[10-Ring]

I'm looking for practical experience in regards to the use of frame mounted lights. How is the gun's balance affected? How dirty does the light get w/ ALOT of practice? Does the light itself work loose w/ recoil? After shooting, does the light clean easily? Are there special precautions you have to take prior/during/ or after you shoot?

[Erick Gelhaus]

Have had two different lights on my 1911 and have had lights on my shotgun & carbines.

How is the gun's balance affected?
Almost like having a comp there. A little heavier in the muzzle than before.

How dirty does the light get w/ ALOT of practice?
A bit, it's not bad if one cleans it every so often.

Does the light itself work loose w/ recoil?
I haven't experienced that in four years of lights on my pistols.

After shooting, does the light clean easily?
Yes, I use my regular cleaner (MP7) and it works just fine.

Are there special precautions you have to take prior/during/ or after you shoot?
Not with the pistol. With the shotgun, I pull the light unless I'm doing low-light training - it's a recoil issue.

HTH

Erick

[earl_simmons]

Verify for yourself that your pistol/light combination functions properly. After reading countless glowing reports of the Insight Technologies/Streamlight M3, I discovered that my Glock 23 would repeatedly malfunction with the light attached. Assuming you know how to properly use the light against the opposition, the only notable precaution I can think of is to be careful about unintentional light activation when you are transporting the weapon with the light attached - position it so that objects can't press against the switch, or remove the batteries.

[Plan-B]

As I mentioned in another thread, my brother has a Surefire tac light mounted on his fullsize USP 9mm. He actually shoots with the light attached regularly since he wants to be sure he's practicing the way he would have to handle the gun if someone broke into the house. After about 20-30 rounds the burnt powder on the lens makes the light slightly dimmer, but being a Surfire, it's still painfully bright. The balance is obviously more front heavy and I do notice a significant loss in felt recoil with it on. He cleans it by wiping it down with a little Hoppes No. 9 and hasn't had any problems with it so far.

[10-Ring]

Plan-B, how is the USP 9 after 100 or 200 rounds? I typically shoot 200+ rounds or 9mm or 45 acp per session and was just curious if that would make any difference re: wear & tear on the light, mount or the gun.

[10-Ring]

OOOPs, too much caffeine!:banghead:

[Skunkabilly]

Yeah yeah you just want your guns to look like mine :D

Let's take pictures when you get your taclight. Get the Surefire Millenium. Overkill overkill!

[10-Ring]

:neener:

Skunk - I'm still trying to decide if I need a weapon mounted light since I already have a Mag light at the ready on nightstand...
decisions, decisions :banghead:

[Plan-B]

He normally shoots 200-300 rounds per session as well, but only about 50 of that is with the light attached and on. The light is holding up well, still looks new. I'd say the light has seen roughly 500 rounds pass through it's beam.

[10-Ring]

Plan B, is your brother's SF light a Nitrolon? I've been looking at that particular model for my USP 45...

[Skunkabilly]

Have you checked with SMGLee? Doesn't he have NIGHT VISION for cryin' out loud? :D

[Plan-B]

Nitrolon, yup. I mentioned in another thread (don't remember which one) that the rail adapter that comes with the light is a bit clunky in the way it attaches. It uses 4 hex screws and clamps to the front of the trigger guard. Looking at the photos the GG&G adapter looks as though it may be a more streamlined mount.

[JohnKSa]

Just a thought...

Is it a good idea to point a loaded gun at something to see what it is?

Seems like some gun rules are being violated...

[10-Ring]

Skunk, SMG is one w/ ALL da toys :what: Figures he'd have night vision :rolleyes:

[Skunkabilly]

Is it a good idea to point a loaded gun at something to see what it is?

If you live by yourself, you hear a crash, and you didn't invite anyone over....

[JohnKSa]

If you live by yourself, you hear a crash, and you didn't invite anyone over....

If you're never supposed to point a gun at something you don't want to shoot, then it follows that you should never point a gun at anything until you're sure what it is.

If you really need a light, and the light is on your gun then you're CONSTANTLY pointing your gun at things to identify them. You're CONSTANTLY pointing your gun at things without knowing what they are. That's just the reverse of what should happen--you should identify a threat and THEN point your gun.

For your scenario, it could be the maintenance man about that dishwasher problem in your apartment--he thought you were out tonight. Or maybe you did invite someone over and forgot. Or maybe one of your friends is playing a joke on you.

These may be a bit far fetched, but they DO happen...

Gun mounted lights sound like a great idea for situations where you can honestly assume that everyone and everything is a threat, but outside of the military, it's hard for me to see how that could really happen--even then, you have guys on your side who won't like it if you point a gun at them to find out who they are.

[earl_simmons]

You don't need to point a 6v light anywhere near a person to generate enough illumination in a typical room for identification purposes.

[M1911]

If you really need a light, and the light is on your gun then you're CONSTANTLY pointing your gun at things to identify them. You're CONSTANTLY pointing your gun at things without knowing what they are. That's just the reverse of what should happen--you should identify a threat and THEN point your gun.Nope. A flash on the ceiling or floor will bounce enough light to do so. Besides, a light on your gun does not mean you can't also have a second light.

And when you go searching with a flashlight, surely you don't leave it on the whole time, do you <shudder>?

