.40 ca. ammo Hornaday Critical Defense or

Corbon Powerball? Which ammo is better?

I would argue the Pow'r ball is better but there are some people who really love the Critical Defense. I think the main selling point of the Critical Defense is its consistent performance through clothing as a barrier.
Beyond these two hollowpoints I would of course recommend Federal HSTs or Wincester SXT or Ranger Ts.

I would argue the Pow'r ball is better but there are some people who really love the Critical Defense. I think the main selling point of the Critical Defense is its consistent performance through clothing as a barrier.
Beyond these two hollowpoints I would of course recommend Federal HSTs or Wincester SXT or Ranger Ts.
I have heard that SXT ranger is good. Is this the same as the PDX1?
The Corbon costs alot more than the Hornady I believe. I think you get 25 with Hornady and only 20 with the Corbon Powerball. 135 grains at 1,325 fps on the .40 cal. in Corbon Powerball

I to like the hornady ammo. It has tested well and is cost affective .

I have heard that SXT ranger is good. Is this the same as the PDX1?
The Corbon costs alot more than the Hornady I believe. I think you get 25 with Hornady and only 20 with the Corbon Powerball. 135 grains at 1,325 fps on the .40 cal. in Corbon Powerball

Check out this application - it's pretty cool.
http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

Also, the PDX1 is not the SXT.
I agree with you that the prices for hollowpoints suck! What I end up doing is going to the gun show then buying LE hollowpoints (which come in boxes of 50) for about $30-35. You save per cartridge but will be paying more per box.

I wouldn't bother with Hornady Critical Defense or CorBon Pow'RBall.

I recommend Federal HST - $27 per 50 rd box when ordered from http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-40HST

Either will do.

Far more important is you skill with your pick of weapons and ammo.

Most major brands are fine and each has a tradeoff BUT it's the skill of the shooter that matters most.

Pick either brand of ammo. Then get lots of practice ammo and train.

Deaf

Check out this application - it's pretty cool.
http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

Also, the PDX1 is not the SXT.
I agree with you that the prices for hollowpoints suck! What I end up doing is going to the gun show then buying LE hollowpoints (which come in boxes of 50) for about $30-35. You save per cartridge but will be paying more per box.
When did 20 round boxes of personal defense ammo become the norm? It was always 50 rounds as I remember.

Is the PDX1 a good performer?

I would argue the Pow'r ball is better but there are some people who really love the Critical Defense. I think the main selling point of the Critical Defense is its consistent performance through clothing as a barrier.
Beyond these two hollowpoints I would of course recommend Federal HSTs or Wincester SXT or Ranger Ts.
Corbon Powerball cost the most.

PDX1 is Ranger Bonded. The FBI recently bought $54 Million worth of it (180gr.) It is my carry ammo.

None of the above for me...

My .40 autos get Gold Dot 155gr.

Les

PDX1 is Ranger Bonded. The FBI recently bought $54 Million worth of it (180gr.) It is my carry ammo.
It's more cost effective than the two other ammos Corbon and Hornady. I think I have seen .40 cal in PDX1 in 165 grain weight. What's the big defference between 165 grains and 180 grains in results?

None of the above for me...

My .40 autos get Gold Dot 155gr.

Les
Is this the ammo brand that comes 25 to a pack?

What's the big defference between 165 grains and 180 grains in results?
Use the tool Imon posted to compare.

Is this the ammo brand that comes 25 to a pack?
I think Gold Dot is 20rd./box. I believe you're thinking of Remington GoldenSaber which comes 25rd./box. I wouldn't recommend 155gr. BTW.

No just between Hornady Critical Defense and Corbon Powerball
Hornady has other types like: XTP, TAP and maybe more.

Anything in 165 grn for my 40, just seems more accurate. Gold dot has always been my first choice.

Anything in 165 grn for my 40, just seems more accurate. Gold dot has always been my first choice.
So do you think that these more expensive brands are just hype/marketing and that any 165 .40 cal hollow point ammo is sufficient for personal protection

What Deaf Smith said.

I wouldn't bother with Hornady Critical Defense or CorBon Pow'RBall.

I recommend Federal HST - $27 per 50 rd box when ordered from http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-40HST
That would be my choice as well. Ammo to go has it for $24.95 a box if you get the 165gr.

What's the big defference between 165 grains and 180 grains in results?

From the tests and reports I have read, the 180gr has better penetration from service pistols. The 165gr will probably average an inch less of penetration. However, it will have more kinetic energy. In hand guns that difference in energy probably will not make a big difference.

So, I go with heavier bullets for better penetration. I'm not a scientist. This is just my understanding after reading more than a few articles, tests, and reports.

135gr cor-bon would be my choice.

None of the above for me...

My .40 autos get Gold Dot 155gr.



Plus One

Hornady Tap 155 gr would be another good choice.

Another, allbeit minor, benifit from the 180 grain over the lighter bullets is less deflection when shooting through glass, or car doors and such.

Thats a pretty minor consideration for civilian uses, much more important for LEOs.

Another, allbeit minor, benifit from the 180 grain over the lighter bullets is less deflection when shooting through glass, or car doors and such.

