7 year prison sentence for legal purchases of firearms


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usmarine0352_2005
December 2, 2010, 06:57 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/02/new-jersey-gun-case-highlights-patchwork-state-gun-laws-relatives-experts-say/


New Jersey Gun Case Exposes 'Patchwork' of State Laws, Experts Say

By Joshua Rhett Miller

Published December 02, 2010

The case of a New Jersey man who is serving seven years in prison for possessing two locked and unloaded handguns he purchased legally in Colorado is a perfect example of how a law-abiding citizen can unwittingly become a criminal due to vastly differing gun laws among the states, gun rights experts say.

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Wishoot
December 2, 2010, 07:07 PM
Nice that our justice system locks up a law abiding citizen and let's drug dealers, sex offenders and chronic drunk drivers free to roam.

Justin
December 2, 2010, 07:08 PM
To the NJ legal system, gun owners are just as criminal.

Years ago, I landed a college internship in NJ. Like a good gun owner, I researched the law, only to find that not only was I forbidden from bringing any guns, I couldn't even take my single shot Olympic-style air pistol.

Sent from my Android smart phone using Tapatalk.

M-Cameron
December 2, 2010, 07:27 PM
I couldn't even take my single shot Olympic-style air pistol.

i can understand that......i mean, i cant tell you how many times ive walked out of a store with a fresh pack of targets only to have a pack of thugs drive by and shoot the 10's out of all my targets......gets soo frustrating.......they do have fantastic form though.



i still find it hard that someone is a criminal merely for possessing something that is legal for him to own in another state.

Kentucky_Rifleman
December 2, 2010, 08:25 PM
There is no justice, no rational thought in this case. I'm too stupefied by the severity of the sentence for the crime - or that this IS a crime in NJ - to be angry yet. There are parts of our beloved country that - by my way of thinking - have broken faith with every value this nation was founded upon. It seems New Jersey is one of them.

+1 to what Wishoot said; Every day I read about new crimes committed by repeat offenders who roll in and out of the justice system like it had a revolving door. Now along comes Brian, a 27 year-old citizen, a good guy with no criminal record, no history of violence, who - according to the article - made a "good-faith effort" to be in compliance with the law (he called the NJ state police about how to transport the guns), and he's not only tried and convicted, but he draws a heavier sentence than 90% of the NJ manslaughter cases.

It will be a cold day in Hell before I set foot in:

New Jersey,
New York,
California,
Massachusetts,
Illinois,
Maryland, or
Connecticut.

KR

nipprdog
December 2, 2010, 09:22 PM
Misleading thread title. :rolleyes:

He didn't get sentenced for what he legally bought in Colorado, he got senteced for making the mistake of transporting 'those' mags, and 'those' bullets to Kommi Jersey.

Don't get me wrong, it is a tragic injustice, and I feel for him, and his family.

And I totally disagree with the sentence.

But even stupid laws, are laws.

Oyeboten
December 2, 2010, 09:37 PM
Couple years ago I had a really really good Job offer in New Jersey, and, I almost accepted it. Right on the Coast, beautiful area next to some sort of Preserve..

I never even thought about any of this sort of thing then.


Eeeeeeeesh.

Glad I did not do it.

bushmaster1313
December 2, 2010, 10:00 PM
Hollow point bullets are not completely forbidden in New Jersey.
You can buy them at the store, take them home, take them to the range and shoot them.
But if you do anything else with them, you in heap big trouble.
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

Magazines are legal up to 15 rounds. Not sure why someone would get seven years for high cap mags.

Something must have happened in Brian's case that we do not know.

P.S. all handguns are illegal in NJ subject to certain narrow exceptions, including keeping it at your house, taking it to the range, and taking it for service. Permits are on the books but unobtainable in practice.

Deltaboy
December 2, 2010, 10:02 PM
NJ and several other states should be seceded to Canada!

ShaiVong
December 2, 2010, 10:37 PM
i can understand that......i mean, i cant tell you how many times ive walked out of a store with a fresh pack of targets only to have a pack of thugs drive by and shoot the 10's out of all my targets......gets soo frustrating.......they do have fantastic form though.



i still find it hard that someone is a criminal merely for possessing something that is legal for him to own in another state.
Thread over, you win.

orionengnr
December 2, 2010, 11:03 PM
Other states, including Florida and Texas, do not require purchaser's permits but mandate that gun owners obtain licenses to carry handguns openly.
Gee, where can I get one of those Texas Open Carry permits? ;) Got my checkbook right here...

