Extended NICS delay.


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bsctov
December 1, 2010, 10:43 AM
I'm sorry to be making another thread about this, but I'm not quite sure what to do or if theres anything I even can do.

I purchased a rifle from dick's sporting goods because I had left over gift cards and they were running a great sale at my local store, so I fill out the paperwork and he calls in the NICS check and it comes back "Delayed", no big deal I thought since I ALWAYS get delayed then proceeded 24 hours later due to a restraining order I had against me that was filed based on false accusations.

But today is the 3rd business day and I haven't heard back from them yet, and I called yesterday and the guy said they are still waiting on the approval and they will not transfer without a NICS proceed, he said it was store policy and he wishes he could do something about it but he advised me to wait.

I called the FBI NICS operations center and got a rude, tired lady on the phone who refused to help, saying nothing could be done unless I was "Denied", I asked "What if nics never calls the FFL back again regarding my purchase?" and she said "I don't know".
:banghead:


I had the dealer call and they just say the transaction is still "Delayed"

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Old Fuff
December 1, 2010, 10:53 AM
Maybe the long Thanksgiving weekend has something to do with this.

kyhuntsman94
December 1, 2010, 11:04 AM
I would be patient in this case. Don't cal back for a week or so to give them time to process the request. There may be a backup due to the holiday, there usually is, and they may be sufferiing systems or network issues. Regardless, you do not want ot make a pest out of yourself. That could backfire on you BIGTIME!

I can tell you that while the squeaky wheel gets the attention, it is not always the attention one wants.

bsctov
December 1, 2010, 11:17 AM
Backfire how, exactly?

NavyLCDR
December 1, 2010, 11:30 AM
Tell Dick's to transfer the gun to you or give you your money back. They have no legal right to keep your money because this is only a delay, not a denial, and they have the ability and option to transfer the gun to you after three business days. If they CHOOSE to not transfer the gun to you, it's their choice, and they are on the hook to give you a full refund. I would make a total stink at Dick's until either the gun is transferred to you or you have your money back.

Dick's is named Dick's for a reason, BTW.

I wouldn't bother with calling NICS until the delay turns into a denial. If it gets denied, all bets are off, including your refund, until your appeal with NICS is done.

waterhouse
December 1, 2010, 11:43 AM
On what date did you attempt to purchase the firearm?

bsctov
December 1, 2010, 11:44 AM
I initially filled out the 4473 and made the purchase on November 26th.

NavyLCDR
December 1, 2010, 11:47 AM
You are one day too early.

(B) "Delayed" response, if
the NICS search finds a record
that requires more research to
determine whether the prospective
transferee is disqualified
from possessing a firearm by
Federal or State law. A "Delayed"
response to the FFL indicates
that the firearm transfer
should not proceed pending receipt
of a follow-up "Proceed"
response from the NICS or the
expiration of three business
days (exclusive of the day on
which the query is made),
whichever occurs first. (Example:
An FFL requests a NICS
check on a prospective firearm
transferee at 9:00 a.m. on Friday
and shortly thereafter receives
a "Delayed" response
from the NICS. If State offices in
the state in which the FFL is located
are closed on Saturday
and Sunday and open the following
Monday, Tuesday, and
Wednesday, and the NICS has
not yet responded with a "Proceed"
or "Denied" response, the
FFL may transfer the firearm at
12:01 a.m. Thursday.)

bsctov
December 1, 2010, 11:49 AM
Oh, wasn't aware of "exclusive of the day on
which the query is made".

Not like it matters anyways, they won't transfer it after 3 days. I just want the darn rifle :(

NavyLCDR
December 1, 2010, 11:51 AM
Not like it matters anyways, they won't transfer it after 3 days.

That is a true statement, because they are Dick's. But you will have to wait until tomorrow to start the stink.

bsctov
December 1, 2010, 11:52 AM
I'm in the process of doing the Voluntary appeal file stuff, going to get fingerprinted tomorrow at the local pd. Hopefully the UPIN will stop this crazy non-sense.

Captcurt
December 1, 2010, 11:55 AM
I am new at this so if any of you old timers can prove me wrong, feel free to do so. If I am reading my Federal Firearms Regulations Referance Guide correctly, the gun can be transfered to you after it is delayed 3 full business days. (page 220, Section 25.6(c)(1)(iv)(B). If they called it in on Saturday you can pick it up on Thursday. If it was called in on Monday , it can transfer on Friday. (Per chart on page 221).

I ran 3 NICS checks yesterday and they went thru in 30 seconds.

bsctov
December 1, 2010, 11:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoMmDg4Bd0U


I found this nifty NICS video in case anyone is interested and/or bored.

hopefully they are just backed up with delays from the holiday weekend.

Carlos Cabeza
December 1, 2010, 11:59 AM
I thought it was a 5 day wait ....????? Don't sweat it, happens all the time.
I should have a file folder at my local dealer since I still have EVERY firearm I have ever purchased, yet I am delayed EVERY time. Be patient......

bsctov
December 1, 2010, 12:00 PM
I bought a shotgun before, and i was delayed and then proceeded the following day, thats the only reason this concerns me.

waterhouse
December 1, 2010, 12:13 PM
I thought it was a 5 day wait ....????? Don't sweat it, happens all the time.

