Bare with me here...


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TheNewbie
November 29, 2010, 01:38 AM
The questions I'm about to ask are related to curiosities that I had come up thanks to a video game. Yes, I know its not real; I know its full of inaccuracies and more, but there's no harm in expanding my knowledge and getting the finer details of the situation by asking to satisfy my curiosity.

The first question is related to revolvers. I know that, in general, the kick from a revolver has more affect on the accuracy of the weapon than that of a semi-automatic due to the position of the barrel and its end not only in front of the hand but ABOVE it as well. In the game in question there's a modification for a colt python revolver which converts it to a snub-nose and increases accuracy while lessening the damage it deals. I can understand the damage, the barrel not being long enough and giving the bullet less time to build up 'steam' with full force behind it, but how would a shorter barrel make a gun more accurate? Wouldn't less of a barrel mean a lighter gun and, thus, more recoil? I'd like to hear opinions on the matter.

The second is involving something which I'm certain I know the facts of. Once again, game related, there is the choice of an M1911 side-arm and a Makarov side-arm. Thus, a .45 ACP and 9mm Parabellum/9mmx18 Makarov respectively. What bugged me instantly was that the Makarov not only was more accurate but also did more damage. I'm pretty sure that a .45 ACP is a larger and more powerful round than a 9mm, but am I wrong in thinking it? If I remember correctly the rounds are somewhat close in size (being 9mm, .40 S&W, and then .45 ACP from smallest to largest), but I could be wrong altogether. Any light to shed on the subject?

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Skribs
November 29, 2010, 01:46 AM
The first question is related to revolvers. I know that, in general, the kick from a revolver has more affect on the accuracy of the weapon than that of a semi-automatic due to the position of the barrel and its end not only in front of the hand but ABOVE it as well. In the game in question there's a modification for a colt python revolver which converts it to a snub-nose and increases accuracy while lessening the damage it deals. I can understand the damage, the barrel not being long enough and giving the bullet less time to build up 'steam' with full force behind it, but how would a shorter barrel make a gun more accurate? Wouldn't less of a barrel mean a lighter gun and, thus, more recoil? I'd like to hear opinions on the matter.

Shorter barrel also means slower bullet, which means less accurate bullet. You are right though, that it increases recoil to have a shorter barrel. Although I've found revolvers to have less felt recoil than a semi-auto, simply because they weigh more.


The second is involving something which I'm certain I know the facts of. Once again, game related, there is the choice of an M1911 side-arm and a Makarov side-arm. Thus, a .45 ACP and 9mm Parabellum/9mmx18 Makarov respectively. What bugged me instantly was that the Makarov not only was more accurate but also did more damage. I'm pretty sure that a .45 ACP is a larger and more powerful round than a 9mm, but am I wrong in thinking it? If I remember correctly the rounds are somewhat close in size (being 9mm, .40 S&W, and then .45 ACP from smallest to largest), but I could be wrong altogether. Any light to shed on the subject?

It's a video game. In COD4, the M16 does 40-30 damage (point blank - long range), while the M4 and G36C do 30-20 damage each. They all use 5.56x45mm ammo. The M21, R700, and M82 all do 70 damage, regardless of range, when an M82 would realistically do significantly more. In Half Life, the Franchi SPAS-12 is a double-barreled shotgun, and it must have an invisible magazine.

InkEd
November 29, 2010, 01:58 AM
I won't BARE with you on anything! (I'm married and just don't go "that way.")

I will bear with you on the video game questions. My response is you answered your own question. Video games are full of inaccurate and just plain wrong attributes given to firearms. The Makarov is chambered in 9x18mm and the 1911 is chambered in .45acp.
The shorter barrel on the revolver will increase recoil and reduce
accuracy.

WeedWacker
November 29, 2010, 02:07 AM
Yeah, those stats in Black Ops bug me too ;)

The sights on the revolver don't line up correctly either, the front sight is waaaay too high to be in alignment for consistent shooting.

