Lights and feeders at night for pigs


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flipajig
December 3, 2010, 01:16 PM
any one with experiance with useing lights around a feeder at night for pigs.
Ive read that GREEN or RED lights don't bother the cridders as much as the WHITE ones do. As I have posted some of my trail cam pics most of the pork is comming in at night
thanks

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Flintknapper
December 3, 2010, 01:50 PM
If the same group is returning to the feeder, they will eventually ignore any color of light (assuming the intensity is not too great), but in my experience, Red is the least likely to get a reaction, Amber next, then Green, then White.

Don't be fooled...if anyone tells you that hogs CAN'T see the color red, they don't perceive it as the same color WE see...but if the light is intense enough and the the angle of incidence low enough they will definitely react.

25 yrs, of hunting hogs has taught me....that each animal is different and each group (sounder) can be different in how they react to stimuli.

Circumstance....dictates how bright a light you would need and how high (or at what angle) you would need to place it, but ideally (for feeders)...you can use a fairly low intensity light, mount it fairly close to the feeder and as high up as possible...so it creates a beam that is shining downward.

If your situation calls for lighting up a "swath" of ground then a more powerful light is needed and it will be mounted lower generally.

I prefer to have my light already on at dusk, rather than try to switch it on once hogs arrive. It seems they are much more willing to walk under/into a light source that is already illuminating the area.... than accept one that suddenly comes on (creating shadows that can frighten them).

Good luck with whatever you choose....and I hope you are sucessful at killing a few of those PESTS.

IH8HOGS....!

Flint.

FLAvalanche
December 3, 2010, 02:53 PM
Here is what I do. I have a feeder that runs on 6V battery and that is hooked up with a rechargeable battery and a 6V solar cell. The feeder is programmed to run twice. 6 am and 6 pm or 7am and 7pm depending on daylight savings.

Mounted to the top of the feeder I have a 12V LED boat trailer brake light that is connected to a 16Ah 12V rechargeable battery and connected to 12V solar panel. In between the battery and the light is a light sensor. It turns on the light at dusk and off at dawn and the battery is enough to run it for most of that time. I've got about $50 into that set up and it works like a dream.

This keeps the light on at night when the pigs are in and like Flint said, as long as it's not too intense, they will get used to it.

You guys are lucky, you don't need a special permit to hunt hogs at night. We in Florida do.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 3, 2010, 06:26 PM
Sounds like a good rig Fla, neat idea with the LED brake light! Us "po folks" have to be creative at times :)

Flint, I have found amber tended to spook hogs a bit more but it could have been because they were pretty heavily pressured and that was what most of the hunters were using. Green always worked well for me and also tended to light up the corneas REALLY well! Plus with my color vision (it is a bit whacky) I can see much better with the green than I can with Red.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 3, 2010, 06:31 PM
Flip, If you are talking about establishing a light at the feeder go with what flint and Fla said, If you are going to be using a spotlight by carry, I would go with green and shine it behind them and then slowly rotate it up to the animals. Less likely to spook then. With the Green, red and Amber, it is not so much the color that spooks them but the cast of shadows that makes them scatter.

Flintknapper
December 3, 2010, 11:18 PM
Freedom_fighter_in_IL wrote:

Flint, I have found amber tended to spook hogs a bit more but it could have been because they were pretty heavily pressured and that was what most of the hunters were using.
Depends entirely upon the hog(s) and the intensity of the light (regardless of color). I've had hogs just "blow" out of the area when I lowered a fairly low intensity red light on them, and others just stand there looking at me with a 250 lumen white light.

You never know....so all of my advice and experience is stated in general terms.



Green always worked well for me and also tended to light up the corneas REALLY well!
I've got no problem with green...and if that works for you....keep on using it.

I haven't really noticed one color of light inducing more "eye shine" than another, that seems to be more a feature of angle than anything else. Hogs lack a "tapetum" and their eyes don't reflect light anyway (as do Deer, Raccoons, etc), so you're lucky if you get much shine from the lens.

Plus with my color vision (it is a bit whacky) I can see much better with the green than I can with Red.

Pretty much the same with most folks. Green (of the same intensity) is easier seen but you lose detail and depth perception to it... when compared to red.

Red shows up pretty well on a light background (dead winter grass, snow, light soil), but loses illumination (reflection back to the eye) when projected on dark colors (green grass, black hogs, dark brush).

