Tokarev TT-33 Buy?


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M91/30
December 12, 2010, 11:35 AM
SOG is having a special deal on romanian tokarevs and I'm thinking I just might get one. What am I to expect when i get it? are they is decent condition? Etc
Also is there anything I need to know before I get it?

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harmon rabb
December 12, 2010, 12:32 PM
They're in pretty decent condition. Only thing to know is that the surplus ammo is corrosive, so you need to clean the barrel after each range trip.

wally
December 12, 2010, 03:06 PM
Mine from SOG was mostly free of cosmoline so it wasn't hard to get it ready to shoot. I got two and a bunch of mags, kept the best looker for "collecting", and shoot the heck out of the other.

I can't reload for the price of the surplus 7.62x25 ammo. Only issue is you must clean with water afterwards, not a big deal as the Tok is made for easy cleaning, but sometimes I leave it home if I'm not sure I'll have time to clean it when I get home from the range.

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 05:37 PM
There are some issues with these YUGO Tokarev, with safeties and some other parts and parts availabilty, do a google search on it.

Sure they are a cheap to fire center fire pistol, but are they really practicle for a purely target ,plinking or range pistol.

Compare it to buying a new browning buckmark 22lr target pistol.

Tokarev = poor trigger, non adjustable sights better hope it hits point of aim, no spare parts available, $120 for 1100 rounds thorough cleaning required corrosive ammo, price of the gun $240 with dealer and shipping costs.

Browning buckmark 22lr = great trigger, adjustable sights, very cheap to shoot 1050 rounds for $70, upgradable, and american made, also very accurate and you don't have to clean it everytime you shoot it. $250 -$325 at most shops.

I would rather put out another $129 and buy the sig p6 for $329 from J/G sales

I was often tempted to buy this type of Tokarev surplus pistol, but you have to ask yourself, what are you really going to do with this gun, you can't use it for ccw, and as a plinker or strictly range gun there are a lot better choices out there.

Even though .762 x 25 is real cheap, about $130 shipped for 1100 rounds, you can buy 9mm x 19 for $169 for a 1000 rounds right not and shoot it out of a lot of decent pistols, USA and European made.

harmon rabb
December 12, 2010, 05:42 PM
xr1200, have you fired one? they're just plain fun.... and that's what they're good for -- a range toy.

KodiakBeer
December 12, 2010, 05:51 PM
There are some issues with these YUGO Tokarev, with safeties and some other parts and parts availabilty, do a google search on it.

The OP is asking about Romanian Tok's.

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 05:57 PM
Handled and fired the chinese, polish, and russian , versions. They never really impressed me quality, design, workmanship etc.

Even when they were only $99 , I never wanted to waste the money on one. For $200 at that time they were a lot beter guns to get.

harmon rabb
December 12, 2010, 06:02 PM
Even when they were only $99 , I never wanted to waste the money on one. For $200 at that time they were a lot beter guns to get.

More useful firearms? Absolutely. $200 will get you a CZ-82 or PA-63, both suitable for carry, unlike the Tokarev.

But more fun? I'm not so sure about that ;) The Tokarev is a freakin' blast to fire.

Fastcast
December 12, 2010, 06:05 PM
Obviously, someone has never fired a 7.62x25 pistol like the TT-33 or CZ-52......They're an absolute riot to shoot! :evil:

Shooting a .22 pistol after shooting a 7.62x25 would seem like a cap gun with a flag drooping from the muzzle. :o

Kiwis and watermelons!

harmon rabb
December 12, 2010, 06:07 PM
hey xr1200, since you're hung up on muzzle energy in the other thread, why don't you check out the muzzle energy of typical 7.62x25 loads vs. typical 9mm loads :rolleyes:

Fastcast
December 12, 2010, 06:08 PM
Handled and fired the chinese, polish, and russian , versions. :scrutiny:

I guess you do get around....lol

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 06:08 PM
back in the late 80's and early 90's , you could get a brand new interams star 9mm for $250 amd many used 9mm non police guns for $200 -$250 like SW 659, 59 etc. when the 5900 SW series 9mm came out and even new ruger 9mm pistols were only $295 new retail.

Fastcast
December 12, 2010, 06:09 PM
hey xr1200, since you're hung up on muzzle energy in the other thread, why don't you check out the muzzle energy of typical 7.62x25 loads vs. typical 9mm loads :rolleyes:

My thoughts exactly, in the last thread.....Cheers!

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 06:14 PM
.762 x 25 is a good round and is equal or better than some 9mm loads. But what guns can you shoot it out of ?

There are really no certified self defense hollow point loads that would make the round legal and suitable for CCW use or home defense.

.762 x 25 is also known to over penentrate and even defeat some early bullet proof vests.

Shadow 7D
December 12, 2010, 06:22 PM
some gun have lovers some have haters
if you hate it, then what's the point, personally I'd love to have the money for a matched pair of every one, the commies ode to JMB.

They are a piece of history, that throws little chunks of lead down range in a most spectacular and to quote my brother "WOW, oooh, cool" fashion, and that is from a 34 year old computer game programmer, sadly the most 'range' time he usually gets is reading specs and making the guns look real, so if you are ever playing a computer game, and the Tokarev has a huge flash and the usual boom, he might have programed it.

