Does your SD long gun have a light?


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ChristopherG
December 2, 2010, 07:20 PM
Reading another thread about a choice of long-guns for home defense made me wonder about the prevalence of lights on long arms (potentially) used in that capacity. If you keep a long gun loaded and available with the notion that it might be employed for home defense, does it have a light attached?

If so, what is your rifle/carbine/shotgun + weaponlight combo, and how are you satisfied with it? Any strengths or weaknesses of the system to share?

If not, is it just something you haven't considered, or have you practiced/trained to use a handheld light with your long-gun (hint: it's hard), or ... ?

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ChristopherG
December 2, 2010, 07:28 PM
I'll start.

My always-there home defense long-gun is an 870 with a Streamlight TLR-1 attached. The light is attached to a doohickey at the end of the slide, i.e., at the base of the extended mag tube. It's a good light and I have no issues with it EXCEPT that it's not a dedicated Surefire forend, which looks like the way to go for the 870 platform; but for that kind of money, I could get the better part of another AR to put the streamlight on.

As one might guess by my starting the thread, I think a white light is absolutely necessary on a long gun. The experience that drove this home for me was being trained to use a flashlight with the AR in my patrol car. Short summary: It Sucked. I quickly got my own AR for duty use, to which I could attach a TLR-1 (and an Aimpoint--but that's another thread).

Look forward to reading other people's thoughts and experiences.

Jed Carter
December 2, 2010, 07:57 PM
Personaly I think for HD a light just gives away your position, I prefer a handgun with tritium night sights (SIG P226 in .357SIG) or a Mossberg 930 SPX, no light. Now if zombies are just outside I might wish I had a Streamlight.

788Ham
December 2, 2010, 08:05 PM
I'm like Jed, I want them to guess where I am. If they want to kick in the door in the middle of the night to come scavenge, I want them to have as big of a surprise as they've ever had when arriving! :what:

Deanimator
December 2, 2010, 08:06 PM
A long gun is not appropriate in my home for self-defense.
I don't like lights on firearms in a civilian environment.

I use a separate handgun and flashlight.

Shawn Dodson
December 2, 2010, 08:30 PM
My 870 is equipped with a Surefire WeaponLight so I can illuminate a threat to ID it (and the area immediately behind it). I intend to use a verbal challenge in attempt to identify the threat as friend or foe as early in the encounter as possible.

It's also equipped with XS Sight Systems 24/7 Big Dot tritium rifle sights so I can see my sights in low light.

My Glock 19 is fitted with a rail mounted Streamlight M3 and XS Sight Systems 24/7 Big Dot tritium sights for the same reasons.

If I feel the need to quietly investigate a noise I may carry a separate handheld high-intensity flashlight.

My M4s are equipped with SureFire WeaponLights however they're meant as emergency preparedness rifles in the event of a breakdown in law and order after a hurricane or other event.

bigfatdave
December 2, 2010, 08:39 PM
I wonder if I could patent and market a bayonet-lug attachment for standard flashlights?

I would have voted for option 2 and 3 if it were possible, the loaded handgun and light are on my person most of the time, while the long guns are in the cabinet, cleared with loaded mags handy.

There is a flashlight in the cabinet, but it is there because my cabinet lighting sicks, not as a grab-and-go.

KodiakBeer
December 2, 2010, 08:40 PM
Yeah, methinks a light would just be a huge neon arrow pointing to you and saying "Shoot here".

kwelz
December 2, 2010, 08:44 PM
A self defense gun without a light is ineffective at best in a nighttime environment. Night sights don't do any good if you can't identify the target.

And the whole argument that a light just gives away your position has been thoroughly debunked. Learn how to use the tools you have including the light and you will be fine.

Six
December 2, 2010, 08:46 PM
Yeah, methinks a light would just be a huge neon arrow pointing to you and saying "Shoot here".

Fortunately my light turns both on and off.

Old krow
December 2, 2010, 08:46 PM
No, I do not keep one on my long guns. One of my handguns is typically the "go to" gun anyway, but I use a handheld light if I need one.

Nomad, 2nd
December 2, 2010, 08:46 PM
Handgun and rifle and shotgun (Shotgun not out the safe)

All have night sites/lights.

(Ones I use seriously)

Vermonter
December 2, 2010, 08:48 PM
Doesn't have to be on all the time. Flash and move. In my home mine would likely stay off because the dog will identify friend or foe.

browningguy
December 2, 2010, 09:01 PM
I have a Mossy 500 with a light, AR in 5.7x28 with a light, AR in .223 with a light, KelTec Sub 2000 with a light.

Lights make me a much better shooter in the dark, and it gives the advantage of actually knowing what you are shooting. I've actually used mine quite a lot, but only when we go varmint hunting at night at the deer camp.

Nomad, 2nd
December 2, 2010, 09:03 PM
Light gives you the option..

Without the light you do not have the option.

I learned in Faluja the value of a weapons mounted light.

Hatterasguy
December 2, 2010, 09:24 PM
Light? I just plan on opening up, the muzzle flash with light up everyone's world.

Iam2taz
December 2, 2010, 09:35 PM
I don't want a light on my gun. Mainly, I don't want to point my gun at something that I might not want to destroy. What if it is one of my knuckledheaded son's friends banging around in the middle of the night. Kid might not know where the light switch is and make all kinds of noise. This happened one time. - It wasn't the kids fault. He woke up sick. Puking his guts out. He ate some bad chinesee. Trying to find a glass, he dropped it and it broke everywhere. Make a heck of a noise in the middle of the night.

esheato
December 2, 2010, 09:43 PM
Yes, I have a light. Benelli M2 with Surefire forend. I also have a 3 year old that I need to account for and not shoot him by mistake.

I'll take my changes on getting shot/attacked....but I'm not going to assume anything.

Besides, I need a light way more often than I need a gun.

ChristopherG
December 2, 2010, 09:51 PM
I don't want a light on my gun. Mainly, I don't want to point my gun at something that I might not want to destroy.

That there, IMO, is the best and only real reason NOT to have a weapon-mounted light. The way around it is, of course, to use secondary/spillover light for target identification and searching. That's the main benefit of a handgun, to me, in the dark--you can use a flashlight in one hand and point it directly at things WITHOUT pointing your gun (in your other hand) at them, too. But the advantages of a long-gun are so overwhelming that it's worth it to learn to use a weapon-mounted light, no question, to me.

A weapon mounted light makes night time shooting MUCH, MUCH more effective. The objection that it will make you a target appears to completely overlook the problem that you cannot safely shoot at anything in any environment without seeing it. And, dog forbid your home invader should have a light when you don't.

