[HLC03]

Hey guys quick question,

When I was 16 or 17 (I am 28 now) my mother had me 302ed (i think that is where the state of Pennsylvania commits you involuntarily to a mental institution). I think at some point I did eventually sign a paper to 307 or whatever myself (sign myself into the hospital voluntarily). Make a long story short I was on drugs and acting a fool and this is why my mother and father decided to send me away. I spent about 1 week at this place and was released.

Fast Forward to about 2 years ago I applied at my local Dicks sporting goods for my Gun Permit I was buying a Mossberg 500a 12guage for Home Protection. I got denied on the spot. I did eventually get a paper (i lost it) from the state of Pennsylvania stating that because I was in a mental institution involuntarily or because I was in a mental institution period I could not own a firearm in this state, or that this was the reason for being Denied the License.

***The QUESTION*** I Have is this: What do I have to do to get my license now? Am I completely screwed and will I never be able to own a firearm or CCW in PA? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Oh, also my mother and father are both deceased now so they couldn't go to bat for me or they would. And I have no siblings.


Thank you in advance,
Adam

BEFORE anyone FLAMES this post realize this.
1. I have been clean from drugs for years now, this happened when I was 16 or 17 and I am 28 years old now.
2. I Own my own Business
3. Am happily Married with 2 beautiful children
4. Am completely mentally sound and this can be verified by my family doctor and any state dr.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

You will need to get an attorney, be ready to fork out some serious cash, and have a LOT of luck on your side to be able to even buy a firearm nowadays. That is not a state law, it is a FEDERAL law. With the conditions you stated you MIGHT be able to get it overturned but I am no lawyer and I am in no way an expert. Just going by all the horror stories I have seen. Basically you are in for a long and expensive trip my friend. Glad you cleaned up your act, but you are now experiencing the downfall of a misspent youth. Good luck

[NEPABob]

I suggest you go over to the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum http://forum.pafoa.org/ and run it by them.

In all probability you'll need an attorney who is active in PA gun laws...

Good luck and congratulations on turning your life around !

[NavyLCDR]

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-pennsylvania.pdf

Oops - I just read 302ed (I was thinking 308. Never mind, you are prohibited):

6105. Persons not to possess, use, manufacture,
control, sell or transfer firearms.

(c) Other persons. In addition to any person
who has been convicted of any offense listed
under subsection (b), the following persons shall
be subject to the prohibition of subsection (a):
(4) A person who has been adjudicated as an
incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed
to a mental institution for inpatient care
and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of
the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L.
817, No.143), known as the Mental Health Procedures
Act. This paragraph shall not apply to
any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental
Health Procedures Act unless the examining
physician has issued a certification that inpatient
care was necessary or that the person was committable.

You can petition the court to have the prohibition lifted:
(f) Other exemptions and proceedings.
(1) Upon application to the court of common
pleas under this subsection by an applicant subject
to the prohibitions under subsection (c)(4),
the court may grant such relief as it deems appropriate
if the court determines that the applicant
may possess a firearm without risk to the
applicant or any other person.

You will need to get an attorney, be ready to fork out some serious cash, and have a LOT of luck on your side to be able to even buy a firearm nowadays. That is not a state law, it is a FEDERAL law.

Negative, my friend. His prohibition is contained in PA state law, not Federal law. Federal law only prohibits those that were committed to mental institutions by court order.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=2a81352b7865ef444708de281acb3b1a&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.2.1.1&idno=27

§ 478.11 Meaning of terms.
When used in this part and in forms prescribed under this part, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof, terms shall have the meanings ascribed in this section. Words in the plural form shall include the singular, and vice versa, and words importing the masculine gender shall include the feminine. The terms “includes” and “including” do not exclude other things not enumerated which are in the same general class or are otherwise within the scope thereof.

Act. 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.

Committed to a mental institution. A formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term includes commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness. It also includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Navy, he was INVOLUNTARILY committed (302) which is clearly stated in the regs you posted to disallow firearm ownership.