By projecting the light downward (as much as possible) you can illuminate the backs of the animals and they are very easy to see that way. This also helps prevent shadows and keeps one hog from hiding another.

I'll see if I've got a couple pics.

Flintknapper
December 3, 2010, 11:49 PM
This is the illumination from a hog light I made (3 one watt LED’s) at a distance of about 50 yds. from an elevated stand.

You can see…it is just getting dusky dark. The light will appear brighter the darker it gets.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/hog_light_dusk-1.jpg


In this pic…it is not even close to dark yet, but you can already see the effect I was talking about (illumination of hog’s backs).

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/hogs_under_light-1.jpg

The darker it gets…the more they shine.

Almost every hog has guard hairs on its back (often times split). No matter the color (dark hog or light) these will reflect light very well (the exception being if the hog is caked with mud).

Any hog under the main spill of the beam will be illuminated this way (cast of light coming from above), whereas a light projected at a low angle will light up the hogs in front but the one’s in back are obscured (may not be a problem depending upon what you want to shoot).

Anyway….each person’s situation might call for something different…..so I offer this only as one method to consider.

Best of luck to all,

Flint.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 4, 2010, 12:00 AM
Nice setup flint, Only problem I would have with that is I don't see red very well in real world situations. Something to do with being around welding without eye protection a little too often according to the eye doc. On here I can see it fairly well and it appears as if that would be a really good permanent setup. Looks like you have that stand all ready and waiting!

Flintknapper
December 4, 2010, 12:20 AM
Yes, if you're vision is red impaired then this info does not apply.

Welding can be tough on the eyes...I know, especially MIG and TIG....don't ever "watch the pretty blue light" ;)

I have several permanent stand sites for hogs as well as traps.

Most years...its a never ending battle. I have killed I don't know how many hundreds over the years, but they just keep making more. :(

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 4, 2010, 12:26 AM
I know, especially MIG and TIG....don't ever "watch the pretty blue light"

But But But But Doc, it's so pretty dancing around like that I just can't keep from falling into a trance and watching it till my eyes bleed! :eek:

Funny thing is, he told me my night vision would be severely affected as well but I still see better in the dark than most. Mostly it was all peripheral angles but it still got my eyes all screwy. Mainly just my color vision but also got them pretty light sensitive as well. Oh well, I do my best work in the dark anyway :evil:

2ndAmFan
December 7, 2010, 11:19 AM
I want to say to those who have posted their experiences with nighttime hog hunting here: Keep it coming! We need to know as much as possible about this before we get started.
My hunting buddy and I want to get into nighttime hog hunting. There are a LOT of hogs around here but of course we almost never see them because they're nocturnal. This is strictly a low budget operation. No traps, cams, or anything fancier than bait and lights. We'll probably use a car or truck as a blind, or if that just isn't working out we'll find some good trees we can climb in a hurry if necessary. I was thinking we'd start the lights going on the baited areas for a few nights and check to see how much traffic we're getting the following mornings. I've located a wallow alongside a creek and we plan to bait the area near there as well as another spot farther up the creek. Of course, I may stake out that wallow and see just what size hog is using it, possibly take that one before we set up the lights, etc.
We plan to use either red or green lights. I'll be carrying an SKS, he'll probably use a lever action 30-30, both have open sights. We'll have .357 revolvers as backup. It's unlikely we'll be taking shots at more than about 20 or 30 yds. I know enough to go with hard, heavy rounds in the revolvers, and we'll use 150-154 grain soft point in the rifles. We can't afford to buy better equipment/weapons than we already have and figure this is the best we can use of what we already have available.

FLAvalanche
December 7, 2010, 11:38 AM
I want to say to those who have posted their experiences with nighttime hog hunting here: Keep it coming!

Ok...

Keep it coming! We need to know as much as possible about this before we get started.
My hunting buddy and I want to get into nighttime hog hunting.

It's not rocket science. Feed them plenty, take the pressure off them, and it will be like shooting trout in a barrel.

There are a LOT of hogs around here but of course we almost never see them because they're nocturnal.

That's because they're pressured. They don't want to be nocturnal. Seeing as they are pressured already it makes your hunting harder. You will need to pay special attention to the wind and your scent because YOU CAN'T BEAT THE NOSE. Say that over and over until you hear it while you sleep. Especially if they're already nocturnal. Feed them and feed them heavy. Make them want that easy meal regardless of pressure.

