1911 homestyle trigger job


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bigjim
December 23, 2003, 06:13 PM
Here is what I did.

Removed trigger parts.

Held hammer in a smooth jawed small high precision vise.
Can be had for 20 dollars from Harbor frieght.

Took a feeler gage .021 and layed in on the hammer in front of the hooks to limit the cut. It also gives you a guide to cut evenly.

Then I took a superduper hard fine stone( polishing stone for knives) and cut the hooks down to .021 keeping the angle that was there to begin with.

Then I grabbed the sear chucked it up in the smooth jawed little vise putting the engagement surface even with the top of the vise and kepted the same angle on the edge. Then just touched it to polish the engagement surface.

Took just a tiny bit of tension off the first leaf of the trigger leaf spring. ( very tiny amount ). You could barely tell the difference by looking.

Dropped in a 19 Lb Wolf mainspring.

Cleaned parts put the gun back together function tested the gun and boosted the trigger 5 times.

Trigger gage said 3.5 lbs. No creep at all. Entire process took less than 2O mins. Dry fired the gun 200 times and weighed the trigger again. Still at 3.5 lbs and feels fine. Can not get the hammer to follow down no matter how hard I let the slide drop.

What am I missing here? Why do people charge so much for this?

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Monkeyleg
December 23, 2003, 06:19 PM
How about because some of us are afraid to do what you did? :)

bigjim
December 23, 2003, 06:37 PM
LOL!

Hmmmmm Ok...then you gunsmith guys..... Does this process sound ok?
what am I missing?

Rich in VA
December 23, 2003, 07:32 PM
You don't say what kind of parts you have, but I assume they're not junk.

I can usually do 3.5# without touching the hammer or sear, just tweaking the sear spring and doing a bit of boosting. This is if the parts aren't junk.

If you're careful, your process is fine. Don't think that you'll do that every time the first time, and keep some spare change handy to buy some extra sears.........

How much do you think is fair to charge? I charge $65 labor, plus parts, and I will not work on a stock Para hammer. Some triggers are quick, as was yours, some are not.

Careful how you drop that slide, that's an easy way to break off the sear nose. Once or twice is fine as a check, but don't make a habit of it.

Sounds like you did a good job.

Rich

bigjim
December 23, 2003, 07:55 PM
Stock parts on a Springfield WW2 milspec. I had a set of new GI parts sear/disconnector/hammer that I just tried the same thing on. They came out good too. I hear you about bad parts.

For what it is worth 65 dollars is a fair price. Smiths around here charge more and takes weeks/months for a trigger job. Out of survival I needed to learn how to do this myself.

SnWnMe
December 23, 2003, 08:12 PM
"1911 Homestyle trigger job"

Is there any other kind?

I do the same spring manipulation coupled with a lighter hammerspring as you described. I don't stone my hammer hooks though. I only polish. I also polish the sides of the hammer.

My record is one sear messed up in 4 1911s worked on. My best is a 3#er on a Series 80. It's held up since 1995.

Did you also improve the fit of the trigger to remove play? An oversized aftermarket trigger that is fitted nicely will wrap things up nicely for you:)

Sean Smith
December 23, 2003, 08:22 PM
The price ranges I've seen from competent 'smiths usually run something like this, in rough figures:

Basic trigger jobs (stock parts): $70-80
Nice trigger jobs w/ new triggers: $110-130
Uber trigger jobs (replace ALL trigger components with high end tool steel goodies): $250ish

Kind of hard to say what is and isn't worth what if you haven't pulled the triggers in question, but in general I'd say the round numbers I listed are what I consider "reasonable."

bigjim
December 23, 2003, 08:24 PM
Yes I need to order a better trigger. But this is a Mil-spec looking gun.
Don't want one of those candy assed sissy triggers on this one. I swapped in the wide GI type spur hammer I just did the prep on and it looks cool. Now I just need to find a good looking gi thumb safety and this gun will be how it should have been from the factory.

I have passed up nice guns with sorry triggers before because I did not want to have to deal with some prima-donna beaaachh of a gunsmith to fix the trigger.