I was born and raised in CT, spent 20 years in CA, and three in IL. That said, I am leaning more and more towards this:
It will be a cold day in Hell before I set foot in:

New Jersey,
New York,
California,
Massachusetts,
Illinois,
Maryland, or
Connecticut.

Bubba613
December 2, 2010, 11:12 PM
Well, he violated the law. He knew he was violating the law, or should have. He is guilty.
A little prosecutorial discretion, however, would have been welcome to avoid sending an otherwise upstanding citizen with no criminal record and no record of violence to jail for 7 years. A fine and suspended sentence might have easily sufficed.
But it's New Jersey. What more can anyone say?

bushmaster1313
December 2, 2010, 11:27 PM
I think he should have been censured.
Imagine the pain of having to stand in front of Madame Pelosi.:p

Ohio Gun Guy
December 3, 2010, 12:17 AM
Sounds like a BIG infringement of his 2A rights to me....

Heller / McDonald.

I agree, something wasnt stated in the article, but the thought of 7 years for mere firearm ownership........:fire:

therewolf
December 3, 2010, 12:25 AM
New Jersey LE was just worried about protecting their gun toting criminals from a law-abiding gun owner, that's all.

I can see the cause for concern here. Politicians want to make it seem like subjugating the 2nd amendment is their God-given right, and heaven forbid
things get out of hand, and the appearance is made that NJ LEO's were too
busy sucking donuts and acting smugly arrogant to properly perform their duties protecting the prostitutes and junkies.

I mean, come on, now. A state's got to have SOME standards...:scrutiny:

statelineblues
December 3, 2010, 12:32 AM
Another example of why I will NEVER, EVER, live in NJ again! (got relatives there, so I still visit on occasion).

I have told friends that if I ever win a mega $ lottery, the first thing I'm going to do is print out a list of every firearm banned in New Jersey and purchase 2 of each! (And maybe a couple of cases of hollowpoints as well):neener:

Crawlin
December 3, 2010, 12:36 AM
The guy may be guilty but the fact that most of the evidence and testomony wasn't even allowed by the judge, INCLUDING the fact that he was moving along with a car full of stuff...

Click the link below and read up on it. Let's stand behind this guy and get he laws changed.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=556740

Full Metal Jacket
December 3, 2010, 12:53 AM
that's ridiculous to waste tax dollars on putting that poor guy in prison.

yes, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but in this case the law is a violation of the constitution.

makarovnik
December 3, 2010, 05:02 AM
Someone should break that sucker out.

longdayjake
December 3, 2010, 03:58 PM
Where is THE DARK KNIGHT to defend NJ laws when you need him? We need some arguments from the other side.

Gouranga
December 3, 2010, 04:18 PM
In the end guys, it is the fault of the citizens of NJ. We need to stop and think, these laws are in place cause the people that matter WANT them there. So who matter? Those who vote. We have such apathy when it comes to voting that we end up with laws like this. If all gun owners stood up and voted and held these politicians feet to the fire on 2A issues, this would be done. But we don't and this is exactly what we get.

cl4de6
December 3, 2010, 05:28 PM
In the end guys, it is the fault of the citizens of NJ. We need to stop and think, these laws are in place cause the people that matter WANT them there.

Well yes ... no.

I think that Guns just aren't on the radar screen for most New Jersey residents. It's just not something people think about here.

Don't forget, New Jersey is a very expensive state to live in. Many people have more than one job. It's common for people to spend three hours on the turnpike getting to and from work. When we get home, we just want to eat dinner and go to bed. We are just too darn tired to think about something as remote as gun politics.

I shoot skeet. I don't hide it, but I mention it in conversation when people ask me about my weekend. I take friends and neighbors skeet shooting occasionally to try and promote the sport. Once in a while I find a neighbor who takes a rabidly anti-gun stance but for the most part, people don't care. It's not that residents are anti-gun, it's that they are just busy doing other things and shooting sports aren't one of them.

I took a co-worker skeet shooting a couple of weeks ago and she asked me: "Where do you even buy a gun?" Weapons just didn't even exist in her world. I've spoken with friends who didn't even know that Dicks Sporting Goods had a firearms department.