This is strictly a low budget operation. No traps, cams, or anything fancier than bait and lights.

The good news is you don't need anything else really.

We'll probably use a car or truck as a blind,

Dont. Remember, hogs are intelligent and they're already pressured. Car=Humans, Humans=Bad.

We can't afford to buy better equipment/weapons What you already have is more than sufficient. Learn the anatomy of the hogs. Their vitals aren't located in their body the same place as a deer. Avoid frontal head shots.

Oh and I almost forgot. You will be amazed at how quiet pigs can be at night. You probably won't hear them come in, they'll just magically appear. We have a saying in the grove I hunt. "If it sounds like a pig coming it's just an armadillo. If it sounds like an elephant coming, it's just a cardinal. If you don't hear anything, the pigs are already at the feeder."

2ndAmFan
December 7, 2010, 12:18 PM
Thanks FLAvalanche. I should have mentioned there is an old truck cab near one of the muddy spots I've picked out by the creek which someone used for target practice before we owned this place. The hogs won't be suspicious of it as long as they don't see/smell/hear anyone inside it. I'll definitely take your advice as far as not parking nearby and waiting.

Fernando
December 7, 2010, 12:53 PM
Get a good scope with 10x or 12x and a 56mm front lens (objective), with illuminated reticle (w/ adjustable intensity so you can use it in very low mode), hunt only in nights with the moon in the sky (even if clouded), choose clever spots to place the feeders (where some moon light can enter) and you won’t need artificial lights to hit boars if you keep your shooting below 100 meters.

We cannot use artificial lights here to hunt at night and we keep sending pigs to heaven, or to be more exact: to the freezer.

Here is a ****ty pic from last week, with 8 small wild boars (below 40kg). From next Monday (13th) to the 22nd I will try to blow up one of their parents or grand parents ;)

http://i53.tinypic.com/slmbeo.jpg

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 7, 2010, 01:16 PM
FLA beat me to it. Pretty much what he said. What you have is more than sufficient for the task at hand. Just remember SHOT PLACEMENT with hogs. Their lungs are much further forward than a deer in your minds eye. Right behind the shoulder on a hog COULD very well be a gut shot according to the angle. Right behind the shoulder is perfect for a pretty good quartering away shot but if it is quartering to you then you want to hit right on or just forward of the point of the shoulder. Head on shots to the head can be very deceptive as well. Many bullets have simply grazed and seemingly bounced off a hogs skull because of that angle. Not to mention the brain on a hog is a TINY target. And one that is rarely still enough for a clean shot. Many will say put it behind the ear and you will have a dead hog. For expert marksmen that have a lot of experience in the body language of a hog this is an excellent choice. For those with little experience with how hogs move and a good sense of what their body language is telling you, it would be a poor shot choice. With the weapons you have at your disposal, go for the vitals and you will have dead hogs at your feet.

Fernando
December 7, 2010, 01:37 PM
About cars and pigs:

When night hunting you have to be careful with lots of things and one is the weather (sometimes you cannot see the storms coming and if there is lightning involved you can die, especially because your gun can be the only metal for miles around). So, don’t be a wise ass. This is what you should keep in mind when hunting boars at night in feeders:

If the boars are showing up early to the feeders every night, they are sleeping very close. So, if the weather is good (for sure), leave you car as far as you can and walk to your waiting spot. If you predict rain or lightning storm, park your car sideways to the feeder during the last minutes of the day near some vegetation if possible, at no less than 50 meters to feeder and no further than 100 meters. Jump to the back seat, get all your gear and **** set, open your window by 5 inches and be real quiet for the next hours, because boars can be very curious (I had boars next to the car’s windows when parked near bushes, and I’m not talking about hogs but wild boars). Because you don’t want rain in you car seat place a sweatshirt below the window and keep another real close because when you try to shoot you will need to place it on the window glass below the gun barrel (don’t lay the stock against the glass because you don’t want a lever effect that will make you miss the porky – and don’t worry about barrel vibration because at that distance, below 100 meters, it won’t mater and you wont miss your shot - point to the engine box).

