Gun show shooting - real or not?


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ohioguy
December 4, 2010, 11:11 AM
A while back when I mentioned to a female friend of mine I had just come from a gun show, she said something to the effect of "I won't go to those places, a man got shot there". Now, I know what you are all thinking, and she is definably not an anti-gunner. While she does not own a firearm herself (her choice), she loves to go shooting with her fiancee. This struck me as a little out-of-character for her, so I did a little Google searching to see if I could find a news story referring to a shooting or a death at an Ohio gun show. I also searched High Road, I found the Massachusetts story, but that was a combination gun show/shooting event, no? It would probably have been in Columbus, but I didn't limit my search to just Cbus. I could not find anything, maybe I am not searching for the right things. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing at an Ohio gun show, specifically Columbus? That is, a person, an attendee, being shot and possible killed at a gun show? What about elsewhere in the country? The best I can figure, if it happened at all (pretty big if), is it must have been in the parking lot. Every show I have been to has been pretty good about checking for loaded firearms. Sure, human error and Murphy's Law can play a factor, I know. Has anyone ever seen this, or better yet, provide a web link, scan of an article or at least quote from a newspaper? Did this happen, or is it one of those "I heard it from someone I know, so it must be true" kinda deals?

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hso
December 4, 2010, 11:17 AM
I'd ask her to provide the what/where/when while pointing out that there are literally hundreds of gun shows every month and they don't have negligent discharges resulting in injury.

Also point out that serious/fatal car crashes don't stop people from driving because it is a question of risk assessment. We all understand that these serious hazards exist, but we also understand that the frequency is low enough to allow us to accept the risk.

Same for show. Catastrophic potential hazard, but the frequency is so low to make the risk low.

Dravur
December 4, 2010, 11:22 AM
IN Denver, at the Tanner Show, there was a ND shooting. It happened about 8 months ago or so. A person and his friend walked up to the table and person 1 picked up a gun and was showing it to person 2 when person 1 pulled the trigger and person 2 had a brand new hole in his chest. I was amazed at how much blood there was.

The guy who had the table has been banned and is facing more serious charges... Person 1 is horrified and also may face charges. Person 2 survived as far as I know.

There have also been 2 other NDs at the same show over the years that I was a witness to. No one was hurt either of those times.

I was there for all three events....

The worst part was... at theTanner Show, there was nothing in the first aid kits. There was a doctor there and one of the vendors was selling medical kits and they grabbed one of those off his table to give to the doc while he worked on Person 2.

ohioguy
December 4, 2010, 11:28 AM
hso - She did not provide details, and I haven't thought to ask her when I have seen her. And yes, you make an excellent point about statistics. I am more trying to find if it has ever happened in Ohio or elsewhere. I am not looking to get into a verbal match with her, but I want to know if there is any truth to it before I call her on it. I am of the opinion she probably heard it from someone, and took it as fact. I cannot find any mention of it.

Dravur - Wow, crazy. Thanks for the information.
http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-gun-show-shooting2-032010,0,6491435.story

Anyone know if it happening in Ohio? :D

Wishoot
December 4, 2010, 11:33 AM
We recently had a ND at a gun show a little while back in Fond du Lac, WI. I don't think anyone's been intentionally shot at a gun show around here ever.

Justin
December 4, 2010, 11:35 AM
In all my time here, I can recall reading threads about NDs at gun shows, maybe five or six altogether.

NDs at gun shows are rare, but they do happen.

Carl N. Brown
December 4, 2010, 11:51 AM
There was a shooting range event where an eight year old was allowed to shoot an Uzi and froze on the trigger, lost control and was fatally shot. That has been portrayed not only as a "gun show" but as somehow typical of gun shows ever since. It was a shooting range event, not a gun show.

Kinda like not going to a NASCAR event because spectators are always being killed by out of control stock cars.

geekWithA.45
December 4, 2010, 11:52 AM
The ND @ the gunshow I was at was a fumble by the guy at the door who was zip tying sidearms.

No injuries, but it's one more discharge than their woulda been had they just left it alone.


Kinda like not going to a NASCAR event because spectators are always being killed by out of control stock cars.

