[Kestrel]

Where do these guns fit? What are some reasons to use them? I'm not talking about because that happens to be what a military surplus rifle is chambered in, but why would you choose one of these calibers in a modern bolt action rifle, such as a Ruger M77?

Thanks,
Steve

[jimbo]

6.5x55 fits into the cartridges similar in power to .260 Remington. For example, powerwise you have .243, 6mm Remington, 6.5x55, .260 Remington, 7mm-08, .25-06, .270 Winchester. (for example.)

US manufacturers intentionally down-load the 6.5x55 because of all the mil-surp rifles chambered for it floating around. They don't want you to blow up your classic old gun dontchaknow.

But 6.5x55 is very popluar in Europe. And maybe S&B makes a full-power load for it, but I'm not sure.


Personally, I think the .260 Remington and 7mm-08 are better choices, unless you handload and can load the 6.5x55 to its full potential. The .260 Remington is catching on fast, and 7mm-08 has been around for a while, so factory loads for those rounds will prove to have more variety.

[JShirley]

Steve, they're just comfortable to shoot, capable cartridges. Fairly high SD's with very tolerable recoil.

Do they do anything several other cartridges don't? No. But they are cool. :cool:

John

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

The exterior ballistics for 6.5x55 are just a shade better downrange than a .270 Winchester, IIRC. Not quite as fast out of the barrel, but the drop at range is less, at least on paper and in my experience. I sure do like it.

.260 Remington is kinda like a 6.5mm -08. A new package for an old soldier.
.243 is like 6mm-08. Great cartrige any way you look at it.


Deer-sized critters don't report any significant preference or note any difference, but usually your shoulder will report the Mauser catriges to be a little more friendly after a day of shooting (ed. than a .270 Winchester or 25-06). 6.5x55 makes a pretty deep hole in anything you shoot with it. Sectional density is a wonderful thing, and long pencil-like bullets have it in spades. I've put S&B 139 grain rounds through 48 inch diameter pine trees at greater than 300 yards. It makes me very glad I have a heavy berm backstop.

At your local S-Mart you're more likely to find 7mm Mauser (7x57) on the shelves before 7mm-08. No indictment of 7-08 here, by any means. .260 may be scarce on most mass-market shelves awhile longer, and don't expect to find anything but a blank stare at S-Mart if you ask for 6.5 Anything.

All are easy to reload. I prefer a Lee Loader, but I happen to get my jollies seating primers with a hammer.


Besides, it's fun to hunt with a rifle that predates my grandfather. Old stuff rocks.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[Mike Irwin]

Quite frankly, they'd be excellent choices for general purpose, non-dangerous game rifles anywhere in the Continental United States.

MTNBKR has a very nice Winchester 6.5x55 that shoots very well.

[Jaywalker]

As jimbo says, both the 6.5X55 and the 7X57 are loaded to lower pressure by American ammo makers, but so what?

It's a cinch there are some folks poking some tiny groups into targets with these bullets - maybe it's because there isn't a high factor muzzle blast to wobble the bullet when it leaves the barrel.

If a cartridge will kill a deer as far away as I can hit it, is it really underpowered? Maybe our automatic association of "faster" with "better" is faulty - maybe "low recoil" or "less likely to cause hearing damage" or "longer barrel life (maybe)" is really what is "better."

Jaywalker

[Bob C]

I had a Remington 700 .308, which was essentially identical in performance, and I traded it to my son.

I have a 7x57 Ruger M-77. The Remington was actually a little more accurate, but I had wanted a 7x57 sporter for a while before I got one, so I kept that one. I load 175 bullets for this rifle, as they give me the best accuracy.

John Jobson wrote about 30 years ago that anyone who had a .308, a .280, a .270, a 30/06, or a 7x57 and thought they needed one of the others was simply looking for an excuse to buy another rifle.

Yeah, so?