Nomad, 2nd
December 2, 2010, 09:51 PM
I don't want a light on my gun. Mainly, I don't want to point my gun at something that I might not want to destroy. What if it is one of my knuckledheaded son's friends banging around in the middle of the night. Kid might not know where the light switch is and make all kinds of noise. This happened one time. - It wasn't the kids fault. He woke up sick. Puking his guts out. He ate some bad chinesee. Trying to find a glass, he dropped it and it broke everywhere. Make a heck of a noise in the middle of the night.
:scrutiny:
I've got a handheld next to my Glock with TRL1 on my nightstand.

additionally you can point the gun at the ground in the low ready and illuminate the potential threat, or to the side.

Light beam isn't a bullet path.

Again, a weapons mounted light gives you OPTIONS.

Doesn't mean you haveta use it.

I've cleared probably several hundred houses.

Wouldn't be without it.

bigfatdave
December 2, 2010, 10:23 PM
Flash and move.
You wake up with dark-adapted eyes, and should be able to see fairly well, particularly in your familliar home. Once you turn on the light, your pupils will contract and you'll lose the natural nightvision.

Once a light goes on, it is staying on, because now you need it or you'll have to wait for the natural pupil opening.

jdh
December 2, 2010, 10:32 PM
Yes I have lights on the long guns. 1. I want to know what I am about to shoot. 2. It is hard to shoot back with a very bright light in your eyes.

No the mounted light is not a general use light nor a "search" light.

Six
December 2, 2010, 10:34 PM
For those of you without a light...

So you find yourself engaging a BG in or around your home.

After the first shots go off, and you're both ducking to count holes and find that the number hasn't recently and suddenly changed. You find some position to watch and listen.

Now what is the advantage of not having a light?

The BG, if he's still in the fight, has a decent idea of where you are and doesn't need to worry about things like collateral damage. He's free to take full advantage of the lack of cover provided by half inch drywall.

You however won't know whether the next shape that shows up is the BG, a neighbor checking on you, an officer who was in the area, or whatever else.

I understand that you don't want to have a bright bullet magnet, but if you find yourself holding a long gun and needing a light, wouldn't it be terrific to have one handy with the flick of a finger?

The argument seems to be against having a light, the argument should be against using the light inappropriately.

Double Naught Spy
December 2, 2010, 11:07 PM
Let's see, by comparison most handgun calibers and loads are anemic compared to most centerfire rifles or shotguns, so the better power choice isn't the handgun.

Lights can illuminate and provide a point of reference. Of course, handheld lights can as well. Sure, a handheld light can be held away from the body and in a large open dark environment, that certainly could be advantageous. Being able to handhold a light away from the body in the confines of a home interior with all of its corners and halls would be a really nifty skill - not impossible, but more difficult than with a weapon mounted light.

One of the really cool things about having lights on weapons is the ability to use them or not. They are simply another option. One nifty thing about them on home defense guns (long gun or handgun) is that if you need to do something with your weak hand, you don't have to find some place to stash the light, or how quickly, while your weak hand handles the necessary task.

Usually when right-handed shooters talk about using a handheld light, it is with the weak hand. The safety is that it can be held away from the body, usually being lateral from the body or high lateral.

Most bad guys are right handed as well. If they are inexperienced/unskilled shooters, they will likely have a flinch and that flinch will be low and left. So if the home owner is holding the light left or high left, the low left shooting by the bad guy very will may be right on target.

I don't like lights on firearms in a civilian environment.
Well, cops are civilians. If you mean by non-leo and non-military folks, I am not sure that their employment is such that their need to see the opposition in a combative situation is so much greater than our needs to see the opposition that a light would not be beneficial.

Personaly I think for HD a light just gives away your position, ...
Maybe. Then again, there are lots of folks who teach us to do things in such a circumstance that our positions would most definitely be compromised. Think about all those folks teach that teach Shoot, Move, Communicate. Think of all the instructors that teach that you need to give a verbal challenge to an intruder, the verbal challenge being such that the intruder may egress the situation or surrender before you have to shoot and potentially take another person's life that will change your life, forever. The verbal challenge also giving you one last chance to positively identify the perceived intruder as a real intruder. Certainly this was a lesson being taught for years at Thunder Ranch in Texas.

Think about all those who teach that the sound of a pump shotgun will often cause intruders to flee.

Such methods also compromise your position and the element of surprise. It just may be just the ticket to allow the intruder to duck out of sight and setup to ambush you.

Yeah, methinks a light would just be a huge neon arrow pointing to you and saying "Shoot here".

Of course, the light also says to the bad guy, "You are spotted and I can shoot you."

If you think about it long enough, there are pros and cons to just about every option in a self defense situation and what is a beneficial in one type of situation may be a detrimental in another.

sprice
December 2, 2010, 11:10 PM
I use a long gun with a light in the other hand.

16" bcm ar with an led junior streamlight. The light's pretty cheap, but it works.

Nomad, 2nd
December 2, 2010, 11:10 PM
Yeah, methinks a light would just be a huge neon arrow pointing to you and saying "Shoot here".


Have you ever unexpectedly been 'flashed' in the dark with a 100 Lumen + light?


:D

Try it.

Narwhal
December 2, 2010, 11:12 PM
Yes.

My M14 has a TLR-1s and a tritium front sight.

My Mossberg 930 SPX also has a TLR-1.

Hanzo581
December 2, 2010, 11:15 PM
My lights on my weapons are not for searching the house, they are for target recognition before pulling the trigger, by the time you see the light it means my weapon is pointed at you and I am deciding whether or not to shoot.

So lights do not give away you position in every circumstance. AND flashing someone in the face with 100 lumens in a pitch black house can be a great deterrent on its own.

To answer the question, my 870 has a surefire forend, and my XD45 has a TLR-1.

DoubleTapDrew
December 2, 2010, 11:31 PM
Have you ever unexpectedly been 'flashed' in the dark with a 100 Lumen + light?

You can just shoot at that huge purple blob thats taking up 90% of your vision :p
weapon mounted light + momentary switch. maybe a handheld light in the pocket if I have that kind of time.

JTHunter
December 2, 2010, 11:46 PM
Like several other posters, my primary HD gun is a handgun with a light in my weak hand. I have enough light in the house (unless the power is out) to see forms but not colors. If I see something moving, I'll line up on it first (from cover) then flash them.
Long guns give them too much of an opportunity to grab the barrel and also make it hard to turn quickly in a narrow hallway.

Nomad, 2nd
December 2, 2010, 11:56 PM
Long guns give them too much of an opportunity to grab the barrel and also make it hard to turn quickly in a narrow hallway.


I thought that... at my first CQB class...

Few more...


And such...