In rainy and stormy days pigs either don’t see or don’t care about cars parked, but you cannot light your wrist watch to see the time, neither or phone, and you must keep silent all the time. Because it is likely that you wait for several hours, get well dressed at home and place some clothes on you back seat joints so it doesn’t make any sounds when you twist your body to be more comfortable or to grab you gun.

Very important: when you see boars approaching don’t get euphoric and try to grab you gun. Wait until they start to eat, because by that time you can even fart loud that they probably won’t ear you, especially if you have corn in the feeder.

Now that you think that you know everything, note this: one of the most important gear when night hunting with no lights (just use a 56mm objective scope), even if inside cars, is a 10x50 binoculars. When seated in your car you can see what is happening in your feeder with a small movement of your arm, and you will be doing it allot during the waiting, trust me. Sometimes I wait 7 or 8 hours, or more, and I grab the binos every 2 or 3 minutes. Just do the math, lol ;)

Fernando
December 7, 2010, 01:52 PM
I forgot to tell you that the car I use for waiting boars in stormy days has lots of chrome parts that reflect light, and even so I can shoot boars from inside of it without been noticed. In fact, the damn car glows like the automan’s car, lololol. Just look one and another:

http://i53.tinypic.com/23kvk87.jpg

FLAvalanche
December 7, 2010, 02:02 PM
If the boars are showing up early to the feeders every night, they are sleeping very close.

Spot on. They are either wallowing or sleeping near by. Most of the hogs that show up early are still wet from wallowing.

Very important: when you see boars approaching don’t get euphoric and try to grab you gun. Wait until they star to eat, because by that time you can even fart loud that they probably won’t ear you, especially if you have corn in the feeder.

Yep. It's also a good oppertunity to observe. Watch them closely and see the heirarchy. Watch for signs of alertness and how they behave to it. I've spent plenty of nights just watching them from the tripod stand. You'll learn things. Which direction they'll come in from depending on the wind. All that is useful on future hunts. It was only about a few months of watching and I could tell you what pigs would come in, what time they would show up within minutes, which way they would come and which way they would leave. It got to the point where I could even chose which hog I would shoot before I even went out just from watching and the trail cams.

You'll also see a pattern. They will eventually lose the nocturnal urge. They'll start coming in earlier little by little. You'll shoot a few at dusk and they'll go back to nocturnal and then once again slowly start coming in a little earlier.

The hogs biggest attributes are also its biggest weakness. Its nose and its stomach. Start out with sour mash. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with corn and water and a few cheap cans of beer and let it sit until it's just utterly disgusting. I usually leave it until it starts to kill the cockroaches that try to get into it. Top it off with a bottle of Pig Licker or maple syrup and set it out during the day well before dark.

2ndAmFan
December 7, 2010, 02:42 PM
OK we have the binoculars, and though I didn't especially want to use it we can use the old truck cab as a blind if we want. The reason I didn't want to use it is because it's a little too close to the most promising feed area and we can only shoot in an almost dead south direction from it without risking bullets crossing my neighbor's fence line. It's right at one corner of our property, and he told me last time we hunted near his fence that he would call the LEOs if even one round crossed his fence, and asked me to call him any time I would be hunting near the fence line. I'm pretty sure he'll call the LEO's anytime he hears shots nearby after dark anyway unless he's sure it's me doing the shooting. The guy's a real pain.
He's my paranoid antigun neighbor so he'll have the Sheriff's Dept. down there looking for/harassing us and scaring off the hogs the first shot he hears if I don't call him first. There is some brush nearby we may be able to hide in rather than using the truck cab, and we can get a little further away and shoot north into a hillside from there instead of south and risking a round crossing the neighbor's fence. That may be the better choice.
I wish I had a low light scope, but I just can't afford one right now. Maybe I'll ask Santa to bring me one. As it is, I have some light colored plastic front sight inserts for the SKS that might work better than black steel. I really don't know which is better when you are shooting toward red or green light. I'll just have to check it out and see.
I want to thank everyone who has offered advice and experience, and I hope we bag a few hogs. It may take a couple of weeks or so for us to get set up. If we're successful I'll post about it, maybe even learn how to upload pics. I enjoy seeing the pics and reading the stories about feral hog hunting too.

