Anti-Affirmative Action bake sales turning violent


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jimpeel
December 24, 2003, 03:57 PM
College Bake Sales Spark Conflict

Wed Dec 24, 4:56 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

By MELANTHIA MITCHELL, Associated Press Writer

SEATTLE - Campus bake sales by conservatives who oppose affirmative-action are cooking up discord — and complaints about restrictions on free speech.

Organizers charge white students $1 for a cookie, while blacks and other minorities pay 25 to 95 cents. Doughnuts are available for 50 cents to everyone except Asian Americans and whites, who cannot purchase them.

Unfair? So is affirmative action, organizers contend.

"It's a good example of what affirmative action does, judging people based on race," said Jason Chambers, president of the University of Washington College Republicans, which held a sale in October that shut down when some students began attacking the booth.

"People were upset. People did feel offended," said Anthony Rose, president of the UW Black Student Union. "You see something like that, you feel itemized."

In September, Southern Methodist University shut down a similar event by the Young Conservatives of Texas.

Similar bake sales have been held since February at the University of California-Berkeley, the University of Texas at Austin, Texas A&M University, Northwestern University near Chicago, the University of Michigan and Indiana University.

A conservative watchdog group in Philadelphia contends some universities are violating students' constitutional freedoms by restricting the protests.

"They cannot defend in public what they have done to the First Amendment at the University of Washington," said Thor Halvorssen, CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. "There is no question that the administration would never censor a group of students holding a peaceful protest in favor of affirmative action."

The UW College Republicans' Oct. 8 bake sale took place about the same time as a step performance by a traditionally black fraternity and drew plenty of attention.

Chambers said students engaged in a couple hours of good, heated discussion, until some began yelling and tearing down signs, even throwing cookies at members of the conservative group.

"I really thought that everyone on campus could maintain their composure and have a civil discussion without getting violent. I was really surprised that it went that far," Chambers said.

UW spokesman Robert Roseth said the administration had nothing to do with the shutdown. The group's members dismantled the booth voluntarily after the office of student affairs asked them if they wished to take it down, he said.

Rose, a 20-year-old junior majoring in American Ethnic Studies, backs up the university's account.

"It was for their own safety," Rose said. "They shut themselves down."

In a letter responding to the melee, Board of Regents President Jerry Grinstein expressed disappointment with the sale.

"The statements of the UW College Republicans in putting on a bake sale about affirmative action were tasteless, divisive and hurtful to many members of the university community," he wrote.

In the incident at Southern Methodist University, organizers described the event as a bake sale — not an anti-affirmative-action protest — in their application for event space, said Jim Caswell, vice president for student affairs.

Had the university known it was a demonstration, a more appropriate location would have been chosen, Caswell said. A staff member thought the friction was likely to escalate, and stopped the event, he said.

"I think it's important to note that freedom of expression was not the issue, it was the hostile environment created by the Young Conservatives' failure to fully disclose their intentions," Caswell said.

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Glock Glockler
December 24, 2003, 04:20 PM
Had the university known it was a demonstration, a more appropriate location would have been chosen

Oh, I'm sure, probably one a few miles away where no one would be. Can't let opposing thoughts get out, now can we?

Caswell said. A staff member thought the friction was likely to escalate, and stopped the event, he said.

Why not just call a few cops and let the chips fall where they may? If those thugs assaults someone they should be arrested, but they should not be shut down because of the inability of someone else to control themselves and refrain from breaking the law.

I think it's important to note that freedom of expression was not the issue, it was the hostile environment created by the Young Conservatives' failure to fully disclose their intentions

Maybe your BS racist programs are what's causing hostility and division, not my acts which are bringing attention to it.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
December 24, 2003, 04:20 PM
It's amazing how closely this situation mirriors what goes on in the "real world" outside of the Universities.

In the office where I work, the flyers and e-mails announcing the office Christmass party clearly state that the secretarial staff would be charged $14 to attend, and the rest of us charged $24.

The secretarial staff is about 100% Black, and the rest of us about 90% White.

The average secretary in the office probably makes about half again as much as the average entry-level non-secretarial worker. So their income is actually about mid-range for the whole office. And they have overtime available to them at time-and-a-half rates that us salaried folks don't have.