Then many houses in Iraq.

You are wrong, but it takes training.

CraigC
December 3, 2010, 12:52 AM
A self defense gun without a light is ineffective at best in a nighttime environment. Night sights don't do any good if you can't identify the target.

And the whole argument that a light just gives away your position has been thoroughly debunked. Learn how to use the tools you have including the light and you will be fine.
Exactly! Having a weaponlight gives you options, being without, leaves you with few.


I don't want a light on my gun. Mainly, I don't want to point my gun at something that I might not want to destroy.
That's easy and fairly obvious, don't press the trigger.


Long guns give them too much of an opportunity to grab the barrel and also make it hard to turn quickly in a narrow hallway.
IMHO, that opinion is formed and perpetuated from the fact that most folks only have access to an indoor pistol range and thus, the handgun is the only thing they're able to practice with and ultimately, what they think is best for defense. It simply isn't true. Any threat who has ahold of the barrel of your rifle is not in the best of positions.

KodiakBeer
December 3, 2010, 01:10 AM
The argument seems to be against having a light, the argument should be against using the light inappropriately.

That's a good point, but... I just can't imagine wanting to turn it on at any point. As soon as you turn it on you're exposed to both the person you are pointing it at, and anybody else present that you are not pointing it at. Unless you live in a cave you're going to be able to see pretty well with just the ambient light - until you illuminate something and lose your night vision.

I regularly walk into a hunting area in complete darkness without ever turning on a light. You can see quite well under those circumstances. Try it.

Jed Carter
December 3, 2010, 05:06 AM
The only "flash" they will see is my muzzle flash. There are good arguments for having a flashlight, after you are blinded by your own muzzle flare, but the first encounter should be a total suprise to the perps. Lights are for those that want an intruder to leave, I'm not timid I will give them the same chance they gave me, no chance at all, no quarter, no hesitation. In my home I really do not need illumination, It has a lot of windows, this discusion is a lot like paper or plastic, metal vs poly, rail no rail. There are at least two different viewpoints, both are correct for their supporters

kwelz
December 3, 2010, 07:55 AM
I think an important question that hasn't been asked is this.

How many people here have been involved in night shooting or night training?
I have done limited night time training. On a clear, moonlit night it is hard to make out targets. Once the first round goes off your night vision is done. Without a light you are in trouble once that happens.

uspJ
December 3, 2010, 10:13 AM
I have lights on all my home defense long guns and handguns. The light will compensate for loss of night vision, it can blind attackers and most importantly help ID the threat. There is no rule that you have to leave it on, or that you can't move and relocate once you used it. Those who don't have a light on their guns do you use a handheld flashlight? I keep one of those on me as well and can easily transition between the two when using a handgun. I have them on my long guns because once I feel the need to use it I will be in a defensive position. I have them on my handgun as well as a handheld light for checking bumps in the night.

statelineblues
December 3, 2010, 10:44 AM
weapon mounted light + momentary switch

Again, a weapons mounted light gives you OPTIONS.

Doesn't mean you have to use it.

I have been trained in handgun-strong hand/flashlight-weak hand, and find having a weapon mounted light much easier to use.
My HD is a Rem 870 12ga with UTG Tactical Light.

CraigC
December 3, 2010, 11:47 AM
That's a good point, but... I just can't imagine wanting to turn it on at any point. As soon as you turn it on you're exposed to both the person you are pointing it at, and anybody else present that you are not pointing it at.
You turn on the light and your target is illuminated and YOU gain the tactical advantage.

Unless you live in a cave you're going to be able to see pretty well with just the ambient light - until you illuminate something and lose your night vision.
And you are comfortable in indentifying a threat in the dark, with only ambient light and making the decision to press the trigger on a live human being based on what you see?

IMHO, too many folks have put way too little thought into this.

Snap-Shot
December 3, 2010, 12:20 PM
Definitely not, nor do I attach lasers to my gun.

My reasoning, is pretty simple. Attaching extra equipment to firearms severely effects their natural pointing ability, making them muzzle heavy and sluggish to bring on target. In my experience, anything qualifying as CQB (like a home invasion), is going to be a game of point and shoot. The faster you are able to hit your target the more likely it is that you will survive. Then there's the already mentioned "shoot me, I'm right here" factor. Clearing a house, is markedly different from a typical scenario taking place inside a home. You are on the defensive (yes, you would be taking an offensive approach, but it's they who are on your turf, thus your response is more of a counter offensive), you probably aren't wearing body armor, and you probably don't have three buddies who are armed to the teeth backing you up. But you do have advantages. In my house, I'm familiar enough with my surroundings that if I had to I could navigate it in total darkness and do so quietly. However, in reality there's quite a bit of ambient light, plenty to shoot by anyhow. As for target recognition; if it's not me, and it's not my wife or the dog, then it must be a target. And in my state, that qualifies as legal justification for whatever force may be necessary...

CoRoMo
December 3, 2010, 12:32 PM
I'm always surprised by the numbers of people who think a long gun will only give the attacker the ability to grab the barrel and pull it out of your hands. Some myths just won't die. Or maybe this speaks to their lack of skills, inabilities, and ignorance. I don't know.

Also, those who don't know how to use a weapon light or laser sight; always surprising. Although the part that I can agree with them on is, since they haven't trained for darkness and don't know how to properly use a weapon light, then yeah, it'll probably just give away your position and the intruder will shoot you. Without training and knowledge, you don't stand much of a chance in the dark to begin with.

KodiakBeer
December 3, 2010, 12:35 PM
You turn on the light and your target is illuminated and YOU gain the tactical advantage.

Unless there's more than one of them. Even if there is only one person, you've just given yourself away and now the odds have gone from in your favor (you're hidden) to even - you're both exposed.

CraigC
December 3, 2010, 12:52 PM
Unless there's more than one of them. Even if there is only one person, you've just given yourself away and now the odds have gone from in your favor (you're hidden) to even - you're both exposed.
As long as you are okay with shooting somebody in the dark, without being able to properly identify them as a threat, proceed as normal.

The advantages far outweight the disadvantages, real or perceived and it is my opinion that most of the detractors have never used a mounted weaponlight.

KodiakBeer
December 3, 2010, 12:54 PM
As long as you are okay with shooting somebody in the dark, without being able to properly identify them as a threat, proceed as normal.

I'm not going to shoot anyone until I've ID'd them. I just don't see any advantage in throwing away my advantage by IDing myself to them.

kwelz
December 3, 2010, 01:24 PM
And in the dark how are you going to identify your target?