Fernando
December 7, 2010, 03:27 PM
If you don’t have a low light scope you can still use your scope if it has at least a 42mm frontal lens (less than that you are most likely screwed), but you should hunt only near the full moon. I know some guys that use 50mm frontal lens Tasco scopes without reticle illumination, and below 40 or 50 meters they too manage to kill boars, although they have to compromise somewhere: as they usually shoot closer and have to place feeders in places without vegetation and subject to direct moon light, they usually kill small and medium boars. Bigger and old ones walk by the shadows and wait eternities to get to the feeders so they can calmly sniff all smells in the winds. For these last ones we need to get some distance to feeders and place it below trees or covered spots.

I had a 1,5-6x42 with no illuminated reticle some years ago and I could see clearly in full moon. Way better than with my naked eye. Just remember: to see at night your eyes must be in the dark for several minutes (if you light up your cell phone screen you will need more than 5 minutes to adapt to dark environment again).

Give it a try with your gear at the right night, take your time in the dark.

2ndAmFan
December 7, 2010, 05:05 PM
Well, my 30.06 scope has a 42mm front lens, but I really didn't want to use it for hogs. It's a Savage 110 so it's a bolt action and not real good for fast follow-up shots, especially when you are dealing with hogs at close range that may be running every direction, including right at you. I don't claim to be a very fast draw trying to get a holstered .357 into action under those circumstances either. It would be kind of like six of one and half-dozen of the other. I really don't want to scope my SKS, even if I could afford it because pretty much everyone I've known who has tried it has said "Don't." Still, I can keep an eye out for a good lever action 30.30, even a semi auto from about .270 caliber up to 30.06, maybe with a decent scope already on it and see if I can afford to get a gun like that down the road. Meantime, I guess we'll see what we can accomplish with lights and iron sights.

Fernando
December 7, 2010, 05:50 PM
Quote: “so it's a bolt action and not real good for fast follow-up shots”

Don’t get greedy, lol. I got a semi-auto 30.06 and the only times I killed more than one pig was when one was in front of another and the same bullet hit both. The fire glare from muzzle seen through the daytime scope at night will not allow your eyes to see in the next seconds after the shot, so you can forget about a bam, bam, bam (unless you are using artificial lights to illuminate the game). And trust me, after you take the shot, you should concentrate in see where the pig you shot is running to, and not try to get another of the same herd, or you may loose both very easily.

One pig per night is more than fine.

2ndAmFan
December 7, 2010, 08:46 PM
We will be using artificial lights but I doubt processing more than one hog in any 24 hour period would be very practical so I won't get greedy. We'd be more likely to go out a couple of times a week. Even with lights muzzle flash may be a factor, especially from a 30.06. We won't be using super strong spotlights, just enough light to see the hogs.

Cosmoline
December 7, 2010, 08:53 PM
I forgot to tell you that the car I use for waiting boars in stormy days

.. is a Mercedes?? What? That entire concept, and the photo of a Mercedes being used as some kind of off-road hog hunting vehicle, is hurting my mind very much. Are you going out there in suits with briefcases? Are you putting the hogs in the trunk?

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 7, 2010, 09:34 PM
Cosmo, where Fernando lives, a Mercedes costs about the same as a Toyota does here in the USA. Hell they use them for Taxi's!

Double Naught Spy
December 7, 2010, 11:57 PM
I haven't really noticed one color of light inducing more "eye shine" than another, that seems to be more a feature of angle than anything else. Hogs lack a "tapetum" and their eyes don't reflect light anyway (as do Deer, Raccoons, etc), so you're lucky if you get much shine from the lens.

I don't know about visible light, but hog eyes do a fine job of reflecting IR light as seen with night vision. Fernando's pic shows this as well.

What you already have is more than sufficient. Learn the anatomy of the hogs. Their vitals aren't located in their body the same place as a deer. Avoid frontal head shots.

No reason to avoid frontal head shots. Just don't take the shot when they are looking right at you as you may end up with a shot that glances due to the acute angle of the skull relative to the trajectory of the bullet. If the hog's nose is down, the frontal is nearly vertical and the glance issue is mitigated.

FLAvalanche
December 8, 2010, 12:45 AM
Just don't take the shot when they are looking right at you

Which is what I meant. I could have articulated that better.

Fernando
December 8, 2010, 05:13 AM
Quoting Cosmoline: “... is a Mercedes?? What? That entire concept, and the photo of a Mercedes being used as some kind of off-road hog hunting vehicle, is hurting my mind very much. Are you going out there in suits with briefcases? Are you putting the hogs in the trunk?”

