[Snaps]

I was browsing around their site and came across these.
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/store.cgi?&shop=city&cart=38841473x53396&session=3fea3e4228f5148e&L=eng&P=47T

and

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/store.cgi?&shop=city&cart=38841473x53396&session=3fea3e4228f5148e&L=eng&P=47TB

It reads like those are for any 1911 but I'm wondering if it's nto for their KZ45s?

Otherwise I'd suppose they extend pretty far from the handle?

Anybody know for sure?



(I go just browsing around at guns and I end up wanting to buy mags. No wonder I'm always poor :( )

[Skunkabilly]

They extend an inch below the grip of a standard 1911 and won't fit in a KZ45, nor will KZ45 mags fit standard 1911s...hope this helps.

[longeyes]

Of the jams I've had with my two 1911s (Kimber, Sistema) a disproportionate amount seem to have occurred when I was using my one 10-rd Wilson mag. This may be unique to my mag or just an aberration, but then again... Perhaps one of our 1911 experts can shed some light on whether the more capacious mags are more prone to trouble.

[Skunkabilly]

Perhaps one of our 1911 experts can shed some light on whether the more capacious mags are more prone to trouble.

Because they weren't designed by JMB. If indoor plumbing were designed by JMB it would never back up. So there :evil:

[longeyes]

Skunk,

Then perhaps you can tell me this: If JMo had built an automobile, would it have had a handbrake or not? Or would it have always been in gear but restrained by a handbrake until ready to roll?

[Zach S]

Theyre for single-stack 1911s, like already stated. They do stick out below the magwell, my CMC power ten mags look like about an inch and a half, maybe a little more.

I wouldnt trust my life to them, my CMC ten round mags are for range duty only, and I've heard about reliabilty problems with the wilson ten rounders as well, never tried them for myself.

Then perhaps you can tell me this: If JMo had built an automobile, would it have had a handbrake or not? Or would it have always been in gear but restrained by a handbrake until ready to roll? Good question... However, on a stick shift car a line-lock could take the place of the handbrake, and if the car in question has an automatic transmission, it would have a trans-brake.

[1911Tuner]

T'was asked:

Perhaps one of our 1911 experts can shed some light on whether the more capacious mags are more prone to trouble
---------------------------------------------

Yep. If we accept that any machine is a compromise...that is, it must
either do several things acceptably well, or it must perform one function
over a wide range of circumstances...we can better understand why these
magazines tend to be testy. The spring is the biggest fly in the ointment.

There are two extremes in the magazine's function. The top round in a
full magazine...and the last round. The top round has the most spring
tension against it, and the bottom round, the least. Translate that
to minimum or maximum drag on the slide, and all that it implies.

The spring must be heavy enough to push all the rounds upward and
get them in position on time...yet be light enough to prevent putting
so much drag on the slide as to bleed off the necessary momentum to
effect a reliable return to battery.

On the other end of the spectrum, when the last round is the only one there, it must be strong enough to get it to the feed lips in time to meet
the slide that is now moving faster due to decreased drag from the magazine. If it's not, all sorts of issues can come into play. Bolt-over-base, or rideover feeds...The Loose Last Round Syndrome", where the
inertial effects of the round and recoil cycle actually cause the spring to compress for a fraction of a second while the pistol is torquing upward.
When the slide smacks the frame while the round is floating, the pistol
is jerked sharply rearward while the round stands still. In the extreme,
the slide locks back and leaves the round laying loose on top...or the
round can actually be kicked clear of the port. This usually happens
on the next-to-last round, and the last one feeds. If you happen to
find unexplained live rounds among your brass, this is why.

Make the mag spring stronger to prevent this...and the drag is excessive
when the magazine is full...and it's very hard to load to capacity. Weaken the spring to negate these things...and you get last round feeding issues.
You can slow the RTB with a lighter recoil spring to give the last round time
to get into position, but at the expense of a strong return to battery. You
can use a heavier recoil spring to regain the momentun, but you'll likely
cause the slide to outrun the magazine on that critical last round. Neither
recoil spring does anything about the problems related to the inertial
effects of recoil, and going too far in either direction can make things worse.

Another potential problem area in the extended magazines is the follower.
The rear leg of the follower is shortened to help maximize space in the tube. When the rear leg gets shortened, it also becomes less stable and
begins to rotate...or rock forward. When the follower nose-dives, so does
the ammunition. Proceed to...the empty magazine.