I still stand by my statement that the people who won't use a light are those with the least actual experience. No offense meant but reality plays out different than the scenarios we often play out in our head

A dark house is not someplace I want to be without a weapon mounted light. Handheld lights present their own problems, and In the chaos of a fight the bad guy is not going to have time to calmly identify you and target you from your light source.

My reasoning, is pretty simple. Attaching extra equipment to firearms severely effects their natural pointing ability, making them muzzle heavy and sluggish to bring on target.

You don't have much trigger time using lights or other equipment do you? Sure it is possible to load up a gun with to much junk. But a light on a pistol or a light, laser and VFG on a carbine don't change the balance to where they can't be used effectively. In fact a well designed carbine will be balanced properly with them on there.

ChristopherG
December 3, 2010, 06:03 PM
I still stand by my statement that the people who won't use a light are those with the least actual experience.

I have a similar suspicion, though I'd phrase it a little more delicately: I'd bet those who won't use a light don't have much experience in either training or competition shooting in low or no light. For example: the idea that retaining a gun's 'natural pointing ability' by not accessorizing it is more important than the improvement to shooting given by a weapon-mounted light suggests a lack of the kinds of structured, timed, measured and evaluated shooting you do in either training or competition.

It took me exactly 1 (one) IDPA night match to realize lighting was EVERYTHING when shooting in the dark or near dark. Numerous subsequent trainings have driven it home.

Nomad, 2nd
December 3, 2010, 06:09 PM
Does anyone see a problem with HAVING a weapons mounted light and a handheld... which gives you the OPTION to use them if you want?

(Other than the guy who thinks it'll 'slow you down'... which... sorry, must agree with "Get some experence")

I like options.

Why limit them.

waterhouse
December 3, 2010, 06:19 PM
Attaching extra equipment to firearms severely effects their natural pointing ability making them muzzle heavy and sluggish to bring on target.

Really? An 870 weighs around 7 pounds. Most ARs are right around that weight as well. A weapon light can weigh under 4 ounces. I'd wager that blindfolded you couldn't pick up and swing a long gun and tell whether it had a Surefire X300 or similar somewhere near the end

ConstitutionCowboy
December 3, 2010, 06:25 PM
My home defense "long" gun isn't very long. It's a beretta CX4-Storm in 45ACP. It has a light on the left side and a red dot scope on top. I just clear the path for my wife and her Mares Leg in 44-40.

Woody

10-96
December 3, 2010, 06:43 PM
Does your home defense long gun have a light?
No, when I smoked, it always made me light my own cigarette.

Seriously, I always tend to dislike the general way threads go when it comes to low light shooting. It SEEMS that folks tend to generally accept that shooting is either full light or completely pitch dark. Very seldom is it pitch dark around where I live/stay- I most always sleep in dark areas and have some kind of light on in possible access areas. (Intruder is illuminated and has deminished night vision)- this is planning one's home, apartment, motel, etc with some degree of tactical forethought. I would not choose to have a light on my weapon. I train to fire whatever I choose for HD with a handheld flashlight because, if a flashlight is out within frequent reach and useage, I know if it will work. Whereas, if I have a weapon mounted flashlight, I don't know that I would personally have the forethought to check it's functionality on a regualr basis.

oldfool
December 3, 2010, 06:57 PM
just cannot help but be curious
how many here who posted in favor of having a light on a long gun (or a short gun) have ever once used the light to advantage during an actual home invasion ?

kwelz
December 3, 2010, 07:02 PM
Oldfool, I doubt 99% of the people here have never been involved in a self defense shoot in any situation. But many of us have had training of some sort to prepare for the situation.

And I can tell you this. On a Clear night with a full moon you can't make out targets very well. Inside your house will only be worse.

M1key
December 3, 2010, 07:08 PM
Situations for each of us may be very different. Like several have said, the light gives you an option, you don't have to use it. My CAR-15 wears a TLR-1.

Also, in my area of the country, I may have two and FOUR legged critters roaming my backyard. You know...javelinas, coyotes, foxes, skunks, maybe a mountain lion. A light may actually be enough deterrent to chase them away.

Good luck.

M

sniper5
December 3, 2010, 07:16 PM
I have a Fenix TK12 with a pressure switch attached to my 20 gauge 500 Mossberg with 2 3/4 inch #3 Buck . Short barrel, night sights, quick adjust 2 point sling kept parade ground tight unless I need my hands free and a full reload on the stock. Fast, light, comfortable, fits me and has never failed. The switch has constant on and pressure switch mode and I leave it set to strobe. A half twist gives me constant at 240 Lumens. I carry the same model light in my car and have been hit with the strobe at night. Nauseating/dizzying/blinding and almost physically painful to the eyes. Being behind it is just like watching an old black and white movie. I've shot at an empty indoor range (friends) with the lights off and dark as a cave. No problems with target acquisition and ID with the strobe and unbelievably bright.

For others, use whatever you are comfortable with. But remember, like a laser, just because you have it doesn't mean you have to leave it on.

KodiakBeer
December 3, 2010, 07:36 PM
I still stand by my statement that the people who won't use a light are those with the least actual experience.

Except that I actually did this for many years... So, I guess you're wrong on that.

Nomad, 2nd
December 3, 2010, 07:54 PM
just cannot help but be curious
how many here who posted in favor of having a light on a long gun (or a short gun) have ever once used the light to advantage during an actual home invasion ?

I have.

but I was doing the home invasions.;)

Six
December 3, 2010, 08:30 PM
I think it might be better to discuss the pros and cons of lights without questioning the motives or experience of the other posters.

I have no idea of what their house looks like. My hallway is surrounded by bedrooms, at the far end of the hallway is a living room. The living room has a large window. Outside the window is a very large tree.

My house is dark without artificial lights, and I prefer to have a light that I control rather than relying on the BG not to kick the night lights out.

I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

Same goes for a light.

Blue Brick
December 3, 2010, 08:32 PM
light? I just plan on opening up, the muzzle flash with light up everyone's world.
lmao :)

FruitCake
December 4, 2010, 10:41 PM
The Streamlight TLR1-S that I have mounted on my 9mm handgun and 870 doesn't have to be pointed at the possible threat in any way whatsoever at all. The light is very bright and will light up any room even pointing the weapon at the floor. If you have to point the light at the possible threat to see who or what it is then get rid of it cause its junk in my opinion.Plus it has a momentary or steady on switch.

Travis McGee
December 4, 2010, 10:59 PM
White light and visible red laser.

Double Naught Spy
December 5, 2010, 07:56 AM
just cannot help but be curious
how many here who posted in favor of having a light on a long gun (or a short gun) have ever once used the light to advantage during an actual home invasion ?

Well, the number that have will only be slightly lower than the number of those that have actually used a long gun during a home invasion.

