TX open carry question


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woerm
December 16, 2010, 04:50 PM
I'm working with a new TX house of Rep guy re open carry.

I saw a proposed amendment to the concealed carry a while back that was pretty specific does anyone know where it went?

I know we have to amend section 46 and 42 of the penal code I was trying to see if specific examples of what needs to go for open carry exist.

Thanks,

woerm

(note section 46 is weapons 42 is disturbing the peace.)

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M2 Carbine
December 16, 2010, 05:01 PM
Good luck.
I probably won't open carry much but I still think we should have the choice.


No, I don't know what you are asking.

Flintknapper
December 16, 2010, 05:53 PM
Open Carry would be a futile effort this session.

Campus Carry and Parking Lot Storage are the two bills holding the most attention and supported by the TSRA.

I am very much for OC in Texas....but the time for it...is not now IMO.

TexasRifleman
December 16, 2010, 06:21 PM
I dunno, put it all out there and see what sticks. I agree campus carry and parking lot/workplace are top list items but this is a very heavily weighted legislature in one direction.

It's possible and I'm all for trying to get it.

I don't have what you are looking for either, but let us know what we can do to help.

hso
December 16, 2010, 07:54 PM
Good discussion about developing a plan of action so let's move it over to Activism Discussion.

orionengnr
December 16, 2010, 10:22 PM
For starters, have you contacted your Texas Rep and discussed who he/she will vote for as Speaker? Joe Strauss has been a disaster and needs to be replaced if we are going to get anywhere.

Check with TSRA; they have some good info. If we get a co-operative Speaker who will allow some Bills to be brought to the floor for discussion, we may make some progress. The status quo will result in another two-year delay.

Flintknapper
December 16, 2010, 10:49 PM
It is a good time to start talking about and laying the groundwork for O.C. in Texas, but you can forget about having it pass, (or anyone sponsoring/authoring a bill....probably) this session.

The TSRA is NOT behind it. They are pretty much the gatekeeper of pro-gun legislative action in Texas, and I can assure you, the subject of OC is not on their list (this session).

MudPuppy
December 17, 2010, 02:30 AM
Does anyone (official rep) from TSRA maintain a presence on this forum? Perhaps it would be helpful to contact them?

I find it baffling that in independent minded Texas the right to OC is prohibited, while in hippie, liberal Seattle I can OC. (but generally CC)

Good luck, one thing is for sure--we give up without the fight, we'll never make progress. I remember all the "you can forget about ever getting CC" in so many states, including Texas, and yet due to those who do, that was passed.

I appreciate your efforts, don't give up without even trying!

calaverasslim
December 17, 2010, 07:14 AM
Perry has already told the legislature not to send him a bill about open carry as he would veto. With the super majority in senate, they could overide.

Worth a try. Like the man sez, if you don't try, you never will

Flintknapper
December 17, 2010, 08:06 AM
MudPuppy wrote:


Does anyone (official rep) from TSRA maintain a presence on this forum? Perhaps it would be helpful to contact them?
You can go here:
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/index.php

Search "Open Carry" and you will find recent (and older) discussion about it and why it is not a good time to file a bill. If you want to express your concerns about O.C. (either now or in the future), you'll want to call the TSRA (ask for Alice Tripp) and tell them.


I find it baffling that in independent minded Texas the right to OC is prohibited, while in hippie, liberal Seattle I can OC. (but generally CC)
Texas (believe or not) has NOT been an open carry State since some time in the 1870's.

Good luck, one thing is for sure--we give up without the fight, we'll never make progress. I remember all the "you can forget about ever getting CC" in so many states, including Texas, and yet due to those who do, that was passed.
Yes, there must always be a "plan" and efforts made to lay the groundwork for future legislation. You will not find a more staunch supporter for O.C. in Texas than I. Actually, the long term goal is "Constitutional carry".

I appreciate your efforts, don't give up without even trying!
No one is "giving up"....I just recognize the folly in trying to get a bill passed THIS session. It won't happen. In fact....it probably wouldn't even be heard... since filing this late is sure to put it near the end of the list.

There is no support for it by the TSRA or by Rick Perry (at this time), so its a forgone conclusion that it would detract/distract from the two high profile bills that ARE filed and sponsored (Campus Carry & Parking Lot Storage).

Thats just the reality of it....whether we like it or not.

Flint.

TexasRifleman
December 17, 2010, 09:14 AM
Perry has already told the legislature not to send him a bill about open carry as he would veto.

Care to cite where he said this? Here is part of a press report on this from October of this year.