Now I don't have to anymore! :)

bigjim
December 23, 2003, 08:29 PM
Sean, I hear ya.

its not the cash I really mind. Its the wait and the rampant BS. If I could take my gun in and the Smith looks it over. Then tells me to come back later that day and pick it up done, I would have paid 150 dollars for a basic job and been happy.

They all love to say....you can have fast, cheap, good. Pick any two.

What you often end up getting is SLOW>>>> EXPENSIVE >>>> and PISS POOR.

No excuse for it. Don't take in more work than you can do.....on time....
and correctly. PERIOD

stans
December 24, 2003, 10:18 AM
The problem with do-it-yourself trigger jobs is that they are usually done incorrectly. :mad:

The sear angle gets changed, the hammer hooks get cut too shallow, angle might be changed as well. The sear spring gets a few new bends. Then the kitchen table gunsmith goes to the range with his fresh 3 pound trigger pull, loads a full magazine, racks the slide, maybe the hammer does not follow at this time, but when the trigger is pulled, the 1911 goes full auto (a condition that J.M. Browning did not have in mind for this design) and rounds go down range, up into the air, and the roof over the firing line gets ventilated .:what: This has not happened to me, but I have seen it happen to others.

My best trigger job also came in around 3.5 pounds, have not had the hammer follow even after a few thousand rounds, some loaded to maximum. The key is, as you did, watch what you are doing and don't change the engagement surface angles.:)

Sunray
December 24, 2003, 11:15 AM
"...cut evenly..." Cut what? There shouldn't be any cutting of the sear. Just polishing. You cut a 1/t turn off the main spring. Polish all mating surfaces and that's it. You can change the springs too.

bigjim
December 24, 2003, 11:44 AM
please reread the original post. The cutting refered to was the hammer hooks which were WAY to long. Those I cut to .021.

I did just as you said and just touched the sear with the finest stone I had to polish it.

1911Tuner
December 26, 2003, 11:18 AM
T'was saifd:

"...cut evenly..." Cut what? There shouldn't be any cutting of the sear.

Unless it's too long...which some can be. The other situation is when the
holes for the sear pin aren't drilled/reamed dead straight in the frame, which can also happen, and more often than you'd think. (Can I get
an AMEN from the poor smiths who've tackled a few Auto-Ordnance 1911s
and had to stome the sear at an angle?)



You cut a 1/t turn off the main spring.

Please don't. With mainsprings available in one-pound increments, there's
no need to screw up the geometry. In days gone by, we put a rod through
the coil springs and spun'em on a belt sander to reduce the power and retain a full-length spring. No need to do even that little trick these days
with 1911 mainsprings available in about any load rating that you could ever need. FWIW...I don't go lower than 21 pounds on any mainspring,
but that's just me. Cutting down on the mainspring load doesn't have
a lot of bearing on the trigger pull anyway, assuming all else is good.

Polish all mating surfaces and that's it.

There are a couple surfaces that are better left alone. The backside of the
sear primary angle is one...The top of the disconnector is the other.
Not meanin' to flame...Just tryin' to prevent some forest fires.

Cheers!
Tuner

bigjim
December 26, 2003, 11:52 AM
I would like to acknowledge 1911tuner for his tireless efforts to share his experience in a manner which encourages rather the embarrasses the beginner.

If we had more "industry professionals" interested in sharing the secrets and helping others along I think the shooting sports in general would be improved. I also have found the "how to" section over on Pistolsmith.com helpful.

Look most "gun smithing" is not rocket science. All we need is someone to show us once or twice. Then we go ahead and practice. We will ruin some guns? Not if we are careful and don't get in over our head, but yeah we probably will mess something up once or twice.

But let me tell you something. A basic trigger job on a 1911 with the pin holes in the right places and trigger parts that are decent, is possible for ANYONE to do. Now does this mean I would try to tackle a 1.5 lb trigger on a game-gun with all kinds of expensive trick parts, that are geared to a very very high end shooter...... HELL NO!

But guys the days of waiting 5 months to pay a hundred dollars to some "smith" to take the creep out of a Springfield Mil-spec are over for this shooter. What do you do after carrying the gun around for a few years and shooting it a lot? Do you take to the gunsmith to clean it for you? We as a group can and should do better.