FROGO207
December 5, 2010, 07:57 AM
No need to. All my entrances and the hallway to my bedroom have emergency lighting that will come on at motion or power failure. They hook to my battery bank that has a 4 day reserve. After the need arises I may mount the light on the 500. My SD handgun does have the laser and light however.

Creature
December 5, 2010, 08:16 AM
I keep a light on my carbine which I might very well have to use for a HD-type situation. I can think of many reasons that my family may get separated from my side, even for an instant, in which a light may prove very useful. The Streamlight TLR on my carbine adds virtually no extra weight so whether I use it or not, it is handy to have just in case I need it.

I dont keep a light on any of my handguns.

http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/12/63/91/01/arbush10.jpg

natman
December 5, 2010, 11:08 AM
Personaly I think for HD a light just gives away your position....
Somebody always comes up with this whenever lights are mentioned. HD is NOT combat. You simply can't blast away at a dim figure across a dark room. If you do it will turn out to be your son sneaking in after curfew, your neighbor coming home from the bar through the door you left unlocked etc. You have to identify your target first.

Besides, the light has a switch. You don't have to turn it on if the situation doesn't call for it.

Jed Carter
December 5, 2010, 11:53 AM
After reading the different arguments for and against having a weapon mounted light, I have come to the conclusion: Tritium night sights are a must, and a light is a good "option to have". I am going to get a good weapon light, possibly with a strobe feature, I am going to try it out in the Practical Shooting Pits at my gun club. If my shooting does not suffer then I will probably attach one to my HD pistol. I still maintain that the first encounter should be a suprise, lethal counterattack, then use the light to make sure the threat is neutralized. I would guess that if the attacker is not alone, the others are heading for the exits, if not then the light will help to confirm the next target. It has been said if invaders have entered your home you have already failed in securing yourselves. I would recommend other security measures besides your wits, weapons and tactics. First good locks on all doors and windows, make the attacker break in making a lot of noise. Storm doors with impact resistant glass (tempered glass) are on all my entrances. My Bedford stone home has the high tilt out windows that would very dificult to enter even if opened, all are locked and double pane glass. Motion sensor lighting (outside is common) inside home's common areas, could give the defender a definite advantage, and are cheaper to acquire than a good tactical light. Be proactive, be creative, like a steel security door to bedroom ( I don't have one ), yet. I do not have a tactical weapon light, yet.

Creature
December 5, 2010, 12:16 PM
It has been said if invaders have entered your home you have already failed in securing yourselves.

True....castles (fortified positions) have been stormed by invaders for a very long time.

Zach S
December 5, 2010, 03:09 PM
All of my defensive long guns have lights. I put a surefire fore end on my 590, I tried a lot of less expensive options before I bought the fore end, and wished I got the fore end first. I do use the less expensive options on my other long guns though. My AR15 has a G3 mounted to the quad rail, and I have a G2 mounted to the handguard of my 7.62 Saiga.

On a side note, my beater/car/truck/HD pistol, a G19, also has a light.

possum
December 5, 2010, 04:17 PM
yes. All of my guns used for HD/ SD have lights.

Snap-Shot
December 5, 2010, 06:36 PM
Really? Four ounces of weight won't make a difference in how a gun handles? And point shooting is an ineffective short-range combat shooting technique?

I can feel the balance shift after firing and chambering another round in my 20 gauge quail gun and it's even more noticeable in my "house" gun (an 870 Marine) with a 6 round mag. That's less than half the weight and it's placed a lot closer to the center of balance. A well balanced weapon is simply faster to maneuver than a poorly balanced one. For example, handle a Colt SAA and a Ruger Blackhawk. See how long it takes to get the gun on target. They're both good guns, but the Colt is faster. Why? It's a very well balanced weapon, whereas the Ruger is a pig.

Same goes for shotguns and rifles too. Even .577 Nitro double rifles tend to point like a birdgun, despite weighing upwards of 15 lbs. Why? because when there's a 1.7 second window to shoulder and deliver a shot (or even better two) accurately before getting pounded by 12,000 pounds of angry pachyderm, pointing that rifle like a shotgun is the only method that won't get you killed. And, if you shoot a shotgun properly, you're really focused on the target and not the gun. If you can see the target, you can hit your target.

A well balanced gun, coupled with good reflexive fire training produces lightning fast hits even under poor conditions. It works when there isn't much light or the shooter is startled. It bypasses the reactions that makes you miss. It's been in DoD training manuals for nearly 70 years and is still preferred for sudden close range encounters. Huh.

I'm not saying lights aren't a good thing, but I much prefer them seperate from my guns.

kwelz
December 5, 2010, 06:50 PM
Really? Four ounces of weight won't make a difference in how a gun handles? And point shooting is an ineffective short-range combat shooting technique?

Actually correct on both counts. If 4oz makes a difference then you are not controlling the gun, the gun is controlling you.

Double Naught Spy
December 5, 2010, 09:17 PM
A well balanced gun, coupled with good reflexive fire training produces lightning fast hits even under poor conditions. It works when there isn't much light or the shooter is startled. It bypasses the reactions that makes you miss. It's been in DoD training manuals for nearly 70 years and is still preferred for sudden close range encounters. Huh.

Reflex fire training? According to the manuals, it isn't enough to get the training. The training has to be repeated frequently as reflexive fire skills are perishable and lost quickly. Huh.

Reflexive fire training provides the fundamental skills required to conduct short-range marksmanship. It involves the practical application of all four of the fundamentals of SRM. All soldiers must receive a go on the task Conduct Reflexive Firing, before proceeding with training. Reflexive firing should be conducted as refresher training as often as possible to insure that soldier's skills are always at the highest possible level. This is a perishable skill that must be constantly reinforced.

So who do you envision beiing fully up to speed on reflexive fire training?

Your average home defender? Nope.
Your average High Road member? Nope. Both your average home defender and most forum members are not only not going to have the necessary proficiency, but of those who do shoot regularly don't have ranges that will allow for defensive style shooting practice and where it is allowed, very few places will allow folks to practice in low light.

Your average cop? Nope.
Your average military person. Nope.

Who then? SWAT-type LEOs and soldiers either prepping to go in country or soldiers already in country where there are hostilities.

And what about having that well balanced gun? After seeing what a lot of SWAT type officers carry/use and configurations of various long guns being used by our military, a lot of those highly trained folks are not going into conflict with well balanced guns.

