Just pulled a dud I had at the range...


PDA






Mags
December 7, 2010, 07:53 PM
... the powder was clumped and wet. Too much oil in the gun? BTW it was a 9mm GDHP and the round in the chamber in my CCW piece.:what:

Needless to say I picked up and tested some carry ammo that day.

If you enjoyed reading about "Just pulled a dud I had at the range..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
243winxb
December 7, 2010, 08:06 PM
Were you loading outside while it was raining? :D Do you wash your brass in a liquid? Or tumble. Some spray type lubes/cleaners will get to the primer/powder as it penetrates. This happened with some PD that spray there revolver with the ammo still in the chamber.

Walkalong
December 7, 2010, 08:24 PM
Brass completely dry when you loaded it?

GP100man
December 7, 2010, 08:26 PM
More info needed !!

Factory or Handload ???

Old ammo that got sweated on ????

Do you rotate your magazines & ammo ???

I used to take the primer sealer & seal my carry ammo , may go back to that practice !!!

Mags
December 7, 2010, 09:30 PM
Handloaded, dry nickel brass,(I live in NM to answer any humidity questions) and the primer did go - off the bullet exited the case about 1/16 of an inch. The powder was Ramshot Shillouette. The funny thing is if it was oil I thought the primer would have been the first to dud.

243winxb
December 7, 2010, 10:28 PM
Powder charge? Starting load, or maximum. What data does Ramshot give? A very lite load might not burn correctly because of low pressure. Takes a lot sometimes to kill a primer.

GNLaFrance
December 7, 2010, 10:55 PM
The funny thing is if it was oil I thought the primer would have been the first to dud.

It's much easier to ruin powder than to kill primers. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=558374&highlight=oil+kill+primers

1SOW
December 7, 2010, 10:59 PM
I might be able to see CLP penetrating the bullet seal. That product will travel/penetrate the length of the gun.

A 50mph rainstorm shouldn't wet the powder.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2010, 12:47 AM
This sounds strange. The powder was wet but when you constructed the load it was dry?
Did you crimp the case when you loaded the round? If you did I don't see how gun oil could have gotten inside the case. Was it the only round effected?

ReloaderFred
December 8, 2010, 01:05 AM
Back in the late 1970's, when I was rangemaster for our department, we were carrying both revolvers and pistols, with about 300 of each in the field. When I had the Deputies shoot up their duty rounds, there were several that misfired, both in .38 Special and 9mm. When I pulled the bullets on them, they all had oil in the powder, all clumped up.

What I found was that they were spraying their duty guns with WD-40 with the ammunition in them. As far as I'm concerned, WD-40 has only two uses. The first is to make things smell good, and the other is to kill ammunition. Other than that, it's only good for removing adhesive. (Ok, that's three uses).

It apparently doesn't take a whole lot of penetrant to get into ammunition, and it goes without saying that we only carried factory ammunition for duty use. I don't know the circumstances surrounding Mags' polluted ammunition, but my advice is to never spray anything on a firearm with rounds in it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2010, 01:07 AM
I don't know the circumstances surrounding Mags' polluted ammunition, but my advice is to never spray anything on a firearm with rounds in it.

That sounds like a good plan to me...

Mags
December 8, 2010, 02:40 AM
Nope, never cleaned it with ammo in it. Not to mention that is just unsafe. I also always kept the bolt face dry. I am thinking oil leaked in from somwhere but I only lubed the slide rails on that gun.

Iron Sight
December 8, 2010, 04:42 AM
I found that if I am using/adding a liquid polish to my walnut polishing media sometimes it clumps up in a few of my shell cases while polishing. If I add it to the media for a short spin before the brass I dont seem to have the problem.

243winxb
December 8, 2010, 08:54 AM
Silhouette-Our ballistics department is in the process of proofing the data to be posted on the Ramshot website.Silhouette is a double based, modified (flattened) spherical powder http://www.ramshot.com/powders/silhouette.php Seems Silhouette is a newer powder, not fully tested maybe? :confused: Change powder brand to Alliants Bullseye or Unique to use with there data with the 9mm GDHP. Accurate Powder- Any company that changes product & calls the powders by the same name/number, would not be my powder supplyer. This may not be your problem:scrutiny:. But your loading practices might be? Double check everything when loading. :) http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/1970svs1990sAA5Powder.jpg

steve4102
December 8, 2010, 09:09 AM
Silhouette is not new, it is the old Win WAP, exact same stuff, been around a long time.