Joe Demko
December 12, 2010, 06:24 PM
"Waste?":scrutiny:

See, I wanted a TT-33. Not a Buckmark or some other .22. I wanted a TT-33 specifically. I bought a Romanian from J&G Sales early in 2010 and I've been as happy as that proverbial pig with it. It's a blast at the range on reactive targets.

You buy what you want and don't get too hung up on what other people do with their money.

Shadow 7D
December 12, 2010, 06:26 PM
Um, buddy

there is no certified self defense hollow point loads
for any caliber PERIOD
either that or I'm missing the the foil seal on my federal hps

KodiakBeer
December 12, 2010, 06:28 PM
There are really no certified self defense hollow point loads that would make the round legal and suitable for CCW use or home defense.

What are the "legal" and "certified" defense loads people are allowed to use? "Suitable" is entirely subjective, but I suspect the buyer is more interested in blowing up water jugs and melons, so it's a moot point anyway.

Fastcast
December 12, 2010, 06:32 PM
.762 x 25 is a good round and is equal or better than some 9mm loads. But what guns can you shoot it out of ?

There are really no certified self defense hollow point loads that would make the round legal and suitable for CCW use or home defense.

.762 x 25 is also known to over penentrate and even defeat some early bullet proof vests.

Maybe you haven't seen what basic FMJ/harball 7.62x25 does to ballistic gelatin. :evil:

Have a look!

http://www.brassfetcher.com/762x25mm.html

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 06:34 PM
any HOLLOW POINT load that is for personal defense and police use is highly recommended by all CCW trainers and the NRA. Certified may be a wrong choice of words, but you should know the meaning behind it.

bigfatdave
December 12, 2010, 06:40 PM
Sure they are a cheap to fire center fire pistol, but are they really practicle for a purely target ,plinking or range pistol.
Practical, by the way.
And who says you couldn't carry one? People are out there concealing full-size 1911-pattern guns, the Tok is about that size and nicely thin. Why not carry it if it runs reliably? Heck, I'm wondering if I should set my CZ52 up for winter carry, everyone seems to think HP ammo will clog up after going through the seven layers of Bison leather and fluffy down that muggers wear, and I can solve that problem with 1933 technology instead of silly magic bullets.

.762 x 25 is a good round and is equal or better than some 9mm loads. But what guns can you shoot it out of ?seven POINT six-two millimeter by twenty-five millimeter, by the way.
You can launch those little .30 caliber boolits out of a CZ52, a Tokarev-pattern pistol, or a PPSh variant, and there are Tok-chambered AK47 variants coming out here and there.
The more pistols on the market, the closer we are to modern production HP ammo, and I think just about ANY JHP design will expand at those velocities, I'd be more worried about it shredding than not expanding.
You're right about surplus ball not being the best option for defensive uses, if you're firing into a crowd. I keep it around just in case the tinfoil-hat brigade is right and we all need Kevlar-punching handguns.

It's a blast at the range on reactive targets.Except when it blows through the targets like they were paper (I've had that happen blasting an Al pot with my CZ52, I thought I was missing at first)

M91/30, I don't know the condition of the SOG guns, but if you've handled a Tok at a shop/show and like the ergonomics, why not go for it? At least you'll get a plinker out of the deal! Grab some spare mags while you're at it, I seem to remember reading about OK guns shipping with trashed mags recently.

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 06:48 PM
Under the current trends in laws, you can't shoot anyone with FMJ loads period.

While you may win a criminal trial, if your loads don't over penentrate and don't hit any innocent ppl. and the shooting is in self defense.

The family or your shooting victim , is going to take you to the cleaners, in a civil lawsuit.

FMJ are simply not acceptable except for target and hunting use ,any CCW trainer wil tell you this and the NRA

bigfatdave
December 12, 2010, 06:48 PM
any HOLLOW POINT load that is for personal defense and police use is highly recommended by all CCW trainers and the NRA.

Neither po-po nor the NRA are unbiased ammunition reviewers.

Shadow 7D
December 12, 2010, 06:52 PM
Oh, and they are build like a brick house, where technology and precision could be supplanted by sheer mass... yeah, we know what the soviets chose.

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 06:52 PM
BIG FAT DAVE - I pity you if you ever get into a shooting, you really need to ask some qualified experts in your area, on what type of loads to carry.

Shadow 7D
December 12, 2010, 06:54 PM
While you may win a criminal trial, if your loads don't over penentrate and don't hit any innocent ppl. and the shooting is in self defense.

The family or your shooting victim , is going to take you to the cleaners, in a civil lawsuit.

No body I lawfully shoot is going to do anything but waste money trying to sue me
GOTTA love castle doctrine, it goes to court, DA says it was legal, and they have to pay court costs, and those can get damn expensive.

and if you hate the guns so much, what are you doing on this thread other than spoiling for a fight.

KodiakBeer
December 12, 2010, 06:54 PM
Under the current trends in laws, you can't shoot anyone with FMJ loads period.

You're making that up, aren't you?

bigfatdave
December 12, 2010, 06:59 PM
BIG FAT DAVE - I pity you if you ever get into a shooting, you really need to ask some qualified experts in your area, on what type of loads to carry.

I pity you living in fear of what might happen if you are forced to defend your life.
While there may have been a few sensational cases, what percentage of shootings do you think end up in court after the defender is cleared?