This is just my opinion. But it seems to me that anybody that can not change a tire, fill the gas tank, and wash the windows on a car, has no business driving. They are a danger to others.

Similarly if you are shooting a gun and don't have a basic understanding of how it works, the ability to strip it all the way down to look it over and ensure it is in proper working order, it makes me wonder just how safe you are to be around?

Anyway thank you to 1911tuner and the other experienced gunnies that are willing to take the time to show us the things that all gun owners should know. You guys give back a lot to the shooting world, and some of us are even open minded to listen and take advantage of it.

1911Tuner
December 26, 2003, 02:11 PM
bigjim...You're mighty welcome.

Yeah, in the beginning, parts will be ruined. That's part of it. Even some experienced pistolsmiths and tinkerers do it from time to time. I do...You will, and as long as we learn from our mistakes AND our successes, it's a positive thing. Anybody who tells you that they've never killed a part is
blowin' smoke.

The very best advice that I can give anybody is to first know the basics
and go slow for the first few times. Patience is the key. Measure twice,
cut once. Any time a trigger group is modified, even in the slightest way,
be careful and load a few magazines with two rounds for the test firing.

Good luck to everybody!

Tuner

Old Fuff
December 26, 2003, 06:48 PM
On “do it yourself” trigger pull jobs.

When everything works they are fine, but if an inexperienced user makes even a small mistake they can be dangerous.

The hammer hooks are too deep? It depends. The manual safety has a lug that blocks the sear so that it doesn’t move, in theory safely holding the hammer at full-cock while the pistol is being carried in Condition One (cocked & locked). But in a less then perfect world there may be enough clearance between the lug and sear to allow the sear to move a little bit if the trigger is pulled while the safety is engaged. If so you have to deduct the movement from the hook’s total height. If the hooks have been reduced the trigger-pull job may require a new or modified manual safety to be safe.

So you reduced the hooks to .021”. Did you do anything about the half-cock notch (1911 style guns) or half-cock ledge (Series 80 Colt’s)? If not, and you install a trigger with a stop screw, you may risk having the hammer catch or “tick” the half-cock position as it falls causing mechanical damage or misfires.

Is the sear bearing evenly on both hooks, or just on one side? If only one side is bearing you may have to advance a hook without changing any angles. Do you have the experience and the correct file too do this?

I could go on, but this should be enough to make my point. A professional pistolsmith’s charges includes both his experience and the tools, jigs & fixtures and gages that can make the difference between a truly safe job and one that might cause serious problems later.

I know. I have an extensive collection of messed-up sears and hammers, as well as other parts taken out of other peoples’ pistols after they brought me their gun asking for help, because “it didn’t work right.”

This is not to say one can’t do they’re own work. Just that too do the job right – really right – you need to know all of the ramifications on what too do and not do, and have the necessary equipment. There is a lot more involved then filing down the hammer hooks, polishing the sear, and changing out or bending some springs.

But haven't people done exactly that and everything worked fine? Sure, some have. But on the other hand some have ended up with an result that was nothing short of an accident waiting to happen.

1911Tuner
December 26, 2003, 07:26 PM
Wise. The 1911 is a deceptively simple thing, until it comes to tinkering
with the trigger group. Tread lightly there. FWIW, I don't do match-grade
triggers, and I get nervous whenever I see hammer hooks shorter than
.020 inch long. I like .023 on a carry gun, and for the reasons stated.

Even if the lug on the thumb safety allows zero sear movement, they can
and do wear with time and use.

Again...be very careful when messing with the trigger.

Luck!

Tuner

bigjim
December 26, 2003, 07:54 PM
I am sure oldfluff is correct. His post unfortunately is a perfect example of why I value posts like 1911tuner makes.

Most posts = You can't, to dangerous for everyone but me and the rest of the 1911 brain trust. Oh you need a mill and electron mass spectrometer to do that!

1911tuners posts = Wise precautions, sane limits, easy to follow instructions, encouragement, and yes a bit of kindness for us mear mortals.

Just so knowbody gets the wrong idea, I don't think 1911tuner is God nor am I trying to sleep with him. I just admire his Posts, information, and attitude.

