2010, 08:05 AM
Not justifying his actions in the slightest as that is completely unacceptable.. but I have heard of more than one instance of a customer asking to see a gun, clearing it as we all do, then dropping a loose round in the chamber and proceeding to rob the shop/shoot the salesman. My assumption is he took one of these stories to heart or had a close call.

PRM
November 29, 2010, 08:05 AM
No

But I would have had to ask why they did that. Are they planning on shooting me because I am a customer. You could have done that in a light, non-threatening manner. Bet you would have got some half baked reason.

At a minimum, I would contact the owner if they are not the same person.

sansone
November 29, 2010, 08:07 AM
not normal.. proper response is to leave and call the store's owner. He would not want customers frightened away by a crazy employee. If that guy WAS the owner, don't ever go back. // In the past I would wear my BHP visible, partially because knowledgable customers would want to drool over it. Now I carry concealed in the store because I noticed wives sometimes would stare at the open carry with concerned eyes.

hardluk1
November 29, 2010, 10:37 AM
I would have called the law first and let them have a heart to heart.

MrOldLude
November 29, 2010, 10:44 AM
edit: read that one wrong.

Yeah, I'd have an issue with the salesman.

Claude Clay
November 29, 2010, 11:00 AM
I would turn around and walk out

i would NOT turn around.....

i would back out of the store and maintain eye contact. that was a hostile motion and i would later call the owner. if he is the owner, i would tell him why i left after i was gone and why i will not be back; nor will i recommend his business to friends.

the independent gun stores by me all have their employees open carry.

its possible you look or were dressed like someone he has a past with?
or he aint right for that job.

CraigC
November 29, 2010, 11:02 AM
I wonder what the other side of this story is? Is your brother in law a seedy looking character that wears his hat sideways and baggy britches under his butt?

Regardless of his reasoning, I would NOT patronize a shop that treated me as such but I'm not a suspicious looking character either. If it did happen, I would ask the salesman exactly what he thought he was doing and inform him that he just lost a customer, for life.


I would have called the law first and let them have a heart to heart.
For what reason??? Last I checked, it was not against the law to flick a safety off and even though this is odd and suspicious behavior, it does not constitute a threat.

rondog
November 29, 2010, 11:07 AM
I say it's unacceptable too, but I also have to wonder what's happened in that store before, what kind of area it's in, and I also have to wonder what/who your BIL looks like. If he looks like an unsavory character, I'd be very cautious too.

Zombiphobia
November 29, 2010, 11:09 AM
maybe he's been robbed before, or had ppl try to walk out with the guns.

kaferhaus
November 29, 2010, 11:11 AM
The guy to me is a typical local gunshop employee... a moron.

Most small shop owners are nice enough, but the folks that work at most of them are in my experience a bit weird.

That's likely because the pay is horrid, usually no benefits at all.. but a job like that still draws the "wing nuts" as one poster put it.

Ever notice also that those same guys are "know it alls" who actually know little to nothing about what comes out of their mouths...?

There are only about 6-7 local gun shops around here and I'll only do business with one of them. All her help (yes her, and she's a smart cookie and knows her business) are older guys that have retired from some sort of "real job that you could actually support yourself at" The guys, while maybe not "pros" are reasonably knowledgeable and if they don't know the answer to a question they find it, instead of trying to blow smoke up a customers behind.

Nushif
November 29, 2010, 11:27 AM
I'd have asked. Which is my usual MO in cases that well err .... confuse me.

I would have stood there, not touched the gun he put out and asked him straight up: "What's that for?" or "What are you doing?"

I know the wife hates it when I do that, but nine times out of ten, people realize that I am seldomly a threat.

jcwit
November 29, 2010, 11:32 AM
Nope, never had that happen to me.

With that said, I do wonder what your BIL looks like, might be just a little cautious profiling.

I wasn't there.

jcwit
November 29, 2010, 11:37 AM
Ever notice also that those same guys are "know it alls" who actually know little to nothing about what comes out of their mouths...?