The Governor has expressed qualified support for open carry, as long as the individual carrying the weapon complies with all State laws and requirements. His office points out that a change in State laws regarding carrying of firearms would require LEGISLATIVE ACTION, and therefore suggests that advocates of open carry in Texas may want to share their thoughts with their State legislators.

So basically he has said he will support open carry that's permitted, not unrestricted like Virginia or Arizona. At least that's what I find from reading on it.

Unless you have something that shows different the Gov doesn't appear to be the roadblock.

Seems a good place to start would be in repealing part of 46.035 that's the "intentionally fails to conceal" statute and would basically allow open carry with a CHL. Baby steps.

Remove this and you're done:

A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

CleverNickname
December 17, 2010, 10:19 AM
Well, that would be the simple way to do it. However, that would mean open carry would be covered by 30.06 no-carry signs. Right now those signs are pretty rare as carry is mostly an out-of-sight, out-of-mind issue for the general public. But if the law changed in this manner and open carry became legal, it would no longer be out of sight, which would bring attention to it and cause more places to post 30.06 signs to ban open carriers. Since no distinction would be made between open and concealed carry then this would reduce the number of places people can carry.

It doesn't seem like this would be worth it to me. It would be moving one step forward as far as loosening legal restrictions on carry, but two steps back as far as the practical effect it would have on people legally carrying.

TexasRifleman
December 17, 2010, 11:41 AM
It doesn't seem like this would be worth it to me. It would be moving one step forward as far as loosening legal restrictions on carry, but two steps back as far as the practical effect it would have on people legally carrying.

I agree but it seems Perry would veto an unrestricted open carry and there are not likely to be enough votes to override that.

I think the idea that we'll just leave it alone rather than face the possibility people might put up more signs is a bit too paranoid personally. Hard to tell if people would rush out and put signs everywhere. The exact same prediction was made when 30.06 was put in originally, and that hasn't happened.

Certainly might, but it's a complete guess as to whether or not that will happen.

The reality is that these all or nothing approaches almost always result in the "nothing".

Ghosty1
December 17, 2010, 02:02 PM
hmm. as a newbie and a texan...
let me see if i can help...as a gun person

texas is a very "firearm friendly" state regardless of political affiliation.

so perry, like him or not, is a non issue ( no flaming please )

texas is one of the strongest states for "castle doctrine"

everyone knows this...but as of what, 3 years now, its also one of the strongest as to "peaceable journey"

which sort of makes concealed carry a non factor.

having stated that, i still wonder what the heck sense does it make to have a CC law, a castle doctrine law, and a peacable journey law...but open carry is against the law.

its silly, quite frankly. why in texas have a cc anyway, peacable journey covers that....
you cant take your gun into anyplace pretty much, even WITH a cc.
and the peaceable journey law states as to the key, it "must be out of plain view."
thus...concealed, right? sarcasm there...

to amend my thoughts on this matter, yes, we should form ranks and agree on one solid point, and forward it.

-G

CleverNickname
December 17, 2010, 04:50 PM
I agree but it seems Perry would veto an unrestricted open carry and there are not likely to be enough votes to override that.

I think the idea that we'll just leave it alone rather than face the possibility people might put up more signs is a bit too paranoid personally. Hard to tell if people would rush out and put signs everywhere. The exact same prediction was made when 30.06 was put in originally, and that hasn't happened.

Certainly might, but it's a complete guess as to whether or not that will happen.

The reality is that these all or nothing approaches almost always result in the "nothing".
I agree but it seems Perry would veto an unrestricted open carry and there are not likely to be enough votes to override that.

Has there ever been a state that once banned open carry but has since made it unrestricted? AFAIK in the states where it's legal it's always been legal. Honestly I think it would be an easier sell to go to unrestricted CCW and leave open carry illegal in any form, than it would be to go to unrestricted open carry.

TexasRifleman
December 17, 2010, 06:10 PM
Honestly I think it would be an easier sell to go to unrestricted CCW and leave open carry illegal in any form

Well, Perry's statement seemed to indicate that he won't sign anything that does away with the training and background checks, so unrestricted anything is not going to happen for now.

If that's the case then we're either going to have to accept permitted open carry or no open carry at all for the foreseeable future.

Flintknapper
December 17, 2010, 07:07 PM
Yup! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Licensed Open Carry would be easier to sell to the public and makes more sense as the "first step" toward Unlicensed OC or even better (Constitutional Carry).

None of it is going to happen THIS session though.


That doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about, plans made and preparatory work done for a future session.

Guillermo
December 17, 2010, 11:21 PM
Alice Tripp, the lobbyist for TSRA is a very good acquaintance of mine.

If you would formulate what queries that you have for her I will be glad to ask her.

BTW, last session TSRA was not focused on open carry and for political reasons was not going to list it as something that they reported legislatively.

Flintknapper
December 17, 2010, 11:52 PM
Alice Tripp has already heard every concern about O.C.... from every angle.

Simply "relaying" a consensus to her....would be of no effect.

I have been told in no uncertain terms from another prominent figure at the TSRA, that they will ONLY consider taking up the O.C. issue if a "significant" number of it's MEMBERS call in/write/contact them. They are not going to advance this on their own (discretionary decision).

Individual requests might have the potential to make a difference, but ....the concerns of TSRA members is the primary interest in terms of selecting issues for legislation.

Big discussion about this recently on the TexasCHLforum (worth reading). I have provided the link in an earlier post.

woerm
December 18, 2010, 12:03 AM
Guillermo

If Ms Tripp has a drafted open carry version I'd love to see it.

I'm tearing up my files looking for the one I printed out that converted that mess in section 46 into Vermont/Alaska/Arizona and ditched the license stuff unless someone wanted a permit for reciprocity with whom ever.

Thanks,

Woerm

SpaceFrank
December 18, 2010, 03:17 AM
Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, here's the Campus Carry bill that has been filed for the current session:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=82R&Bill=HB86

It appears to be identical to the one from last session, except there is now no provision for private universities to choose to ban CC, which I believe they would have been able to under the 2009 bill.

AFAIK no OC bills have been filed.

rhenriksen
December 18, 2010, 10:47 AM
And if it hasn't already been said, joining the TSRA will make your input on their legislative priorities carry more weight.

Guillermo
December 18, 2010, 11:08 PM
Had an email exchange with Alice. She said that "Open carry is not on our agenda and we're not likely to add it until campus and parking lot are passed."

The reasoning is that they have been been working on the parking lot issue for 8 years. They are concerned that OC could be a panacea that hinders campus and parking lot.

All this said, TSRA is supportive of OC but are cognizant of the fact that there are limits to what they can do at once.

Flintknapper
December 19, 2010, 12:25 AM
NO the TSRA is NOT "supportive" of O.C., they have made it very clear that their position is neutral concerning this issue as is the NRA.

They WILL however make strides toward O.C. IF they hear from a "significant" number of members, but even then....it will only be at such time they deem it politically appropriate/feasible.

It is virtually a "NO GO" this session as I have been saying, and not a likely candidate next session either. There is much groundwork to be done.

So...start calling and writing AFTER this session is over and express your concerns and wants. If you are not a TSRA member...please consider joining and offer your support.


Flint.

Guillermo
December 19, 2010, 12:41 AM
NO the TSRA is NOT "supportive" of O.C

I have worked with Alice over the last two sessions as I have testified on the TSRA's behalf. It is my opinion that she is honorable, forthcoming and is not much for equivocation.

My view of her has been up-close and personal and I trust her without reservation.

If you believe that she is lying, that is your right.

Flintknapper
December 19, 2010, 08:19 AM
I am not suggesting Alice is "lying" or in any way challenging her integrity, I don't know how you extracted that from my post.

You either misunderstood her, she mis-spoke, or the position of the TSRA has changed very suddenly.

The answer is simple however. Just ask her for an OFFICIAL answer as to the status of the TSRA on O.C.

1. The TSRA is in support of Open Carry in Texas (then ask her what type, licensed, unlicensed, constitutional).

2. The TSRA is NOT in support of Open Carry in Texas.

3. The TSRA remains neutral on the subject at this time.

Please report back here.

I did not make the statement about neutrality without benefit of the input of another high profile person with the TSRA (He has been there much longer than Alice).

Guillermo
December 19, 2010, 11:39 AM
Flint,

You may be right as to the official position of TSRA and Alice has explained why that is. TSRA is not stating support for OC right now because they don't want the business lobby to use OC as a lobbying tool. The thought is that OC is a big deal and they don't want it to overshadow the stuff they have been working on for 8 years.

I do not view that as being neutral, just prioritizing.

Personally I would like it if TSRA could come out and say what their goals were. But then anti campus carry can skew the argument to include other issues.