Try this, I'll wait and you can tell me how it feels:
-walk to the bathroom or any other mirror
-stand up straight, throw your shoulders back and look yourself in the eye
-state the following in your most serious voice:
-"I am a law-abiding citizen, and I am not to be questioned"
--Repeat until you believe it, as it stands you're awfully ready and willing to be questioned

Tell us if you feel better after taking a swing at that, I bet you will.

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 07:18 PM
Almost 99 % of them do unless you live in a state that does not allow you to sue an individually civilly after they have been cleared in a justified criminal or grand jury trial.

I believed the same as you only months ago and I moved to another state and I had to take a new CCW class to carry concealed.

FMJ may have been considered legal to carry 20 yrs ago, but there have been new court cases tried and won by victims of shooting involving FMJ, HUNTING AND TARGET LOADS , HANDLOADS etc.

USE THESE TYPES OF LOADS FOR DEFENSE AND A DA OR CIVIL ATTORNEY WILL TRY AND PORTRAY YOU AS CHALES BRONSON OR RAMBO LOOKING FOR TROUBLE.

Any qualified CCW trainer states clearly to only carry loads recommended for police and personal defense loads.

The new school of thought is that if you carry the same ammunition that your local police use, then there has already been case precedance set, when the police departments service ammunition has been brought into its legal use in a police shooting.

Also when ever you use your gun in self defense, you are going to be held to the same legal standards that a cop must be justified in using deadly force and you not being a cop, will not have the police department and the DA on your side.

KodiakBeer
December 12, 2010, 07:30 PM
FMJ may have been considered legal to carry 20 yrs ago, but there have been new court cases tried and won by victims of shooting involving FMJ, HUNTING AND TARGET LOADS , HANDLOADS etc.


Can you cite one? I thought not...

bigfatdave
December 12, 2010, 07:34 PM
Almost 99 %
[Citation needed]

Any qualified CCW trainer states clearly to only carry loads recommended for police and personal defense loadsAnd when you get accused of "trying to be the police" because your ammo box says "law enforcement" what then?
What if you get accused of "looking for someone to shoot"?

You'll do what I already said, stand up tall, and state that you're not to be questioned and stand on the fact that you shot defensively.
Act like a citizen, not a subject who needs police approval, for the love of FSM!

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 07:46 PM
Your not made out to be a wanabee cop, if you use police ammunition. If it is legal for the police to use a certain type of ammunition in shooting someone, then it is also legal for a private citizen to use the same ammo for self defense.

I did not say to use ammo only marked for LEO use only.

I am not comparing ammunition to what swat would use or hi power rifles or 50 BMG, you have to use some common sense here.

Read my posting in the handguns general discussion about CCW ammunition and we will see what the CCW and Police say.

Shadow 7D
December 12, 2010, 07:50 PM
Ok so back on topic
if you want to take the thread this way
XR, please take it to S&T

I was thinking about getting one, really can't beat the price, but I already have one, and just can't swing it, wife would say I should have spent it on the kids, and she won't buy that I got it for the little guy....

but hell of a deal, hell of a gun, as long as it's in good condition, I have seen pretty ones that are eaten out inside from not cleaning after corrosive ammo.

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 08:08 PM
The decision is simple would you rather have a quality made west german P6 9mm for $329 or the Tokarev for $200, with no parts or future service available for it.

Ammo difference .762 x 25 = 1100 rounds for $100 or 9mm x 19 = 1000 rounds for $169

You may pay a little more now if you buy a sig p6, but believe me you will be a lot happier with the Sig P6 than the Tokarev and what happens when all the cheap .762 x 25 ammo dries up and you have to buy custom loads for it.

30 cal luger was in the same boat years ago, what good is it to own a gun that you can not afford to buy the ammo for.

Alot of these com bloc guns are fun to toy with, but a lot of them really serve no practicle purpose when compared to other firearms similar to them in caliber and price.

Its like trying to use a moisant nagant 91/30 for a long range deer rifle. It would cost you about $450 to scope one and install a good trigger on it, as opposed to just buying a savage bolt action $300 30-06 at wally world in the first place.

You have to use some common sense when buying these surplus guns, as to what you will really use it for, and what value you can get out of it.

If you buy the Tokarev get the yugo one as they are probaly the best quality and buy about 3000 rnds that should last a life time of shooting.

xr1200
December 12, 2010, 08:15 PM
Heres another members post about his now dead CZ52 , your Tokarev could end up the same way.

Quote : My CZ-52 bit the dust...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had this pistol for around 5 years now and have probably put 4000 rounds through it. It has been a great pistol and on of my favorite guns. I took it shooting yesterday and it performed great as usual, though; i did have one stovepipe which i have never gotten before.

When I cleaned it later at home, i noticed a 1" crack on the slide starting at the ejection port and going toward the muzzle end. Needless to say, this pistol is no longer safe to shoot.

I have mostly shot romanian surplus though it, but I did put 800rounds of the bad '52 headstamp bulgarian though it some years ago. I remember there was a couple of hot ones in there, but nothing serious and i didnt see any damage. Again, that was years ago and i have put thousands of rounds through it since.

I think maybe the rough machining, which creates stress risers; and the poor communist metallurgy caused the problem. It seems like the slide of the pistol is made from the same metal as the famously breakable firing pin. I dont know for sure.

Well, now I'm looking for a new slide. If anyone knows where I can get one, that would be a big help. I would hate to retire this gun for good.

