.204 vs. 22-250 vs. 220 swift


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rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 05:03 PM
ive been looking rifle calibars and rifles and ive kinda got it down two two calibars .204 and the 22-250 (220 swift is just u think of it it think it is the greatest varmint round that was ever made but the ammo is hard to find and rare that is why i like the 22-250) but mainly i want the opinion on the other 2 the reason i picked these two is because i want something fairly light yet want something that could stop a cyoyte in it tracks at 300 yards i also want somthing very fast and amazingly accurate BUT i also need something thats not going to insanly big, big as in .270
P.S. i HATE .223s and .308s and for the .223 fans it was UNWANTED by the army develeped by the army then completly dissed so there!:neener:

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Jon_Snow
December 8, 2010, 05:37 PM
BUT i also need something thats not going to blow up a wabit

If this is true then I can tell you for a fact that .204 isn't for you. I love that caliber, but it turns small varmints inside out. I'd imagine that the 22-250 will do the same, but I have no personal experience there.

bobleeswagger
December 8, 2010, 06:29 PM
You're going to need something that's pretty heavily constructed to make sure you're not blowing up small game like rabbits. IN GENERAL, a .204 and a .22-250 will be firing relatively thinly jacketed bullets. The .204 doesn't have as many options for more heavily constructed bullets as the .22 cal options do, but should still be more than enough coyote medicine at 300. I have a CZ 527 Varmint in .204 that's BAD news for anything yotie sized or smaller.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 06:33 PM
the .204 isnt going to take down a deer tho that is wat i term small personally id like to see wat would be better in certain guns to a 22-250 is going to have more of punch but a .204 is going to be faster and (i think more accurite)

rcmodel
December 8, 2010, 06:41 PM
Dude, you aren't making a whole lot of sense so far.

Any of the three calibers mentioned will blow a rabbit into a fine pink mist at 300 yards.
3,800 - 4,100 FPS does that, regardless of the bullet selection.

As for deer?
Get a deer rifle.
They ain't that either.

As for the .308 and .223?
What are you trying to say?
I got lost on the "REGECTED" word you used!

rc

matrem
December 8, 2010, 06:48 PM
this sould get some good reactions

This IS The High Road, so I'll just suggest reading post # 5 twice.

Bill B.
December 8, 2010, 06:49 PM
i also want somthing very fast and amazingly accurrite BUT i also need something thats not going to blow up a wabit.

If you have fast it will blow up your rabbit and that goes for all 3 rounds regardless of the bullet. All are amazingly accurate.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 06:56 PM
sorry let me refrase that i need some thing that isnt going to be like a 300 h&h mag on a coon and somthing that could possibly drop a deer im open to other calibers aslong as its not a .223 or a .308 specs are not good sorry:evil:

Geno
December 8, 2010, 07:00 PM
Per the OP's redirect:

Look to a .243 Win, or a .260 Rem. They shoot extremely flat with light bullets, and hit hard with medium to heavy bullets.

Geno

PT1911
December 8, 2010, 07:01 PM
I got lost on the "REGECTED" word you used!

Got lost on that whole sentence...

Ummm, anything in that "family" is going to absolutely destroy small game...

I say get yourself a 222rem and call it a day...:neener:

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 07:08 PM
sorry about the spelling yes the sentence was messed up i ment to say rejected.
Oh also i forgot to say that i need somthing with fairly cheap ammo.

Bill B.
December 8, 2010, 07:10 PM
im open to other calibers aslong as its not a .223 or a .308 specs

Get 2 rifles: a .22 LR & a .257 Roberts :rolleyes::D

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 07:15 PM
the only problem is i can only spend about $300 on a rifle $450 max

PT1911
December 8, 2010, 07:17 PM
Oh also i forgot to say that i need somthing with fairly cheap ammo.

Cheap ammo= nothing you have mentioned...

For cheap ammo, you need something military surplus or you need to reload.

I suggest you reconsider the .223/5.56 as it has "good" performance out to 300 yds and, though hard on varmints, it wont "mist" them.

If you cut your range to 150-200 yds, the .22 mag and 17HMR come to mind and are fairly cheap in the grand scheme of things...

For my newest varmint gun/ range toy is a cz 452 in 17 machII... even with it i will need to stick to head shots if I plan to use the rabbits and squirrels.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 07:20 PM
cheap as in $10 to $20 a box

PT1911
December 8, 2010, 07:24 PM
cheap as in $10 to $20 a box

factory produced 204, 22-250, 220 swift...etc, will run you more along the lines of 25-35, even .223 in soft points runs pretty close to $30 per box nowadays..