So when politicians come along and propose new gun laws, 10% of the state goes nuts (the hunters, collectors and enthusiasts) but nobody else really takes much notice because it just doesn't effect them.

I think that some of this was engineered with New Jersey's Firearms ID card laws. In other states, if you take a friend shooting, that friend could go and buy a gun the very next day if he can pass a NICS check. In a different state, it's common for a co-worker to sell a gun to another co-worker if he needs the cash to get him through the month. Or for a woman who lives alone to receive a gun as a gift from a boyfriend. This promotes "casual" ownership by people who may never use it, but keep in in a nightstand drawer "just in case." This kind of ownership does not happen New Jersey.

If you want a gun in New Jersey, you have to fill out an intimidating form, get a money order, set up background check references, take time off of work to get fingerprinted, and wait for the chief of police in your town to get the paperwork together.

I think that most people who want a gun just stop when they see the form. I've encountered this before with friends I've taken skeet shooting. Some of them enjoy it so much that they resolve to go down to the police station to get their firearms ID card paperwork... only to have it sit on the kitchen table for a month. It's just a pain to do. And some others are intimidated by a block on the form which requires you to list your employer and employer's address. Some people are afraid that their employers will be contacted (and from what I understand, some police departments do contact employers as part of their background check).

This inconvenience is designed to cause a chilling effect. It's designed to keep guns out of the hands of casual owners. Now this law also has another unintended effect. New Jersey gun owners (all 10% of us) tend to be very vocal, and very organized, and very aware of our rights because we have been *distilled.* You have to be an enthusiast in New Jersey because only the enthusiast has the perseverance to get the proper permits.

I think at one point (back in the 60's when these FID laws were passed) your statement was true. People really did want gun control. But the laws had the effect of creating a generation of people who didn't grow up with guns. They might not be for or against weapons, they just have no experience with them and so really don't care.

So do New Jersey gun owners want the laws there? No. Do the people of New Jersey want those laws? Honestly, I don't think that they even know the laws exist. So it's not that they want them, they might not be pro-gun or anti-gun, they just might be apathetic. My way of fixing that is to take people shooting whenever I go to the range. But I have to admit it's an uphill climb.

Carter
December 3, 2010, 05:30 PM
In the end guys, it is the fault of the citizens of NJ. We need to stop and think, these laws are in place cause the people that matter WANT them there. So who matter? Those who vote. We have such apathy when it comes to voting that we end up with laws like this. If all gun owners stood up and voted and held these politicians feet to the fire on 2A issues, this would be done. But we don't and this is exactly what we get.

While that statement is true, such people should not be allowed to make laws like the ones in NJ. They violate the 2nd amendment and make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.

That said, the guy should of abided by the laws while he was there, despite how rediculous, unconstitutional, and stupid they may be.

btg3
December 3, 2010, 06:10 PM
Jan 2009 -- arrested
Aug 2009 -- sentenced
Nov 2010 -- appealed to NJ governor for clemency
Dec 2010 -- ???

http://reason.com/archives/2010/11/15/brian-aitkens-mistake/

Wishoot
December 3, 2010, 07:40 PM
At least NJ finally got a Governor with half a brain (actually, he's pretty darn smart). Hopefully, he'll make the right decision.

BaltimoreBoy
December 3, 2010, 07:54 PM
This is what jury nullification is for.

Blue Brick
December 3, 2010, 08:30 PM
CA has OC but it has to be unloaded.

rscalzo
December 3, 2010, 09:23 PM
At least NJ finally got a Governor with half a brain (actually, he's pretty darn smart).

Christie is an idiot. He took care of his brother who was under investigation and due for indictment for fraudulent stock trades and practices involving Goldmasn Sachs.. He has cost the state almost a billion in lost funding. he hasn't done a thing except travel all over the state for photo ops for his move to the big time. He thinks he's a front runner for the election in 2012. Another politician with no experience running for President...where have we heard that before.

While spending more than any other Govenor on his travels and his staff is larger than any before him, he hammers at the working man as the criminal of the state. Any time he screws up, it's someone else's fault as in the case of the bungled education grant application. his own staff has left after only less than a year.