[E=MC^2]

What are some reasons to use them?
I chose my Ruger No.1 RSI in 7X57 mostly because of it's long history. I liked being a little different than the hundreds-of-thousands of whitetail hunters using the .30-06, .30-30, and .308 around here.

My Speer manual says it was, "Developed for military service around 1892 by Mauser". I think that a cartirdge that's over a hundred years old and is still available in current rifles must have something going for it. At posted reloading levels it's capable of fine ballistics, but when cranked-up for use in modern firearms it's outstanding. I was using loads that I'd worked up in my Ruger No.1 that were always a few grains over max, yet never got into any signs of excess pressures.

6.5X55
Probably my favorite cartridge of all time. The day I call Dakota to have them build a custom #10 it will be in 6.5X55. I just need the $4,000 to get the project off the ground. :) The Sweede was adopted by the armies of Norway and Sweeden in 1894, though, not sure when it was first developed.

FWIW-I currently use a .308 for all my large-game hunting.

[M67]

E=MC^2, as far as I know the 6,5x55 was adopted immediately after it had been developed by a joint committee of the Swedish and Norwegian armed forces. I don't know if anyone from Mauser was invlolved in the process of developing the round, but I don't think so, I think they just designed the rifle for the Swedes. Norway chambered the round in our own Krag Jørgensen.

[cratz2]

From my experience, they seem to be most popular among either older shooters or younger folks wanting to be part of the whole retro thang. :p

Honestly, they are both very sensible cartridges... both seem to kill animals quite dead... they are very comfortable to shoot... aren't needlessly loud...

They are both extremely popular in Sweden, Finland and Norway where many, many moose and elk are taken every year. They are/were designed to be effective out to reasonable ranges. If you're wanting to try your hand at 400 yard moose shots, a 338 may serve you better. If you're like many hunters and are most likely to take a responsible shot inside 250 yards, a 6.5x55 will kill 99% of non-dangerous game just as dead as any ultra mag on the market with similar shot placement.

Like I said, very sensible.

[mete]

The 6.5x55 is the minimum cartridge for moose in sweden and then they suggest a premium 160 gr bullet. After hunting deer for 25 years with it I have to agree with Finn Aagard when he said it is the perfect deer cartridge. It's best used with the 140 gr which has very impressive sectional density and ballistic coefficient . It takes deer very efficiently without much recoil or muzzle blast and does so with exceptional accuracy.

[El Tejon]

The 6.5x55 fits in very close to perfection.:)

[Gmac]

W.D.M. Bell used the 7mm. Mauser ( and a ".257", 6.5 x55 ? )to kill elephant in Africa, but they wouldn't be my first choice!:D From " The Wanderings of An Elephant Hunter" by WDM Bell

[Pumpkinheaver]

I would choose one because they are highly effective on game I hunt, whitetails.

[mete]

Gmac, Though Bell used the 7x57 and 6.5 Mannlicher for elephant two parts of the story usually don't get told . First Bell was one of the best shots in Africa , second, he knew elephant anatomy better than anyone else. With these skills he could precisly place a small deep penetrating bullet into the brain from any angle. ......Stick to deer with the 6.5x55.

[Jaywalker]

I believe the point is clear that none of us advocate hunting elephants with a 6.5 or a 7. It's also clear that it has been done, and successfully, by a man who chose and placed his shots well. How is that different than the way it should be today? Moderate pressure loads in a reasonable weight rifle and a person who has practiced with his/her rifle should account for any game south of moose. We make a big deal about power rquirements, but deer, elk, and sheep aren't armored, and a 140 grain bullet in the ribcage will end any of them promptly. Bell undoubtedly turned down suspect shots, and so should we.

IMO, in an understandable effort to create rifle and cartridge sales, the firearms industry is stealing from its future. The new shooters they sell a Wizbang Magnum to today won't be around as a shooter to buy something a few years from now - the experience of shooting them is too unpleasant. I won't shoot more than 15 rounds of 300 Win Mag at a sitting - will a new shooter shoot more than two?