Rimfires may not be on your radar, but perhaps they should be.

The only way you will get affordable ammunition in your stated cartridges is to reload... AND then, you can load them down, i suppose, to gain your wanted affect on those pesky wabbits.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 07:29 PM
well they are but as a second gun i need somthing that i can be accurate at like 300 yds but not to big like a .243. A .243 is a great round tho

Harley Quinn
December 8, 2010, 08:04 PM
Not familiar with the .204 other than read about them...I know many that have used the .220 swift for deer:what:...Similar with the 22-250:eek:

So before any go insane and say they would never do it, just wanted to say many have ;)

The selection of bullet is important and handloading is the only way you get the best use out of the ones you have chosen...

I don't feel you have to be ashamed of using them in your above mentioned items...

But I would opt for a 6mm cal for deer to be honest...The ones using 220 and 22-250, were excellent shots and men who did not shot unless they had the shot they wanted...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=918837

Same way with rabbits shoot them w/^^^ and see if you can live with the outcome:D

Offfhand
December 8, 2010, 08:10 PM
Quoted from OP:

"the only problem is i can only spend about $300 on a rifle $450 max"

Why did you bother asking?
__________________

PT1911
December 8, 2010, 08:19 PM
I say you would be best served with the .223, but since that is not an option, I suggest you go with the 22-250 as it seems that more ammo is available cheaper if you look for it.. It is also a big favorite of a friend... MAYBE that is why I place it second. As to what rifles to look for... that may have to be your first course of action... FInd a rifle in your budget and then choose the cartridge based on what the manufacturer offers. I will say that rifles that are capable of somewhat long range accuracy and available in your stated cartridges are typically not very cheap. You will probably be restricted to savage/marlin offerings.. Nothing wrong with them, just giving you a place to start.

If you can up the budget a bit the cz 527 in 204 would be sweet....

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 08:44 PM
Quoted from OP:

"the only problem is i can only spend about $300 on a rifle $450 max"

Why did you bother asking?
__________________
wadda mean

joed
December 8, 2010, 08:51 PM
factory produced 204, 22-250, 220 swift...etc, will run you more along the lines of 25-35, even .223 in soft points runs pretty close to $30 per box nowadays..

Boy did I get a bargain. Just bought my first 2 boxes of factory ammo in 8 years. Bought 2 boxes of Winchester 55 gr .22-250 at $20 a box. I was somewhat shocked but needed the ammo.

I remember when I bought a .223 about 8 years ago. At the time I bought 4 boxes of Federal bulk pack 50 gr hps. The price was pretty cheap for 800 rounds. I've since sold the rifle but I'm holding on to the ammo just in case I end up with another .223.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 09:06 PM
man u guys are getting ripped off i can get .204 hornaday ammo for 15 and 22-250 rem ammo for 13!!
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/87784-5.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&catid=513

wyocarp
December 8, 2010, 09:19 PM
the .204 isnt going to take down a deer

I beg to differ. The 204 knocks down a deer quite well. I didn't read what the op was wanting to do with the rabbits, but if you shoot them in the head, it will take the head off leaving the rest of the rabbit.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 10:02 PM
Really:D how many yards and how many grain:confused:

Bill B.
December 8, 2010, 10:13 PM
man u guys are getting ripped off i can get .204 hornaday ammo for 15 and 22-250 rem ammo for 13!!

Really? Cheapest 22-250 is $13.82 Shipping is $12.72 Plus they charge a $2.95 handling charge per order. Increase the order to 5 boxes and shipping is $14.19. It just as cheap for most of us to get our ammo at Wal Mart if they have what we are looking for IMO.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 10:28 PM
where do u see that???

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 10:44 PM
hi jake

Jake1996
December 8, 2010, 10:47 PM
OK so im new but i have spent alot of time on these calibers and i would conclude the swift is by far superior.

Jake1996
December 8, 2010, 10:50 PM
the reason is it is a lot faster and flatter shooting yeah i know the line oh the 22-250 will do anything the swift will do but it isnt any nicer to barrels sometimes harder because of its short neck.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 10:50 PM
yeah but the .204 is right on its heels

twofifty
December 8, 2010, 10:57 PM
I am taking notes...this is fascinating.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 11:05 PM
whats fascinating??

