Darn, the FCD made em' too short.


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ChefJeff1
December 5, 2010, 12:10 PM
So I was loading up some 357 magswith hornady 158 grain xtp using my lyman manual for data. All cases trimmed perfectly. I started with the beginning charge of h110 and loaded 10 of each up to the max of 17 grains. I seated them just right measuring them. Then I screwed in the Lee crimp/post size die and crimped them all with a medium firm crimp, about 3/4 turn of the knob. Lee says 1/2 to 1 turn should do it. This die is for the 38 special but that shouldn't matter.

Anyway, I decided to measure the second to last cartridge and wow, way too short. It went from 1.590 to 1.575. I think that's way too short to shoot safely considering a magnum powder and a load oerking to the top. I"m going to put them in the DUD bin for when I get a bullet puller. Better safe than sorry.

So, I guess I should just add .015 to the seating length before using the lee crimper.

The bullets are still crimped in the groove, just the very top of it, not in the middle.

I don't think crimping with the seating die alters the oal that much, does it?

Well, back to it, Jeff

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ironhead7544
December 5, 2010, 12:31 PM
As long as its crimped in the groove there should be no problem. The Lee Factory Crimp die shouldnt seat the bullet deeper. It has a sliding bushing that doesnt touch the bullet. Or its not supposed to touch it. I would try loading another cartridge and check for this problem. Could be something wrong with the die. I use the FCD on all my pistol loads and never had this problem.

243winxb
December 5, 2010, 12:36 PM
The bullets are still crimped in the groove, just the very top of it, In the crimp groove is ok. The starting load using Hodgdon website would be 15 gr. But 3% less from a max. of 16.7gr is 16.2gr. for a starting load. COL 1.580" A change of .015" in COL on crimping* is too much.

rcmodel
December 5, 2010, 12:37 PM
+1
The Lee FCD has no bullet seating function, so it can't seat the bullet deeper.

It could be you were seating them too long to start with, and the FCD crimp is pulling them deeper into the case by the bottom edge of the bullet cannulure.

But regardless of all that, if they are crimped in the cannulure, they are the right length.
.015" isn't going to matter a tall.

rc

243winxb
December 5, 2010, 12:42 PM
This die is for the 38 special but that shouldn't matter.

If the die is screwed in to far, it might. You need .135" more between the shell plate and FCD, i guess? :confused: The difference between 38 & 357 Carbide Factory Crimp explanation

While the bullet seating die that comes with the die set will apply a crimp to the case, there are some great advantages to using the Factory crimp die. One is that cases are post-sized by the carbide sizing ring in the base of the die. This is like the sizing ring in a resizing die, except that it is ground to maximum allowable outside diameter for the case involved. So if there is a buckle in the case from excessive crimp or a bulge from a slightly oversize bullet, the complete cartridge is resized as it is withdrawn from the die; You can be certain that it will chamber, because it has been resized after the bullet was seated and crimped. There is no provision for seating the bullet with the Factory Crimp Die.

The type of crimp on the die depends upon the type of cartridge. With cases that headspace on the case mouth such as the 45ACP, the die essentially reduces the outer diameter of the case mouth into the bullet. On other cases, a roll crimp is applied.

The degree of crimp is adjusted by how far down the knob on the top of the die is turned in. The proper setting for this die is with the adjustment knob turned all the way up, turn the die into the press until it touches the shell plate or shell holder which should be in the raised position. Then, raise an empty case into the die and begin to turn the knob inward until you feel it stop on the top of the case. Another 1/2 turn will apply a good crimp and you can adjust from there to suit your specific need.

ChefJeff1
December 5, 2010, 01:04 PM
Lee lists the same item for the 38 and 357. The instructions with my dies don't say anything about adjusting the crimper. They say to unscrew 2 turns the expander and seater.

i think I'll just seat all the bullets and then go back and crimp them with the seater die.

This thing frustrates me.

ChefJeff1
December 5, 2010, 01:07 PM
Thanks for your help 243. Those instructions are different slightly than mine. Yours say to insert and empty shell to adjust the die. Mine say to insert a loaded round into the die to adjust.

I like the FCD for my rifle better, you can see it happening.

Rodentman
December 5, 2010, 01:17 PM
Wouldn't the FCD set the same with a loaded round or empty case?

Steve C
December 5, 2010, 01:30 PM
Put the caliper away, you don't need it in the least to reload revolver cartridges. If the bullet doesn't protrude beyond the cylinder face you are good to go with a revolver. Measuring and worrying about a 1/100th of an inchi IN OAL is pointless. You need enough crimp to prevent the bullet from walking out of the case under recoil and with H110 and W296, enough criimp to hold the bullet in place long enough for pressure to build properly.

243winxb
December 5, 2010, 01:33 PM
Wouldn't the FCD set the same with a loaded round or empty case?
Only Lee knows, what i posted is from there link.

Rodentman
December 5, 2010, 01:35 PM
I thought the OP was worried about the bullet being seated too deeply, and that would be an issue, I'd guess, especially with H110 near max loads. But if they're crimped in the cannelure I don't see how the length would be that short.......

243winxb
December 5, 2010, 01:44 PM
he is only .005" deeper compared to the Hodgdon website length of 1.580" with that hornady bullet

jfh
December 5, 2010, 01:50 PM
you most likely have the FCD die body seated too deep. Back it off, back the crimp stem out, and start the adjustment over.

I use this die all the time to test for the effect of different performance on different amounts of crimp for a given load, and I have found that when the body is set too deep, it can affect LOA--at least, affect it as much as brass length does.

OTOH, what others have pointed out about being in the crimp groove is correct. So, LOA changes are kind of irrlevant, I suppose.

Jim H.

918v
December 5, 2010, 04:13 PM
When you roll crimp, the act of rolling the case mouth into the crimp groove will pull the bullet deeper into the case. What you see is normal. You may want to back off the crimp a bit, though.

.015" does not mean anything in the .357 Mag.

RandyP
December 5, 2010, 04:57 PM
Have you checked out te Lee self-help videos? They are great instructional tools for all the Lee products and the one on the Factory Crimp Dies should get you where you want to be.

http://leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html

ranger335v
December 5, 2010, 07:29 PM
"wow, way too short. It went from 1.590 to 1.575. I think that's way too short to shoot safely"

Not really.

General Lee
December 5, 2010, 07:44 PM
I dont see how the FCD can even push the bullet in unless you have the wrong one. Unless the way the FCD is different from the .223 one the only way it could make the length shorter would be to crush the case. The bullet is never touched.

918v
December 5, 2010, 11:11 PM
The action of the crimper sleeve rolling the case mouth into the cannelure causes the case mouth to pull the bullet down into the case.

Stumper
December 5, 2010, 11:18 PM
Unwarranted paranoia.

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