I think that kinda says it all.

of course, apparently, if you come from a Red State, your cultural events all carry risks of death and/or dismemberment, as opposed to Blue State pursuits such as opera and wine/cheese tastings. :neener:

bigfatdave
December 4, 2010, 12:21 PM
There was a ND of a shotgun into the roof at the Maumee Bay GCA show (near Toledo) a while back.

Considering the concentration of firearms, ammunition, and derpy people, the ratio of discharges at gunshows is amazingly low, probably better than the average hunting group on a per-person basis. The ratio of actual firearms-caused injuries is even lower. Your friend has allowed a rumor to dictate her actions in a small and probably inconsequential way, beyond getting her to stop spreading the silly rumor, there's likely little you can do about an irrational association.

tunnug
December 4, 2010, 12:26 PM
Earlier this year there was a ND at a show in Phoenix,AZ
someone snuck a round into a .45, not sure the type of gun, someone else pulled the trigger later and was surprised with the firing.
The round hit the concrete floor and either a piece of the jacket or a chip of concrete hit a vendor on the arm, luckily no one else was hurt or killed.
Never heard anything else from the investigation.

MAKster
December 4, 2010, 12:38 PM
Unfortunately this happens frequently. It's almost always a dealer who seems to forget that all guns are supposed to be unloaded. There are many threads on this site about NDs at gun shows.

John Wayne
December 4, 2010, 01:13 PM
There are plenty of reasons not to attend gun shows. High prices, high entrance fees, dealers lacking social skills, basic firearm knowledge, and personal hygeine are among them, but I have never been deterred for fear of an accident happening.

If you ask me though, accidents happen because people assume that because a gun has a zip-tie on it, it is somehow a guarantee that that gun is unloaded and cannot fire. It is no excuse for not checking the chamber and not practicing safe gun handling.

ohioguy
December 4, 2010, 01:50 PM
BFD, you are likely right. I was guessing it was just a rumor, but I wanted to see if there was an actual verifiable case of a fatality due to nd at a gun show, specifically in Ohio (gun show only, not combination show and shoot). I would think that if it did happen in the last 5 years or so, it would've been all over the 6 o'clock news and available in the Columbus Dogpatch... I mean Dispatch. Thanks everyone for the info, I am pretty sure this did not happen here.

rscalzo
December 4, 2010, 02:04 PM
allowed to shoot an Uzi and froze on the trigger, lost control and was fatally shot

It was a Micro UZI which under the best of conditions are difficult to handle. It rotated backward and struck the child in the head. The case is still in the courts along with the civil suits. It did not occur at a gun show but a club event.

There was an incident in Sept related to a show in Manchester, NH where two idiots purchased handguns that apparently had no idea how to operate. They loaded them and not knowing the procedures for safe operations wound up shooting one of them. fortunately not life threatening.

I can't remember any incidents up here but I stopped going to the shows as they are mostly a waste of time. Overpriced by a wide margin. Apparently I'm not the only one who stopped because the show in Sept. I went to because of boredom and prompting by friends was far from full. But as far as accidential discharges, they are rare.

Lakeshore
December 4, 2010, 03:47 PM
In July 2002 a 13 year old boy attending a gun show with his dad in Norcross, Georgia was accidentally shot with a .38 spl. revolver and later died.

Owen Sparks
December 4, 2010, 09:22 PM
I have never seen an accidental discharge at a gun show, but I did have a car wreck on the way to one. Does that mean that going to gun shows is dangerous?

medalguy
December 4, 2010, 11:28 PM
I have been at several shows with AD events. The only one where anyone was actually injured occurred many years ago, about 1965, in Greenville SC. A dealer behind my table was packing up on Sunday afternoon, sitting on his table, playing with his carry piece, a large caliber revolver. This jackass was cocking the gun and letting the hammer down when one time it slipped and discharged into the concrete floor at his feet. The person hit was his girlfriend sitting on the table opposite him. She was hit in the upper inner thigh and taken to a local hospital for treatment. I'm not sure what this guy's WIFE thought about the AD. Might have had another one when he got home I'm guessing. :p

Carl N. Brown
December 4, 2010, 11:44 PM
Don't let her suggest going dancing instead. I won't go to those places, 87 people got killed at the "Happy Land" social club fire, Bronx NY, 25 Mar 1990, when an arsonist poured a jug of gasoline and lit it up.