No doubt that being highly trained in reflexive fire and having continual participation in reflexive fire training can and should be beneficial to those in that position. The rest of us are going to have to compensate in various ways to make those necessary shots.

brandon_mcg
December 5, 2010, 09:30 PM
yep, i do. not only is it useful for target acquisition, but it also quite blinding in a dark house. so if there is a home intruder, that bright white light may be the last thing they see. mounted on a youth model 870.

h20man
December 5, 2010, 10:15 PM
Home defense guns are a Remington 870 and a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm. The M&P has a Streamlight TLR-1 mounted on it. I have other guns but the listed are handy for SD. I strongly prefer not to have a hand tied up with holding a light.

clance
December 5, 2010, 10:24 PM
I'm like Jed, I want them to guess where I am. If they want to kick in the door in the middle of the night to come scavenge, I want them to have as big of a surprise as they've ever had when arriving! :what:

I agree with 788Ham and Jed Carter lights only give your position away. First off you shouldn't be moving through your house if you believe that there is a intruder in the first place. Doing so only provides a opportunity for the intruder to get the drop on you! Stay put and defending your position is a better strategy seeing that you don't know where the intruder is but they might know where you are.

If you have to move (a child in another room) then you have the advantage of knowning your home where the intruder doesn't, no sense in lighting it up for them and show them your location. Personally, with the cost of III Gen. nightvision equipment not being that expensive. I've pickup a ITT monocular to allow me to move covertly through my house or wait in ambush. Of course nightsights are a must and extremely easy to see through night vision.

Needless to say the only lights that the intruder will see is the muzzle flash and then the light at the end of the tunnel.

taliv
December 5, 2010, 10:39 PM
not having a light on an SD gun borders on negligent imho. i don't buy the "give away my position" stuff AT ALL. i understand why people think that, but my opinion is it's based on a set of assumptions that are wildly improbable.

the OP asked about setups. my current and former are below. i don't like cabling running all over my gun. the regular push-button tail caps work for me. in the former,

btw, i also have a streamlight on my HD pistol

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6091/sr15a.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4938/srb.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/276/rracmta.jpg

natman
December 6, 2010, 03:38 AM
Really? Four ounces of weight won't make a difference in how a gun handles? And point shooting is an ineffective short-range combat shooting technique?

I can feel the balance shift after firing and chambering another round in my 20 gauge quail gun and it's even more noticeable in my "house" gun (an 870 Marine) with a 6 round mag. .......

I'm not saying lights aren't a good thing, but I much prefer them seperate from my guns.

The purpose of the light is target IDENTIFICATION, not target acquisition.

There's a certain amount of truth to the balance issue. I have to laugh when I see some junk festooned "Tactical" shotgun that must weigh 11 pounds, most of it clustered on the end of the muzzle. The things are so imbalanced that you could hardly hold one on target, much less follow one. However, we're not talking about shooting tournament skeet here either. If you are so sensitive that the imbalance caused by a 4 oz light is going to cause you to miss targets at HD range, then you had better leave it off.

BTW, how do you plan to hold your separate light while swinging your finely balanced shotgun?

natman
December 6, 2010, 03:39 AM
Really? Four ounces of weight won't make a difference in how a gun handles? And point shooting is an ineffective short-range combat shooting technique?

I can feel the balance shift after firing and chambering another round in my 20 gauge quail gun and it's even more noticeable in my "house" gun (an 870 Marine) with a 6 round mag. .......

I'm not saying lights aren't a good thing, but I much prefer them seperate from my guns.

The purpose of the light is target IDENTIFICATION, not aiming.

There's a certain amount of truth to the balance issue. I have to laugh when I see some junk festooned "Tactical" shotgun that must weigh 11 pounds, most of it clustered on the end of the muzzle. The things are so imbalanced that you could hardly hold one on target, much less follow one. However, we're not talking about shooting tournament skeet here either. If you are so sensitive that the imbalance caused by a 4 oz light is going to cause you to miss targets at HD range, then you had better leave it off.

BTW, how do you plan to hold your separate light while swinging your finely balanced shotgun?

Nomad, 2nd
December 6, 2010, 04:21 AM
It's not the HOLDING... I'm wondering how he's gonna work:

The "Trigger hand"
The hand-held light
AND THE PUMP!:D

JohnBiltz
December 6, 2010, 04:50 AM
I don't got to bed until 4:30 at the earliest in the winter and about 7:00 AM in the summer. I generally have bumps in the daylight not bumps in the night and by 5:00 there are people moving around outside going to work. The area outside is well lighted. So I don't really feel the need to be putting lights on everything. I do keep a good light next to the bed though.

A.H. Fox
December 6, 2010, 10:05 AM
I now hit the light switch on the wall, my wife gets mad when I toss a mini flare.:uhoh:

M2 Carbine
December 6, 2010, 11:11 AM
Does your SD long gun have a light?

Yes, as do all my HD handguns.
I use the Streamlight TLR-2 laser light.
I practice quite often in low light and darkness (home range), so I understand what works the best (for me). Nothing comes close to a gun mounted laser/light for speed and accuracy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/M4withStreamlight.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/870stockTLR2.jpg

oneounceload
December 6, 2010, 11:21 AM
I voted no as I have enough ambient light from outside, the voltage vampires inside, (amazing how those LED appliance clocks can light up the dark), and no kids at home any more - that makes target ID easy for me. There is a small LED light on the nightstand, but that is more for power outages

If you can see easily enough, not having a light is not negligible as previously mentioned

benEzra
December 6, 2010, 12:08 PM
Unless you live in a cave you're going to be able to see pretty well with just the ambient light - until you illuminate something and lose your night vision.
You may be able to see well enough to shoot. You will probably not be able to see well enough to identify.

The thing is, if you can see the intruder, the intruder can most certainly see you, too. And given that a disproportionate number of violent criminals are in their twenties, the intruder will see in the dark like a cat compared to the average thirtysomething to fiftysomething homeowner. And unlike the homeowner, the intruder doesn't have to wonder if the other shape in the darkness is a threat vs. a family member.

I regularly walk into a hunting area in complete darkness without ever turning on a light. You can see quite well under those circumstances. Try it.
I know you can see well enough to navigate (unless it's an overcast moonless night). But it would be unusual to be able to see well enough to identify a silhouette or assess whether they're a threat, particularly indoors.

As others have pointed out, having a light doesn't mean you have to have it on when you don't need it. It just means you have a light when you do need it.

92trunk
December 6, 2010, 12:45 PM
I have a light on both my AR & my 870 but as oneounceload stated my living situations wont really require I use it but its good to know its there if I need it

RevolvingGarbage
December 6, 2010, 12:50 PM
I don't have a light mounted to my main HD long arm (Pardner 12gauge pump), but I do have a flashlight handy in the same spot as my revolver. The plan being, if I need both light and weapon, I pick up the revolver and flashlight, and if I don't need light I pick up the shotgun by its self. I wouldn't hesitate to have a light mounted to the shotgun, I just haven't got hold of a decent flashlight/mount yet.

