[WT]

I love the quote "I lost face. I had to defend my honor."

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/14327.htm

[techmike]

I found myself sympathizing with the mobster.:confused:

[mete]

WT, I don't understand, you're not allowed to have a gun in NY city. LOL The tv account was interesting , they said that this will make the club even more popular.

[Beav]

Man oh man, the stupid crap people kill and die for. :(

[JShirley]

An armed society...

[10-Ring]

Lost face? :rolleyes: How did that guy make it to 67 years old as a low level hood? :scrutiny:

[Jack T.]

"I thought it was a broken plate or a light bulb," she said. "But when I heard the second shot, I knew it was a gun. I just got under the table and prayed . . . I didn't know what was going on. Maybe someone was there to shoot everyone."

Honey, in some parts of America we can shoot back.

[WonderNine]

I found myself sympathizing with the mobster.

He was probably lieing.

Anyways I bet you have the Godfather trilogy on DVD...

[Pilgrim]

Anyways I bet you have the Godfather trilogy on DVD...
Saddam Hussein's training film?

Pilgrim

[Spot77]

Barone - who has two prior arrests for gambling and two more for gun possession - was charged with murder


Gosh darn! It's ILLEGAL for a criminal to have a gun! How dare he!:cuss:



More laws! More laws! We need more laws!

It's for the pimps. Somebody needs to protect them.

[WonderNine]

Barone - who has two prior arrests for gambling and two more for gun possession

Is it any wonder our legal system and prisons are overcrowded with these types of laws in the books.

Make me U.S.A. dictator for a week so I can fix some stuff! :D

[CZ 75 BD]

you could sent me to hell or to New York City, it would be about the same to me.

[carpettbaggerr]

Not slain for a song, slain for rudeness. And while it is technically a crime......


DINER SLAIN FOR A SONG

By MURRAY WEISS, GERSH KUNTZMAN and MARSHA KRANES
Victim Albert Circelli

Email Archives
Print Reprint

December 24, 2003 -- Every singer wants to knock 'em dead, but not the way it happened at Rao's.

After Broadway songbird Rena Strober sang to applause at the East Harlem hangout Monday night, one patron dissented loudly.

For that, Albert Circelli, 37, paid the ultimate price - he was gunned down by a low-level hood.

Gunman Louis Barone, 67, told cops he shot Circelli "to defend my honor" in a battle over the performance.

Barone said Circelli had been heckling Strober and started cursing him when he asked Circelli to cool it.

"I lost face. I had to defend my honor," he told cops. "I had no choice but to shoot him. I had no choice but to kill him."

Circelli was at the bar paying his tab when he began to trash Strober, a patron who was singing "Don't Rain on My Parade" a capella, according to Barone's account to police.

In Rao's informal atmosphere, diners often burst into song.

"Ah, shut up. Get her off. She sucks," Circelli snarled, Barone told cops in his confession.

After listening to Circelli spew more rude remarks about Strober, Barone said he told him, "Hey, have some respect."

Circelli responded by turning his venom on Barone, telling him, "F- - - you, I'll f- - - you in the ??? and I'll split you in two," Barone told cops.

The invective infuriated Barone, who allegedly pulled out his .38-caliber revolver. Circelli ran for his life, heading for the front door, cops said.

Barone allegedly chased after him and fired two bullets, one of them fatal.

The other bullet ripped through the left foot of Al Petraglia, who was sitting at a table with his cousin Ron Straci, the co-owner.

Barone ran out the front door, but didn't get very far.

"My bad luck was that there were two cops outside," he allegedly said in his confession.

Police Officer Charles Hollis, who nabbed him, said he and his partner were driving by the eatery when he spotted a waiter he knew and stopped to say hi.

"I heard the shots - bang! bang! - and then I saw the body drop through the window," Hollis said.

As Barone sprinted from the restaurant, "I just grabbed him," the cop said.

"At first, he yanked from me and said, 'I'm not the guy! I'm not the guy!' " Hollis said.

But an off-duty detective also at the scene insisted, "That's the shooter," Hollis said, and he kept his grip on him.

Later, in the patrol car, Hollis said, Barone "looked at me, leaned forward, and said, 'Officer, is he dead?'

"I said I didn't know," Hollis said.

"He was scared; he was a really scared old man," the cop said of Barone. "There was a kind of sadness about him."

Barone - who has two prior arrests for gambling and two more for gun possession - was charged with murder.