KodiakBeer
December 12, 2010, 08:20 PM
Alot of these com bloc guns are fun to toy with, but a lot of them really serve no practicle purpose when compared to other firearms similar to them in caliber and price.


Many of us don't care if a gun has a practical purpose. Only a few of my guns have a practical purpose, the rest are for fun or just because I find them interesting or had $200 in my pocket when I saw it.

mongo4567
December 12, 2010, 09:02 PM
I have a Romanian one and I love it. They are a real blast to shoot with all the muzzle energy and cheap surplus ammo. I'm not a big fan of SOG (will buy from someone else if it is available elsewhere), but they do have a very good return policy.

Fastcast
December 12, 2010, 09:03 PM
It seems like the slide of the pistol is made from the same metal as the famously breakable firing pin. I dont know for sure.

^ :scrutiny: :rolleyes:


BTW.....There's several commercial manufactures for 7.62x25.....Including Sellier & Bellot, PRVI, Wolf and Winchester.......Even more for 9x18 Mak.

I doubt there's going to be any issues getting ammo when the surplus dries up.:rolleyes: ....... If it cost more so what. You want to play, you pay.

amd6547
December 12, 2010, 09:20 PM
I own a Romanian Tokarev, and find it to be a lot of pistol. I bought it at the height of the ammo shortage, when 9mm was just about unobtainable. Noticed that surplus 7.62x25 was available cheap. I have a sealed can that I wont open.
While I used to own a P6 and thought it a good serviceble handgun, it was nowhere near the fun of the Tok. I shoot my Tok all the way out to 100yds...The flat trajectory makes it easy. There are JHP's available, and the Tok actually carries very well...not many full sized service pistols carry as easily, due to the short grip and how thin the pistol is.

il_10
December 12, 2010, 09:28 PM
Its like trying to use a moisant nagant 91/30 for a long range deer rifle. It would cost you about $450 to scope one and install a good trigger on it, as opposed to just buying a savage bolt action $300 30-06 at wally world in the first place.

Seriously? Have you ever tinkered with a "mosin-nagant"? You can adjust the trigger with a file and a piece of tin can, and mounting a scope can be as cheap or as expensive as you want to make it, with all the scout mounts and repro mosin sniper scopes out there, it's never going to be more expensive than scoping that $300 GUN. you're already $200 behind going that route. But this thread isn't about the mosin-nagant, so moving on to the tt-33.

Heres another members post about his now dead CZ52 , your Tokarev could end up the same way.

Did one of these things eat your dog or something? The tt-33 is not a cz-52. They're made in different countries using different tooling methods and different mechanisms altogether. Further, that's literally the only cz-52 I've ever heard of failing in this fashion. The tt-33 is built copying a JMB design, so if you think they're inherently unsafe, then to be charitable or intellectually honest you have to also submit that the 1911, 1903, and 1908 colts are inherently unsafe. As is any modern gun utilizing the same kind of locked-breech design (including, for example, those two kimbers and brownings you mentioned in your range report thread).

As for ammunition prices: of course they'll go up. Everything goes up in price per inflation and availability. You're .45 will go up, and is way higher than 7.62x25 is now. If it gets cost prohibitive, sell the gun (which will also have gone up in value due to inflation. Funny how economics works). The fact that 7.62x25 is cheaper than any other center fire round on the market, has energy levels that blow 9mm para out of the water and some approaching .357 sig, and available in a handgun that's slim, accurate and comfortable, makes it a pretty freakin' enticing thing as far as I'm concerned. There's no reason not to buy it at the price it's at now, and investing in something that you know for a fact will go up in value later is pretty much exactly how you make money in any field ever (though I know that's not the intent here... just a nice side effect).
It's chambered in the tt-33, the cz-52, some ak variants, some sterling rifles and pistols, ppsh variants, it makes a good cheap plinking round for mosin nagants with a $20 adapter.

FMJ may have been considered legal to carry 20 yrs ago, but there have been new court cases tried and won by victims of shooting involving FMJ, HUNTING AND TARGET LOADS , HANDLOADS etc.

Doesn't matter. You can't cite a source for FMJs being treated any worse in a courtroom than hollow points (though I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting that the OPPOSITE is true). The biggest factor here is that this argument is completely ridiculous, because hollow point ammunition in 7.62x25 is widely available and pretty cheap. A simple internet search would have told you that.

but, here's a couple links!

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=360976
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/49074-5.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/37236-5.html (though this is sold out)

In any case, if you want a fun plinking gun with plenty of muzzle energy for self defense, with plenty of ammunition available to make it viable for self defense, a gun that has the capability of defeating lower-rated armor, with the cheapest bulk prices of any (that I know of) centerfire round... buy a tokarev. I've never known anyone to be dissatisfied with one, other than the funky grip angle, which can be fixed any number of ways.

Edit: XR, I just read your plastic vs steel pistol thread, and now I'm more confused than ever. The tt-33 should be right up your alley: it's an all-steel gun utilizing nice machining and build quality for far cheaper than even the plastic guns you loathe (for, I think, biased reasons, but that's neither here nor there). Russian heat-treating methods have been fantastic since the late 19th century. I've never heard of nor seen one KB, and they're about as reliable as they come (like most things Russian-made).