Now I am going to get my shop manuals out and make sure I understand what old fluff was talking about. Got to find the chapter on the "secret file" old fluff mentioned.

1911Tuner
December 26, 2003, 10:28 PM
I don't know who Old Fuff is, but I have a feeling that his real name would
be familiar to us. I also think his warnings come from the same place as mine...A junk parts drawer full of sears, hammers and disconnectors and
many hours spent straightening out trigger jobs that went wrong. If you
have never had a surprise full-auto experience with a 38-ounce, 45
caliber pistol, it's hard put it into words, and until you've seen someone
hurt by the same, it's even harder to understand why some pistolsmiths
have the hair stand up on the backs of their necks whenever they hear
of a kitchen table trigger job. Not that it can't be done...It can, if the
job is done with the right equipment and a good measure of caution and
patience. It's just that he and I have seen the results of too many that
are dangerous.

The one thing to keep in mind is that, even with a perfect trigger job,
things wear and things change if the pistol is used...and that after a
few thousand rounds have gone downrange, it's not the same as it
was when it was fresh. Springs weaken. Engagement surfaces get
polished and worn. Steel fatigues, and cracks or chips.

When hammer hooks are cut shorter and the sear angle is altered, the
buffer that John Browning built into the trigger group that allows for wear
is much narrower, making periodic examination critical. Maintenance is
more crucial than with a stock trigger group. Any sudden change in trigger "feel" is a red flag. Fuff is all too aware of this, and I think that he
is more concerned with our continued health and well-being than anything
else.

Be careful!

Tuner

romulus
December 26, 2003, 10:41 PM
I just wanted to polish sear and hammer hooks without altering geometry or dimensions...I thought a white ceramic stone, approriate jigs, etc. would be what I needed. On the stock parts, btw. I thought a ceramic stone would not remove metal but only polish (meaning the amount of metal removed would be infinitesimal...) Would you kindly advise?

BTW, I don't recall having seen anyone answer Old Fuff as Old Fuff, it seems it's always Old Fluff :p It's Old FUFF!!!

Old Fuff
December 26, 2003, 11:57 PM
Bigjim:

There is nothing “secret” about the file I mentioned. The day hasn’t come that I won’t explain in detail the circumstances and facts about any tool or other equipment I mention, and where it (they) can be obtained.

You will find the file in Brownell’s catalog (www.brownells.com). It is a square file with one or two safe edges. One should never try and adjust or smooth the face of the hammer hooks with a stone because a stone will leave a rounded corner at the bottom of the hooks where the correct file will not. The safe edge prevents the file from making the hooks deeper.

While you are at it, notice the many other tools, jigs, fixtures and gages that Brownells’ offer, and keep in mind that if you have questions they maintain an excellent technical staff who will provide expertise that’s only a phone call away.

Tunner is right. Neither of us can supervise nor observe what you or anyone else on this forum does. We can offer advice but have no way of telling if it is understood or used. And yes, I would rather a novice has the work done by a professional rather then hurt themselves or someone else. I am pretty sure that if someone who was close to you (or for that matter, yourself) became sick or was injured you would want them to have the services of a medical doctor rather then someone who practiced medicine without any particular qualifications. I think your guns deserve equal consideration.

1911Tuner
December 27, 2003, 12:01 AM
Dang...So it is! Can't believe my eyes have mislead me for this long,
especially seein' as how I really like the guy. :uhoh: :o

My apologies Fuff...Hope ya understand. Well..I've been called Turner,
so I guess it happens to us all .:rolleyes:

Ayway, since I'm not a trigger man, I can't really advise you on the stones
except to say that there are white, brown, and black. White ceramics
would do for a light clean-up, and progress to black if you want smoother
surfaces. I get the hooks square, and hit'em with a square file made
with two protected sides to get both on the sear...then a few light strokes with a white ceramic to clean up any rough edges left by the file, put
a few drops of oil on the whole shebang, and boost the hammer a few times to settle it all in and go. I like .023-.025 hammer hooks and a
5-pound break. I can live quite well with 6, as long as it's clean. If I
bend a sear spring, I bend the left leg TOWARD the sear. I Use 23#
mainsprings and will tweak the center leg of the sear spring only enough to get the pull to 6 pounds. If it winds up at 5, so much the better.
Bend that left leg too much, and the sear may not reset to the bottom of the hooks. Bend the center leg, and the disconnector won't reset reliably.
Hammer falls to half-cock.