Strober, best known for her Broadway stint as Cosette in "Les Miserables," said she wasn't aware of Circelli's heckling. She said she had been table-hopping to thank fellow diners for their applause when a shot was fired.

"I thought it was a broken plate or a light bulb," she said. "But when I heard the second shot, I knew it was a gun. I just got under the table and prayed . . . I didn't know what was going on. Maybe someone was there to shoot everyone."

Neighbors in Barone's building in the Pelham Bay section of The Bronx described him as a quiet man - with a hair-trigger temper.

"If you complained to him, he'd blow up," one woman said.

Circelli, who lived with his mom and grandma in Yonkers, had been arrested once for assault, cops said. Records show he owned seven cars, including four Cadillacs and a Ferrari.

Pal Anthony Casareale said Circelli was a "hard-working guy" who ran an ambulette service.

Additional reporting by Angelina Cappiello, Ikimulisa Livingston, Alisha Berger, Braden Keil and Kate Sheehy

[AJ Dual]

http://www.nypost.com/photos/news12240304.jpg


Does the "Hair Club for Men" have a Vice President? Who's next in line for sucession?

[HBK]

:(

[Mastrogiacomo]

I know it sounds cold but I sympathized with the mobster too -- sounded like a rude jerk -- not that it makes it right. He should have been hit in the family jewels though -- at the very least....

[Ala Dan]

Looks like the "Big M" is alive and well :uhoh:, at
least in New York? :eek:

Kind'a funny, cuz most southern immigrant's from
the "old country" try and hide the mob's existence.

As an example, a few years ago when anti-freeze was
hard to get and prices rose dramatically; one family
owned store got 500 cases of the stuff, and sold
it for $8.50 a gallon. And on Saturday evenings, a big
black Cadillac with four well-dressed men in suit's and
tie's would stop by and pick up the week's proceeds.

I never saw a weapon; but I did have reason to believe
these folks were working for GOTTI and ASSOCIATES. :D
When I ask a life-long old friend about the existence of
the Costra Nostra (aka: MOB), he calmly replied;" OH! we
aren't involved in those type of activities any longer".


Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Standing Wolf]

"I lost face. I had to defend my honor," he told cops. "I had no choice but to shoot him. I had no choice but to kill him."

Probably couldn't figure out how to work a fist.

[Kaxter]

Records show he owned seven cars, including four Cadillacs and a Ferrari.

How does that relate in any way to the story? Am I being completely dense?

[Zundfolge]

I found myself sympathizing with the mobster.

I could maybe understand that, right up to the point where he shot a man who was running away in the back.

Where I come from, shooting a man in the back is the act of a coward. :scrutiny:

[carpettbaggerr]

So is telling a 67 year old man "F- - - you, I'll f- - - you in the ??? and I'll split you in two,"
Don't think this guy's gonna be missed.

[Pumpkinheaver]

If somebody told me they were gonna f me in the arse I probably would have knocked his teeth down his throat.

[twoblink]

Make me U.S.A. dictator for a week so I can fix some stuff!

Wondernine, if you are dictator for a week, just give me California for a week. There's a few "things" I need to fix in California..

I just love the effectiveness of laws on criminals.. Oh I forgot, 36,000 laws, he obeys none of them, but the 36,001.. yeah, he'll obey that one! :rolleyes:

The Sarah Brady logic amazes me to no ends.

[JohnKSa]

All I can think of is comedy.

One is a Far Side comic showing a cowboy standing over a dead man near a campfire with several other cowboys nearby and telling everyone "You are all my witnesses--he laughed when my marshmallow caught on fire."

Another is Monty Python's self-defense skit. "I had to shoot him, you saw it, he came at me with a banana."

And another Monty Python skit. "You're the same man!" "No I'm not, I'm his brother."

I guess I know what not to tell the cops if caught running from the scene of a shooting. "I'm not the guy." Yeah, that'll change their mind.

[Andrew Rothman]

Proposed new headline: "a--h--- shoots other a--h---."

[Apple a Day]

Who says .38s aren't effective?

[techmike]

I could maybe understand that, right up to the point where he shot a man who was running away in the back.

I know you shouldn't shoot a man for being rude....but I really have a hard time suffering rudeness. The mobster was clearly wrong to shoot the drunk...but on some level I almost understand it.

[gunsmith]

Circelli, who lived with his mom and grandma in Yonkers
Being that an armed society is a polite society, I'd say that he learned the hard way that cursing out "old guys" could be a mistake.
I've lived in Yonkers before,a God forsaken toilet!
When I lived in Florida I knew that "old people" can and do carry guns and
I tried to be polite as possible.