Plus you think he's going to help, think again... He only man it in because of the Anti-Democratic sentiment going around.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/rscalzo/Christie1995001.jpg

The defencants biggest problem was not hiring a decent Criminal Defense lawyer.

blkbrd666
December 3, 2010, 10:47 PM
That's sad news that he had to go to NJ. It would make a great US landfill.

1stmarine
December 12, 2010, 09:09 PM
This case must be appealed to the supreme court.
This man must be freed and compensated.
State and Federal legislators are a disease.

1stmarine
December 12, 2010, 09:15 PM
The criminals love these state and federal ban laws. They can steal, rape and murder w/o fear that the citizens will have the means to defend themselves.

THE DARK KNIGHT
December 12, 2010, 09:36 PM
Where is THE DARK KNIGHT to defend NJ laws when you need him? We need some arguments from the other side.

Huh? What the heck are you talking about?

As for the people talking about Christie - I hope he makes the right decision and pardons Brian, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Christie is just as anti gun as anyone, and as far as the rest of his politics, rscalzo is dead on.

Christie said he will have a decision before christmas in response of whether to pardon/commute his sentence or not. Genuinely, he would let the guy rot, but I don't think he will, because it would really hurt his chances at the "big time" that he's looking for after his time as governor. That said I doubt he would pardon him either, since he wouldn't want to give the very anti-gun residents of NJ the idea that he somehow likes the second amendment. I am guessing he will commute his sentence, or possibly have him released and granted a new trial where he will be convicted of the hollow point and high capacity magazine charges against him.

bushmaster1313
December 12, 2010, 09:53 PM
The more I read about this the more I think there is something that we don't know.

I can only speculate that the Judge was convinced that the defendant had been keeping this contraband in his trunk for quite some time, and that if he did not treat this defendant as he would any other violator of the state gun laws other criminals could plead violation of equal protection.

BP44
December 12, 2010, 10:05 PM
If all is as it seems this case is absolutely :banghead: I will be watching the out come of this as I suggest all of us do. if this goes south I hope all of us write letters and place phone calls to the great state of NJ. Christie is an idiot and should realize that this is an idiot move, If not lets tell him!

Carl N. Brown
December 12, 2010, 10:19 PM
But even stupid laws, are laws.

His transport of the guns between residences was legal under an exemption (defense) in the law that the judge in the case refused to read to the jury. The jury asked more than once to be read the specific exemptions (legal defenses) in the law but the judge got curt with them, as though they were out of line.

There is a difference between carrying a gun as a weapon and transporting it as property and NJ law theoreticly makes a difference. The guy got seven years for a non-crime.

The same judge acquitted a guy for sexually abusing calves based on his surmise that the calves had no way of understanding they were being abused by the guy, so in absence of the calves knowing they were sexually abised, no crime had occurred. I believe that judge was taken off the bench for other questionable judgements.

Sending a man to seven years when he had a legal defense (transporting unloaded guns between residences is not carrying weapons under the law) is the kind of thing that breeds disrespect for "law and order".

hso
December 12, 2010, 11:13 PM
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=556740

THE DARK KNIGHT
December 13, 2010, 12:33 AM
I can only speculate that the Judge was convinced that the defendant had been keeping this contraband in his trunk for quite some time, and that if he did not treat this defendant as he would any other violator of the state gun laws other criminals could plead violation of equal protection.

The scary thing about this conviction is simply the manner in which Aitken was convicted. In NJ, as you know, it is illegal to have a handgun outside your home/fixed business unless you fall under an exemption such as moving, going to the range, coming home from a gun shop, etc.

Mr. Aitken has clothes and dishes in his car, the officer even testified that, but the judge refused to allow that as evidence of him falling into an exemption (or even telling the jury there is an exemption for moving)

What is so frightening about this is that it could happen to anyone in NJ. Just think for a second if a judge decided that you having targets and earplugs in your trunk was not sufficient enough to prove that you were under range exemption.

It may sound gloom and doom, but this case sets a precedent that anyone in NJ, acting 100% lawfully and in compliance with the laws, can find themselves in prison anyway after a routine traffic stop.

merlinfire
December 13, 2010, 08:16 AM
The scary thing about this conviction is simply the manner in which Aitken was convicted. In NJ, as you know, it is illegal to have a handgun outside your home/fixed business unless you fall under an exemption such as moving, going to the range, coming home from a gun shop, etc.