MidwestRookie
December 12, 2010, 10:48 PM
man...i had to ignore that xr guy...i could barely read the thread..

do you guys know if the service pack that wolff sells is good to use in a yugo tokarev? im getting ready to order one and wouldnt mind having the extras around..

http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=68

Shadow 7D
December 13, 2010, 12:07 AM
the yugo uses a captured spring, so changing it out would be more work, if it can be done, I forget if it's screwed or pinned in,

And I completely agree
the XR guy has completely DERAILED THIS THREAD WITH OFF TOPIC CONTENT
I would call him something, but I'm still carrying infractions for explaining to a newbie why she would be called a troll by an admin.

VA27
December 13, 2010, 12:49 AM
I shot my Romanian Tok today and it was a hoot, as it always is! Nothing better for zombies!

M91/30
December 13, 2010, 02:47 AM
Thanks for the info, I think ill get it, i figure 165$ plus shipping its probably worth it. Ill post pics and a range report if i remember.

makarovnik
December 13, 2010, 05:41 AM
Be prepared for a lot of fun. You'll enjoy the the smooth shooting and the big blue flame out the muzzle.

A far as sights, the rear should be drift adjustable.

goon
December 13, 2010, 11:52 AM
There are JHP loads available for the 7.62x25 - S&B makes them. It would have to be one tough bullet to not expand at the speed that bullet will be traveling. I wouldn't buy one as a primary defensive weapon because there are better options, but if I had one I'd try the JHP's in it and keep a magazine loaded with them if they were reliable.

bigfatdave
December 13, 2010, 02:00 PM
I think xr1200 is here for the sole sake of arguing, the poor spelling and deliberate refusal to post a citation are dead giveaways. It would be amusing if the text wasn't so hard to read ... seriously, Firefox has built-in spell-check XR ... there's no excuse for lousy spelling in this day and age, and it marks you as someone just looking for a fight.

Back to the actual topic ... M91/30, I hope you have a blast with your new toy, remember to take precautions for corrosive ammo and you might want to double up hearing protection if shooting on a small indoor range.

I forgot that Ol' Painless over on the Box O Truth did a review:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu59.htm
It is even on a Romanian model, I'm not sure if different importers did different things to make them importable, though, it might not be an exact match for the one you're looking at.

You nkow what, I'm picking up a Tok too next time I come across one, and getting a nice holster for it while I'm at it, just to annoy the naysayers.

Col. Plink
December 13, 2010, 02:03 PM
What is SOG?

Enough acronyms already!

Oh, and for what it's worth, the 7.62x25 might the best of the underutilized cartridges. My CZ-52 is accurate, reliable (as in 2000+ rounds without failure) and fun. AND CHEAP!

blakeci
December 13, 2010, 02:16 PM
Speaking of Wolff springs, I got their replacement recoil spring (standard weight) for my Romanian Tok, and man! I didn't realize how far gone my old recoil spring was, it made the old girl handle even better. It actually tightened up my groups by about .5 to .75 of an inch. Now when I release the slide, it snaps forward with authority and feels much more consistant during recoil.

GBExpat
December 13, 2010, 02:38 PM
SOG is having a special deal on romanian tokarevs and I'm thinking I just might get one. What am I to expect when i get it? are they is decent condition?

I bought one from SOG last summer and am pleased with it. It is a bit rougher in fit & finish than I hoped, but I was spoiled by my first 2 TT-33s being of Polish MFR. Its F&F is closer to that of my WW2 Soviet TT-33s.

There was no cosmo on the piece but I did a detail-strip/clean/inspection as my first order of business and all of the components were in good shape.

Dr.Rob
December 13, 2010, 02:55 PM
SOG = Southern Ohio Gun, an online retailer and common source of surplus arms.

The Tok has always seemed like an oddball piece to me, the grip angle is strange, the lack of a safety is baffling and the sights are tiny. Still, there's a lot of history in these old pistols and the main difference between those being imported now is how they've been adopted with a safety. Supposedly the Polish pistols had the slickest conversion yet seen.

Even with its quirks I have always felt these iron curtain pistols make a great defensive choice for a shooter on a budget.

As the fmj being illegal or unwise discussion, you are responsible for every bullet you fire. Doesn't matter if it's a glaser or hardball. The vast numbers of Soviet bloc surplus arms available has created a market for defensive ammo in 7.62 Tok, but this is fairly new development. Most people are going to be shooting ball ammo.

Shadow 7D
December 14, 2010, 07:00 PM
Actually Rob, I like the yugos, the longer grip really does improve the feel, though I would like to find some Norinco grips to try out, I think the added palm swell would help my western sensibilities.

I know that the HP is out there, and was thinking of using hard cast if I ever get around to reloading. I might have to work on gas checks if I push it.

GBExpat
December 14, 2010, 07:24 PM
Last summer, my initial order from SOG was for one,each Romy & Yugo TT-33 Variant. Very soon after the first order was delivered, I placed a second order ... this one was for another Yugo.

I, too, like the longer grip ... AND, as a bonus, I already have plenty of Cz-52 mags that I can mod to work in the Yugo. :)

bgrav321
December 14, 2010, 08:54 PM
A Tokarev was my first pistol. I carried it for a few years. They are actually very thin, and considerably thinner than these polymer double stack jobs that are big right now (I have one of these SIG double stack jobs and love it, so I'm not a hater). The TT is actually more concealable than most of its critics realize.