Yap, Mercedes, especially the older ones, are great off road vehicles.

http://i51.tinypic.com/11b0xp5.jpg


And boars don’t mind traveling in the trunk, at least the ones I kill. And as you see, there is room in there for two pigs at least, or for a small rino, lololol

http://i55.tinypic.com/2087fxk.jpg


Meanwhile I found a picture of the 1,5-6x42 scope I had some years ago. At the time it was hanging on a streyr mannlicher sbs96 30.06 bolt action (previously was attached to a .300 win mag Winchester).

http://i51.tinypic.com/23tpc8w.jpg


And talking about pics, I recently created a website called “As fotos escritas” or, in english, “The written photos” and launched many photos and small texts. The texts are obviously in Portuguese, as it is my native language, but you have there tons of images of landscapes, animals, bugs and other things, all taken by me with a Canon 350D. Use the menus on the left and then click the small photos on the right (they will enlarge if you keep clicking). It will only show up to 20 pics per page, so you may have to scroll down using the arrow.

Here is link to a pic of a boar:
http://asfotosescritas.net/index.php?it=278&sit=&img_esc=3&l=0

Normal link to the site: www.asfotosescritas.net

Have fun :-)

flipajig
December 8, 2010, 07:15 AM
Years ago we used to spot light Jackrabits they were like wild pigs verry distrutive. we used Ruger 10-22 and 3-9x40 scopes worked like a charm. the larger front lense would gather more light this is what we had so that is what we used also snow on the ground and a full moon really helps. But we dont get much snow in TEXAS..

Flintknapper
December 8, 2010, 01:32 PM
Flint wrote:

I haven't really noticed one color of light inducing more "eye shine" than another, that seems to be more a feature of angle than anything else. Hogs lack a "tapetum" and their eyes don't reflect light anyway (as do Deer, Raccoons, etc), so you're lucky if you get much shine from the lens.


Double Naught Spy replied:

I don't know about visible light, but hog eyes do a fine job of reflecting IR light as seen with night vision. Fernando's pic shows this as well.


Flint wrote:

I don’t know that Fernando’s pic were taken under those conditions, he doesn’t say. However…if his camera does not have a Hot Mirror Filter to filter out IR or Near IR light.. then most photos taken under low light conditions will record it.

Even if his camera is filtered….some IR gets through the CCD.

But, that has nothing to do with the point I trying to make.

In order to clarify…I will reword what I wrote, since the original could be misunderstood (my bad).

The eyes of all mammals (if undamaged), are capable of reflecting available light under low light conditions. The lens alone will do this to varying degrees. How pronounced it is… (the reflection we see) depends more on intensity of the light and the angle of incidence….than it does on color alone.

Also, hogs lack a “Tapetum” (a reflective layer found behind or within the retina) as Deer, Cats, Dogs, Raccoons have.

So……. don’t expect to see THAT kind of eye shine with hogs...no matter what you use.

Hopefully, this explanation (however remedial) …will better make my point.

Thanks,

Flint.

Double Naught Spy
December 8, 2010, 03:27 PM
The eyes of all mammals (if undamaged), are capable of reflecting available light under low light conditions. The lens alone will do this to varying degrees. How pronounced it is… (the reflection we see) depends more on intensity of the light and the angle of incidence….than it does on color alone.

So……. don’t expect to see THAT kind of eye shine with hogs...no matter what you use.

Hopefully, this explanation (however remedial) …will better make my point.

That sort of eyeshine is what I do see regularly with NG gear and IR lights, so it is something I do expect to see. Hogs may not have a tapetum, but IR reflects very well.

You don't get that sort of reflection with human eyes.

I am still trying to understand how it is that the lens is reflecting the light. You certainly may get some reflection off of a cornea, but I am not understanding how the light is reflecting off of the lens.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 8, 2010, 04:29 PM
Maybe it is just because my eyes are damaged and maybe filter things differently than normal, but that is the kind of eye shine I see when I use green light on hogs. My Red vision sucks, where you see red (in real world lighting not on a monitor) I see almost a grey. Yes on an LCD monitor I can actually differentiate (damn I spelled that correctly!) red color. Now to me THAT is strange. You shine a red light in my face or on the ground and it looks almost grey but if you put up a red color on a monitor I can actually see it. I have never hog hunted with NV equipment so I couldn't tell you what it looks like to me, but with a green lens 12v wheat light, to me, their eyes light up just like a deer or a dog.