Mr. Aitken has clothes and dishes in his car, the officer even testified that, but the judge refused to allow that as evidence of him falling into an exemption (or even telling the jury there is an exemption for moving)

What is so frightening about this is that it could happen to anyone in NJ. Just think for a second if a judge decided that you having targets and earplugs in your trunk was not sufficient enough to prove that you were under range exemption.

It may sound gloom and doom, but this case sets a precedent that anyone in NJ, acting 100% lawfully and in compliance with the laws, can find themselves in prison anyway after a routine traffic stop.

You have a point. If a judge can just ignore part of the law if he wants.....

Well, I'd appeal to the state supreme court. I mean, someone has to respect the rule of law, right?

SwampWolf
December 14, 2010, 06:23 AM
The more I read about this the more I think there is something that we don't know.

My thoughts exactly. There must be something more to this story! :eek: If not, what a sorry state of affairs our precious Republic is in. New Jersey is still located in America the last time I checked for Pete's sake!

harmon rabb
December 14, 2010, 06:35 AM
This story just reinforces that if you want to exercise your 2A rights, you need to live in a state that actually recognizes the 2A.

Carl N. Brown
December 14, 2010, 07:44 AM
Before moving to NJ the guy checked out the law and was trying to follow it. He was moving the guns unloaded, cased, in the trunk; he was not carrying them in the car for use as weapons. In NJ it is not just the 2A that is ignored. The judge refused to read the entire law to the jury after they requested an explanation of the exemptions (defenses) allowed under the law. Transportation unloaded between residences as he was doing was allowed under the law.

Most states have a RKBA in the state constitution referring to the citizen's or the individual's right to keep and bear arms. Constitutions of states like NY do not recognize citizen's or individual's RKBA. Politicians like Chuck Schumer want to use ambiguity over the federal 2A to promote federal gun bans steamrollering over state constitutional RKBAs. In spite of Heller'08 and McDonald'10 you cannot lose sight of the fact that politicians in Cook County IL, NJ, MA, NY act like absolute monarchs above constitution and law.

JohnBT
December 14, 2010, 08:33 AM
"Transportation unloaded between residences as he was doing was allowed under the law."

I believe it has to be between his residences, and not just any old residence. If he had been living with his mother, had he changed his legal address on his driver's license, taxes, insurance bills, etc? I suppose they might have argued that he was not moving from his legal residence directly to his next legal residence.

Personally, I think he got a dirty deal, but the legal aspects of the case are interesting.

And why can't you pump your own gas in NJ? And where do they get the greasy bums that man the pumps in Atlantic City?

berettaprofessor
December 14, 2010, 10:06 AM
His transport of the guns between residences was legal under an exemption (defense) in the law that the judge in the case refused to read to the jury. The jury asked more than once to be read the specific exemptions (legal defenses) in the law but the judge got curt with them, as though they were out of line.

If the judge acted this way, why wouldn't the jury just acquit the guy? "Not Guilty" would have been a good way to nullify the judge. What don't we know here?

sansone
December 14, 2010, 10:18 AM
stories like this make me crazy mad. My dad was a life-long cop and often stated only people dangerous to citizens need be locked-away. How is this fella a danger to his fellow americans? Same with tax violations, our dictators will lock us away if we disagree with tax procedures. We need to continue our efforts educating people and shaking them to peaceful action.

GambJoe
December 14, 2010, 11:38 PM
Another example of why I will NEVER, EVER, live in NJ again!

Me to. Unless I got a good job offer.

SSN Vet
December 15, 2010, 12:04 AM
a really really good Job offer in New Jersey

Last year I was recruited to jump ship and go to work for one of my current employers biggest competitors.... at their plant in MA.

Even after I expressed that I wasn't interested, they kept calling me, and started tossing out numbers that would have added up to a major salary increase.....

The more I thought about it, I became more and more turned off by the prospect of living down there. It's way to crowded....and the cost of living down there is outrageous.... and when I considered the politics and mindset of my wifes kin down there, and their extremely restrictive gun laws..... there was no decision left to make.

Sometimes it's good to count your blessings and learn to appreciate what you have.

GambJoe
December 15, 2010, 08:58 AM
I can see why you wouldn't want to leave. Lived in Maine for seven years and had to move back to NY for personal reasons. The best place I ever lived.