They call it a 3 day wait, but in most cases it turns into 5 days. They define a NICS Day as a 24 hour period beginning at 12:01 a.m. the day after the check was made, and business days don't include weekends or Holidays. You may then pick your gun up on the day after the "3 day window."

If there are no holidays, and you buy on a Monday, 3 days start on Tuesday at 12:01 a.m. and runs through Thursday night. If your dealer is open, you could pick your gun up after 12:01 on Friday morning, but generally have to wait until 9 am when the dealer opens.

Any time a weekend breaks the 3 days up the wait gets longer, so if you attempt to buy a gun on Wednesday the shop can't give you the gun until the next Tuesday.

I bought a shotgun before, and i was delayed and then proceeded the following day, thats the only reason this concerns me.

You bought a gun on the busiest shopping day of the year, so as you suspected they are probably behind on their checks. The Dick's policy sucks, but there is no point in complaining about it until they open tomorrow and won't transfer your gun.

Bubbles
December 1, 2010, 01:07 PM
I am new at this so if any of you old timers can prove me wrong, feel free to do so. If I am reading my Federal Firearms Regulations Referance Guide correctly, the gun can be transfered to you after it is delayed 3 full business days. (page 220, Section 25.6(c)(1)(iv)(B). If they called it in on Saturday you can pick it up on Thursday. If it was called in on Monday , it can transfer on Friday. (Per chart on page 221).
Legally an FFL can transfer the firearm to the purchaser on the third business day if NICS returns "Delayed". This provision was put into the Brady Law so that FedGov couldn't arbitrarily halt all sales from dealers by delaying everybody indefinitely.

While many FFL's do the transfer on the third day, the larger chain stores will usually not transfer the gun until given the go-ahead.

That said, we have one customer who was delayed six months ago, and we're still waiting for a response...

BP Hunter
December 1, 2010, 01:51 PM
I would apply for an VAF. My first few purchases were delayed but always porceeded to the next morning. Since I havd had my UPIN, I always walk out if the store with my new toy.

bsctov
December 2, 2010, 02:05 PM
No call yet, doesn't look like they will be calling back.


I am absolutely livid, even more so after reading an FBI NICS operations report which said that in 2008, only 20% of delays which lasted longer than 3 days were eventually resolved.

NavyLCDR
December 2, 2010, 02:45 PM
Time to get your money back from Dick's.

bsctov
December 2, 2010, 02:57 PM
I just called the manager and asked them to call NICS and get the status of the transaction. He told me that they could not because they would be "Fined" for calling NICS again.

I explained to him that they were not allowed to "Re-run" a check because they are valid for 30 days but they could inquire about the process of a check by pressing 2 and supplying the NTN. He said, "I don't know about that" and said he would "Talk to the lodge guy but he wasn't sure and that he would call me back tonight" (Which I am almost positive he won't do.)

I'm going to wait until tomorrow and see if anything happens, if not, I'm going to ask for a full refund. If they refuse, my next call will be to the BATFE alerting them of the FFL that took my money and did not transfer my gun even though he was legally able to do so, and my next call will be to american express requesting a chargeback.

dogtown tom
December 2, 2010, 03:44 PM
bsctov I just called the manager and asked them to call NICS and get the status of the transaction. He told me that they could not because they would be "Fined" for calling NICS again.
He's correct.

bsctov I explained to him that they were not allowed to "Re-run" a check because they are valid for 30 days but they could inquire about the process of a check by pressing 2 and supplying the NTN. He said, "I don't know about that" and said he would "Talk to the lodge guy but he wasn't sure and that he would call me back tonight" (Which I am almost positive he won't do.)
At one time the FBI allowed dealers to call NICS to check on the progress of a "Delayed" response. They no longer allow this: (see the top of page 9)
http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2008-11.pdf


bsctov ....my next call will be to the BATFE alerting them of the FFL that took my money and did not transfer my gun even though he was legally able to do so...
Per Federal law, the dealer is under no obligation to transfer you the firearm until NICS responds with a "Proceed". ATF will remind you of this.

You chose to purchase at Dick's where their long time company policy is "no transfer without a Proceed". You also knew you were likely to get a Delay.

IMHO, you should have made sure of Dick's policy before setting yourself up for aggravation.

SpaceFrank
December 2, 2010, 04:01 PM
I'm just surprised they took your money before doing the background check. Academy won't sell the gun without a Proceed either, but they also don't take your money until you get a Proceed. Does Dick's charge for the background check?

I'm curious about the UPIN. I know what it is, but what's the process for getting one?

bsctov
December 2, 2010, 04:24 PM
dogtown tom, that article doesn't say that anywhere,You are misunderstanding it. I guess option 2 on the automated system is just there to fake the FFLs out :P

Well I finally got my rifle just 15 minutes ago, turns out no one ever called me back to tell me I was proceeded later THAT SAME DAY and when I had called them to ask what the status was I was told "DELAYED" even though the 4473 I just saw has "PROCEED 11/26/2010" written on it. The NICS lady refused to give me any information but was strongly hinting for me to go back to the store and see what was up, Now I understand why...

