FL Concealed and Open Carry Reform - Senate Bill 234 Filed Today


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StogieC
December 10, 2010, 09:50 PM
URGENT! Concealed and Open Carry Reform - Senate Bill 234 Filed Today


Licensed Open Carry
Department of Agriculture may take Fingerprints for CWFL Application
Licensed College Campus Carry
Vehicle Carry and Storage Legal for Licensees
Firearms (handguns & long guns) Purchase Legal in All States


Please call your State Senator and ask them to co-sponsor SB-234!

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Packman
December 10, 2010, 10:59 PM
Sounds cool, but can you provide a citation? Everything I'm finding regarding Florida Senate Bill 234 is related to an excise tax on short sales. I can't see any mention of firearms or concealed weapons related to that document.

calvin13
December 10, 2010, 11:08 PM
http://flhouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=44867&SessionId=66

StogieC
December 10, 2010, 11:09 PM
http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Tab=session&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&BillNum=0234&Chamber=Senate&Year=2011

RevolvingGarbage
December 10, 2010, 11:19 PM
Whats the "Vehicle carry and storage legal for licensees." thing about?

You can already do both with a CWFL, and indeed transport a loaded handgun without one.

StogieC
December 10, 2010, 11:24 PM
Actually, the current "guns in parking lots" law only applies to CWFL licensees who are employees at their own place of work.

The new language will allow you to have your gun in your car in any parking lot.

RevolvingGarbage
December 10, 2010, 11:34 PM
Actually, the current "guns in parking lots" law only applies to CWFL licensees who are employees at their own place of work.

The new language will allow you to have your gun in your car in any parking lot.
That's not true at all, anyone over 18 years of age who isn't restricted from owning a firearm may have a loaded pistol in their car "securely incased" for defense (in a glovebox, a bag, or box of some sort, locked or unlocked), no matter where you are. The newer law passed a couple of years ago basically told employers they weren't allowed to prevent employees from doing so, or punish them for it.

If this new law is going to make it so ONLY CWFL holders can have a gun in their gloveboxes, then I would say that's a major step backwards.

What exactly is this bill really going to do? I cant find a detailed description anywhere.

StogieC
December 10, 2010, 11:52 PM
Please read this link:
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/Americas/July-08/Judge-Upholds-Florida-s--Take-Your-Gun-to-Work--Law.html

The new bill improves the situation greatly.

RevolvingGarbage
December 11, 2010, 12:10 AM
That link is about the law passed a few years ago, which is the one I talked about in my last post. If you mean this new bill is going to improve upon that, please explain why and how, that's what I want to know.

StogieC
December 28, 2010, 01:55 PM
The bill passed in 2008 only applies to licensees who store a firearm in their car at work. The new bill will allow licensees to store a firearm in your car anywhere you can park it.

The "securely encased" provision that lets you have a firearm in your glove box does not protect you from a private property owner who would ban you from parking in their lot because you have a gun in the car. The new bill expands the protections of the 2008 law.

RevolvingGarbage
December 28, 2010, 02:09 PM
How does the current law not protect you from that? Your saying if you park in the Ikea parking lot they can search your car and if they find a firearm you can be charged with some kind of crime?

oneounceload
December 28, 2010, 02:17 PM
The new bill will allow licensees to store a firearm in your car anywhere you can park it.

A non CCW person can so that anyway - I don't see any advantage - your car is covered under the Castle Doctrine legislation previously passed

StogieC
December 28, 2010, 02:26 PM
There is currently nothing to stop anyone from asking if you have a gun in your car and trespassing you from their property unless you are an employee.

In one case, a father buried his son, who was killed in a car accident, in a local cemetery in 2008. The cemetery rules, which were revised in 2009, now prohibit firearms in the cemetery. The father has a carry license and always keeps a gun in his vehicle for protection. He is now afraid that he won’t be able to visit his son's grave without going home to remove his gun from his car. This is totally unacceptable and wrong.