[NavyLCDR]

Sorry freedom fighter, a commitment under 302 is for observation and examination, which is exempted in the Federal law:

7302. Involuntary emergency examination and
treatment authorized by a physician -- not to exceed seventy-two hours.
(a) Application for Examination. -- Emergency
examination may be undertaken at a treatment facility
upon the certification of a physician stating the need
for such examination; or upon a warrant issued by the
county administrator authorizing such examination; or
without a warrant upon application by a physician or
other authorized person who has personally observed
conduct showing the need for such examination.
(i) Warrant for Emergency Examination.-- Upon
written application by a physician or other responsible
party setting forth facts constituting reasonable
grounds to believe a person is severely mentally
disabled and in need of immediate treatment, the
county administrator may issue a warrant requiring a
person authorized by him, or any peace officer, to take
such person to the facility specified in the warrant.
(ii) Emergency Examination Without a
Warrant.-- Upon personal observation of the conduct
of a person constituting reasonable grounds to believe
that he is severely mentally disabled and in need of
immediate treatment, any physician or peace officer, or
anyone authorized by the county administrator may
take such person to an approved facility for an
emergency examination. Upon arrival, he shall make a
written statement setting forth the grounds for
believing the person is in need of such examination.
(b) Examination and Determination of Need for
Emergency Treatment. -- A person taken to a facility
shall he examined by a physician within two hours of
arrival in order to determine if the person Is severely
mentally disabled within the meaning of section 301[1]
and in need of immediate treatment. If it is determined
that the person is severely mentally disabled and in
need of emergency treatment, treatment shall be begun
immediately. If the physician does not so find.or if at
any time it appears there is no longer a need for
immediate treatment, the person shall be released and
returned to such place as he may reasonably direct. The
physician shall make a record of the examination and
his findings. In no event shall a person he accepted for
involuntary emergency treatment application was
granted for such treatment if a previous application was
granted for such treatment and the new application is
not based on behavior occurring after the earlier
application.
(c) Notification of Rights at Emergency
Examination. -- Upon arrival at the facility, the person
shall be informed of the reasons for emergency
examination and of his right to communicate
immediately with others. He shall be given reasonable
use of the telephone. He shall be requested to furnish
the names of parties whom he may want notified of his
custody and informed of his status. The county
administrator or the director of the facility shall:
(1) give notice to such parties of the whereabouts
and status of the person, how and when he may be
contacted and visited, and how they may obtain
information concerning him while he is in inpatient
treatment; and
(2) take reasonable steps to assure that while the
person is detained, the health and safety needs of any
of his dependents are met, and that his personal
property and the premises he occupies are secure.
(d) Duration of Emergency Examination and
Treatment. -- A person who is in treatment pursuant to
this section shall be discharged whenever it is
determined that he is no longer in need of treatment
and in any event within 120 hours, unless within such
period:
(1) he is admitted in voluntary treatment
pursuant to section 202 of this act;[2] or
(2) a certification for extended involuntary
emergency treatment is filed pursuant to section 303 of
this act.[3]
[1] Section 7301 of this title.
[2] Section 7302 of this title.
[3] Section 7303 of this title.

What followed after his 72 hour commitment for observation and evaluation was a voluntary commitment. The alternative to the voluntary commitment would have been that the examining physician would have had to petition the court for a formal commitment. Since the intitial commitment under 302 was for examination and evaluation AND since the subsequent treatment was voluntary, it does not fall under the Federal prohibition. IF he had been INVOLUNTARILY committed after the 72 hour observation, then he would be prohibited.

I send Sailors to mental health on a fairly routine basis (one or two a month) for evaluation due to suicidal ideations or gestures. Usually they go there, talk to DOC and DOC says you're fine, go home. Sometimes they keep them overnight. Just because they go there involuntarily does not cause them to be prohibited by Federal law.

Notice also the 7302 commitment is classified as EMERGENCY in PA code, and the Federal regulation prohibition only applies to FORMAL commitments.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Navy, I am guessing here since he was a MINOR that a court order was not needed. His parents committed him. He was there for more than 72 hours and then he voluntarily admitted himself. Like I said, he needs an attorney since his main ordeal was with drugs (the reason he was admitted) and that is clearly stated in the federal guidelines.

[NavyLCDR]

He was not involuntarily committed to the mental institution for drug addiction. He was involuntarily committed to the mental instition for evaluation and observation. What followed was a voluntary committment to the mental institution for drug addiction treatment. Federal law only prohibits persons currently addicted to illegal drugs, not those who have completed voluntary treatment programs. 18 USC 922 (g)(3).

Once the PA court resolves the 302 commitment, he'll be good to go.

My advice and opinion is worth exactly the same as freedom_fighter_in_IL, BTW.