Unbelievable.

dogtown tom
December 2, 2010, 10:29 PM
bsctov dogtown tom, that article doesn't say that anywhere,You are misunderstanding it. I guess option 2 on the automated system is just there to fake the FFLs out :P
Option 2 is used when NICS has attempted to contact the dealer regarding a previous transaction.

For example:
You are "delayed" on your purchase. The FBI NICS may attempt to contact me the next day to update your status. If I am not available or the phone rolls over to voice mail then NICS will not leave a message, only their callback number. I then would call NICS, choose Option 2 and get the updated status of your transaction.

mgkdrgn
December 3, 2010, 09:27 PM
I am new at this so if any of you old timers can prove me wrong, feel free to do so. If I am reading my Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide correctly, the gun can be transferred to you after it is delayed 3 full business days.

The key word there is =can=, not =must=.

I believe Dicks has a polity to never go forward with transfer of a firearm unless they have a "proceed". I have a "delay" from last April that I =never= heard back on. Guy got his Mosin on the 4th day ... that is my policy. :)

PT1911
December 3, 2010, 09:34 PM
if after the 3rd business day the FFL has not heard back from NICS then they have no obligation to keep you from picking up YOUR gun.. if they refuse to do so, then get YOUR money back...

NavyLCDR
December 3, 2010, 10:27 PM
if after the 3rd business day the FFL has not heard back from NICS then they have no obligation to keep you from picking up YOUR gun.. if they refuse to do so, then get YOUR money back...

Absolutely +1!

It is also reported that Dick's won't sell rifles/shotguns to out of state residents, even if it is a C&R gun and the person has the C&R FFL.

TH3180
December 3, 2010, 11:16 PM
I would be patient in this case. Don't cal back for a week or so to give them time to process the request. There may be a backup due to the holiday, there usually is, and they may be sufferiing systems or network issues. Regardless, you do not want ot make a pest out of yourself. That could backfire on you BIGTIME!

I can tell you that while the squeaky wheel gets the attention, it is not always the attention one wants.
How could this backfire bigtime?

Arkansas Paul
December 4, 2010, 12:55 AM
What are your state's rules on concealed carry permit holders? In Arkansas, if you've got a permit, there's no call made. You just fill out the form and take your gun. I know that all states don't prescribe to this though. If yours does, it may be worth getting just to avoid the headache of a purchase.

flank
December 4, 2010, 01:53 AM
how is DSG "obligated" to give you your gun after 3 days delayed status?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet
quoted right from the FBI NICS fact sheet, 7th paragraph down
If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer).

it's up to the FFL dealer if they want to release the firearm to you after the 3 days of delayed status. Most of the chain sporting goods stores have the same "no-go until they get a proceed from NICS". The company makes the policy, not the guy behind the counter.

bsctov
December 4, 2010, 11:14 AM
Legally, they aren't obligated to do anything except conform to the handicap accessible code/fire/building code and make sure the store doesn't cave in. It's just a DICK'S move, I guess. :neener:

erichtmobile
December 4, 2010, 11:46 PM
Well I hope you don't shop at dicks again, the sheer fact that no one bothered to let you know you got approved is unacceptable customer service. Besides dicks sporting goods corporate politics are highly questionable IMO

NavyLCDR
December 4, 2010, 11:56 PM
how is DSG "obligated" to give you your gun after 3 days delayed status?

Nobody ever said DSG was obligated to give him the gun. What was posted was: "if after the 3rd business day the FFL has not heard back from NICS then they have no obligation to keep you from picking up YOUR gun" which is absolutely true. DSG is under NO OBLIGATION to withhold the gun from the purchaser. Since the sale COULD proceed, and Dick's is CHOOSING to not proceed, then after the 3 day wait, they ARE under obligation to either transfer the gun OR fully refund the purchaser's money, unless the purchaser agrees to wait longer.

bsctov
February 5, 2011, 04:54 PM
Got my UPIN from the feds yesturday, hopefully this is the end of the delays.

mgkdrgn
February 5, 2011, 05:53 PM
Good move on your part. Please let us know if it works!

mcdonl
February 5, 2011, 06:00 PM
mgkdrgn, you are close about their policy. What they told me was they hold the gun for five days if there is a delay of any kind.

I took my business elsewhere and only shop there now about 2 weeks after hunting season when I am on the search for deals.

They suck.

bikemutt
February 5, 2011, 06:42 PM
Good you got the UPIN, my VAF was sent in mid December, maybe mine will show soon, and make a difference.

bsctov
February 5, 2011, 06:45 PM
Be on the lookout for a dramatic, large yellow envelope :P

wally
February 5, 2011, 07:15 PM
At the gun show today two of the three people in line ahead of me got "delayed" and both had rather common "minority" last names. One gave the dealer half down to put the gun on "lay-away" until the next show (it was a nice price on a Colt 6920) the other guy canceled the purchase and walked away. This dealer will deliver the gun if the three business days expire and it is not denied.

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