Vector
December 15, 2010, 10:32 AM
But even stupid laws, are laws.

Yes, but when you have conflicting or nonsensical laws, how does one comply:confused:
I know ignorance of the law is no excuse, but when someone makes a sincere effort to comply, how can they be held accountable if the legislature doesn't even understand the law they passed?

bigkhan
December 15, 2010, 08:35 PM
Misleading thread title. :rolleyes:

He didn't get sentenced for what he legally bought in Colorado, he got senteced for making the mistake of transporting 'those' mags, and 'those' bullets to Kommi Jersey.

Don't get me wrong, it is a tragic injustice, and I feel for him, and his family.

And I totally disagree with the sentence.

But even stupid laws, are laws.
So when the law is passed that says you can't own any guns, will you still be a law abiding citizen or a criminal? I know my choice.

1stmarine
December 15, 2010, 09:21 PM
so when the law is passed that says you can't own any guns, will you still be a law abiding citizen or a criminal? I know my choice.

the criminal will be any person that proposes, votes for or enforces any law that goes against the us constitution.

The guns are nothing. A lot more than just guns is a stake here.

A law to silence citizens will not pass. A law to arrest and seize w/o a warrant will not pass. A law to allow law enforcement to beat up people because of their religion, color or background will not pass.
A law to disarm the citizens will not pass.
These laws will never pass as they will not even be proposed.
I encourage everyone to read the constitution and to talk about it.

I feel bad for this person and i would understand if he wants to sue the police who arrested him, the judge and the state of new jersey. I would donate money to support him.

Look what just happened in chicago and now that they cannot enforce the bans anymore they put so much red tape and bureaucracy that citizens will take years to get their permits. The supreme court was very clear and these majors, politicians, layers and anyone opposing to the constitution must be brought to justice.

SSN Vet
December 16, 2010, 02:40 PM
not really sure how to read your reply 1stmarine....


A law to silence citizens will not pass.
These laws will never pass as they will not even be proposed.

I guess you missed the "hush Rush" law that was was both proposed and came very close to passing under Clinton's admin.

The supreme court was very clear and these majors, politicians, layers and anyone opposing to the constitution must be brought to justice.

Actually, what they said was that the law can not be enforced. Nobody.... absolutely nobody, has been brought to justice. And nobody will be, because Daily and his CPD goons hide behind their government immunity.

If Mr. Heller and Mr. McDonald didn't have the NRA take up their case, they would still be deprived of their second amendment rights, as there is no way either of them could afford their "due process" (meaning justice for those that can afford it and eating crow for those that can't). But don't plan on the NRA coming to your rescue, as they are very, very selective and only jump to defend individuals who's case is aligned with their narrowly focused strategic aims. I'm not knocking the NRA.... they've won major strategic victories for us all. But apparently, when this sad sap in NJ lost his "tactical engagement", he got "no soup".

kludge
December 16, 2010, 03:02 PM
Well, he violated the law. He knew he was violating the law, or should have. He is guilty.

Have you even read what happened?

IBEWBULL
December 16, 2010, 03:29 PM
I lived in New Jersey from December 16 ,1953 to 1972 November 2
While I was a resident I got the required firearma purchase permit whan I reached 18 years of age. Got fingerprinted and the whole nine yards. Bought my HY Score pellet gun for about $35.00 and a Ithica 37 for $125.00
I left for the Navy and cme back when I turned 21 years old. I wanted to buy a 28 Smith and Wesson so went to the West Deptford PD to get a hand gun permit. i thought it would be a background check and pay some money since I had the long gun card.
How wrong was I ? Who ever it was there gave me the 3rd degree like I was John Dillinger and by and by I got sick of his disrepctful questions as to my intent.
So I told the officer to forget it i would get my gun in Virginia. his reply was "you can't do that". I said I was changing my perminant residency to Virginia and would never be back.
If I ever think of moving to that jack booted state not only do I deserve to be locked up for being unstabel.
I never forgot the US Post office opening my Daisy toy gun in 1958. It was ordered from the back of a magazine with some money I earned for doing chores. I felt violated then and it left an impression on me.
Abusive power mad elitist jakbooted thugs.
I also found out the political patronage back there is alive and well.
A relitive just passed and in his obit was his sttus as a Speccial Officer, given him for his political activity and donations tot he force. He had his concealed permit and more rights than the "regular people".
May god Save Our Republic.

raz-0
December 16, 2010, 04:15 PM
Well the judge is out of line, the behavior with the law in his court being the law he sees fit to tell you about is pretty standard in NJ.