Also, I would have no issues using this round for self defense. I realize that may be divisive here, and I respect the opinions of others. But many agree that the way to win a fight is to stop it as quickly and violently as possible. A TT33 is one of the most violent semi-autos out there. The same people who hate on the round don't have the same complaints for .357 SIG. My bro still carries his and loves it; due to the intuitiveness of the design he's to the point where he can shoot it without sighting. He can do that because he can buy ammo by the thousands and practice til its perfect. 7.62 x 25 is half the $ of 9mm in some places right now.

Remember, the best gun for you is the one you will practice with.

Old Scratch
December 14, 2010, 09:24 PM
If you don't like like the original grip angle, try a Tokagypt grip. Very comfortable.

FIVETWOSEVEN
December 14, 2010, 10:33 PM
Kinda off topic but how can I look at the Guns on SOG's site?

Shadow 7D
December 15, 2010, 12:00 AM
call, fax over your FFL, and they will email you your login information, then you log in and activate your account,

it's all right there in their support page...

If you don't have a FFL, well, sorry they don't even want to talk to you, if you think about it, it does make sense.

jeffmack
December 15, 2010, 12:43 AM
For the record, I have had some success with tokarevs on small game like rabbits and possums. The fmj's don't tear up too much meat on the little animals (the bullets don't have time to tumble), so it isn't much worse than a .22.

If you need to shoot an armadillo, you may want to move up to .45 hp's. Armadillos are practically indestructible.

Shadow 7D
December 15, 2010, 01:46 AM
um, no, that 7.62 was designed to penetrate
you just need to shoot them more

harmon rabb
December 15, 2010, 07:19 AM
If you need to shoot an armadillo, you may want to move up to .45 hp's. Armadillos are practically indestructible

uh, 7.62x25 will out penetrate any 45acp load in existence.

btw, i have a buddy with a vendetta against dillas. if he finds one on his property, he shoots it, so he's shot them with all sorts of things. they die easily and messily, especially when shot with 7.62x39 :o

jeffmack
December 15, 2010, 12:05 PM
***

FIVETWOSEVEN
December 15, 2010, 11:08 PM
call, fax over your FFL, and they will email you your login information, then you log in and activate your account,

it's all right there in their support page...

If you don't have a FFL, well, sorry they don't even want to talk to you, if you think about it, it does make sense.

I used to be able to view the guns by searching "pistol" or "revolver" but can't anymore.

batjka
December 16, 2010, 10:25 AM
Also don't forget that TT-33s are easily convertible to 9mm should a need arise. So if 7.62x25 somehow runs out, you will still be able to keep it going using a replacement 9mm barrel.

As far as carrying it, millions of people have and still do. There's always that question of the half-cock safety, but the gun was designed to be carried like that with one in the chamber. It is not your average half-cock notch. It is more of an 1/8 cock and is built to withstand any pressure applied to it. So if you want to carry cocked and locked, no problem. Just don't forget to thumb the hammer back when it comes down to it.

Onmilo
December 16, 2010, 10:56 AM
Don't buy into the half cock safety fallacy.
The guns are designed to be carried chamber empty, hammer down.
I don't give a hoot how deep the hammer notch is, the sear is still very thin and very fragile and that is what will shear.

That said, I own a Romanian Tokarev now and have owned several others in the past.
The guns are reliable and combat accurate.

The 7.62X25 cartridge is fully capable of taking the piss and vinegar out of most assailants and the bullet will penetrate things like combat vests and the loaded magazines stored in them and still retain enough energy to hurt the person wearing the stuff.

This is something a .45 acp will NOT do.

People who think the Tokarev cartridge is a weakling are kidding themselves.

Fastcast
December 16, 2010, 11:42 AM
People who think the Tokarev cartridge is a weakling are kidding themselves.

No doubt but I've heard it many times how it would not be a good man stopper because it's only 85gr.......BS!

Tell that to the wife of one of the local LEOs who was shot dead a few years ago by a crazed nut with a 7.62x25 (I believe CZ52)......newspaper said CZ.

LEO was hunched over while trying to get back to his car for cover, when he was hit once in the buttocks. Bullet exited his neck. Needless to say but he expired on the spot, next to his cruiser......I believe other LEOs arrived and took the nut out. Good riddance!

Shadow 7D
December 17, 2010, 07:12 AM
While the basic vest rating in the US use 9mm as the kinda soft armor design point, in many other countries it is the 7.62 Tok, that is feared (will penetrate a soft vest BTW)

ilikestuff
January 15, 2011, 10:02 PM
most places only stock the fmj wolf loads, but wolf does make a hp load which is also loaded a bit lighter....I'd have to check but i think around 125 fps slower than their fmj load. you can also order some handloads from reeds ammo. if you want a self defense round.

Old Scratch
January 16, 2011, 12:42 AM
QUOTE:

"Under the current trends in laws, you can't shoot anyone with FMJ loads period.

While you may win a criminal trial, if your loads don't over penentrate and don't hit any innocent ppl. and the shooting is in self defense.

The family or your shooting victim , is going to take you to the cleaners, in a civil lawsuit.

FMJ are simply not acceptable except for target and hunting use ,any CCW trainer wil tell you this and the NRA"

I've been a criminal lawyer for more than 25 years and have seldom read such nonsense.
"Trends in criminal laws?" What trends? Show me. Do your research before you write. And I don't mean in Captain Billy's drugstore magazine rack gun mags. That isn't law.