There's absolutely no fairness to this. It's just assumed that since these people are Black they must be needy or have less than the rest of us.

They pressure us constantly to contribute money to gift-cards to the secretarys also. Even to the extent of listing expected minimums.

I have yet to contribute a penny or attend one of their Christmass (shakedown) parties.

Mark Tyson
December 24, 2003, 04:22 PM
Rose, a 20-year-old junior majoring in American Ethnic Studies, backs up the university's account.

Ethnic studies?

HankB
December 24, 2003, 04:40 PM
. . . some began yelling and tearing down signs, even throwing cookies at members of the conservative group. No surprise here. Those who favor racist polices - like "affirmative action" - are unlikely to respect the rights of others.

makarov1
December 24, 2003, 05:04 PM
It sounds as if University administrators have already decided that the bake sales will turn violent sooner rather than later. They just assume that the minority "customers" at the bake sale will not exercise self-control and attack a vendor. I can't help but notice.....the soft bigotry of low expectations. Guess what folks, when the bar is lowered, performance suffers. Low expectations from the PC crowd are probably more damaging than any overt racism. From Elementary school, through High School and beyond, the bar is set low for minorities, and it shows.

Zundfolge
December 24, 2003, 05:15 PM
I think it's important to note that freedom of expression was not the issue, it was the hostile environment created by the Young Conservatives' failure to fully disclose their intentions

Hostile environment created by the Young Conservatives?!

Thats the same as saying "that girl deserved to be raped for going out in public alone" :fire:


Its the so-called "tolerant" liberals who have created the "hostile enviroment".

Jeff Thomas
December 24, 2003, 06:21 PM
Brilliant idea ... would love to see such bake sales proliferate. Excellent way of making the point ... and coincidentally showing "progressives" and "liberals" for the violent types they really are at heart.

Regards from TX

nemesis
December 24, 2003, 06:25 PM
We will continue to endure these problems and protests as long as uppity white people have these notions that they are somehow due the same rights as minorities.

Standing Wolf
December 24, 2003, 06:51 PM
Leftists can dish it out, but they can never seem to take it.

MikeK
December 24, 2003, 07:03 PM
Where's the ACLU?

MrAcheson
December 24, 2003, 07:11 PM
Where's the ACLU?

The ACLU only gets involved when Conservatives treat Liberals like this. Not the other way around.

carpettbaggerr
December 25, 2003, 02:18 AM
"I think it's important to note that freedom of expression was not the issue, it was the hostile environment created by the Young Conservatives' failure to fully disclose their intentions," Caswell said.

Yeah, those Freedom Riders caused quite a few hostile envrionments too, didn't they.

Andrew Rothman
December 25, 2003, 03:38 AM
The ACLU only gets involved when Conservatives treat Liberals like this. Not the other way around.

Patently and demonstrably untrue.

Do you suppose maybe the Young Conservatives might not turn to the ACLU?

The ACLU supports all free speech, not just liberal free speech.

I'm tired of seeing kneejerk responses like this. Get the facts.

I'mSpartacus!
December 25, 2003, 05:05 AM
I can guess which side the DNC and Howard Dean would take on this issue.

USAFA
December 25, 2003, 07:01 AM
"I think it's important to note that freedom of expression was not the issue, it was the hostile environment created by the Young Conservatives' failure to fully disclose their intentions," Caswell said.
Free expression has to be approved first, right?
Duh, what were THEY thinking?

Sean Smith
December 25, 2003, 07:51 AM
I guess we have to list physical attack under typical "progressive" tactics nowadays when they are confronted with an idea they dislike. ;)

clubsoda22
December 25, 2003, 08:11 AM
I don't get it, if we held a bake sale like this at my college we'd have the entire community there buying discount baked goods. This really has to be done in an area where minorities aren't ashamed of taking affirmative action.

Nightfall
December 25, 2003, 08:26 AM
Clever way of getting the point across.

So why can't we all just pay the dollar? What's so racist about equality?

Smoke
December 25, 2003, 08:35 AM
UW spokesman Robert Roseth said the administration had nothing to do with the shutdown. The group's members dismantled the booth voluntarily after the office of student affairs asked them if they wished to take it down, he said.

Isn't the office of student affairss part of the administration?
I've had cop ask me if I wished to go home....and it was implied it would be best if I did...how did they do their asking?