Upon hearing more of both sides of the story though, I think the guy sitting in jail is pretty screwed.

The problem is that now, he shouldn't be convicted for the transportation. However, he had 16 round magazines. Possession of such is a effectively a felony in NJ (our legal system doesn't actually use the terms felony or misdemeanor). Then to that, he had hollow points. Which are not illegal in nj... unless you possess them in the commission of a felony (translating once again for the real world).

So it appears that he did break the law as it is written at the moment, regardless of how stupid the laws are. Honestly, even with Heller and McDOnald, I'm not sure you get much ammo to fight capacity restrictions.

SwampWolf
December 16, 2010, 05:02 PM
So it appears that he did break the law as it is written at the moment, regardless of how stupid the laws are.

There have been more than a few felons who have committed subsequent felonies and have been granted probation by some "enlightened" judges. The fellow in question has no prior record and is sentenced to prison for seven years for breaking a "stupid" law? Violating a "technicality", some would argue. Where does common sense and fair-play weigh in here?

Tom488
December 16, 2010, 05:29 PM
Then to that, he had hollow points. Which are not illegal in nj... unless you possess them in the commission of a felony
Not correct. Lots of people state and re-state that (only illegal if you're committing a crime). The actual statute, however, makes possession generally illegal, but grants exemptions:

2C:39-3f: Any person, other than a LEO or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f of 2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose of dum-dum bullet [...] is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree

Further, 2C:39-3g says the above doesn't apply for possessing HP's in your home, or from transporting them from a place of purchase to your home.


BUT... here's the kicker. The moving exemption, that Brian claims made it legal for him to transport his firearms, is contained in 2C:39-6e - not 2C:39-6f. So, even if it could be established that he was moving, and even if he didn't possess magazines over 15-round capacity, he could STILL be charged with 2C:39-3f, possession of hollow-points.

1stmarine
December 16, 2010, 05:50 PM
I need to read more about this case. If, in fact, this citizen broke any of these arbitrary state or city laws by mistake, there is no doubt the punishment was excessive and totally unnecessary.

The criminals must love all these laws. They give them clearance to steal, rape and kill w/o fear that honest citizens might be able to defend their homes, families and themselves.

I am now more worry about many other things than any gun laws. I am worry about not being able to have an opinion w/o fear. I am worry about being targeted due to a sticker I have in my car or my cultural background.
I am worry about police states. Also young military and deputies with the idea that they are the heavy arm of the law at any cost. The military and police also have families and kids and I am pretty sure they do not want them to grow w/o freedom or in fear.

Remember that not long ago in America it was ok for a Sheriff to order a deputy to beat up African American Citizens? The fights, the struggle. Any deputy should have known better and say, "I will not obey that law". Also just recently remember what happened in Katrina, people were arrested in a big concentration camp against their will when there was pillage, death and disease inside that dome.
There was a barricade over the bridge with a military checkpoint and you could not get out. How did we allow for this to happen people?

Governments are out of control and there is a huge need not just to reduce spending but to limit the powers of legislators with personal popularity agendas, specially when their interests directly collide with the most fundamental rights and principals that have been the great pillars of support for our great nation.

I am a veteran. I have a family and kids and at some point I felt really bad about myself because I was just complaining a lot but actually didn't do much about it. This has changed now and the more I do the more I want to do and the better I feel.

I created this post for whoever is interested in reading about some of the things I am doing and some new ideas to help.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=559899

There is hope but you have to fight. Freedom cannot defend by itself. It needs the work and sacrifice of brave determined citizens.

What have you done so far?

Cheers,
E.

1stmarine
December 16, 2010, 05:57 PM
I need to read more about this case. If, in fact, this citizen broke any of these arbitrary state or city laws by mistake, there is no doubt the punishment was excessive and totally unnecessary.

The criminals must love all these laws. They give them clearance to steel, rape and kill w/o fear that honest citizens might be able to defend their homes, families and themselves.