RS14
November 29, 2010, 02:11 AM
I'm sorry, but there's just not any real logic to it most of the time. At best it will be based on something somewhat reasonable, like muzzle energy, but most of the time it's set only by what makes a balanced game. Thus you get absurdities like a minigun (in Team Fortress 2) firing rounds less damaging than those from the weakest pistol in the game.

Or the developers decide that every weapon needs some utility, so they make the basic pistol accurate to make up for the low rate of fire.

Or you get values based on what's cool, e.g. the devastating Red Ryder Limited Edition BB-gun from Fallout.

Spec ops Grunt
November 29, 2010, 02:28 AM
I like to think of the increased accuracy stat as more of a "better handling in small spaces" stat for the snubbie.


As for the Makarov, I think the stats are wrong on damage. (not the first time in a COD game) From my experience, the 1911 does slightly more damage, actually, I can't really tell that much of a difference in damage between all the pistols, with the exception of the Python.

CZsp01
November 29, 2010, 02:29 AM
HAHA I realized the same thing

Skribs
November 29, 2010, 03:20 AM
Yeah, RS14 I was just thinking about that. In HL2, you have a pulse rifle and an MP7, but the USP 9mm is more accurate than either of them. Okay, so we don't have pulse rifles IRL, but I'd think it would be better than what we got now, especially if you're comparing it to a pistol.

o Unforgiven o
November 29, 2010, 03:25 AM
Well the damage/accuracy stats in video games bug me too, butthe thing that annoys me the most is when you reload with on still in the chamber you only have say 30 when you sould have 31. :scrutiny:

Skribs
November 29, 2010, 03:57 AM
Unforgiven, in video games they usually charge the weapon again, which would expend the 1 that was in the chamber. It's not a flaw in weapon realism, but its a flaw with the weapon operator.

I'd be more concerned with having 15/30 rounds in your magazine, and 18 rounds left, and a reload gives you 30/30 rounds in your magazine. Shoot 3 rounds and you can reload and have a 30 round magazine. It makes some sense in the HL series, since I think the guns are stored through a portal (which is why they reload automatically when holstered), but other than that it doesn't make much sense at all.

InkEd
November 29, 2010, 09:27 AM
You have multiple LIVES in most video games too. So, I don't find it shocking that the gun stats are not correct.

While on the subject of guns for video games, I haven't seriously played them much in years. (Had a PS2 right after college BUT it was mostly used as DVD player.) Last year, I purchased my wife a Nintendo Wii for Christmas, that she " just HAD to have" because the coffee table wasn't collecting enough dust?

Anyway, I saw in a Bass Pro catalog some hunting games that uses a "rifle" or other "gun" instead of a regular controller like XBOX and PS. I was wondering if they made in war/shoot 'em up games that used a little toy gun for the Wii? I would prefer "real guns" over "ray guns" but either will work. I don't want to have to use a controller to control every little move the guy makes like HALO. A simple game that I can play just to kill a little time is all I want for it. Do they still make those kind of games? I really liked the old Lethal Enforcers, Mad Dog McCree and even the Aerosmith type game the best. Any help?
If this is drifting too OT for the mods, feel free to PM me with suggestions.

wh!plash
November 29, 2010, 09:39 AM
I've been playing Black Ops for a while now too.

The weapons are all over the place, nowhere near as realistic as CoD4 was. CoD4 wasn't perfect, but it was the best we've had as far as video games go.

The 1911 is the weakest and least accurate pistol? Cuban soldiers carrying suppressed FALs with ACOG scopes in the 1960's? Looking at this crap list of ancient submachine guns, and the MP5 is the throw-away? To me there's no way that a FAL should be better than an M14 in every aspect, given both being semi-auto.

Just so you know though, the full-auto CZ really did exist.

Sam1911
November 29, 2010, 09:55 AM
I think your questions are more or less answered.

These are games. They tend to get more wrong than right. Especially when they try to apply credits and deficits to various firearms which are no where near so different in real life.

All that said, we really don't do video game threads -- which this has not risen above being.

If you want to ask very specific questions about revolver barrel length, post a question on that in the revolvers forum.

If you really feel the need to ask whether a 9x18 Makarov is either more accurate or more powerful than a .45ACP 1911, then do so in the autoloaders forum.

Thanks.

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