Smoke

greyhound
December 25, 2003, 09:14 AM
"People were upset. People did feel offended," said Anthony Rose, president of the UW Black Student Union. "You see something like that, you feel itemized."

Itemized?:rolleyes:

Fear of "offending somebody" will be the death of this nation.

I wonder if in 1775 somebody was worried about "offending" King George by rising against him? (Bad example I know, but...)

feedthehogs
December 25, 2003, 10:22 AM
People don't like to be reminded of the real truth of the matter.

Its about time conservatives went on the offensive instead of always playing defense.
You can't win a defensive game.

Waitone
December 25, 2003, 12:27 PM
I just love "bristles first" political actions.

longeyes
December 25, 2003, 12:55 PM
See the future, in microcosm. This could get hairy, folks, when The Great Silence finally stops.

Jeff Thomas
December 25, 2003, 03:56 PM
Mpayne, I'll respectfully disagree with you. I've seen a pro-RKBA author blackballed by the ACLU because his work was featured in a magazine they didn't like. The work was a technical piece re: law.

Anyone who really gets to know the ACLU finds out they are a liberal organization through and through, and can only count to nine on the Bill of Rights.

I agree on the offense vs. defense comments ... liberals need to receive a dose of their own medicine, and have their illogic shoved up their collective noses a bit more often.

Regards from TX

spartacus2002
December 25, 2003, 06:57 PM
One day, white America will get damn sick and tired of reverse racism and of minorities rubbing their SVS (Special Victim Status) in their face. That day might be a violent, ugly day.

Glock Glockler
December 25, 2003, 07:00 PM
The ACLU has neve been a fan of the 10th Amendment either.

MarkDido
December 25, 2003, 08:34 PM
Shooting from the hip here, so don't have exact names, dates, etc... BUT

When the black gentleman was dragged to death behind the pickup truck, the ACLU screamed "Hate Crime!"

When Matthew Shepard, a gay male was tied to the fence and left there to die, the ACLU screamed "Hate Crime!"

When 2 gay men kidnapped, repeatedly sodomized and then murdered a white male juvenile, the ACLU put their fingers in the ears and screamed "LA LA LA LA LA I can't hear you!"

CleverNickname
December 26, 2003, 12:08 AM
MarkDido, the black guy was James Byrd (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=James+Byrd+Jasper&btnG=Google+Search), and the juvenile was Jesse Dirkhising (http://www.google.com/search?q=jesse+dirkhising&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0).

Amazingly enough :rolleyes:, a search for "Jesse Dirkhising" (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Jesse+Dirkhising&num=10&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=aclu.org&safe=images) on aclu.org brings up 0 results, whereas the same search for "James Byrd" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=James+Byrd+site%3Aaclu.org&btnG=Google+Search) brings up 17 and "Matthew Shepard" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=Matthew+Shepard+site%3Aaclu.org&btnG=Google+Search) brings up 35.

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 12:26 AM
That day might be a violent, ugly day.And the innocent will be caught in the crossfire because they will be wearing the wrong "uniform".

JimP
December 26, 2003, 10:17 AM
The ACLU is an extreme leftist organization dedicated to the destruction of custom, ethics, morals and values in our society. We need to establish an anti-ACLU group to ensure equal protection of the law...
They are a pathetic parody of all that is wrong with libs.

DigitalWarrior
December 27, 2003, 04:05 PM
The ACLU is a stupid leftist group of people of color who always stick up for leftists (the wrong side).

Which is why they goto bat for the KKK.
http://www.laaclu.org/News/2000/aclu_files_suit_kkk_protect_free_.htm

I think that they just always go to bat for what they percieve as the weak side (the side that needs help).

CleverNickname
December 27, 2003, 05:48 PM
ACLU defends Nazi's right to burn down ACLU headquarters (http://www.theonion.com/onion3211/acludefends.html)

:D

cracked butt
December 27, 2003, 09:17 PM
Maybe this should be seen as a failure of the University? Instead of pushing ethnic and minority studies, the University would be better to push business degrees. A black woman could have bought out the entire stock of cookies for $0.25 a piece to shut down the protest, then turned around and sold them for $0.50 a piece and make a bit of a profit. Its the difference between a university teaching people what to think versus how to think.:rolleyes:

geekWithA.45
December 28, 2003, 01:11 AM
Chambers said students engaged in a couple hours of good, heated discussion, until some began yelling and tearing down signs, even throwing cookies at members of the conservative group


Hmmm...the Leftist's lose their cool and resort to violence, and the conservatives get blamed.