243winxb
December 8, 2010, 10:55 AM
Steve4102 said WAP and Silhouette are the same powder, cept Silhouette has some new and improved coatings. http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=2424348&postcount=6 With "new and improved coatings" making it not the same. :D Seems Ramshot was in the process of proofing the data at the time they posted there copyright. Ramshot is an exclusive brand of Western Powders Inc.
Copyright 2004-2009 Western Powders Inc:) New WAP -- Winchester Action Pistol introduced in 1994- if this is correct, why does Ramshot have to proof, load data, in 2004? :confused: Just want to learn, not argue. :)

rfwobbly
December 8, 2010, 01:37 PM
I vote for too much case lube or oil wicking in after the fact.

Mags
December 8, 2010, 02:16 PM
Just checked my load journal and that load had 5.5 grains of Shillouette.
I vote for too much case lube I don't lube pistol cases.

You guys think this would happen to premium factory defensive ammo? I wonder because I don't want to need to use my CCW piece and have a click instead of a bang! I loaded that pistol up with Winchester bonded PDX +p.

Walkalong
December 8, 2010, 03:42 PM
why does Ramshot have to proofSince powder companies retest powders frequently, and make changes in their newest manuals/online data, I would think this is normal.

CraigC
December 8, 2010, 04:23 PM
There should never be enough oil in or on a firearm to soak into your cartridges. Like the old adage, "wipe on as much as possible, then wipe off as much as possible".

ForumSurfer
December 8, 2010, 04:50 PM
A 50mph rainstorm shouldn't wet the powder. Agreed. I picked up 150 rounds of WWB at walmart. The bag ripped and all 3 boxes fell into the pothole by my truck. It was raining and all 3 boxes were submerged. I box proceeded to tear apart so I had to fish for all 50 rounds.

They all shot fine.

Unless you soak your ccw piece in penetrating oil regularly, I wouldn't suspect oil or lube to be the culprit.

I don't lube pistol cases.
Answers the question about too much lube when reloading.

I'm stumped!

I wonder because I don't want to need to use my CCW piece and have a click instead of a bang! I loaded that pistol up with Winchester bonded PDX +p. That would have been my reaction, too!

SlamFire1
December 8, 2010, 05:49 PM
I am thinking oil leaked in from somwhere but I only lubed the slide rails on that gun.

If you did not oil the powder during reloading, and did not oil the ammunition when in the gun, then there is only one answer: GREMLINS! :evil:

snuffy
December 8, 2010, 05:54 PM
If you did not oil the powder during reloading, and did not oil the ammunition when in the gun, then there is only one answer: GREMLINS! :evil:

Or sabotage! Got anybody around that REALLY don't like you?:scrutiny::uhoh::eek:

243winxb
December 8, 2010, 08:22 PM
:D The manufacture of double-base powders requires the addition of nitroglycerine to the nitrocellulose. Two methods can be used. One method uses organic solvents, the other uses water. The organic solvent method mixes nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine with solvents and any desired additives to form a doughy mixture (Meyer 1987; National Research Council 1998; Radford Army Ammunition Plant 1987). The mixture is then pressed into blocks that can be fed into the extrusion press and cutting machine. The resulting granules are screened prior to solvent removal and the application of various coatings. The powder is dried, screened again, then blended to achieve homogeneity. The water method adds the nitroglycerine to a nitrocellulose water suspension to form a paste (Meyer 1987; Radford Army Ammunition Plant 1987). The water is removed by evaporation on hot rollers, then the dried powder is shaped by extrusion and cutting.

Good info on powder > http://firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/McCord_gunpowder/index.htm http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/smilies/custom/bigsmyl2.gif

GP100man
December 8, 2010, 10:49 PM
No answer for the gummed up powder, maybe pick up some lube from reloading equipment ???

As far as primers they are hard to kill ,at least CCIs are !!

You have a cup ,then the paste , then a absorbent layered backed with foil protecting the mix & finally the anvil

gonesnookin
December 9, 2010, 07:07 AM
What was the brand of primer?
I had some bad primers that gummed up the powder
the brand was HMF green and white box.

243winxb
December 9, 2010, 09:13 AM
Mags, your powder started burning and then just quit. Back in the 1970's, i seen this 1 time in 22-250 using H450 powder ( now discontinued), CCI mag primer. The bulllet did not move from the case. More than 1 round did this of the 20. Is this possible with a small amount of powder? :confused: Your guess is as good as mine. :) Some powders, if you read the link above, have coatings/retardents to control burning rate. If a batch of powder is to "fast" it get "coated" to slow its burn rate. Powder lots also get "blended", taking a "fast" batch and a "slow" batch to get the corrected "lots" burning rate they want.Some powders light/burn more easier than others, some will need a magnum primer. Your powder started life as WAP, was discontinued, then reborn as Ramshot Silhouette . I would change powder or if you have a lot of Ramshot Silhouette, change to a magnum primer. Its a powder problem, IMO, if all else was correct.

If you enjoyed reading about "Just pulled a dud I had at the range..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!