Fernando
December 8, 2010, 04:56 PM
Ai ai! The picture of the 8 small boars was taken with my Wildview 5mp IR and it’s the only stealth camera I got. The flash is IR (tiny red leds) and when it is dark a round filter elevates and cover the objective. But anyway, the eyes of the pigs shine when I light up the IR illuminator of my Yukon Sentinel 3x60 or the IR illuminator of my Yukon Ranger 5x42.

Another wildview pic:

http://i51.tinypic.com/29gfimq.jpg

Flintknapper
December 8, 2010, 09:19 PM
Double N/S wrote:


That sort of eyeshine is what I do see regularly with NG gear and IR lights, so it is something I do expect to see. Hogs may not have a tapetum, but IR reflects very well.
Perhaps with NG and IR lights. The very nature of NG is centered around multiplying the available light.

Also, with Fernando's pic(s) an IR flash was used and many digital cameras will pick up IR depending upon how they are filtered. The pic represents what the CAMERA can see... not what the unaided human eye can see.

The subject of the OP's original post was about about feeder lights (using visible light), how we got off onto IR and hunting by Moonlight....I don't know, but the mods have been generous to allow additional information and tangents.
(Thank you)

You don't get that sort of reflection with human eyes.
Nope, humans and most primates pretty much come in last (right behind hogs) for reflection from the eyes. Lemur's are an exception because they do have a tapetum.

I am still trying to understand how it is that the lens is reflecting the light.
You certainly may get some reflection off of a cornea, but I am not understanding how the light is reflecting off of the lens.

A hogs eye is capable of reflecting light (depending on the angle) from several sources starting at the wetted surface (tears that lubricate the cornea), next the cornea itself (which is simply the external lens), next the iris (depending upon pigmentation and light intensity), then the crystalline lens (which fine tunes the focus, least likely to reflect, but does), then finally the retina.

How much "eye shine" and which component of the eye most responsible for it...is a discussion we need take up in a separate thread. And I would love to discuss a Pigs Vision with you, (have PM'd you before requesting that).

So....I will reiterate, I am not saying a hog's eyes do NOT shine, I am simply saying the do NOT shine anything similar to the other common animals we see at night...that do have a tapetum, its physically impossible (all other conditions being the same).

In laymen's terms....that was the point of my initial post. At a "feeder" you are not concerned with being able to see the eyes of a hog anyway...if your light is stationed at that point, you will be able to see the body of the animal (your target).

In FFIL's case....he is basically Red Colorblind under field conditions...so a green light might be best for him.

Fernando can not legally use artificial lights at all, so he must rely on good optics combined with moonlight and weather conditions, unless NV is not a restriction.

Double Naught Spy
December 9, 2010, 09:32 AM
The subject of the OP's original post was about about feeder lights (using visible light), how we got off onto IR and hunting by Moonlight....I don't know,

Actually, the OP didn't limit the discussion to visible light. He asked if anyone had experience using feeder lights and noted that he had read that red and green lights don't bother hogs as much as white light. He then posted a NV image from his camera.

Flint stated in response to DNS's comment on IR light being reflected from pig's eye as with with night vision...
So……. don’t expect to see THAT kind of eye shine with hogs...no matter what you use.

Well, we use night vision and you said we can't expect to see eyeshine no matter what we use, yet there it is. Then after seeing multiple pics of IR light being reflected off pigs' eyes, Flint said,....

Perhaps with NG and IR lights. The very nature of NG is centered around multiplying the available light.

So we go from being told to not expect such reflection no matter what we use, to it perhaps working with NG (NV?). There is no "perhaps" about it.

Then NV was apparently dismissed because it does something not right. It multiplies available light. I have news for you. Any time a lens is used to concentrate light to a smaller area than from which the light was sampled, you have amplified the light. Virtually all cameras that use a lens to concentrate a field of view down to a very small area (film or photoreceptors in a digital camera) are using relative amplification.

After Flint stated that the light reflected from a pig comes from the lens, DNS said...
I am still trying to understand how it is that the lens is reflecting the light.
You certainly may get some reflection off of a cornea, but I am not understanding how the light is reflecting off of the lens.