With a shortened follower, there are only two spring coils againse the inside to keep it against the inner wall of the magazine body instead of three. This makes the follower much more likely to rotate and fail get enough lift on the slidestop to lock the slide reliably.

There is also the matter of that silly little dimple on the top of the follower.
That dimple is there to help prevent the last round's movement forward
under inertia, thus preventing the dreaded push-feed/extractor snapover
return to battery which de-tunes extractor tension in short order. If it
continues for very long, it can break the hook itself. That dimple has a
purpose. Remove it, and things can get complicated.

Browning the Great designed a 7-round magazine for his pistol. It was
a successful and reliable system, and performed well even under less than
ideal circumstances. When tinkering with any successful design, bear in mind that any change that is made requires other changes to compensate for the "improvement". Can you make an 8 or 10-round magazine work
reliably? Sure...Just be aware that striking just the right balance can be
frustrating and tedious...and then when you get everything fine-tuned,
be prepared to start over when you change the recoil spring...or the
mainspring...or ammunition lots...or anything. Not always, but very often,
the smallest thing can throw it back out of kilter.

Whew! Hope this helps to answer some of the questions.

Cheers!
Tuner

[Brian D.]

Ya know, I gotta print out your response here. Have known this about the longer mags myself, but have trouble 'splaining' to new folks at the range sometimes. Also, at one place we shoot bowling pins, we have a handicapping system. The overall winner of the previous match gets a pin added to each table the next time he shows up. Win the match that time, you're now up to seven pins per table. (This keeps the same shooter or two from dominating the match week after week, which can run off newbies.) Anyhow, if certain guys get to seven or eight pins per table, they dig out their 10 or 11 round mags, which almost invariably jam their otherwise 100% reliable pistol. Seen this happen a BUNCH of times now. On the occasions I get up 7 or more pins/table, I keep right on using the Wilson or CMC 8 rounders, and try real hard not to miss!

[Hal]

(OT- kinda)

1911Tuner,
Would the same apply to the Browning High Power? I've seen 20 and 30 round HP magazines and considered picking one or two up just for grins.

[1911Tuner]

BrianD...Absolutely! Feel free to print it and use it.

Hal...Yes. The same applies to ANY extended-capacity magazine, especially
the ones that are longer.(Extend below the grip frame) You may get a
good one that will perform, at least until the spring begins to get tired.
Chances are pretty good that you won't, though. If you decide to go that
route, stick with the name brands and avoid the "Gun Show" specials.

One point that I forgot to mention is that any time the slide gets shorter,
as in Officer's Model/Defender/Micro class pistols, the magazine timing
becomes more critical due to the decreased slide mass/weight and the
higher slide speeds. When the slide gets lighter and faster, the magazine
has to be RIGHT. The 5-inch guns with their slower slides are more forgiving.

Cheers all!

Tuner

[silent one]

Snaps,
I use 7,8, and 10 round mags in all my 45 semi autos. Most of them are Chip McCormick mags. I recently bought two Wilson combat 10 rounders and they don't perform any better than any of the others. Other than the solid follower on the Wilson mags, they all seem to me to be pretty much the same. I personally think problems start when the mag gets crudded up. I take them apart every 500 rounds or so and give them a good cleaning. After cleaning I wipe the inside of the mag with a bore patch lightly coated with oil then reassemble them. I also change the springs every 5000 rounds. I use only Wolff springs in any of my firearms, their quality is top notch.
I also consider quality when I buy anything. If a company has a good track record, I'll give them a shot. I also take price into consideration. You can get Chip McCormick mags from CDNN for around 15.00 for a 10 rounder,and 10.00 for an 8 rounder. The bottom line is you have to make up your own mind as to what's best for you.
At any rate, good luck and "be safe"

SILENT ONE

[stans]

Good 7 round mags work perfectly in my 1911's.

Good 8 round mags work if the springs are fresh.

Wilson 10 round mags work if new springs are installed and the magazines are left fully loaded for 24 hours before the first use, otherwise, the first round will jam every time. Then springs take a set and work reliably for a while, then springs weaken and the last round jams every time.

Morale of the story, I rely on good 7 round magazines if I choose to use a 1911 for serious business. For games, I'll play with the higher capacity mags.

[Hal]

Tuner -
Thanks for the info. I suspected the 20 and 30 rounders could be problems.