[Quartus]

Look at it this way:


The streets are better off by a count of TWO.

[rick458]

What is an Ambulette service?

[standingbear]

i dunno...a small meat wagon?

[Ex-Doc]

Ambulette (http://www.rohrerbussales.com/cat/Ambulette.html)

[rick458]

Thanks EX-DOC

[sm]

Couple of things come to mind. Just because a law is enacted, doesn't mean it is followed. There is the "law" and there is another law of man, regadless of what side of street one is on. The Code of honor, respect, courtesy runs deep. Military, Society, or Organized Crime...even the simple moonshiner had a code.

Poor anti's and sheeple never have understood this concept. Those on the other side of the street, actually like the enacted laws, history shows it hampers the honest citizen and well...organized crime does have a code to follow, if enacted laws makes it easier,or opens avenues...business is business.

IIRC Kennedy Family did quite well during Prohibition. :)

Not saying what occurred is right/wrong/otherwise...just some thoughts that came to mind.

[WT]

Lessons learned:

1. Be respectful of your elders.
2. Be courteous to all, especially strangers.
3. If you go looking for trouble, you will generally find more than you can handle.

[striker3]

Where I come from, shooting a man in the back is the act of a coward.

Why is that? I am not in any way condoning the man's actions, but if his point was to kill the guy, why not the shoot him in the back? He is just as dead as if he got shot in the chest. What does cowardice have to do with anything? Study any military tactics that you want, they will all say that it is better to attack an unsuspecting enemy, or a retreating enemy, because they pose less of a threat.

Courage has nothing to do with killing, the main goal in killing is to stay alive longer than your target.

[Marko Kloos]

Yeah, he'd be so much more courageous and honorable if he had shot the unarmed guy in the face instead. :rolleyes:

He initiated lethal force and shot an uarmed person without any threat to his life. That makes him dishonorable and cowardly by definition, regardless of where and how he shot his victim.

That's what you get when passion rules reason....

[Quartus]

Courage has nothing to do with killing, the main goal in killing is to stay alive longer than your target.

Well, yeah, IF your target is a threat to you.

[Drjones]

Where I come from, shooting a man in the back is the act of a coward.

What if he just raped your wife? Killed your son or daughter?

[carpettbaggerr]

Dishonorable and cowardly?
"F- - - you, I'll f- - - you in the ??? and I'll split you in two,"
Just how much of this should we put up with?

[timbo]

Well, the guy deserved something, but I don't think lead poisoning was it. Force-feeding him his own teeth would have been more appropriate.

[striker3]

Just how much of this should we put up with?

I hope that it takes a lot more than just words for your "Deadly Force Is Now Authorized" buzzer to go off...

[Quartus]

I think America was a better place when an insult could result in bloodshed.


If men are not permitted to defend their honor, why should we be surprised that we become a nation without honor?


(But I don't see anything honorable about shooting a man in the back, either.)

[dhoomonyou]

It is a terrible stupid thing , a loss of a life ,

HOWEVER......

Looks like some chlorine in the GENE pool..

[seeker_two]

Whatever happened to the good old-fashioned right hook?...:rolleyes:

[Drjones]

I think America was a better place when an insult could result in bloodshed.


If men are not permitted to defend their honor, why should we be surprised that we become a nation without honor?


Very well said and I agree completely.

[Marko Kloos]

Killing an unarmed man because you don't like what he said to you is not honorable...although some of the gangbangers you so dislike probably share the same opinions on the nature of honor, shooting people for "dissing" them.

I fail to see how this would be a better place if people were permitted to kill others for slights of their "honor". From where I sit, that attitude is part of the reason why inner-city 'hoods are such a bad place to be.

[Highland Ranger]

What is an Ambulette service?

As seen above it is essentially a bus for transporting the handicapped.

In NYC contracts are handed out by the city . . . .and the business is often run by the same folks who:

- sell vending and pinball machines

- handle the waste management (garbage) business

- sell the cheese to pizzareia's

:-)

[Quartus]

Killing an unarmed man because you don't like what he said to you is not honorable..


I see I need to clarify my point! I wasn't suggesting that this act was honorable - certainly shooting an unarmed (in the back, yet) is not. (Though I can think of circumstances where it might be.)

My point was addressing the more general concept of defending one's honor with force, even to the point of death. Dueling, for example.

The romantic (and sometimes true) idea of the Old West where calling a man a liar was likely to end in gunfire (but only if BOTH were armed) is a better model for society than our current attitudes.