Nice.

AZRickD
December 28, 2003, 01:58 AM
Here is an ACLU position paper I found by doing a google on "campus speech codes" +ACLU

http://archive.aclu.org/library/pbp16.html
Many universities, under pressure to respond to the concerns of those who are the objects of hate, have adopted codes or policies prohibiting speech that offends any group based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.

That's the wrong response, well-meaning or not.
However, note this passage.... "offensive speech?"Q: I have the impression that the ACLU spends more time and money defending the rights of bigots than supporting the victims of bigotry!!??

A: Not so. Only a handful of the several thousand cases litigated by the national ACLU and its affiliates every year involves offensive speech. Most of the litigation, advocacy and public education work we do preserves or advances the constitutional rights of ordinary people. But it's important to understand that the fraction of our work that does involve people who've engaged in bigoted and hurtful speech is very important:

Defending First Amendment rights for the enemies of civil liberties and civil rights means defending it for you and me. So, which college speech code cases has the ACLU brought to court for the freedom-minded?

Rick

TheEgg
December 29, 2003, 02:10 PM
"The statements of the UW College Republicans in putting on a bake sale about affirmative action were tasteless, divisive and hurtful to many members of the university community," he wrote.

OK, now I get it. At the UW, free speech is verboten if it might be tasteless, divisive, or hurtful.

Yes, of course, NOW I understand -- and to think I have wasted all these years thinking that the first amendment was especially needed to protect the speech of those whose opinions go against the majority or those in authority -- how stupid of me.

:banghead:

Drjones
December 29, 2003, 02:37 PM
Says a lot about the respective people involved when liberals resort to physical violence in reaction to ideas that run contrary to their own.

I don't think I've read a similar case of conservatives resorting to violence against liberals.

But what do I know...

Drjones
December 29, 2003, 02:43 PM
I also want to add that I agree completely with all the anti-ACLU statements.

They are an evil organization pushing their own agenda.

Orbital-Burn
December 30, 2003, 02:38 AM
.

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
December 30, 2003, 03:35 AM
Orbital Burn wrote:

I do realize that we are supposed to be accepting of all people, but doesn't this story illustrait that the white supremists are generally correct, the majority of other races belong in cages with all the other animals?

give evidence if I'm wrong, I always seek 'illumination'


I'm reluctant to dignify this with an answer, however the answer would be no, the White supremicists are full of sh*t.

As an example, Asian Americans in general are involved in crime and violent crime at a much lower rate than are whites. Same holds true for Jewish Americans.

There are also white-European groups, we Irish Americans in particular, who suffered from a level of alcohol and drug addiction, crime and violent crime in the century after the mass arrivals that is equivalent to what the inner city Blacks and Hispanics are currently experiencing. Of course we Irish weren't considered "White" untill about 1900. :)

Rent the movie "The Gangs of New York" for a good fictionalized treatment.

Drjones
December 30, 2003, 03:26 PM
I do realize that we are supposed to be accepting of all people, but doesn't this story illustrait that the white supremists are generally correct, the majority of other races belong in cages with all the other animals?

give evidence if I'm wrong, I always seek 'illumination'

Um, NO.

There is trash to be found in all races and there is treasure to be found in all races. Some of the best and brightest engineers, doctors, programmers, etc are East Indian and Asian.

Asians, because most Asian cultures so highly value work, discipline and education, are generally very well educated. UC Berkeley is approximately 50% Asian, and there are some UC's (University of California) that may even be higher. Berkeley is, BTW, one of the most difficult UC's to get accepted to.

Read anything by Thomas Sowell. He has been a faculty member at some of the best universities in this country and is currently a member of the Hoover Institution at Stanford. He is an incredibly intelligent man who happens to be black. (He's also quite a conservative libertarian, which is why he appeals so much to me. :) )

American blacks could learn so much from some of their African brethren. The Africans I have met in America (as in people actually from Africa) are intelligent, hard-working, and as sweet and nice as you could wish for. Sadly, the same is not generally true for the majority of blacks in America, thanks to liberal "leadership." I am by no means trying to say that I have never met good blacks in America (I just gave an example of one Mr. Sowell) but I am speaking in general terms.