I am now more worry about many other things than any gun laws. I am worry about not being able to have an opinion w/o fear. I am worry about being targeted due to a sticker I have in my car or my cultural background.
I am worry about police states. Also young military and deputies with the idea that they are the heavy arm of the law at any cost. The military and police also have families and kids and I am pretty sure they do not want them to grow w/o freedom or in fear.

Remember that not long ago in America it was ok for a Sheriff to order a deputy to beat up African American Citizens? Any deputy should have known better and say, "I will not obey that order". Also more recently remember what happened in Katrina, people were arrested in a big concentration camp against their will when there was pillage, death and disease inside that dome.
There was a barricade over the bridge with a military checkpoint and nobody could get out. How did we allow for this to happen people?

Governments are out of control and there is a huge need not just to reduce spending but to limit the powers of majors, governors, judges and all legislators with personal popularity agendas, specially when their interests directly collide with the most fundamental rights and principals that have been the pillars of support for our great nation.

I am a veteran. I have a family and kids and at some point I felt really bad about myself because I was just complaining a lot but actually didn't do much. This has changed now. The more I do the more I want to do and the better I feel.

I created this post for whoever is interested in reading about some of the things I am doing and some new ideas to help.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=559899

There is hope but you have to fight. Freedom cannot defend by itself. It needs the work and sacrifice of brave determined Americans.

So what have you done?

Cheers,
E.

Shooter57
December 17, 2010, 09:22 AM
I feel bad for this guy. I would like too know what he did in the first place to get the police involved and how they knew he had guns and ammo.

mljdeckard
December 17, 2010, 09:55 AM
I sent the governor a very firmly worded email about this.

He was within the law. New Jersey law makes exceptions for people who are moving and/or packing. Even the arresting officer testified that this was the case. THE PRESIDING JUDGE refused to instruct the jury that the law made this exception.

Kim
December 17, 2010, 10:03 PM
I read a newspaper article --do not remember where just a few days ago that Governor Christy would make a decison around Christmas on whether or not he is going to grant a pardon.

1stmarine
December 17, 2010, 10:14 PM
I sent the governor a very firmly worded email about this.

MLJDECKCARD,
How can I help? Where do I send the letter? I live in Communist NY State but it doesn't matter. I will write him too. We need to get this citizen out of jail.

Somebody said that the governor is considering to grant a pardon? It is such an Hippocratic situation. He should get him out of jail ASAP, apologize publicly to him and all the US Citizens and compensate this man for damages and suffering.

Otherwise sue the deputies, the judge and everyone involved for violating his constitutional rights.

Lets stop the police states and the abuses of legislators and law makers.

Cheers,
E.

mljdeckard
December 18, 2010, 01:58 AM
Google New Jersey State governor's office.

And don't let anyone tell you that no one reads these. They read EVERYTHING. Christie was a high-profile election, and he has presidential aspirations. Be polite, but be strong, I told him that his being imprisoned was unacceptable, and he needs to be pardoned to demonstrate to other judges that they cannot throw the law out the window when presiding over cases. (The judge is no longer sitting.) I told him that I cannot ever visit the state of New Jersey as long as the application of law there is so hazardous, and the people are made so unsafe.

mljdeckard
December 20, 2010, 12:59 PM
Tom Gresham said yesterday that Governor Christie's office was going to make an announcement regarding this case soon. If he pardons him in time for Christmas, I will be the biggest cheerleader he has when he runs for president. (And I will email him again and tell him that's why.)

kludge
December 20, 2010, 03:58 PM
Does a pardon mean that the conviction is overturned as opposed to commuting the sentence?

If so a pardon is the only just thing to do in this case.

Tom488
December 20, 2010, 07:00 PM
The Governor has commuted Brian's sentence to time served... he's going to be released, in the next day or two I'd imagine.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/gov_chris_christie_commutes_se.html

It was not a pardon... Brian is still guilty of the three charges he was originally convicted of.

mljdeckard
December 21, 2010, 03:57 AM
I am disappointed that it wasn't a full pardon, and I will tell the governor this.

AirForceShooter
December 21, 2010, 06:58 AM
So, he's still a convicted felon.
Now his mom has to face him.

AFS

wraenking
December 21, 2010, 07:02 AM
Its a step in the right direction, but its not over. He has to win his appeal, which i am sure he will. I want to thank the NJ2AS for all the work they put into this, even though the rally was canceled. We know we cannot stop here. There is more to come so stay tuned!!


www.nj2as.com

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