Thats a pretty minor consideration for civilian uses, much more important for LEOs.
But bullet is traveling alot slower

135gr cor-bon would be my choice.
Corbon Power Ball? or Corbon hollow points?

Plus One

Hornady Tap 155 gr would be another good choice.
Hornady seems to have too many choices to choose from XTP, TAP, Critical Defense did I miss any others?

I wouldn't bother with Hornady Critical Defense or CorBon Pow'RBall.

I recommend Federal HST - $27 per 50 rd box when ordered from http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-40HST
__________________

Of course I find a link to where I can find 147 +p 9mm hst and .45acp Hst after I order my ammo for christmas....

If you like the idea of consistent performance through clothing/barriers that Critical Defense offers, check out Federal's EFMJ.
Performs as well as any premium expanding bullet, also has a closed nose so that it can't clog, but instead of costing $20 for a box of $20, you can get them for ~$25-30 for a box of 50 from Policehq, or Ammo to Go.

My .40 autos get Gold Dot 155gr.

Is this the ammo brand that comes 25 to a pack?

I buy it in 50 round boxes from Sportsman's Guide. $29.99 last price paid.

Les

Of course I find a link to where I can find 147 +p 9mm hst and .45acp Hst after I order my ammo for christmas....
Can civilians buy from this website? It would seem to be only for law enforcement or military.

Can civilians buy from this website? It would seem to be only for law enforcement or military

Its not a restricted product...so yes, a civilian can.

Its not a restricted product...so yes, a civilian can.
Better buy soon then as ammo sales through mail order will be banned I believe at the beginning of 2011.

Better buy soon then as ammo sales through mail order will be banned I believe at the beginning of 2011.

I dont live in California, so I'm good.

But bullet is traveling alot slower

The 180gr HST in .40S&W does about 689mph. I don't think I know of anybody fast enough to dodge that.

If you are shooting at 50 or 75 yards I can see the concern. Then it would be easier for the wind or other things to effect the ballistics. At less distance than that, I don't think the difference in speed will make a impact on performance.

Just my opinion.

I wouldn't shoot anything below 155gr, and preferably 165-180. Momentum is an important part of the picture for adequate penetration, and greater mass gives greater momentum.

We aren't shooting nines, after all!

I wouldn't shoot anything below 155gr, and preferably 165-180. Momentum is an important part of the picture for adequate penetration, and greater mass gives greater momentum.

We aren't shooting nines, after all!
I think the power ball in .40 135 grains travels at 1325 fps.

CorBon Pow'RBall is, in essence a plastic Glaser ball stuffed into a lead core JHP bullet.

The plastic ball appears to delay bullet expansion, which allows it to achieve deeper penetration than conventional lead core JHP bullets of the same weight.

IMO, Pow'RBall is NOT a good choice as a general-purpose CCW load.

Hornady Critical Defense is also NOT a good choice as a general-purpose CCW load, IMO.

Both are more expensive and don't provide an advantage in expansion reliability compared to a modern JHP bullet like HST.

If you desire a bullet with both energy and adequate penetration then I suggest either CorBon DPX or Black Hills TAC-XP, both which are loaded with the Barnes solid copper TAC-XP hollowpoint bullet. You're going to pay more for either load, compared to HST.

The Corbon Powerball ammo is about $29.99 for it in .40 cal, and .45 ACP.'

The Corbon DPX loads are low velocity loads.

Really kind of apples vs. oranges here. The Critical Defense loads were made to expand everytime going through the F.B.I. 4 layer denim protocol. Not steel, windsheilds, and so on. It was designed for civilian use where shooting through something to hit a bad guy is not likely. The Pow-R-Ball is made to go through the above mentioned objects, retain most of it's weight, minimum deflection, and still get good expansion and penetration on the bad guys. Decide what you need the load to do and make your decision based on that.

Really kind of apples vs. oranges here. The Critical Defense loads were made to expand everytime going through the F.B.I. 4 layer denim protocol. Not steel, windsheilds, and so on. It was designed for civilian use where shooting through something to hit a bad guy is not likely. The Pow-R-Ball is made to go through the above mentioned objects, retain most of it's weight, minimum deflection, and still get good expansion and penetration on the bad guys. Decide what you need the load to do and make your decision based on that.
Very interesting that's two different scenarios that citizens and officers must consider. Power Ball may overpenetrate and endanger others while it is best for shooting through cars barriers at on patrol those light high speeds.
The other round like 9mm may not be strong enough to put the target down. The civilian in home protection must consider over penetration. The slower moving bullet which is heavier is more likely to stay in target to dump all energy into it.
So if it's indoor home protection the bigger slower load is preferred? Like the 180 grain .40 cal bullet which travels slower unlike the it's faster counterpart 135 grain goes alot faster and the best weapon for outdoor shooting for distance and barriers /cars.

The Pow-R-Ball is made to go through the above mentioned objects, retain most of it's weight, minimum deflection, and still get good expansion and penetration on the bad guys.

Regarding Pow'RBall terminal performance, suggest you see - http://www.thegunzone.com/powrball.html and http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26717&highlight=powerball

choose one that better fits what you think you may face in a real life situation that also is reliable and accurate out of your gun. I prefer the Hornady CD myself. I want the surest expander so as to minimize unintended casualties.