[JohnKSa]

A flash on the ceiling or floor will bounce enough light to do so. Besides, a light on your gun does not mean you can't also have a second light.
M1911,

Is that the way you really plan to use a gun mounted light? I thought part of the value of having a bright light was to be able to blind the person during the ID process to try to prevent aggressive action on their part.

And, if you're going to carry a separate light why would you want to hang one off the front of the gun as well, making it less "wieldy" and harder to holster?

As far as turning it on and off all the time, I have a hard time adjusting to intervals of extreme bright followed by darkness. End result of that kind of on/off stuff is that I can't really see well when the light is on OR off. So, I leave it off until I need it and then leave it on after that.

earl,

I carry a flash in my off hand and hold it away and forward of my body so that if it the light draws fire it won't be centered on me and my firearm.

I also like having the option of using the light as a club without the possibility of damaging the gun it's attached to.

[M1911]

Is that the way you really plan to use a gun mounted light? I thought part of the value of having a bright light was to be able to blind the person during the ID process to try to prevent aggressive action on their part.There's a difference between searching and fighting. When searching, you DO NOT leave the light on constantly -- doing so would make you way too vulnerable. Once you have identified and are engaging the threat, yes, I would point the light straight at the person. I certainly don't count on it to blind them. If it does great. And, if you're going to carry a separate light why would you want to hang one off the front of the gun as well, making it less "wieldy" and harder to holster?I don't carry a gun with a mounted light, but am considering adding a mounted light to my home defense gun. As far as turning it on and off all the time, I have a hard time adjusting to intervals of extreme bright followed by darkness. End result of that kind of on/off stuff is that I can't really see well when the light is on OR off. So, I leave it off until I need it and then leave it on after that.When moving, I don't turn it on and off. I just flash it, bouncing the light off the ceiling, floor, or walls. That's how I was trained at SigArms Academy. It won't significantly reduce your night vision, because the duration of the flashes is too short.

[Onslaught]

you should identify a threat and THEN point your gun. Since we are ONLY talking about civilian home defense scenarios in this post, I HOPE you wouldn't illuminate a threat in your home without also having your weapon pointed at them!!!(finger off trigger of course) That's just like saying "ready-set-DRAW!" Also, any dishwasher repairman who's coming over at 3:00am deserves to have a pistol pointed at him. ;) I'm quite sure that 10-Ring isn't going to be sitting in total darkness at 6:00pm or any reasonable hour that the janitor would come a'calling.
And, if you're going to carry a separate light why would you want to hang one off the front of the gun as well, making it less "wieldy" and harder to holster? At 3:00am, I'm not wearing a holster, and neither is 10-ring, I hope :D
I carry a flash in my off hand and hold it away and forward of my body so that if it the light draws fire it won't be centered on me and my firearm. That's OOOOLD school LEO thinking from the late 60's. Career criminals know that trick, and will aim to the left. On the other hand, nervous, inexperienced, or cracked out baddies aren't going to aim at all, so you're kidding yourself to think those bullets won't be flying all over a 5 foot radius of your flashlight... Unless your arm is 6 feet long, you're tiring yourself out needlessly ;)

Bottom line though, you're talking police tactics, while we're talking HD tactics. They are different, and I agree that a beat cop probably doesn't need a weapon mounted light.

For those of us with a weapon mounted nightstand pistol, it means that we only have to grab one thing off the nightstand. I do keep a flashlight on my nightstand for "non-tactical" needs, and I can't tell you how many times I've reached for it in the dark and knocked it off onto the floor. Can't happen with the UTL attached to my USP.

It also means we can hold the phone and dial 911 with our weak hand, but still have a light at the ready with our strong hand.

If you're awakened in the middle of the night by a breaking window, you won't need your flashlight to search around. Your night vision is at it's best because your eyes are already adjusted. It's your house, so you know every nook and cranny, every creak and squeak, and you can find a figure in the darkness with no problems. The flashlight is merely to see the face, make hands visible to check for weapons, etc.

Technically though... If you don't have children in another room to get to and protect, and it's just you (or you and significant other) in that one room, you're SUPPOSED to stay crouched beside the bed, keep HD weapon trained at the door in case the intruder comes into your room and dial 911. House clearing is actually considered a no-no for Civilian home defense.

If you've got people crashing into your house at 3:00am that might possibly be "non-combatants", then maybe you should have a seperate light and pistol. But 10-ring knows his house and his situation better than anyone.

Used correctly, there is NOTHING wrong with a weapon mounted flashlight for Home Defense scenarios.

[JohnKSa]

Career criminals know that trick, and will aim to the left.
All RIGHT! I'm left handed... LOL! J/K

Seriously, if holding the light away from the body isn't done anymore then why are the criminals still aiming to the left? And, if they really do aim to the left, why haven't they all been killed by left-handed cops and homeowners.

I can see some utility to mounting lights on long guns--it's hard to work it any other way since you don't have a hand free for the light. Pistols are another story. Even if I had a pistol mounted light, I would still want a separate flash. There are lots times (like EVERY time I go to investigate a noise outside) when I would like to hide the gun (holstered or just held behind me) and still be able to see who's in the front yard, what just knocked over the trash can, etc.

Which gets us back to wanting to see things without pointing a gun at them...

[earl_simmons]

Every method has substantial advantages and disadvantages. As long as my "night-fighting" method is better than the bad guy's, I figure I'll be alright. And to see things outside my home, I use wall-mounted exterior lights. You would be particularly vulnerable walking around outside with a light, handheld or weapon-mounted.