This matter of sub 4-pound triggers is an area that I don't address, and
until you actually feel an honest-to-God 3.5-pound trigger, you can't
appreciate how really light it is. A clean 5 or 5.5 pound trigger is marvelous,
and anything lighter is, IMHO, courting disaster on a carry gun.

Polishing things other than the sear's primary angle helps a lot. The face of
the disconnector and trigger stirrup...The sides of the trigger bow...The
angled side of the disconnector where the sear spring rides...The tops of the sear spring legs at a slight angle... A light escape angle on the sear...All these things add up, and you can get that crisp trigger without taking a chance on having a dangerous trigger.

Be well, and be careful now...Hear?

Tuner

1911Tuner
December 27, 2003, 12:05 AM
LMAO...Okay...I had it comin'. I went back and edited out the "L".
Fuff it is!

sal-OOT!:cool:

Tunner/Turner/Tuner...Take yer pick. I'll answer to any of'em.

bigjim
December 27, 2003, 11:08 AM
Guys I am going to start a new thead with questions these posts are bring to my mind. I am going to post some very close up shots of trigger parts and complete with Arrows and numbers to make it easy to talk about.

Then we can have a chat about proper procedures and tools. We will make it at the begining that what we are talking about will be a SAFE trigger for carry that will last.

I am hoping 1911tuner and old fuff will continue to contribute but would welcome any other input from experianced trigger guys. I am going shooting this morning so I will post some later. Does this sound like fun or what?

I will name the thread the 1911 carry trigger clinic.

romulus
December 27, 2003, 12:48 PM
Will be there, thanks...

bigjim
December 27, 2003, 07:04 PM
Just back from the range:

The trigger pull seems very stable and has not changed after 300 rounds this am.

I shot 50% better groups, some of that is getting used to the gun, but much of it is because the trigger breaks so cleanly now. The trigger before this work was so bad it was damn near impossible to shoot a group!

Jim

bigjim
December 28, 2003, 12:26 PM
BTT

4 eyed six shooter
December 29, 2003, 06:15 AM
Speaking of jigs, I like the jig made by Ron Power the best. Anyone else have one that they like better?
John K

bigjim
December 29, 2003, 09:29 AM
Great question 4 eye!

Lets talk tools! I know we can do better than my 20 dollar vise and hard arkansaw wet stone.

Jigs jigs? We really need some stinking jigs!

and the Brownells parts numbers are.......?

45auto
December 30, 2003, 09:57 AM
How does anyone feel about the "kits" sold by Nowlin, C&S for trigger jobs, i.e. all preset replacement parts?

I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that they can produce square, true parts that mate well together!!

They are not cheap and my concern has been that after installing a set, I might still have one side of the sear 'doing most of the work' like I have now due to frame, pin variances, etc. That may not be the reason for my sear/hammer issue, but just for example.

I said "not cheap", but they would be a bargin if you had to send your gun through the mail and pay for a "premium" trigger upgrade. Not to mention the time involved in getting work done.

But, I've experienced a trigger problem done by a non professional and it wasn't pretty. Following safe loading procedures really does work. :D

1911Tuner
December 30, 2003, 01:02 PM
45Auto asked:

How does anyone feel about the "kits" sold by Nowlin, C&S for trigger jobs, i.e. all preset replacement parts?
-------------------------------------
Some of them work very well in some guns, not as well in others, and
not at all in a few. This brings us to the second question:


I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that they can produce square, true parts that mate well together!!
------------------------------------

Yes they can. CNC machinery has allowed the machinists and toolmakers to hold closer tolerances much easier than when I did my apprenticeship.
There are a few flies in the ointment, though.

1...Are the locations of the sear and hammer pin in-spec?
2...If they are, are they on one end of tolerance or the other? A few
thousandths of an inch can make a difference if the parts in the kit are
also on either end. Tolerances stack up. They can work for us or against
us.