The Florida Chamber SUED to prevent workers from exercising their constitutional rights -- and LOST. The Court ruled that workers with licenses to carry concealed firearms can not be prohibited from having firearms in their vehicles in parking lots at work.

The amendment clarifies that he can, in fact, have his gun in his car at the cemetery.

This amendment is about protecting the rights of customers and guests. With today's economic problems, businesses should focus on creating jobs instead of alienating their customers and employees by trying to restrict their constitutional rights.

The Amendment that Mrs. Hammer was referring to is now part of SB-234.

StogieC
December 28, 2010, 02:39 PM
A non CCW person can so that anyway - I don't see any advantage - your car is covered under the Castle Doctrine legislation previously passed
Actually, that is a common misconception that the courts have repeatedly rejected. That's also the reason for this provision of the bill.

The link below has the FSU Law Review on the issue and all relevant links and citations.
http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/downloads/364/beville.pdf

oneounceload
December 28, 2010, 05:01 PM
That article is about guns at work.............

I can have a gun in my car without a CCW, so...........??????? I don't get the point?

StogieC
December 29, 2010, 09:14 AM
Perhaps I am not explaining the issue and the proposed law well enough.
Just because it is legal for you to have in your car doesn't give you the right to park on private property with it in your car over the objections of the property owner.

Just because you can have a gun in your car doesn't protect you from a private property owner baring you from parking your car on their property because you have a gun in the car.

Castle doctrine has absolutely nothing to do with where you are allowed to park your car or what can be in your car when you are on someone else's property.

One of the provisions of SB-234 fixes that to prohibit business owners, or anyone else, from preventing customers from parking in their lot because you have, or they suspect that you have, a gun in the car.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce is fighting this again just like they did in 2008 when you got to start parking at work without fear of loosing your job because of the pistol in your glove box.

StogieC
December 29, 2010, 09:31 AM
That's not true at all, anyone over 18 years of age who isn't restricted from owning a firearm may have a loaded pistol in their car "securely incased" for defense (in a glovebox, a bag, or box of some sort, locked or unlocked), no matter where you are.
Yes, you can have a securely encased gun in your car without a license. That will not change.
That doesn't mean you can park on someone else's property with that gun in your car should the property owner object to it being there. You are incorrect about "no matter where you are". A private property owner can ban you from parking in their lot if they know or suspect that you have a gun in your car.

The newer law passed a couple of years ago basically told employers they weren't allowed to prevent employees from doing so, or punish them for it.

That law applied only to employees with a CWFL. Not to unlicensed persons or customers & guests. The court was very clear on that in 2008 when the FL Chamber of Commerce sued to try to stop the new law.

If this new law is going to make it so ONLY CWFL holders can have a gun in their gloveboxes, then I would say that's a major step backwards.
That is not what this bill does at all!!! Read the bill! :eek:

What exactly is this bill really going to do? I cant find a detailed description anywhere.

Same link as in one of my earlier posts: http://flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Tab=session&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&BillNum=0234&Chamber=Senate&Year=2011
Has the full text of the bill.

Ed N.
January 2, 2011, 08:56 PM
> Just because it is legal for you to have in your car doesn't give you the right
> to park on private property with it in your car over the objections of
> the property owner.


Since the private property owner has no right or means to search my car, I can't see that it really matters. I have done nothing illegal in having a gun in my car regardless of what rule the property owner may have. Only if he somehow becomes aware of it (and I certainly won't tell him), orders me to leave the property, and I refuse, will I then be guilty of armed trespass.

The property owner could post a rule prohibiting me from wearing boxer shorts, but it won't mean much unless I feel like dropping my pants.

We already have enough damn laws without adding meaningless ones.

harmon rabb
January 10, 2011, 06:09 PM
Well, good luck with this bill going anywhere after the Arizona debacle.

Big Mike
January 13, 2011, 07:21 PM
StogieC, do we know if there is there a companion bill in the House? I didn't see one...

StogieC
January 13, 2011, 09:08 PM
Rep Dorworth will be filing the House bill. It should be published very soon.