Right, and after 50 plus years in the retail business, and the last 20 with my own business, I also realized how little I knew about the products I was selling and how the customer always knew everything and all specs about what I had for sale.

Arrogance works both ways.

cleardiddion
November 29, 2010, 12:17 PM
Never.
I'd demand to speak to the manager and inform him that that sort of behavior is unacceptable and that he would never see a dime from me.

Robert Wilson
November 29, 2010, 12:35 PM
The Stockade is an awful gunshop, with arrogant, ignorant employees and extremely high prices. The owner is a decent fellow but is rarely there, and the manager is the biggest jerk in the place.

Part of the problem, in their defense, is their location. It's not exactly South Central, but it's still not a very nice neighborhood. In my experience there is usually at least one gang banger type in there at all times, and the mood in place is often kind of tense.

So while it's entirely possible that the OP's story depicts the exact truth, it's also possible that the poster's BIL came in with "gangster" written all over him and got everybody's hackles up. And it's also possible that the 300 pound salesman needs a better gunbelt, and his effort to keep his pants on was misinterpreted as hostile. It's frankly kind of hard for me to imagine someone responding to a customer - even the scariest possible customer - by disengaging the safety of a holstered gun. I don't have the best imagination, though...

joe_security
November 29, 2010, 02:08 PM
I knew a guy who was killed running a gunshop in the Chicago suburbs, back in the 80s.
A young man asked to see an "el cheapo" 25acp pocket pistol. The young man brought his own loaded magazine. He killed the owner, on the sidewalk in front of the store. Yes I know, he never should have followed him out there. The offender did not get far. Several locals caught the young man, holding him on the hood of a car until LE arrived to take him away. Most of the LGS I frequent, several staffers open carry while working in the store. They never move a hand to a holstered weapon while waiting on the customers. They want to make a sale .

M-Cameron
November 29, 2010, 02:16 PM
i wonder how the clerk would have reacted if your brother in also law also flipped the safety off on his carry piece.......im willing to bet it wouldnt be well received.

that comes off to me as a sign of aggression, and i wouldnt even want to handle the gun that guy pulled out for fear that i might inadvertently do something to startle him and end up with a gun in my face.

is there a risk of robbery when selling guns.....well yes of course.......but im willing to bet more gas stations get robbed in a week than gun stores in a year....and yet the guy at the gas station doesn't treat me like a threat when i go in to pay for my gas.

K-Rod
November 29, 2010, 02:39 PM
It was a "Power Play". Like the people that play Rambo & have never been the the Military or the Security Guard that couldnt pass the exams to be a LEO.

A shop here has one of those "Wing Nuts" (great term!) as well. You walk in with your AR to have some work done & this Ex-Marine gets all puffed up talking "weapon this & side arm that" or "15 years in the Corps I could tear that down & back blindfolded in 45secs" (insert grabbing crotch & sniffing here). Come to find out the "Wing Nut" served his whole term in Santitation!!!

Maybe the guy has past issues with customers. Maybe he's over cautious. "Wing Nut" definately. More than likely this guy gets off by makng people think he's a "Tough Guy". "Dont mess with me! I got a gun! See, I flipped off the saftey!" Like the person who can carry concealed but carries in the open. People like this make me think their "Wing Nuts" looking for trouble. I NEVER carry open. I don't need the unwanted attention & if I can't get to it if need be (pray to god everyday I don't) then I shouldn't be carrying anyways. It's things lie this that "Gun Haters" look for. Be responsible & safe. Promote your sport & don't do anything that may shead ill light on it. It's "Wing Nuts" like these that's going to ruin it for us all. Thank God I live in N. Idaho!

Mike J
November 29, 2010, 03:19 PM
I would not patronize that shop. I would also make the shop owner/manager aware of why I was taking my business elsewhere. That salesman has problems.

Corporal K
November 29, 2010, 03:48 PM
No, but years ago I was in a gun store in Baton Rouge where all of the employees were carrying openly. I was browsing around when two of the employees started having a minor disagreement about where to stock something or other. One of them pulled his gun, stuck it in the belly of the other and said something like "I win! Ha ha!".