Rant mode off.

Jaywalker

[schromf]

I have more than a rifle or two, and have owned countless others in the past. I have two real favorites one is a 30-338 in a Belgium FN, which is what I use if I want to reach out touch something at 800 yds, or shoot something big and nasty close up. But thats off topic and I use that a lot less of that rifle as of late for 1 reason 90% of the time that much rifle isn't neccesary, and it has a lot of recoil with the 190-200 gr bullets I use.

So I carry most of the time my other favorite: a 7x57 mauser custom made from a G33/40 action. For those of you who aren't familiar with that action it is a small ring, mauser with the Nazi stamp. It is a custom with a steel buttplate and very pretty stock, 20" barrel and a fixed Leoupold 4X scope, custom trigger....Blah, Blah, Blah....... But on deer it is like the hammer of Thor. I reload for it with fairly heavy bullets ( I am a sectional density, ballistic coefficent nut ). I don't expect it to have the range of my 30 mag, but it is very pleasant to shoot, short, light and very accurate. As far as handy goes it is as short as my lever rifles and just as light. My guess is to 300 yds its all I will ever need in a rifle, if I was shooting at elk I would trim about 75 yds off of that yardage, and maybe push it another 25-50yds on antelope, but it is getting out out of its element a little after 250yds.

But from my experience with this rifle cartridge combo; and frankly I haven't used any of my other rifles in almost 10 yrs for hunting ( more 30 mags, 30-06's, 375 H&H ) if I was restricted to own only one rifle for hunting in the lower 48 my 7x57 would be it, or at least in a short list of three and I would be buying new guns for my other two choices ( others would be 280 Rem or a 6.5x55 Swede).

Yeah its an old cartridge, and factory ammo stinks because they load it down to be safe in antique rifles, but it is actually a slightly better round than the 7mm-08 as it doesn't need to seat long bullets back into the case and eat up powder capacity. When you handload for the 7x57 I can best velocity of the 7mm-08 by 200-300 fps depending on the bullet weights. When I compare it to a 7mm-08 my reloads using 162gr bullets ( with much higher S.D & B.C. ) are a 100fps faster than the 7mm-08 using 139 gr bullets. It does this with 10000lbs less pressure than the 7mm-08. I have had this for about 15 yrs and yeah its a keeper, I wish I had another actually so both of my sons could get one when the time comes.

[Gabe]

Jaywalker wrote:

I believe the point is clear that none of us advocate hunting elephants with a 6.5 or a 7.


Wasn't it one of the greatest elephant hunters who favored the 7x57mm? The trick was to sneak up on the animal and put a shot behind the ear. Works way better than a cannon shot in the guts.

[30Cal]

As stated earlier, the 7mm Mauser is readily available and a fine cartridge for most N. American game. My Win70 XTR Featherweight shoots a surprisingly tiny hole with a 140gr Sierra. I think Hornady copied my load exactly because theirs seems to be identical in terms of velocity and accuracy.

Ty

[Gewehr98]

Well, if they don't fit in small-ring Spanish, Mexican, Argentinian, and Swedish Mauser, as well as FN-49's and AG42B Ljungmans, then they fit quite nicely in Winchester Model 70 Featherweights, Ruger Model 1's and 77's, and Tikka lightweight sporters. Then they can go out in the woods and bring home the venison for the dinner table, something they've been doing, when they're not being used on the battlefield or target range, for oh, say, 110+ years? ;)

Don't forget, the .30-30 Winchester/.30 WCF has been around for basically that long, too, and nobody has a problem with where it fits in the scheme of things.

Contrary to popular gunrag and marketing belief, deer don't always need a big belted magnum round to fall to the hunter's skills.

[rust collector]

These are cartridges for people who love to shoot. They're not the latest, greatest design, and you won't be the first on your block to have one. You can shoot them all day without major damage to the shoulder or the nerves, can rely on them to hit where you're aiming if you do your job, and they put most game animals down without a lot of muss or fuss.