Sounds like this round goes to Hornady Critical Defense.

"A Word of Caution about Hornady’s Critical Defense Handgun Ammunition" - http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/main.htm

That article is kinda misleading.... You even state that it is "untested and unknown" against barrier material. That's hardly the uneffective the article claims.

I don't see critical defense performing any different through barrier material than other common hollow points. It's probaby more effective through clothing for which it was designed.

But I agree if proven barrier penetration is on your list of requirements, then I wouldn't use for SD until it is tested for that. IMO, the only caliber that I find Critical Defense far superior in right now is .380 where clothing penetration is a hurdle for the caliber and barrier penetration is non existent regardless. Anything larger and it's HST for myself.

That article is kinda misleading.... You even state that it is "untested and unknown" against barrier material. That's hardly the uneffective the article claims. There's no claim that Critical Defense is ineffective - only that its terminal performance against anything other than bare gelatin and gelatin covered with clothing is unknown. It may perform as poorly as Glaser Pow'RBall does against sheetmetal and windshield glass.

It's probaby more effective through clothing for which it was designed. The best modern JHP loads demonstrate nearly identical penetration depth performance in both bare gelatin and gelatin covered by four layers of heavy denim cloth. (The best performing JHP loads are the ones with the least differences in penetration depth between bare gelatin and gelatin covered by four layers of heavy denim cloth.) Actual in-service performance usually falls somewhere between these two extremes.

youtube is your friend on this one and there were a few threads with pictures showing different bullets and if they actually expanded or not when tested I dont recall ever seeing Hornady CD not expand. On the other hand some of the others had problems. I guess its what your shooting at that matters most. Are you going to be shooting through windshields and glass or sheetmetal doors maybe through your house into another room or into the neighbors? Heck just shoot FMJ. Be careful about shooting through sheetmetal doors and other things if the deadly threat is trying to flee they tend to frown on that. Again its what do you want expansion, penetration, uintended collateral damage you will be liable for or maybe just an excellent self defense load for a normal self defense situation thats what you must decide . We all have an opinion just try to decide based on what real world scenarios would be, or we'd all just go buy a Bazooka.

Which bullet weight shoots to point of aim with YOUR particular pistol? Figure that out first, then start worrying about which bullet is prettiest.

My SIGs' sights shoot to point of aim with 180-grain bullets. I get the best deal on premium JHPs, locally, on Gold Dots. For the same reason I use Gold Dots, price, plenty of other local LEOs do the same, and the bad guys keep falling when we place the shots well. (It is customary in this region for LEOs to buy/furnish their own duty weapons and ammo.)

Which bullet weight shoots to point of aim with YOUR particular pistol? Figure that out first, then start worrying about which bullet is prettiest.

Outstanding! The truth. I love it...

Les

youtube is your friend on this one and there were a few threads with pictures showing different bullets and if they actually expanded or not when tested I dont recall ever seeing Hornady CD not expand. On the other hand some of the others had problems. I guess its what your shooting at that matters most. Are you going to be shooting through windshields and glass or sheetmetal doors maybe through your house into another room or into the neighbors? Heck just shoot FMJ. Be careful about shooting through sheetmetal doors and other things if the deadly threat is trying to flee they tend to frown on that. Again its what do you want expansion, penetration, uintended collateral damage you will be liable for or maybe just an excellent self defense load for a normal self defense situation thats what you must decide . We all have an opinion just try to decide based on what real world scenarios would be, or we'd all just go buy a Bazooka.
I agree FMJ are the best for shooting through barracades. Less likely to jam but if you are using a Glock no worries on this.

FMJ better through barricades? Really? What barricade material? When I want to shoot through things, and have time to change ammo, I use Federal HST Tactical, not FMJ. Don't mistake true "solids" from African hunting literature for mere unbonded FMJ pistol ammo.

FMJ can "squirt" its lead core right out of the jacket, and therefore not necessarily penetrate as well as a bonded-core JHP. (I have seen this at real, live crime scenes.) Against windshield glass, FMJ is more likely to deflect than HST Tactical.

FMJ cannot be assumed more reliable in all pistols; it depends upon the bullet nose configuration. .40 S&W, and the pistols designed to shoot it, are designed around a JTC-configured bullet, and it seems to matter not at all if there is a hole in the nose of the bullet.

Glocks are NOT the only pistols that will feed virtually any bullet configuration, assuming the pistol has no faults. .40 Glocks definitely had growing pains; been there, done that.

:DYes I agree FMJ for barracades. Best penetration.
Another Hornady round? Between XTP, Critical D. TAP and what else?
So many and too many choices.:D

Velocity matters not, it is momentum, which would penetrate your house best? A motorcycle traveling at 150 mph, car at 90 mph, tank at 60 mph or freight train at 20 mph?

Velocity matters not, it is momentum, which would penetrate your house best? A motorcycle traveling at 150 mph, car at 90 mph, tank at 60 mph or freight train at 20 mph?
They would all damage the house. Wouldn't want to get run over by any of them.