Jake1996
December 8, 2010, 11:08 PM
the 204 is true on its heels but it doesnt hit as hard and the magnificent swift far surpasses it in handloads.

rhino1957
December 8, 2010, 11:20 PM
true BUT its much more common taking NOTHING away from the swift but the rounds are cheaper can drill smaller holes you can find FAR more rifles for it. and as far as handloading you probably dont even handload so in MY case it makes far more sence to get a .204 im going to close in saing 220 swift is an AMAZING round and i think its one of if not the best varmit round ever made but.
A. its to pricey to buy the ammo
2. the ammo is rare
and D. it almost immpossible to find rifles (that are any good) chambered in it!!!

Jake1996
December 8, 2010, 11:26 PM
ammo isnt much more on ablesammo than the 204s or 22-250s

courtgreene
December 9, 2010, 12:15 AM
Personally, I am hoping maybe you just don't shoulder a firearm for a while. Not being able to spell is a red flag. starting the post intentionally wanting to antagonize/anger people, well that does not seem like something that bodes well for peaceful weapon use. What else, oh, unrealistic expectations. I know, second amendment, never would I deny someone a right or even suggest it... but seriously, how about some restraint for the safety of self and others?

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 12:46 AM
oh yah i forgot to mentio the 204 doesnt drill smaller holes

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 12:47 AM
sorry i misspelled mention

Kachok
December 9, 2010, 03:11 AM
What is with all the flaming 308 and 223 haters tonight? Both of these are very effective bad guy killers, and there are swarms of dead bad guys that would vouch for that if they could speak. Do they burn up the lower atmosphere with 4,500+fps speeds.......No, but they shoot flat and accurate, and guess what they KILL @$#* very very dead, so the next person that wants to talk about how useless they are should really examine their real world track record. I served in our armed forces so I think I might know better then who ever wrote whatever online nonsence you are getting this from.

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 03:30 AM
That's lovely they may be great combat calibers but they're not so great for hunting

Kachok
December 9, 2010, 03:35 AM
?????? Not great for hunting????? Well someone should have told my 308 YEARS ago that it was not great for hunting. Sure fooled all those deer and hogs. Oh and someone let Chuck Hawks know that he needs to take both of them off his top 12 hunting calibers of all time list, Jake says they don't belong there. ROTFLMAO :neener:

bubbinator
December 9, 2010, 04:00 AM
I am surprised with all these posts that you haven't learned that reloading will #1-save you money; #2- give you better ammo (see # 1), and expand your overall 2nd Amendment experince-you can't do this a lot anywhere else in the world! As to facts-I have 0 experince w/ 204. Do have experience w/ .221/.222/223/22-250/220. My bragging shot is on a crow sitting in a clearcut tree top @ a ranged 485 yds hit w/ a .220 Swift loaded w/ Sieera 52gr. BTHP loaded w/ IMR 4064 (Speer #8 Manual) that expoded into 5-6 pieces. 204 reloads too!

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 04:13 AM
Yeah that's right if on hawks list it should be at the bottom cause it isn't great for elk and over

Kachok
December 9, 2010, 04:27 AM
Yes Jake we never figured out how to kill those pesky elk before the super duper ultra mags of doom came out. We just thought we were killing them with our puney 308s and 30-30s. They were really laughing themselves to death at our petty attempts to penatrate their bulletproof hide......ROTFLMAO. Have you ever actualy been hunting? The puney 30-30 has taken more bull elk then any magnum, and even better the tiny 119 year old 6.5x55 SE is STILL the elk rifle of choice throughout most of Europe. If you don't think the 308 can still kill elk/moose/bear like it did 40 years ago then you have been reading too many gun magazines kid.

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 04:29 AM
Sure it can kill elk and that other stuff but there are better rounds like the 300 Winchester and that's ignorant using 30-30 for elk yah it can do it but there are better choices.

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 04:35 AM
I think like this one small flinch can ruin the perfect shot so I would use something larger but for smaller elk the 30-30 s fine as is the 308

Kachok
December 9, 2010, 04:37 AM
Jake there are plenty of people that have been hunting MUCH longer then both of us put together that swear by their 30-30. It kills deer and elk very quickly in the hands of an experenced hunter, me personaly I would take somthing more powerful, but who am I, and who are you to tell them that their choice in caliber is ignorant? You just cannot argue with a hundred + years of results. BTW some of the largest elk I have ever seen were taken with a 30-30, and a 308 is much more powerful then that.