3...Are the holes drilled straight, or are they slightly out of print on the
alignment? If they aren't dead straight, the squareness of the hammer hooks and/or the sear primary angle is for naught if the pin that they
ride on is set at an angle.

On occasion,I have installed a sear, hammer and disconnector that weren't advertised as being a "Matched, Drop-In" kit, and everything fell into place. I've also used the same parts from the same manufacturer in a different pistol that required adjustment. It's a crap shoot. Any part that is advertised as a drop-in may very well do just that, but it's best not to count on it. Even at best, the trigger group won't be quite as good as
a skillfully fitted set.

Of all the ones that I'm aware of, the one that Dane Burns sells has had
more good reports than any of the others., though I've never used any of them. Just going on what I hear through the grapevine.

Cheers!
Tuner

45auto
December 30, 2003, 04:26 PM
Okay,
Thanks for the info Tuner.

Happy New Year

zahc
January 22, 2004, 09:07 PM
What is boosting a trigger?

1911Tuner
January 23, 2004, 05:12 AM
zahc asked:

What is boosting a trigger?


Howdy zahc. Boosting a hammer is simple, and often makes a big difference in the "feel" of the trigger, if not a difference in the letoff.

Cock the hammer and dribble a few drops of oil between the curved part
of the hammer and frame. Dry-fire it a few times to distribute the oil into
the sear and hammer hooks.

Use the tip of a small screwdriver between the back of the hammer and the top of the grip safety to lever the hammer forward lightly while you
pull the trigger. Pull the trigger until the hammer falls. If the trigger is
very hard to pull, you're using too much force on the screwdriver. Let off
the pressure slowly until the hammer will fall. Repeat this 5-6 times.
The trigger should feel smoother, and probably a bit lighter. Depending
on how bad the trigger was to begin with, it can make a lot of difference.

One thing to keep in mind is that...if the trigger is noticeably harder to
pull with light boosting, it's a sign that both hammer hooks aren't bearing
evenly on the sear...and probably only one hook is holding the hammer in
full cock. Not really a major issue, though. Very few production pistols
DO have a hammer/sear fit that is even, and go through their whole
lives in that condition. It's just not conducive to a good, crisp trigger.
Easy for a pistolsmith to correct, though...and if all you want is to get
both hooks on the sear, he can probably do it while you wait unless he's
badly backlogged. If you opt for a complete trigger job, he may want to
replace the hammer, sear, and disconnect as a unit as opposed to using yours. Some are funny about trigger groups. At the very least, he will
probably want to clean up the sear primary angle a little.

Do yourself a favor, and tell him NOT to take the trigger below 5 pounds.
It's a matter of preference, but I get nervous whenever I encounter any
autopistol with a single-action trigger below that level...and am happier with 6. Just my opinion here.

Luck to ya!

Tuner

bigjim
January 23, 2004, 09:10 AM
Tunner Said:

Easy for a pistol smith to correct, though...and if all you want is to get
both hooks on the sear, he can probably do it while you wait unless he's
badly backlogged.
***********************************

HA! HA! The fact that this is totally NOT true is what prompted this entire line of 1911 clinic threads. Tunner you are a throw back to another time with different sensibilities. Your right in that they COULD do it while you wait. But they wont. What they will do is take your gun in for six months, they not work on it at all until you are forced to act like an ???????. Then they get pissy and tell you about all the other things that must be done in order for your trigger to ever work again. Never mind that it worked for tens of thousands of rounds before you dropped it off.

Welcome to hell Tunner pull up a chair and stay a while. :)

1911Tuner
January 23, 2004, 09:14 AM
ROFLMAO bigjim...:D

*whap whap* Thanks for the reality check...

Well,anyway....I used to do it whilethey waited.:rolleyes:

Cheers!
Tuner

bigjim
January 23, 2004, 10:20 AM
Tunner,

I would gladly pay you to work on my gun. But I would much rather pay you 20 times as much to sit with me and teach me how to do it myself.

I may pick up my stuff and move one of these days. You may get a knock on your door. :)

1911Tuner
January 23, 2004, 10:30 AM
bigjim said:

You may get a knock on your door.