Mexicans; well, of course there are good and bad. I've heard stories (that strangely enough aren't widely reported...I wonder why... :rolleyes: ) about mexicans killing babies so that they can stuff them full of drugs to smuggle across the border.

Then there are mexicans who truly want nothing but a better life for themselves and their families, though that doesn't excuse the fact that they may come to America illegally.

If I had to pick people to "put in a cage," it would be liberals of all colors. The ones I'm thinking of primarily are white, black, and mexican. White liberals tend to be the most viscious, self-loathing, self-hating, white-hating pathetic excuses for human beings that have ever been created. I'm talking about the more extreme ones like chomsky and his ilk.

There are, of course, many anti-white types to be found among mexicans and blacks, but you can thank their respective "leaders" for their attitudes, and white liberals are definitely at the forefront of fomenting racial hatred, along with bustamante, farrakhan, jackson, etc.

Why hate people of color simply because of their color when its so much easier and more fun to just hate liberals? Besides, if you don't hate white liberals just because they're white, you are missing one of your most dangerous enemies.

To sum up, skin color is a poor way to classify human beings, as it really has no bearing at all on how a person thinks or who they are in general.

To believe otherwise is to be a racist, or as they are otherwise known, a true modern American liberal.

I am an equal opportunity hater. :)

mountainclmbr
December 30, 2003, 03:53 PM
I have talked to many liberals in an attempt to understand why they think the way they do. It has been futile. The victim mentality usually seems to be present, even though the victim-causing events are typically caused by their own bad decisions. I believe that this country is doomed if bad decisions are rewarded and good decisions are punished.

Don Gwinn
December 30, 2003, 06:29 PM
Orbital burn, you're hurting my head. How does a rampage by a few college students tar an entire race of people? Are white people drunken trash because a lot of honkey frat boys like to drink grain alcohol out of mop buckets and pass out on neighbors' lawns? Sheesh.

DrJones, I could be crazy, here, but it looked like you believe those stories about "Mexicans" killing babies to smuggle drugs. I can't prove that doesn't happen, but doesn't it sound like the sort of thing racists tend to make up? Remember when white Christians were always told that Jews kidnap and murder Christian babies so their blood can be eaten in evil Jewish rituals?
(Well, neither do I, really, but those stories were told and still are in the Arab world.)

Thinking it through logically, it seems to me that there are much easier ways to smuggle drugs than inside a dead baby.

1. Who the hell carries a dead baby around? That's suspicious right there. They could use the dead baby to simulate a live baby, but that could be accomplished by wrapping the drugs in a blanket, too, with a lot less fuss and baby-murdering.

2. If you WERE caught crossing the border with what appeared to be a dead baby, what's the first thing your captors would do? That's right! They'd call an ambulance, which would take your dead baby to the hospital, where the doctors would certainly realize the dead baby was full of cocaine even if the paramedics hadn't.

It's ridiculous. Of course, ridiculous things do happen, but I'd need a very good source before I'd believe that one.

Obiwan
December 30, 2003, 06:47 PM
There are good...bad...and truly evil people in every racial/ethnic group

This bake sale was a brilliant attempt at showing how distastful quotas can be...when they are not painted a pretty color and called equality.

It is sad that the group, at large, couldn't all have a nice laugh about it and maybe even learn something from it.

The ACLU...and the NAACP are two of the more racist organizations that exist.

I swear....I have seenstatements by both that are more deragatory towards minorities than anything I have heard from the "crackers at large".

I remember when they were acusing gun manufacturers and beer companies of targeting blacks in the inner city....I believe it was Detroit.

The statements issued by the NAACP made it sound like those poor black folk didn't know no better and were being horribly manipuilated by "the man"

Had they made the same statement about big dumb white guys I would have been offended!

If anyone tries to insinuate that a minority is just not as smart as the the rest of us...they will be villified...labeled as racists.

But if a school allows lower scores for that same minority so they can "pass the test"...they are considered progressive...

Go figure!