I have other rifles, but the 7x57 has put down my last 15 deer and I am readying a sweet little M-96 derived carbine in 6.5x55 to take over deer duty when the weather is nice. Now there are more sources of ammo than ever, but I hope you'll reward the domestic producers for meeting the needs of shooters.

Yeehaww. Love those metrics!

[Bob F.]

Well, everybody else already "already said it good!" I love the 6.5x55! Only thing I can add: years ago buddy had a 7mm Rem Mag. He never could hit s----ah, stuff with it. I suggested he trade for a rifle he could shoot with his eyes open.
My Swede also likes 100gr Sierra HP's for varmits. Actually, not much it doesn't like.
Stay safe.
Bob

[theCZ]

For me the 6.5 Swede has a certain allure to it because of it's versatility. While I certainly like having a variety of rifles, I am drawn to the 6.5 much like I am to the 270 because of the range of bullets made for it. If I have a child someday, his or her first "youth" rifle will probably be a 6.5, a timeless classic IMO.

[jefnvk]

My first rifle was a 6.5x55. No kidding. Not even a .22. Remington Classic in 6.5x55. For deer, I would much rather take that out hunting that an '06. Last deer I shot with t was a shade under 50 yards. Right throught the heart and a lung, IIRC. It stood for about two seconds and tipped right over. That was with handloads, though. And it will shoot three bullets throught the same hole at 100 yards using factory loads.

[LAK]

The ballistic coefficients of 7mm and 6.5mm bullets are usually quite high. The advantages of the 7x57 and 6.5x55 are that they are better suited to those long high sectional density 175 and 160 grain bullets respectively. They operate at moderate pressures with good manners.

[roo_ster]

...well, right in my gun closet, is where!

I don't yet own the 7x57, but give me time.

The 6.5x55 is nice since it accomplishes what the 30-06 does (with the exception of the largest N American species), but does it with much less drama, recoil, and blast. If you can take it with a 30-06 150gr-168gr bullet, you can take it with the Swede. If it requires a 200gr or bigger 30-06 pill, you probably ought to stick with the 30-06 or similar cartridges.

BTW, you can get some pretty hot 6.5x55 factory ammo (S&B, Hornady Lt Magnum).

Also, I think the 6.5x55 is a bit more common than the .260 Remington, with more factory loadings. I'm not knocking the .260, it just does not have as many factory offerings. If I were set on a short-action round, the .260 Remington would be the bee's knees. I thnk Ruger produces an tidy short action rifle with a 16" BBL.

The 7mm-08 is more common than both 6.5x55 & .260 Remington, I believe.

[MikeG]

Interesting thread. I just got rifles in both these calibers back in May.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mwgregg/images/S_M96_1.jpg

This is a Swedish M96 in 6.5x55mm, 1905 Carl Gustav.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mwgregg/images/B_M08_1.jpg

This is a Brazilian 1908 Mauser in 7x57mm, made at Oberndorf around 1912 - 1914.

From what I've read, both cartridges are great within their limitations. They're not magnums, but they work.
Mike

[sumpnz]

My wife and I were just talking last night about what to get her for a hunting rifle. She would be going hunting with me this year, but as we just had our first baby that's not going to happen. Next year, if we can arrange for a babysitter though, she will go with me.

I suggested the 6.5 Swede as a good caliber for for her for two reasons. #1 It's what I'll be hunting with and ammo sharing capabilities can be important. #2 It's a reasonably light recoiling round that is still capable of taking everything from whitetail to moose with appropriate loads, range, and shot placement.

The only downside is trying to find her a rifle in that caliber that is either a leftie bolt action or a falling block single shot (or other ambidextrous action).

One of these days we're both going to have custom made his-and-hers hunting rifles. But it will be a long time before I can afford something like that.