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 04:39 AM
I suppose but that would make me nervous

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 04:42 AM
It's like this though aren't there minimum laws on calibers for some states

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 04:44 AM
And bud I don't read gun magazines as much as I wish I had a subscription to a couple I use other resources

Kachok
December 9, 2010, 04:54 AM
Yes most states do have a min cal law, but a 170gr 30-30 is legal in every state that allows rifles. .27 cal with 140gr bullets is the most strict elk rifle law that I know of.

Jake1996
December 9, 2010, 05:00 AM
Ok but isn't the best load for the 30-30 a 160 grain bullet

Kachok
December 9, 2010, 05:06 AM
The larger the game the heavier the bullet you need. 150s are great for small deer, 170s are for larger thicker bodied game. Heavier bullets for the caliber will penatrate deeper which you need on elk sized game.

Harley Quinn
December 9, 2010, 12:31 PM
45 grain, Barnes solids are good for rabbits, deer, yotes at 3500 fps which is not a barrel burner either...

No loading data specific for it in link, but you get the idea, it is about 10% less than listed, good starting point as most reloaders will tell you ;)

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=22-250&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder

Keeping the OP on topic :what::D

PT1911
December 9, 2010, 07:08 PM
223 match ammunition through a quality rifle being shot by someone knowledgeable in shooting will perform just as well or better than most any cartridge you can compare it too depending on the comparison... For Target duty, to a range of say, 300yds, you wont be able to tell the difference between 223 and 22-250/220 swift groups given calm conditions... The same can be said of varmint hunting... you will notice no difference... Now, stretch that range a bit and the others start to come into their own...

Personally, i have never stepped up my shooting to ranges beyond that and if i decided to I would want a heavier bullet for the better downrange performance.

There is more to comparing cartridges that comparing energies and trajectories. Simply because x cartridge has less drop at some stated range than cartridge y does not make it a better cartridge for every purpose.. By that logic, the only cartridge out there worth having would be the 50 bmg for the greatest combination of long range performance and energy delivered to the target, but then you have to toss in the 416 Barrett because it is flatter shooting... does that make it a better cartridge? some would say, but you cannot look at cartridges through blinders... recoil, range, weapon platform, ammunition cost, ammunition availability...etc

A 22lr will kill every squirrel within 75 yds, just because a 223 is flatter shooting and hits harder does that make it a better squirrel gun inside 100yds?

A 223 will punch bulls eyes and kill coyotes admirably out to 300 yds... there would be no measurable difference in its affect on a target or varmint (assuming a well placed shot) than it and a 22-250/308/30-06/7mm/or whatever else you want to insert here.. a hole is a hole and dead is dead.. know the limitations of your cartridge and the extent of your shooting and you wont be disappointed...

A .223 sucks as a 1000 yd gun, but it was never meant as such...

The point is, every cartridge has its limitations. It is understanding those limitations and your own as well as applying that understanding to your shooting that ultimately makes a well versed rifleman.

rhino1957
December 9, 2010, 07:57 PM
223 match ammunition through a quality rifle being shot by someone knowledgeable in shooting will perform just as well or better than most any cartridge you can compare it too depending on the comparison... For Target duty, to a range of say, 300yds, you wont be able to tell the difference between 223 and 22-250/220 swift groups given calm conditions... The same can be said of varmint hunting... you will notice no difference... Now, stretch that range a bit and the others start to come into their own...

Personally, i have never stepped up my shooting to ranges beyond that and if i decided to I would want a heavier bullet for the better downrange performance.

There is more to comparing cartridges that comparing energies and trajectories. Simply because x cartridge has less drop at some stated range than cartridge y does not make it a better cartridge for every purpose.. By that logic, the only cartridge out there worth having would be the 50 bmg for the greatest combination of long range performance and energy delivered to the target, but then you have to toss in the 416 Barrett because it is flatter shooting... does that make it a better cartridge? some would say, but you cannot look at cartridges through blinders... recoil, range, weapon platform, ammunition cost, ammunition availability...etc

A 22lr will kill every squirrel within 75 yds, just because a 223 is flatter shooting and hits harder does that make it a better squirrel gun inside 100yds?

A 223 will punch bulls eyes and kill coyotes admirably out to 300 yds... there would be no measurable difference in its affect on a target or varmint (assuming a well placed shot) than it and a 22-250/308/30-06/7mm/or whatever else you want to insert here.. a hole is a hole and dead is dead.. know the limitations of your cartridge and the extent of your shooting and you wont be disappointed...

A .223 sucks as a 1000 yd gun, but it was never meant as such...

The point is, every cartridge has its limitations. It is understanding those limitations and your own as well as applying that understanding to your shooting that ultimately makes a well versed rifleman.
thanks

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