Flintknapper
December 19, 2010, 01:55 PM
Guillermo wrote:

Flint,

You may be right as to the official position of TSRA and Alice has explained why that is. TSRA is not stating support for OC right now because they don't want the business lobby to use OC as a lobbying tool. The thought is that OC is a big deal and they don't want it to overshadow the stuff they have been working on for 8 years.
They are correct not to pursue it this session for a number of reasons.

I do not view that as being neutral, just prioritizing.
Oh...they have talked about it plenty.....you can bank on that. Of course, "priorities" are always necessary and represent the prudent approach to any legislative effort, but the "neutrality" comes in the form of not moving the issue ahead (using their own discretion).

They will wait to hear from TSRA members on this one...or it will not be taken up, I can assure you. I do agree...it is an issue that demands careful research and will need to be incremental in order to be successful.

It is with that thought in mind that they officially state they are "neutral at this time". NRA takes the same position.

Hopefully....we will one day see a return of a right that was taken from Texans back in the 1870's.

Thank you...for your support Sir,

Flint.

Guillermo
December 19, 2010, 02:08 PM
I too look forward to the day when we have our rights restored.

Keep up the good work.

dturner1993
March 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
I say that guns should never be allowed on any school campus, including colleges, except for peace officers.

txhoghunter
March 24, 2011, 11:47 AM
I say that guns should never be allowed on any school campus, including colleges, except for peace officers.

I am in college in texas. The fact of the matter is, I hardly ever see armed campus police officers. If an assailant was to show up on campus, my best chance to stay safe at the moment is if an armored truck driver was making his runs. I am all for campus carry, because you can't have 200 police officers randomly spread out defend a campus of 50,000

griff383
March 24, 2011, 02:02 PM
Very true txhoghunter. I too am a current student and am taking an evening class this semester. I have yet to see even one security offer let alone a police officer. When class is over it is dark and there are alot of walkways with smaller "inlets" and corners that are not lit at all, perfect place for a wrong do'er to hide and wait.

So until campus carry gets passed I guess I will have to rely on the "law" to keep people honest and not carry a weapon on campus. Because thats what protects us right?

txhoghunter
March 24, 2011, 02:24 PM
So until campus carry gets passed I guess I will have to rely on the "law" to keep people honest and not carry a weapon on campus. Because thats what protects us right?

Well its supposed to, but my signature shows who it actually protects.... (I know that was sarcastic ;))

BikerRN
March 24, 2011, 03:17 PM
I say that guns should never be allowed on any school campus, including colleges, except for peace officers.

Why do we allow antigun people to join this site?

BikerRN

tackstrp
March 24, 2011, 03:18 PM
Same thing in some hospital parking lots.

txhoghunter
March 24, 2011, 03:29 PM
Why do we allow antigun people to join this site?

Ignorance can be humorous?.....but in this case I have no idea..

hirundo82
March 24, 2011, 04:15 PM
I say that guns should never be allowed on any school campus, including colleges, except for peace officers.

Well, then it's good your opinion doesn't determine whether I'm allowed to defend myself when I'm riding Houston public transit home from school at night.

BikerRN
March 24, 2011, 04:34 PM
Ignorance can be humorous?.....but in this case I have no idea..

I fail to see the humor, given that the poster in question claims to wear a badge.

BikerRN

txhoghunter
March 24, 2011, 04:53 PM
Oh I wasn't laughing, I was just saying that sometimes it is. This case....not so much

GEM
March 26, 2011, 06:48 PM
Mr. Cho followed the rules at Virginia Tech - didn't he? Oh, wait. The law-abiding people followed the rules. The police (with rather good response time) arrived after Mr. Cho broke the rules and killed all the people following the rules.

In fact, Mr. Cho killed himself when he heard the police arrive and perhaps the breaching shots. So I propose that we just have sound systems that play a recording of arriving police, so that rule breakers may kill themselves. Thus, then we don't even need armed peace officers. I also want a unicorn.

Now seriously, I work where we have an excellent PD. I've been out with them. However, they will arrive too late to stop the initial wave of killings that might number in the 20's and 30's.

As far as the initial OC question. My view is if it is a real risk to sink the campus carry and parking lot bills because it arouses the business community, it should be a later endeavour. We know that business is against those two bills and will try to sink them in the calendar morass, as in the past. I note that we fixed the initial problems with the CHL bill in a later session. While debatable by some, parking and campus bills provide more expansion of tactically important and self-defense abilities to more people than open carry. Flame me, but I buy the priority argument. I'm not betting in favor of the bills getting passed. We've been there before.

Cynical me.

TG13
March 27, 2011, 02:41 AM
public land, public carry... period..

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