I was off like a prom dress and never went back.

MrOldLude
November 29, 2010, 04:28 PM
Salesman should switch to a Glock, as there's no safety to flip off.

ForumSurfer
November 29, 2010, 04:55 PM
I would speak to the manager. The manager would likely be unaware of such practices, and be highly upset over something that is easily viewed as hostility towards potential customers.

cesarv
November 29, 2010, 05:02 PM
So while it's entirely possible that the OP's story depicts the exact truth, it's also possible that the poster's BIL came in with "gangster" written all over him and got everybody's hackles up. And it's also possible that the 300 pound salesman needs a better gunbelt, and his effort to keep his pants on was misinterpreted as hostile. It's frankly kind of hard for me to imagine someone responding to a customer - even the scariest possible customer - by disengaging the safety of a holstered gun. I don't have the best imagination, though...
Not gangster/thug-looking at all. His clothes are fitted and not sagging. He is a 42 year old man and he owns and operates his own Limo company, so his attire is always proper and his speech is not improper, either.

He thought it was discrimination because he is black, and the guy behind the counter was white. I told him to contact the owner and ask him if it was his store policy to do this every time a potential customer asks to see a gun.

dagger dog
November 29, 2010, 05:08 PM
Who in their right mind would ever rob that guys store?

Every one in my home area has at least 4 clerks toting their iron open or "concealed" iron, (Hey are you happy to see me or is that a Glock in your pocket ?).

I really can't see wearing a hand gun as a status symbol, most clerk types do and that's why I would stay away from that shop, the clerk has a SCREW LOOSE!

Asherdan
November 29, 2010, 07:56 PM
That ain't policy, that's a salesman who needs a talking too, at the least.

Fowlers has the Stockade in Westminster and the Gun Room in Orange, CA. They are great to have around because stores that have a reasonable inventory of reloading components and tools are in short supply in SoCal. Their prices can be a little high on rifles and handguns, some of their staff can be a little aloof/snobby/whatever, but on the whole I've been treated fine in both locations.

Some of their staff does carry, but I've gotten used to that in many gun stores in CA. and it has never been an issue. Last time I bought a gun from them, at the Gun Room, me and the sales guys chatted while I pulled the bolt and looked it over before making a deal and it was cordial.

I'm just like the guy the OP describes, 42, male and professional, except for black. I'd call the store manager and clue him in and I would've walked out.

Hatterasguy
November 29, 2010, 10:15 PM
No, and in a lot of gun shops around here they open carry.

rozziboy18
November 29, 2010, 10:29 PM
no, never. you will get yourself shot in these parts for that.

jerkface11
November 29, 2010, 10:38 PM
If he honestly thought your brother was a threat why hand him the gun? Sounds like he just like intimidating people.

jhco50
November 30, 2010, 04:30 AM
Some of you are trying to make excuses for the salesman. He was wrong, seriously wrong and what he did could be construed as a what in Colorado would be breaking the law. You are not allowed to make threatening displays like he did.

KodeFore
November 30, 2010, 04:51 AM
It sounds like a show force, sending a message. If you actually plan on drawing there is plenty of time to disengage a manual safety during the draw. I aggree with the above who say he should have left the shop imediatly and called or wrote to the owner and asked about the store policy on that. Not a place I would feel like spending my shooting $ in.

Davek1977
November 30, 2010, 06:57 AM
Some of you are trying to make excuses for the salesman. He was wrong, seriously wrong and what he did could be construed as a what in Colorado would be breaking the law. You are not allowed to make threatening displays like he did. While I am most certainly NOT saying what the clerk did was "ok" in any fashion, prosecuting such an action as a threatening display would be difficult at best, Colorado or elsewhere...essentially, he put his gun in a condition to fire while still holstered. In that respect, his firerm is in a condition no different than a revolver or a semi-auto pistol, round chambered, without a manual safety, and many people carry these weapons in that fashion. While I can certainly undersatand FEELING threatened under the circumstances, prosecuting such an action would be touchy at best. I undertstand the sentiments of the posters who were made uncomfortable by this situation, as I too would be. However, imo, it wasn't a criminal offense, just someone being a bit "weird"....to the point I'd refuse to shop there

bonza
November 30, 2010, 12:07 PM
If he honestly thought your brother was a threat why hand him the gun? Sounds like he just like intimidating people.