[GunGoBoom]

So, sumpnz, of the two of ya, she's the only one in her right mind? :)

Question: Since reload manuals and factory offerings are downloaded in order to not have the unknowing blow up their milsurps, then how is one to know exactly how far one can go in working up a load for these cartridges in a modern rifle like a Tikka, Howa, CZ, or Winchester (to name 4 makers that offer 6.5x55 from the factory)??? Where can load data be found to get the most out of these 2 cartridges? (hmm, can't remember whether Rem offers the 700 in 6.5, but they probably do).

[Combat-wombat]

Weren't the latter-production Japanese Arisakas chambered in 6.5x55? Or am I thinking of 6.5-by-something else?

[MikeG]

A lot of reloading manuals emphasize the difference between the lower pressure limits for older actions (especially pre 1898 Mausers) and stronger '98 Mausers and modern rifles.

I think the Arisaka took a 6.5x52mm.
Mike

[sumpnz]

Apparently some of the Arisakas were re-chambered to 6.5x55 back in the years after the war becuase of the relative ease of finding brass for the Swede round compared to the Japanese round.

GunGoBoom - She's the southpaw, don't know about the "right mind" part though :neener: (j/k).

[Mannlicher]

Steve, both will kill anything walking in North or South America. Fact is they will KO anything period.
They are old, and certainly not the most powerful cartridges out there, but they still get the job done, and they do it well.

[JohnKSa]

W. D. M. "Karamojo" Bell did indeed kill a LOT of elephants with the 7x57. He also killed some with the 6.5x55 (probably the 160gr bullet loading) but reported that the long bullets of the 6.5 were prone to bending and therefore deflection during the 2 foot journey through the bone of an elephant skull to its brain.

Bell was an exceptional shot, perhaps the best, certainly one of the best marksman who has ever lived. There are reports of him shooting flying birds with a rifle. He purchased a large quantity of surplus rifle ammunition (8mm?) and found that enough of the ammo would misfire that he refused to use it for hunting dangerous game. Instead he used it for wing shooting. He was approached on one occasion while engaging in this pastime and asked what manner of shotgun he was using. The observers were impressed by the range at which he was able to take the flying birds. They were even more impressed when he showed them that he was shooting a rifle, not a shotgun.

[browningguy]

I had my first custom rifle built two years ago in 275 Rigby (just a fancy name for the 7mm Mauser). Why?
I didn't have one
low recoil
accurate
loads of bullet choices
kills anything that gets in front of it

I shoot 160 and 173 gr. loads in mine and with the high sectional density I'm comfortable hunting all medium game with it. I just got a Texas Dall with it last weekend, and it's taken Axis and Sika deer with excellent results.

I also have a 270, '06, 300 Win, 308 Win, 8mm Mauser, 338 Win, 458 Win among modern calibers, plus some like the 300 Sherwood and 360 No. 5, so I'm not limited in my choices.

[GunGoBoom]

Wow, shooting birds with 8x57JS - man, I'll bet only a beak and a couple feathers left eh? Flying birds, no less. Impressive.

If you take a look at some of the more common cartridges between .22 and .30, you could think of it this way:

1. 6mm/.243: "Regular": .243 Win / "Magnum": 6mm Rem or .243 WSSM

2. .257: Regular: .257 Robts / Magnum: .25-'06 or .25 WSSM

3. 6.5mm/.264: Regular: .260 Rem / Long (but not really magnum): 6.5x55 / Magnum: wildcat: 6.5mm-'06

4. .277: Regular: ?? / Magnum: .270 Win

5. 7mm/.284: Regular: 7mm-'08 / Long (but not really magnum): 7x57 / Magnum: .280 Rem / "super" magnum: 7mmRemMag

So, in that sense, they don't really "fit in" very well, in that .260 Rem and 7mm-08 do everything they do in a shorter cartridge, albeit with more pressure. They're sort of "extra" if you look at things that way. But, they're still great cartridges with lots of tradition.