M91/30
January 16, 2011, 02:24 AM
Well... it seems that this thread has taken a turn away form its original intent. :rolleyes: Anyways just reporting in that i have a cz-52 on the way and will be posting a report soonish.

Rocketmedic
January 16, 2011, 12:49 PM
New CZ52 owner here too.

ilikestuff
January 16, 2011, 01:21 PM
I have a M57 from J&G sales in Prescott. paid for hand select. actually went there and chose the best out of 3 hand selects they showed me. it's a nice gun accurate, 2 mags and holster for 229$.extra mags are not as easy as a t33 though.most other parts are drop in fits though. the firing pin retention is different, and the safety.I would recommend one of these for purchase.seem to be very good fit and function,have not had any problems.had none of what some people claim as drawbacks. safety works fine,feeds and fires 100%,I'm a newby at pistols and easily average 1 inch groups at 10 yards.

Snowdog
January 16, 2011, 06:22 PM
One surplus cartridge (Yugo milsurp here), one .308 caliber Sierra Sports Master 85gr JSP, a kinetic bullet puller and a set of loading dies for the 7.62x25/.30Mauser equals a viable option for dirt-cheap expanding JSP.

Using the same case, powder charge and primer, I simply swap out a military surplus FMJ with a commercial JSP, keeping the pulled fmj for later reloading if needed. Simply make sure you're not pulling a bullet belonging to a cartridge with a split case neck (sometimes encountered with Romanian and Polish surplus). Yugo surplus doesn't seem to have this issue due to a different crimp style.

I'd much rather carry the expanding loads I quickly made for my M57s than any FMJ.
And yes, they most certainly do expand.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/5038308966_a6f3398df0_b.jpg

harmon rabb
January 16, 2011, 06:38 PM
I've been a criminal lawyer for more than 25 years and have seldom read such nonsense.

"Trends in criminal laws?" What trends? Show me. Do your research before you write. And I don't mean in Captain Billy's drugstore magazine rack gun mags. That isn't law.

I'm a lawyer, albeit not a criminal lawyer. But I agree with you. Utter nonsense. The only way in which I could see your ammo mattering is if you shoot in self defense, and the round travels through your intended target (or, say, a wall) and hits an innocent bystander.

Shadow 7D
January 16, 2011, 08:55 PM
Hey Harmon, didn't we already spend a page (end of 1 most of 2) making the point that the guy is clueless in what he is saying

My point is, if you don't like toks, why jump a page about them??
smell orge? smell fey?
smell someone who is just spoiling for a fight

Old Scratch
January 16, 2011, 09:34 PM
Maybe this is like beating a dead horse, and then maybe it isn't. The great thing about threads like THR is that they are being read. The bad thing is that they can also carry some seriously defective goods into the marketplace of ideas.

The difference between lawful self defense and an illegal shooting is NOT determined by the type of ammunition used, yet there is much discussion suggesting that somehow it is. This is dangerous thinking for all involved.

Okay, the public service announcement is over.

Incidentally, I personally like Toks.

toivo
January 17, 2011, 12:12 AM
Good thread. Magazines for the Yugo M57 are (or will soon be) available from here:

http://ccsportingarms.com/

I just bought a Yugo from J&G. I haven't shot it yet--it's encased in cosmoline and it going to be a chore to clean. The spare magazine was glued into the pouch with cosmo: I had to pry it out with a plastic knife and pliers.

Looking forward to shooting it! It's about 2F up here right now, but should warm up by the end of the week. Or the month. Or sometime.

wally
January 17, 2011, 12:22 PM
"US Made" & "improved" make me nervous about magazines for foreign made guns. Price seems pretty high too.

toivo
January 17, 2011, 02:59 PM
"US Made" & "improved" make me nervous about magazines for foreign made guns. Price seems pretty high too.
I've got my fingers crossed, because they're the only game in town right now. OE mags for the Yugo are about double that price, if you can find them.

Shadow 7D
January 17, 2011, 07:10 PM
Keepshooting.com
has 52 mags, that you just need to dremil a slot for the mag release

These are quality from all the reviews I have found, and not the 3k soft metal junk

MidwestRookie
January 17, 2011, 08:01 PM
I ordered 3 of the ccsa mags for my m57 as they were the same price as 1 original on gunbroker..we'll see how they work when they come in..

speedway
January 17, 2011, 09:04 PM
I bought a Romanian from SOG. It was loaded with cosmo, but after I cleaned it, the gun was in great shape, and a fun shooter. I also bought a Yugo from them. Both are great shooters.

Sportsmans guide has the ammo for slightly more than some others, but they offer free shipping often enough.

woad_yurt
January 22, 2011, 04:37 PM
Tokarevs are a lot of bang for the buck.

I have two, both Norincos. One's 7.62 and the other's in 9MM. In general, though, they're more or less equivalent to all of the other Toks out there. They are sweet pistols. For the range, 7.62X25 is a helluva round. Get a few spam cans' worth of surplus and you'll be set for years.

Regarding self-defense, I'd feel perfectly comfortable carrying one and have done so in the past quite a few times when I'm in the mood for something different. They're thin enough to carry concealed without problems.