Matt G
December 30, 2003, 06:48 PM
doesn't this story illustrait that the white supremists are generally correct, the majority of other races belong in cages with all the other animals?Hunh. That's an interesting perspective. Where did you pick that up? As someone who is employed to put nasty people in cages to keep them away from the decent people in our society, I can tell you that I haven't come to that conclusion. Actually, I arrest more white folk doing bad things (agg assault, deadly conduct, assault family violence, cooking meth, sexual assault of children, robbery, burglary, car theft, vandalism, animal cruelty,etc, etc, etc...) than any other race. And you know what we've learned? Statistically, you're FAR more likely to be a victim of a violent crime perpetrated by your own race, than of the other ones. So fear not! You won't even have to put all those "non-white races" into a cage to be safe; they're not the ones that were going to do you wrong!

rock jock
December 30, 2003, 07:00 PM
I do realize that we are supposed to be accepting of all people, but doesn't this story illustrait that the white supremists are generally correct, the majority of other races belong in cages with all the other animals?
No, it only illustrates what the whire supremicists have always failed to grasp - character is is a function of one's philosophy, belief system and culture, not their genes.

Drjones
December 30, 2003, 07:09 PM
DrJones, I could be crazy, here, but it looked like you believe those stories about "Mexicans" killing babies to smuggle drugs. I can't prove that doesn't happen, but doesn't it sound like the sort of thing racists tend to make up?

I have a VERY reliable contact in the media industry. I will say no more.

As to the rest of your post Don, it doesn't make any sense. How one could tell at a glance if a baby was recently deceased or simply sleeping, I don't know. I don't think its really possible to tell unless you examine it.

And I highly doubt that babies and their carriages/bedding/etc are all that well inspected anyplace but the airport.

Matt G:

Statistically, you're FAR more likely to be a victim of a violent crime perpetrated by your own race, than of the other ones

Actually, the opposite is true.

In ALL the studies and statistics I've seen, blacks are far more likely to choose white victims for various crimes like rape, mugging, robbery.

Here's a link: http://www.amren.com/sheehan.htm

This is just one of the sources I have seen.

jimpeel
December 31, 2003, 03:58 AM
Before linking to a site that has statistics that support your contentions, you would do well to check out the credentials of those who are making those claims.

Have you seen the home page of this site at http://www.amren.com/index.html ?

Have you watched the videos at http://www.amren.com/jared2000.ram , http://www.amren.com/jaredlatifah.ram , and http://www.amren.com/bettonight.asx ?

Have you listened to the interview at http://www.amren.com/turner2.ram ? The show he was on http://www.halturnershow.com/ states this at their webpage:Don't expect "fairness" or "balance;" that's not what this show is about. This program focuses on issues, news and opinions that the mainstream will not talk about: Black crime; Diseased, uneducated aliens slithering into the country illegally; Degenerate pervert homosexuals; society-wrecking cultural-elitist jews; and much, much more! (Bolding theirs)

On this show, you'll hear Hal and other regular, straight white people, telling it like it is . . .and making the sacred cows of the liberal-left, run for cover!

I have viewed and listened to all of the above; and I'll say no more. Let others form their own opinions.

You would do better to post stats from the FBI Uniform Crime Report (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm), Bureau of Justice Statistics (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dtdata.htm) , FedStats (http://www.fedstats.gov/), or Statistical Abstract of the United States (http://www.census.gov/stat_abstract/).

There is a veritable cornucopia of links to statistical sites at http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/stsoc.html.

4570Rick
December 31, 2003, 04:12 AM
Maybe this should be seen as a failure of the University? Instead of pushing ethnic and minority studies, the University would be better to push business degrees. A black woman could have bought out the entire stock of cookies for $0.25 a piece to shut down the protest, then turned around and sold them for $0.50 a piece and make a bit of a profit. Its the difference between a university teaching people what to think versus how to think.

You do understand. :) Take 2 cookies and call Walter Williams in the morning. :D

Drjones
December 31, 2003, 05:16 AM
Thanks for the info, Jim.

However, as I said, I have seen other studies that agree with AmRen that are not so blatantly racist.

Regardless, I do believe that the stats on the link above are based on govt data.