SSN Vet
December 6, 2010, 01:50 PM
no lights....yet...

The Crimson trace vertical fore-grip with laser and light combined looks very tempting, however.

Price prohibitive for me at this point in time....

therewolf
December 6, 2010, 02:28 PM
I'm not seeing how a light/lazer at the end of a long gun is easily switched on and off in a HD situation, leading to the ultimate mistake of leaving it on at the worst of times.

I have the reputation of having the disposition of a grouchy bear when suddenly awakened.

If you break into my house in the middle of the night, I think the least of your problems is whether or not I have a light on the end of my gun.

You'll probably be LUCKY if I shoot you.

Snap-Shot
December 6, 2010, 03:07 PM
I believe the original poster asked if your gun had a light and why/why not. Mine does not, and I explained why. I shoot sporting clays and practice regularly (at least twice a week excluding hunting seasons, more if I have the time) with it, and I work on point shooting with an airsoft gun almost every evening. It's done wonders for my scores both on the course and in the field. As for target identification, like I said, I know where my wife is, and I have no children, so that only leaves intruders or the dog. I think even in the dark I can tell the difference between my German Shepherd (though I really doubt he'd let anyone in the house without one helluva struggle) and an intruder...

Really, I don't see why people are getting so worked up, it works for me and that's what the guy asked.

Oh, and it's not a sensitivity or control issue, just an annoyance. Good guns feel like good guns and cheap guns, well... There's a reason people exuberant amounts for well tuned competition grade guns.

waterhouse
December 6, 2010, 03:37 PM
I'm not seeing how a light/lazer at the end of a long gun is easily switched on and off in a HD situation, leading to the ultimate mistake of leaving it on at the worst of times.

I don't know about lasers, but many lights have a pressure sensitive tail switch. I set my light up so that it is about 1/10" in front of my natural grip on my support hand (similar to taliv's last picture in post 74). It is very easy to apply pressure to the back of the light when I want it on and remove pressure when I want it off.

OregonJohnny
December 6, 2010, 04:01 PM
Have you ever unexpectedly been 'flashed' in the dark with a 100 Lumen + light?

I have been purposely flashed in the dark with a 120 lumen Surefire E2DL, to see what it would be like for an intruder or opponent if I were to employ this light in a defensive/target acquisition scenario. Believe me, you see nothing but white. No center, no periphery, just white. If you flash an intruder in the face with a powerful focused flashlight in a pitch black house, you are not "giving away your position", so much as you are temporarily blinding them, which is a huge advantage.

I agree with others who say that the decision should not be whether or not to have a light on your home defense weapon, but how and when to use that light. Options are always a good thing.

benEzra
December 6, 2010, 04:38 PM
I'm not seeing how a light/lazer at the end of a long gun is easily switched on and off in a HD situation, leading to the ultimate mistake of leaving it on at the worst of times.
Lights intended for weapon use only stay on as long as you are touching the pressure switch. Release the pressure, the light goes out. There is sometimes a separate switch for "turn on and stay on" if you wish to.

On a Surefire, the button in the center of the tailcap is momentary-on only; rotating the tailcap turns the light on like a regular flashlight. If you want a half-second of light, you hold the tailcap button for half a second.

therewolf
December 6, 2010, 04:49 PM
So, to turn on a "tactical" light, or turn it off, you have to let go of the rifle/shotgun with one hand, reach up, push a button, grab the gun again, then to switch it off you have to do the same, or hold it on?

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this? Pistol, separate flashlight.

If you need a laser to hit somebody within the walls of your home, you can afford bodyguards...

Zach S
December 6, 2010, 04:56 PM
So, to turn on a "tactical" light, or turn it off, you have to let go of the rifle/shotgun with one hand, reach up, push a button, grab the gun again, then to switch it off you have to do the same, or hold it on?
No, all I have to do is move the thumb of my support hand. Its less complicated than turning the high-beams on or off in my cars.

waterhouse
December 6, 2010, 04:57 PM
So, to turn on a "tactical" light, or turn it off, you have to let go of the rifle/shotgun with one hand, reach up, push a button, grab the gun again, then to switch it off you have to do the same, or hold it on?

Absolutely not. Go look at the last picture in post 74. There is a flashlight mounted on the rail. That flashlight is turned on by putting pressure on the end, right where your hand grips. Your hand never comes off of the gun, and stays in the shooting position.

Go to about 3:30 in the video and watch them turning on the light with their shooting grip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aPjNaTlyu0

taliv
December 6, 2010, 05:02 PM
a note about the pics in #74.

first, i'm left-handed

on the top rifle, i hold it with a 3gun style grip and my thumb is positioned on the rear of the light (above the barrel). the light even acts as a reference point so my hand always goes to the same spot

on the bottom rifle, with the VFG, i use a choking-the-chicken grip, which puts my thumb again right behind the light, which this time is below the barrel

M2 Carbine
December 6, 2010, 05:03 PM
I'm not seeing how a light/laser at the end of a long gun is easily switched on and off in a HD situation, leading to the ultimate mistake of leaving it on at the worst of times.

When holding my AR or Remington 870 (above) normally my left forefinger is, or can be resting on the laser/light switch. Pushed one way the laser/light stays on. Pushed and held the other way the laser/light only stays on as long as the switch is held. I seldom, if ever, leave the light or laser on.

The Streamlight TLR-2 has a toggle switch that can be set to light only, laser only or light and laser. Mine stay on laser/light. When the light is turned on the laser dot in the middle of the light shows exactly where the bullet will hit.
So, if necessary, a split second after identifying the threat, bullets or Buckshot can be accurately hitting the red dot.

For instance,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Backyardrangeatnight.jpg

About 25 yards, from the hip.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/SWMP22lightandlaserinthedark.jpg

The target area in daylight.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Backyardrange1010.jpg

OregonJohnny
December 6, 2010, 05:29 PM
On a Surefire, the button in the center of the tailcap is momentary-on only; rotating the tailcap turns the light on like a regular flashlight. If you want a half-second of light, you hold the tailcap button for half a second.

On some Surefire models, such as the original 6P and G2, yes.

Others, like the E2DL, and the new "budget" Surefires - the 6PX Pro and G2X Pro, have tailcaps that you press for momentary on, then push further to click on permanently. This is my preferred user interface. A light tap of the rear switch blinks the light, or a full press on the switch turns it on permanently. The E2DL comes on high first (now 200 lumens), then low when you turn it off then on again. The new 6PX Pro and G2X Pro come on low first (15 lumens), then high second (200). Not ideal, IMO, for a "tactical" flashlight. If I really, really need high mode, I want it with the very first press of the switch. Or, better yet, a single-mode light such as the dedicated Surefire weapon lights.