Flint replied...
A hogs eye is capable of reflecting light (depending on the angle) from several sources starting at the wetted surface (tears that lubricate the cornea), next the cornea itself (which is simply the external lens), next the iris (depending upon pigmentation and light intensity), then the crystalline lens (which fine tunes the focus, least likely to reflect, but does), then finally the retina.

Okay, so above it was just light reflecting off the lens. Now, it is off several structures of the eye including the one that that reflects the least and functions to focus light that passes through it, the lens.

Your adaptive abilities are impressive.

Flintknapper
December 9, 2010, 10:55 AM
DNS wrote:

Your adaptive abilities are impressive

No adaptation going on, just an effort to clarify/expand for the sake of the readership, forced by your relentless Nit Picking and challenges.

Everyone seems to be following along just fine except you.

Any "abilities" I might have.....pale in comparison to your desire to be argumentative....and your need to show us what you know (or think you know).

But, Thank you....for your posts, as you have exposed yourself quite well.

Hopefully a mod will administer the "Coup de grace" to this thread, since it has degraded to silly argument.... void of any substance.

Now, run along....and find another thread to derail. I'll provide the popcorn.


Regards,

Flint.

Blue Brick
December 9, 2010, 05:08 PM
Yap, Mercedes, especially the older ones, are great off road vehicles.



How???

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
December 9, 2010, 05:14 PM
They are pretty heavy and have pretty hefty suspension Brick. Most of the older ones had positive differentials so you got pretty good traction as well. You have to remember they are designed in Germany, LOTS of slow in Germany and not near the snow removal they have in the states so they always designed that into their passenger cars.

Blue Brick
December 9, 2010, 05:32 PM
OK, thx.

Fernando
December 9, 2010, 06:12 PM
How are Mercedes, especially the older ones, great off road vehicles?

They have very simple but highly reliable engines that keep on running no matter what if you keep the diesel in the tank. And it does that with mechanical parts and not electronic junk.

http://i53.tinypic.com/efrucg.jpg


Below the engine you have a steel plate so you can hit rocks without break or make holes in important parts; they have a phenomenal suspension that allow us to seat our asses comfortable even in rough terrain and they manage to do that with no jingle noises (mine has 28 years and more than 1.000.000km and no parasite noises from plastics or other loose ****s). Those things can cruise on snow, sand and shallow water lololol.

The germans used to build great cars. Nowadays a new Mercedes stops on the highway and no one knows why, and there is nothing you or other guy from miles around can do to get that piece of crap running again. Older ones just don’t break. Electronics gave us allot of luxuries, but delivered us a big bag of troubles too.

And you want to know something funny about cars and innovations? I also have a Mitsubishi. But instead of being made in Japan was assembled in Netherlands with a Volvo S40 chassis (Swedish) and a French Renault turbo charged diesel engine. It only drinks 5 liters for each 100km (and it flies!) but I cannot cross a small river with it. But I can, if I take the 28 years old Mercedes instead lolol

alsaqr
December 9, 2010, 09:40 PM
Fernando:

This is that last big boar that i killed.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6917170#post6917170

Fernando
December 10, 2010, 03:27 AM
!Huge boar, Alsaqr!!! I can’t even imagine what a .50 cal is! We cannot use such calibers here:( Not even in short guns like pistols and revolvers - civilians are only allow to carry small arms in very special cases and we are limited to 6.35mm (.25) in pistols and .32 in revolvers. Only security forces and the militaries can use bigger calibers in small fire arms.

alsaqr
December 10, 2010, 07:00 AM
!Huge boar, Alsaqr!!! I can’t even imagine what a .50 cal is!

Fernando: Its a .50 caliber muzzleloading rifle.

47dodge
December 13, 2010, 12:11 PM
alsaqr ..that is a nice looking kill...did you eat it..

I have been hog hunting a few times .but not at dark..i see where they have been but never seen one yet....I like the mercedes...My sons first car was a 69 280s with a gas engine and 2. 2 barrel carbs and an aotomatic ..still have it,,,been tweaking on the thing to make it run a bit better....he is 17 now..

harryheadshot
December 13, 2010, 06:39 PM
have you guys been to elusivewildlife.com, they"ve got some really trick kill lights and their not that expensive at all, I was considering trying to use one of their set-ups and bait some yotes in. You all think it'd work?

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