Might as well stay home and curl up into fetal ball.

Ohio Gun Guy
December 4, 2010, 11:51 PM
Hide.....deep, deep in the closet.....never come out. It safer in there! :evil:

But seriously..... I have been to many shows (May go this weekend If I can slip away) and have never whitnessed a ND / AD at one. However, I am willing to gently nudge muzzles out of my face / direction when someone is being carless (Or just stupid).

surjimmy
December 5, 2010, 12:08 AM
I was at a Medcalf show in Oklahoma City a few months ago, when a guy was shot in the leg by a customer. He had brought his carry gun in and took the mag out and placed it on the table to sale. He forgot to clear the weapon, customer pulled the trigger and the 9mm round went through the table and hit him in the leg. A few weeks later there was another AD in Kansas @ another one of his shows.

esheato
December 5, 2010, 12:20 AM
I was 10 feet from a uhh...well...a guy that had an ND at the Sacramento show a few years ago. Standing outside the entrance, he fiddled with it in the holster and put a round into the concrete inches from his toes.

I don't think I've ever heard a place go dead quiet so quickly.

xcgates
December 5, 2010, 12:46 AM
The above story reminded me of an instructor I had, who had recently returned from his second tour, once in Afghanistan, once in Iraq.

The closest time he ever came to death was when someone got careless at the clearing barrel, and sent a round about a foot from his head.

The Lone Haranguer
December 5, 2010, 07:57 AM
My front porch has snow on it, but that didn't stop me from going outside for fear I might slip and fall. :rolleyes: There is a certain element of risk in any activity worth doing. Sure, A/NDs may happen at gun shows or shops, but there is more risk driving to it - or finding a parking space - than once you actually get inside.

xcgates
December 5, 2010, 10:11 AM
^Especially with the jokers who like to cruise across the isles at 20 mph, completely ignoring that some people might like the idea of having isles, and *might* get a *tad* bit annoyed when he has to get on the binders as hard as possible because some car just appeared out of left field.

(seriously, I must be the only guy who doesn't just fly across the mostly empty sections of parking lots.)

Jim Watson
December 5, 2010, 10:25 AM
Unfortunately, it happens. I have been present for one person being shot with a gun that mysteriously "got loaded" at a show.
I have also seen the hole in the ceiling of an auditorium, put there shortly before I arrived. The next year a guy shot himself when reloading and reholstering his personal weapon after going through the show unloaded. They don't have gun shows there any more.

But in general, I feel I am at more risk driving to the gun show or range than while around "all those guns."

Messenger Guard
December 5, 2010, 10:52 AM
I attended a show in Knoxville some years ago at the Jacobs building in Chilhowee park (Mike Holloway's Gun Show in the Smokies). A young fellow had a ND with a .22 cal. tube fed rifle. The thing sounded very loud in the auditorium. Things immediately got quite and several supposedly unloaded firearms started coming out of pockets (just in case the first shot wasn't the last I suspect). The guy responsible started cussing and I thought he had been shot but he was just upset about the gun evidently having one hang up in the tube only to drop in on his ill advised trigger pull of a rimfire. I knew it must have been shocking to him but He made an ass of himself by showing no concern for who may have been hit in the crowded show. The fellow who had the table was immediately packed up and removed from the show. I always wondered if someone may have spiked his gun or he really left one behind by accident. Luckily no one was hurt. I've been to maybe a hundred or more over the years and that was the only one I've ever seen. One is enough since I was pretty close (maybe 20 feet away) when it occurred.

pharmer
December 5, 2010, 11:05 AM
Around the 4th of July, I was at the Orlando Fairgrounds show when a "dealer" was clearing a .45. Must have had a finger on the trigger because the bullet hit the concrete and fragments caught 2 guys in the lower leg. I was about 100 ft away and it caused me to head for the door (after I got off the floor and dusted off). Joe

rscalzo
December 5, 2010, 11:27 AM
High prices, high entrance fees, dealers lacking social skills, basic firearm knowledge, and personal hygiene

Absolutely correct. I have more concern of an AD at my club than at a show.

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