Regarding SD ammo, Wolf's hollowpoints devastate 2X4s, newspaper bundles and anything else I've shot with them. They make a supreme mess.

Regarding parts, I know where to get them. If anyone needs anything Tok-related, go to the gunbroker seller named "yakooza." He's got everything.

Smoovbiscuit
January 22, 2011, 05:03 PM
xr1200, is that really a law?! if so is it state or federal. I keep hollow points ready anyways but still..

bigfatdave
January 22, 2011, 07:27 PM
Smoovbiscuit did you read all the responses to the original legal opinions of xr1200?

MidwestRookie
January 23, 2011, 12:17 AM
^ i put that guy on my ignored list after reading the first 4 or 5 posts I ever saw him make...please dont listen to him about anything..

M91/30
January 27, 2011, 05:32 PM
I ended up getting a cz-52, sorry guys, But should a be? :)
Anyways here is the thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=570114

woad_yurt
January 28, 2011, 09:43 AM
CZ52s are also frickin' great. If you feel so inclined, check out a Harrington kit (link below.) Both of my pistols' original firing pins broke at the range, cutting my day short. The Harrington kits prevent all of that while also making the guns quite a bit nicer to shoot. A slightly heavier recoil spring is also recommended as the gun won't beat itself and your hand to death.

With the Harrington kit and recoil spring swap, my 52s are now totally reliable and much, much more comfortable to shoot.

Congratulations on your new purchase!

Here's a link to the Harrington site, if you're interested:

http://www.harringtonproducts.com/firing-pins/cz-52-3/

wolfen1949
May 1, 2011, 08:28 PM
Get a Yugo thier saftey works, And they just went C&R. Mant pass on the Yugo cause of the cost of Magazines. The CZ 52 Magazines from Triple K and others work fine. Just need to cut the magazine notch in them. Plus the Yougo all so has a long grip and hold one more round.

wolfen1949
May 2, 2011, 02:01 PM
Fastcast Thank you for the photo. I load my own 7.62x25 and I use the Hornady 86 Grain softpoint. Expandes great and cuts down on the over penitration problem. I have not been able to see what it does in Jell but with wet newspaper get awesome results.

wolfen1949
May 2, 2011, 02:24 PM
I added new sights to mine, did some trigger work . waiting now for a 9mm Barrel which I will rechamber to 9x23. I will be able to shoot 7.62x25, 9mm Largo , .38 super comp. and 9x23 if brave enough out of the same gun.

gym
May 2, 2011, 03:17 PM
I'm interested now. Would you bet your life on one for home defense, just curious, they are cheap enough to have a couple layin around in rooms that I may want an extra gun.

wolfen1949
May 3, 2011, 12:25 PM
want to use a TOK. or CZ52 for defence get a 9mm barrel. Have a gunsmith or self open the barrel up to 9x23 then will be able to shoot .38 super comp. , 9mm Largo out of the Tok. and CZ52. I have heard that many even shoot the 9x23 out of thier Toks,. Over penitration and stopping power taken care of.

Snowdog
May 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
There are some folks out there who depend on their Tokarev for personal defense, I'm sure.

To my knowledge, the only real options out there that aren't FMJ are Wolf JHPs and Magsafe frangibles.

This is one of the reasons I would like to see a Pow'r Ball or Critical Defense option for the 7.62x25. I reload 85gr Sports Master JSPs, but I have noticed there's not much in terms of defensive loads for the 7.62x25 for those who don't reload.
I really think a 90gr Critical Defense of even FTX option (with rounded polymer insert) at 1550-1600 FPS would sell, albeit not at high volume since it's niche market.

I plan on carrying an M57 for hiking trips later this year, so obviously I trust my M57 to serve a defensive role.

Davek1977
May 4, 2011, 08:05 AM
While you may win a criminal trial, if your loads don't over penentrate and don't hit any innocent ppl. and the shooting is in self defense.

The family or your shooting victim , is going to take you to the cleaners, in a civil lawsuit.


Thats entirely subjective and dependent on where one lives. In South Dakota, a good shooting bars the victim or his or her family from suing for damages in a civil case. If you are in the clear from a criminal standpoint, you're good to go.....regardless if you've shiot them with a 7.62x25 FMJ, a .45 JHP, or a tracer from a 5.56. The ammo is legal, the sholot is legal, and there will be NO civil trial.In all honesty, prosecutors here in SD rarely tend to favor the "bad guy" and most shootings where self defense is claimed are ruled as such eventually. You can't speak in absolutes, and not expect to be questioned and corrected. Your statement was only partially accurate, and even then, only in certain jurisdictions. In South Dakota, I'd feel comfortable shooting an intruder with any gun in my collection, using any ammo, and I wouldn't be scared of the prosecution attacking my choice. In some areas, criminals are treated like criminals still, and won't be shown mercy by the court simply becasue their choices ended up resulting in death or a gunshot wound

Tokarevsrule
May 4, 2011, 08:47 AM
I bought a yugo m57 tokarev last year as my first pistol. It will be my ccw pistol because I can practice a lot and it is more powerful than a 9mm. After smoothing out the trigger I would say it is as reliable as a glock.:neener:
Wolf makes a good hp load for it. Just don't get it expecting a cheap 1911, only a cheap reliable commie pistol.

BTW a mn91/30 makes a terrific coyote gun with iron sights.:D

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