Well, come on and set a spell. We'll leave the light on for ya.
Hope ya like Colliedogs and turbo coffee.:cool:

gyp_c2
April 11, 2004, 07:41 PM
Who exactly did you take guns to, that made you talk this way about gunsmiths?

1911Tuner
April 11, 2004, 07:51 PM
Howdy gyp, and welcome to THR...

Uh...Could ya be a little more specific as to whom your question is directed?
I'm a mite confused...:scrutiny: :confused:

Cheers!

Tuner

bigjim
April 11, 2004, 08:26 PM
Prolly me Tuner. No harm done. I agree the first post was a bit angry in tone. I wAS mad at SEVERAL gunsmiths and their general inability to stick to any reasonable time frame.

Since my first post I have learned a lot.

1. There is much more to this Gunsmithing than I had known.
2. There are many things outside of a gunsmiths control that may
make him break commitments for delivery dates.
3. They are probably worth what they charge ( most of the time)

Still many Smiths don't seem to feel the need for good communication with the customer and this is at the heart of the problem.

When it seems the projected date for a gun being finished is not going to work out it is not to much to ask that the call the customer and tell them exactly why.

If some one has my gun and a large deposit and months go by after the gun should have been finished and I have heard NOTHING that is a problem.

GUARD DOG
December 31, 2008, 08:59 PM
I tried a Cylinder & Slide match hammer, sear & disconnector(Brownells, $111), in my Springfield Armory Trophy Match. All the parts looked really good with a rockwell hardness of 52, and made from bar stock, not MIM. Except for a few file strokes on the existing safety they were truly drop in parts. 3.5# on my trigger scale with a clean break.

"Foolproof machinery does not allow for the ingenuity of fools."

rcmodel
December 31, 2008, 09:16 PM
Smiths don't seem to feel the need for good communication with the customer and this is at the heart of the problem.Fact of life.

A good gunsmith needs all his available time to work on guns, just to keep up with his back-log.

If you want more talk, a lesser smith might have more time to talk to you.

rcmodel

orionengnr
January 2, 2009, 07:51 PM
Ah yes, post #42 is yet another first post by a new member that dredges up a 4+ year old thread...

I am seeing this so often lately that it is cliche.

If you are smart enough to use search to find the answer to your question, why can you not grasp the fact that others are as well?

And if they aren't, what makes you think you need to register to post to a 4+ year old thread?

krs
January 3, 2009, 01:48 PM
LOL! What's that about good communications, RCModel?


Thing is that until I stopped to read orion's post I was about to say that in my experience gunsmiths tend to reticence - i.e., they don't talk much, and when you find one that does (thinking of a particularly long backlog of work that nearly equals the length of wordy blogging the fellow does) talk too much you may be even more frustrated by the time it takes to obtain completed work from him.

GUARD DOG
January 7, 2009, 06:42 PM
ORIONENGNR, I did not see this information anywhere in the thread so I thought that some of the members might be interested.
You have given me a new goal; to be as smart as you think you are.

A.V.Gregory
April 15, 2009, 02:28 PM
1911 Tuner
Installed new hammer ,sear,and disconnector along with sear spring and beaver tail grip safety. Function is normal except the hammer will fall from half cock. Replaced disconnector with original disconnector,now function is O.K. is disconnector too long ,too short or what the heck is wrong?

krs
April 15, 2009, 03:15 PM
brain death.

ruffseas
November 3, 2009, 11:08 PM
All I want to do is thank both 1911 Tuner and Old Fuff for giving me the courage to rectify a very ragged trigger pull on my factory series 80 Colt 1911. Its about six years old and had several thousand rounds through it and the trigger pull was still pretty rough. Lots of creep and pretty gritty. Seemed variable too.

1911 Tuner gave me the courage to tackle the chore because of his clear concise instruction.

Old Fuff gave me the restraint necessary to stick to Tuners tips and not stray into the while I'm polishin that, I might as well polish, and hone, and stone these other parts too territory.

A bit of judicious polishing, Tuners Slurry, and umpteen dry fires, a few light boosts to top it off has netted me a a very fine trigger pull.

These gents know what they are talkin about!

Thank You.

ruffseas
November 3, 2009, 11:21 PM
Orinonengnr,

Good threads never die.

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