What's most interesting to me in all of this is the OMISSION in this theoretical scheme of 2 cartridge choices: first, there is no "regular" .277 cartridge - nothing else took off that I'm aware of in this sized case in .277. The .270 Win is indeed a great, great, versatile cartridge, but I'm surprised a .308 case-based round in this size never took off (or maybe it did and I'm not aware of it). The other "omission" is that probably the MOST versatile cartridge of them all, the 6.5mm-'06, never gained more than acceptance than wildcat status, even though 6.5s have the best BCs over the WIDEST range of bullets weights, of all calibers. I'm going to have a custom rifle built someday in 6.5-06, but for now, .270 is the "all-purpose" gun for me.

[JohnKSa]

There were some rumors that the 6.5-06 was going to be introduced as a factory cartridge in the last Shot Show. I guess there were just too many Mini Super Short Ultra Wonder Magnum cartridges that needed to get on the shelves first... :rolleyes:

[jetta]

Got my first deer, a fallow buck, 5 days ago with a 1942 Husqvarna M38 6.5 x 55 in original configuration....open sights. The shot was taken at around 80 to 90 metres after stalking in from 200. Way back in this thread E=MC^2 said "6.5 x 55 is my favourite round" .....mine too!!

[GunGoBoom]

Idn't it fun to take game with a gun that came from the same place as your chainsaw? ;)

[LAK]

JohnKSa,

In addition to the 7x57 (and the .303 British) it was the .256 (otherwise known as the 6.5x54) Mannlicher-Schönauer that Bell used with 160 grain bullets (solids).

The 6.5 Swede has about 200 fps or so more muzzle velocity in a rifle with similar bullet weights than the little 1903 Mannlicher-Schönauer carbine with the 17.7" barrel. The original velocity in the Mannlicher-Schönauer carbines was about 2,200 fps, and this was later improved by powder developement to about 2,300 fps.

Also, for those looking for 6.5 Swede hunting ammo, Norma makes it as well. Expensive, but Norma ammuntion is generally very high quality - and weighing the costs of a single cartridge per game animal it is insignificant. Norma is usually somewhat hotter than most any ammo made here in the USA for "vintage" european cartridges, but safe in any rifle in sound condition.

[mtnbkr]

1903 Mannlicher-Schönauer carbine

I lust after one of these in 6.5x54 with double set triggers.

Chris

[JohnKSa]

He mentions the .256 in his autobiography and says that he preferred it to the 7x57. When he started having trouble with case neck splitting with the .256 Austrian ammo that was available at the time he switched back to the 7x57.

I recall reading somewhere (I don't think it was in his autobio) that Bell experimented with the 6.5x55 and was displeased because he thought it tended to deflect in the bone of an elephant skull. If I can find the reference I'll post it.

[LAK]

JohnKSa,

I only have one of his books, "The Wanderings of an Elelphant Hunter". He doesn't mention the Swede in that one, but that does not mean of course that he never used it. I think he only ever lost one elephant with the Mannlicher-Schönauer, and he mentions both the problems with ammunition and the tendency of the 6.5 bullets to bend at times in this account.

Bell was certainly an oustanding hunter in the practical sense. He knew where the elephant's brain was located from any angle, and at close ranges with considerable nerve was able to place nearly all his shots accordingly.

mtnbkr,

Me too! Although I prefer the 1950 and '52 models. If I were alittle wealthy I could easily accumilate quite a few of these great little guns.

[JohnKSa]

I think he only ever lost one elephant with the Mannlicher-Schönauer, and he mentions both the problems with ammunition and the tendency of the 6.5 bullets to bend at times in this account.Well, crumbs! In "Bell of Africa" I couldn't find a reference to the 6.5x55--only the .256. It's beginning to look like I either got things swapped around in my head or the book that I read that quoted him was wrong... I'll keep looking.