StogieC
January 13, 2011, 09:10 PM
The list of filed pro-gun bills is here: http://www.floridacarry.org/forums/topic?f=20&p=534

Black Toe Knives
January 13, 2011, 09:22 PM
Well, good luck with this bill going anywhere after the Arizona debacle.
Debacle?

harmon rabb
January 20, 2011, 02:15 PM
Tragedy. Better?

pikid89
January 20, 2011, 02:54 PM
as a Student at UF i sure hope this goes through

Tony_the_tiger
January 20, 2011, 03:51 PM
Stogie, I think you are misinformed regarding Florida law.

Any one who can legally own a firearm can legally have that firearm securely encased, whether locked or unlocked, whether loaded or unloaded, in the vehicle.

That is the law, and I have a copy of it sitting in front of me.

Anything beyond what I have posted above is irrelevant.

StogieC
January 20, 2011, 04:22 PM
The Florida Court of Appeals for the Third District, the NRA, the Florida Legislature, the Florida Carry legal dept. and I will reconsider...

Nope, still a problem.

You are conflating two distinct but related issues.

Yes, you can legally have a firearm in your glovebox under current law.

An operator of a parking lot can prohibit you from parking in their lot and trespass you from the property just because you have a legally possessed firearm stored in your car legally under current law.

SB 234 fixes that for licensees.

Please read the exact language of this part of the bill:
"(b) A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes."

this is MUCH stronger than the current law:
"790.25(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012."

Tony_the_tiger
January 20, 2011, 06:04 PM
I see the difference in wording now.

Hey Stogie, could you post the section about college campus?

Thx, -T

StogieC
January 20, 2011, 06:16 PM
I'll post that as soon as the House version of the bill is published. (soon).

wtjBatman
January 23, 2011, 10:12 AM
Licensed college campus carry? Interesting. We have an open carry law here in MN but all the colleges (of which I am attending two this semester) prohibit carrying on school property. Aside from the parking lot of course.

pikid89
January 23, 2011, 02:21 PM
Limits a prohibition on carrying a concealed weapon or firearm into an elementary or secondary school facility, career center, or college or university facility to include only a public elementary or secondary school facility or administration building, etc.

what does the to include only a public elementary or secondary school facility or administration building, etc mean in layman's terms

AWorthyOpponent
February 7, 2011, 12:27 AM
Limits a prohibition on carrying a concealed weapon or firearm into an elementary or secondary school facility, career center, or college or university facility to include only a public elementary or secondary school facility or administration building, etc.
what does the
to include only a public elementary or secondary school facility or administration building, etc
mean in layman's terms
I assume it means that the current law prohibits carry in elementary or secondary school facilities, career centers, or colleges or university facilities. However the bill would change to only prohibit carry in elementary or secondary schools, and administration buildings. So you could carry on a college campus, however, you still couldn't carry on an elementary, middle, or high school campus.

The upside, is that it sounds like you will be able to carry in your vehicle on those campuses, as the vehicle portion cannot be restricted.

I personally hope the open carry portion goes through. Not sure that I will OC much, however it is nice to have the option.

calvin13
March 14, 2011, 07:20 PM
Anybody have information about today? I know what I read. I just need clarification.

03/14/2011 Senate • CS by Criminal Justice; YEAS 3 NAYS 2

CS by Criminal Justice on March 14, 2011: Deleted revisions to the definitions of places a person may not carry a firearm, concealed or openly, thereby restoring current law.

StogieC
March 14, 2011, 07:49 PM
The bill passed the first of three committee stops in the Florida senate. Campus carry is dead but Open Carry by CWFL holders is still the main component of the bill.

pikid89
March 14, 2011, 09:23 PM
As a student at the University of Florida, the loss of campus carry really burns me
my heart goes out to the family of the FSU girl that was killed, but in reality, she was killed by a drunk frat rat off campus with a hunting rifle...it has nothing to do with lawful licensed carry on campuses

StogieC
March 14, 2011, 09:37 PM
we will hit them again next year on campus carry.

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