Bingo!! A business has every right to refuse service to someone. If the customer appears suspicious don't give him the gun in the first place. There is no reason at all to be so openly aggressive in such a situation.....it could only make things worse. I've found most of the LGS employees around here open carry, & most of them that do also seem to be the 'mall ninja' type who are trying to look the part by flaunting their assumed authority. I've worked in the firearms business (retail/wholesale) for about ten years in the past & never had the desire/need to open carry, though I did concealed carry when I was working at one store, but that wasn't so much because of the customers as much as my walk to the bus stop after work in the evening took me through a less desireable area. And, yes, I have declined to show customers a gun, usually due to them being intoxicated or, seemingly, mentally deficient, & always had the support of my managers in doing so.

Robert Wilson
November 30, 2010, 02:04 PM
If I'm "defending" the salesman it's only insofar as I just have an awfully hard time accepting the story at face value. If I'm wrong, then I sincerely apologize to the OP, but I still can scarcely imagine someone reacting to a threat - real or perceived - by taking the safety off of a holstered gun and then handing a weapon to the threatening person.

At least with the guns and holsters I use, it would be almost impossible for someone to see me manipulating the safety while holstered. After all, the thumb would be hidden between the gun and my side/back. Perhaps if I had an ambi safety a very observant viewer would note it moving, but with most guns it would be about impossible to see the difference between me grabbing the gun to move it into a more comfortable position and me grabbing the gun to take it off safe.

My bet? The OP's BIL asked to see a gun. The salesman bent over to retrieve it from the case and his pants headed south. He grabbed his gun/holster/belt to get everything back where it belongs and the BIL interpreted that as hostile. Again, I could be wrong, but Occam's Razor and all...

Arkansas Paul
November 30, 2010, 05:14 PM
No, it's never happened to me. I promise you it wouldn't ever happen twice in the same shop either.

jcwit
November 30, 2010, 06:22 PM
It really amazes how so many folks know exactly how they would react with no knowledge of any of the circumstances or what was going on at all. None of them were there, but all can spout off as to just what they'd do.

Glad our courts aren't run this way.

rondog
November 30, 2010, 06:27 PM
Glad our courts aren't run this way.

You mean, they're not?

jcwit
November 30, 2010, 06:50 PM
Thats what I ment, yup, facts are presented to the jury, or did you forget that fact?

Sauer Grapes
November 30, 2010, 07:11 PM
I've seen shops with very strict dress codes and cell phone policies. I was in a range\gun shop where an employee told a guy to take his hoody off and take his hands out of his pockets. I thought that was kinda stupid. I talked to the guy after the employee walked away and it turned out this guy just graduated from West Point and was going to buy a handgun for his wife to keep in the house for HD. They lost a sale that day.

I was going to talk to the owner or manager, but decided not to stick my nose where it didn't belong. I have never been back to that place ever since that day.

jeepguy
November 30, 2010, 07:51 PM
i think the clerk has issues, and i would have left right away. i see no reasons for his actions.

Gouranga
November 30, 2010, 08:03 PM
At every shop near me with the exception of the box stores you can count on the staff OCing. IMO, this is clerk a psycho. Assuming this went down exactly as the OP stated.

First, he would have to assume thew BIL was a threat. So he hands him a gun? Yeah that makes sense.

Second, if I am faced with a threat, I am not showing my piece, I am not flicking off the safety, I am not showing my hand in any way, shape, or form. When my hand grabs any part of my firearm it is taking it out of the holster to address a lethal threat.

Even at a gun store I would not buy crap from a man who acts in that manner. I would talk to the owner. If he was the owner, I would have a word with the police. Sooner or later he is going to shoot someone.

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