Don Gwinn
December 31, 2003, 11:20 AM
DrJones, I'm not going to argue all week on this. You have a source, that's fine, but since you won't reveal your source or point us to another, you have to understand that you effectively have no source. You have no way of confirming your belief in this wild rumor, so you'll have to understand if other people are not convinced. There were probably people who believed the baby-sacrifice nonsense about Jews because Henry Ford, a Great American and Pillar of the Community, would not have spent his own money to publish the Protocols of the Elders of Zion if he hadn't been sure they were true.

Only they weren't true, of course, as acknowledged by everyone except the kind of rabid racists you've already cited as your sources once in this thread.

I know it's tempting to turn the world on its ear, but it's generally a better idea to tread carefully and be sure of your ground.

As for this:
As to the rest of your post Don, it doesn't make any sense. How one could tell at a glance if a baby was recently deceased or simply sleeping, I don't know. I don't think its really possible to tell unless you examine it.
We're getting bogged down in details, now, but you really don't think people can tell dead babies from sleeping babies? I don't share your point of view. I think my reasons are pretty well self-evident, so I'm not going to spend a lot of time on them.

You still haven't addressed the main thrust of my argument, except by asserting that it didn't make sense. ;)
That was that Ockham's Razor applied to the whole concept. It would be infinitely simpler, easier, neater, and less soul-damning to wrap your cocaine in baby blankets than it would be to murder an actual baby, gut it, and fill it with cocaine. . . . . and then wrap it in the same blanket. Again, I'm not saying it's impossible that some smuggler went through an elaborate and horrible plan when all he had to do was something cheap, simple and morally superior. In general, drug dealers tend to be people who wanted to get rich and couldn't do it legitimately; often this regrettable lack is the result of stupidity.

However, when you have no evidence, either way, it makes a lot more sense to assume that the simplest and most rational explanation is the correct one.
Although most people agree that Ockham's Razor is just common sense, few people actually apply it regularly. Preconcieved notions get in the way and cause people to leap over the simplest, most rational explanations to the fantastic--as long as the fantastic fits their preconceptions.

Correia
December 31, 2003, 02:19 PM
Dr.Jones, your reliable source in the media wouldn't happen to be Lorenzo Carcheterra? Reporter turned crappy novelist, where the cocaine stuffed babies were part of the plot of his horrid novel Apaches?

Possibly the worst book I have ever read.

spartacus2002
January 1, 2004, 10:59 AM
At William and Mary, the Sons of Liberty held one of these bake sales. Unfortuately, one of the freshmen running the booth had the supremely bad judgment to be playing "Ghettopoly" with his buds at the booth, which did not help the public's perception.

Obiwan
January 1, 2004, 01:21 PM
Some wonder why the secret service segregates the attendees at the Presidents speeches.

Look what happened at a bake sale!

Sven
January 2, 2004, 02:41 AM
DrJones: http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/deadbaby.htm

Ky Larry
January 2, 2004, 09:16 AM
Nightfall asked:

"What's so racist about equality?"


Nothing. But what they want is equality only when it's convienient. The rest of the time they want preferential treatment. That's what causes the conflict.

LynnMassGuy
January 2, 2004, 05:08 PM
Conservative college students? Well at least that's a good thing. I wasn't sure there was such a thing. It warms my heart.

Balog
January 2, 2004, 05:17 PM
That Amren stuff sounds suspiciously like the Turner Diaries. :barf:

Jonesy9
January 2, 2004, 05:46 PM
I spoke to some young republicans who were in town for a meeting last fall. we talked about the AA bake sales, it was the first I had heard of them. I don't remember the exact words but they welcomed violence as it would bring more publicity. looks like they were right.

jimpeel
January 2, 2004, 07:49 PM
Go to http://www.halturnershow.com/archive.htm , which is the radio program on which the AmRen founder appeared, and note the subject list of the archives. The Turner Diaries is among them.

nico
January 3, 2004, 03:45 AM
is anyone else bothered by the fact that this guy calls himself a conservative?

The Undertoad
January 3, 2004, 03:53 AM
Sparticus2002 -

I wasn't going to mention that debacle. :o I wasn't there, I had a field trip... I'm glad I missed it. I agree that it was very stupid and provocative to be playing that. I did go to the ensuing debate the next week... ::uhoh:

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