Cosmoline
December 6, 2010, 05:31 PM
I don't want a light on my gun. Mainly, I don't want to point my gun at something that I might not want to destroy.

And I don't want to shoot something I can't see and identify with 100% clarity. Just because you have a weapon mounted light doesn't mean you can't have other illumination sources.

What's the alternative with a long gun? Use a mag light, then set the mag light down and shoot in the dark? It makes no sense.

As for target identification, like I said, I know where my wife is, and I have no children, so that only leaves intruders or the dog. I think even in the dark I can tell the difference between my German Shepherd (though I really doubt he'd let anyone in the house without one helluva struggle) and an intruder...

You don't know that. The shape could be a violent intruder, or a harmless drunk neighbor, or your wife due to a mixup. Stuff like that happens all the time, and to shoot at a living person you aren't 100% certain about is taking a massive risk.

bigfatdave
December 6, 2010, 05:38 PM
What's the alternative with a long gun? Use a mag light, then set the mag light down and shoot in the dark? It makes no sense.


That's why I attached some lights to throwing knives, you can just flip it into the ceiling or the target, depending on the desired outcome.

spraay
December 6, 2010, 08:38 PM
Both of my home defense arms (carbine and pistol) have lights. I like having the option.

SP

AKElroy
December 6, 2010, 08:55 PM
My Winnie defender has a TLR2 laser/light combo attached. I need to confirm the target in a house full of kids; I feel that priority outweighs the tactical dissadvantage the light provides as far as ID'ing my position.

That, and it's good medicine for blasting coon's out of the trees @ night.

Rexster
December 7, 2010, 02:53 AM
For quite a number of years, my duty/SD/HD shotguns ran Surefire forends with the built-in lights. (I own my duty weapons.) My wife's 870 still has one on it. I later moved to a GG&G forend, which has a short piece of rail, upon which an X200 is sometimes perched. I am now transitioning to an AR15 for duty/SD/HD, and it will have at least an X200 on it, probably something more substantial later. I still consider my Surefire LX2 Lumamax to be my primary light for many things, including searching, but at the moment it is needed, nothing beats a light mounted on the long weapon. Even if found justified or otherwise legally excusable, shooting an unintended person is not something I want burdening my mind.

FWIW, I have worked for a big-city PD for 27 years now, and counting, with 26 of those years on night shift patrol. I have "cleared" MANY houses and other buildings, which could be considered successful "home invasion" scenarios. I don't work for Surefire, nor profit from their sales. I have trusted their products for years, ever since the 6P and 9P were their main notable products. (OTOH, I seem jinxed regarding Streamlight products, though I am aware that others love their products.) I don't drink all of the Surefire "kool-aid" regarding low-light fighting, but most of it is valid.

If nothing else, at times there is enough light for me to see him as a reasonable, probable threat, and him to see me, but not enough light for us to ID each other, that is when a weapon-mounted light beats a hand-held.

jimjc
December 7, 2010, 08:54 AM
I don` t have a light on my guns. First, I have dogs in my house, noone ever can get into or even near my house without my dogs knowing and barking. Second, when I built the house I wired it so that I have electrical switches in the master bedroom to turn on/off lights throughout the house, in a emergency. Thirdly, I have a safe door to our master bedroom. I guess this is to much info just to tell why I don`t have a lights on my guns. Theres more but I won`t bore you wth the details.

Rexster
December 7, 2010, 08:55 AM
BTW, the wrist lanyard that comes with certain Surefire lights is a very valuable asset. When I have used shotguns without a mounted light, the lanyard is particularly valuable. It does have a breakaway feature, for safety if snagged or grabbed.

therewolf
December 7, 2010, 12:24 PM
So, you release your grip on your LR/shotgun to activate/deactivate the light?

I can't help thinking Murphy's law here. The BG isn't going to wait till it's

convenient for you to shoot him, more than likely, he's going to make his move

at the exact same time your grip is relaxed, and you have to reposition slightly,

and re-grip your weapon to fire? Hey, you're the one taking that risk.

Indoors seems a poor place to try to maneuver a rifle/or shotgun.

Just my opinion.(or maybe not)

Six
December 7, 2010, 12:35 PM
I thought that was answered earlier?

Unless your setup is needlessly complicated, you don't need to move your hand at all.

On my SG, my thumb is right by the switch. I simply squeeze my thumb to turn it on.

CraigC
December 7, 2010, 01:04 PM
So, to turn on a "tactical" light, or turn it off, you have to let go of the rifle/shotgun with one hand, reach up, push a button, grab the gun again, then to switch it off you have to do the same, or hold it on?
So, you release your grip on your LR/shotgun to activate/deactivate the light?

I can't help thinking Murphy's law here. The BG isn't going to wait till it's

convenient for you to shoot him, more than likely, he's going to make his move

at the exact same time your grip is relaxed, and you have to reposition slightly,

and re-grip your weapon to fire? Hey, you're the one taking that risk.

Indoors seems a poor place to try to maneuver a rifle/or shotgun.

Just my opinion.(or maybe not)
A little information goes a long way. I use lights on rifles. Those rifles are equipped with vertical foregrips. The lights are positioned so that I can manipulate the tailswitch with my left thumb. It does not move from the grip, I do not have to move anything but my thumb to operate the light. Again, only the thumb. Total control.

waterhouse
December 7, 2010, 02:07 PM
So, you release your grip on your LR/shotgun to activate/deactivate the light?

Again, no. Did you watch the video? There is no releasing of your grip.

I can't help thinking Murphy's law here. The BG isn't going to wait till it's
convenient for you to shoot him, more than likely, he's going to make his move
at the exact same time your grip is relaxed, and you have to reposition slightly,
and re-grip your weapon to fire?

Once again, the grip isn't relaxed, and you don't have to re-grip your weapon to fire. Saying the bad guy is going to make a move when he sees my thumb press the tailcap of my flashlight is like saying he is going to make his move when he sees my trigger finger move. In fact, the thumb movement to turn on the light is much less that the movement that a trigger finger makes to pull the trigger.


Hey, you're the one taking that risk.

Which risk? If I'm dealing with a Remo Williams ninja that can hear the tendons in my thumb getting ready to press a button, I guess I'm already dead anyway. One risk I'm not taking is shooting something without identifying it. Just to be clear, once again, the shooting grip is never released. The hand isn't moving any more than your shooting hand moves when you pull a trigger.

Indoors seems a poor place to try to maneuver a rifle/or shotgun.

Which is an entirely different thread than whether a HD long gun should have a light.

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