Suggestions in shooting a S&W 617


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al123
December 16, 2010, 07:29 PM
Well, we went out to the range to try out a 617. I'd say I'm just too new in the handgun game to know if it's accurate or not since I'm not that good of a shot :p

I notice that after 60-70 shots that the extraction was getting tough. Also the double action was starting to bind up. I pulled out my nylon brush and cleaned the chambers and it was back to normal again for about 20 rounds, then I had to clean it again. Ammo was CCI Mini-mags solids.

Question 1: Is this normal?

Question 2: Should I be brushing the bore/front cylinder and the extractor area instead of the chambers?

Thx for any suggestions.

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CSA 357
December 16, 2010, 08:47 PM
most of the 22 revolvers i have had were this way, one thing i did find was to try differnt ammo some will work better than others i have trouble even loading them after a good bit of shooting.

BCRider
December 16, 2010, 09:44 PM
That seems to be gumming up too quickly. I've been averaging a good 4 or 5 boxes through my blued model 17 before cleaning it. And in my case it's the extraction that gets me to that point. The cylinder still rotates and indexes cleanly and easily with a consistent trigger pull in double action.

I'd check the cylinder to forcing cone gap. If it's overly tight the fouling on the front of the cylinder may be making it sticky. It's nice to have about .005 to .007 clearance. Also be sure that the cylinder is clean and oiled and spins very freely on the ejector shaft.

The_Shootist
December 16, 2010, 10:05 PM
I have the 6 shot version of the 617 and after a box or two of ammo it gets sticky, maybe stickier with some brands of .22 ammo. I just put it down to how inherently dirty .22 is. It seems less of an issue with Stingers or the hi-speed Aquila stuff. Maybe the higher grade the ammo the cleaner it is.

As an aside, this was my FIRST handgun - 12 years ago non-ILS version and its never leaving me. its a superb .22 revolver - have it in the 6" bbl config.

al123
December 17, 2010, 01:50 AM
I'd check the cylinder to forcing cone gap. If it's overly tight the fouling on the front of the cylinder may be making it sticky. It's nice to have about .005 to .007 clearance. Also be sure that the cylinder is clean and oiled and spins very freely on the ejector shaft.


I'll get a feeler gauge when I get a chance to check the gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder. The cylinder seems to spin freely.

It seems also this is just the way it is, so I may concentrate my brushing on the forcing cone area and the extractor.

robctwo
December 18, 2010, 12:36 AM
I have a can of Eezox in the range bag, a rag, a brush and a 22 bore snake. When things start gumming up I spray liberally, brush the outside and bore snake the chambers, wipe it down with the rag and I'm good for a few hundred more.

gdesloge
December 18, 2010, 08:05 AM
In my experience, just 2 of the cylinders have sticky extraction (with 10 cylinders, that's 20%). I use a bamboo skewer (because it was handy) and manually "eject" each case after firing (pushing from the front of the cylinder with the skewer) and determined that just 2 chambers are the problem. Without those chambers hanging up, the remaining shells eject easily.

I plan to very gently polish the problem chambers.

Additionally, some ammo is more problematic than others.

gd

ulflyer
December 18, 2010, 09:21 AM
He was shooting CCI Mini-Mags; I don't think it gets much better than that unless you get into extremely high price target ammo. As to accuracy, with a couple of my semi-auto's, CCI Blazer worked as well and is much cheaper. Still, all guns seem to prefer their own particular brand. Buy a bunch of single boxes and see which seems cleanest.

BCRider
December 18, 2010, 02:57 PM
In my experience, just 2 of the cylinders have sticky extraction (with 10 cylinders, that's 20%). I use a bamboo skewer (because it was handy) and manually "eject" each case after firing (pushing from the front of the cylinder with the skewer) and determined that just 2 chambers are the problem. Without those chambers hanging up, the remaining shells eject easily.



If I found that only two chambers hung up the empties consistently even when clean I'd very carefully inspect the edge where the rim sits for signs of any swaging over a very slight bulge due to any accidental dry firings. It would not take much of a burr to hang up an empty after it's fire formed to a slightly larger size. It may be that just the edge needs to be very finely deburred or eased where the metal bulged from contact with the firing pin.

Of course if the firing pin travel is limited by a stop so that it can't make contact with the cylinder then it won't be due to dry firing. But it's still work carefully inspecting the edge of the chambers for any burring or nicks that may be rubbing on the casings before assuming that it's the chambers that are undersize on two of them.

gdesloge
December 18, 2010, 04:07 PM
BC-

That sounds like a great tip.

With 10 cases, there is quite a bit of surface area to influence extraction.

I may try a little polishing compound or bore-lapping medium on those cylinders.

gd

P.S. No dry-firing here, and dry-firing may not even affect the 617.

SeanSw
December 18, 2010, 10:00 PM
My 6 shot 617 does the same thing. I was really upset with it at first but it's just powder fouling. Cleaner ammo helps but I always take a can of spray cleaner and a wire brush to the range whenever the 617 comes out. This is one gun that does not benefit from having a recessed cylinder head. In fact, my Taurus .22 revolver never fouls or jams up like the S&W.

BCRider
December 19, 2010, 05:07 PM
There's no doubt that some ammo is not sized correctly as well. I recently sold a buddy my Hi Standard Double 9. During my time I'd shot CCI Blazer, Standard Velocity and some AE ammo through it all without issue. But I had noticed that the rounds were a very slop free slip fit. He tried to use some Winchester Wildcat in it and we found that the rounds needed to be pushed into place. And this resulted in fairly sticky extractions. I passed me a bit of Blazer and the rounds would all but drop into the chamber and the empties extracted easily. Some CCI Standard Velocity ammo fit even better. So it seems like there's good and bad sizing options even in the world of .22. You may just want to try some other brands out.

BYJO4
December 19, 2010, 05:22 PM
I have both 6" and 4" model 617s and have not had any problem. I have fired up to 400 rounds at any one time with no issues.

al123
December 19, 2010, 09:38 PM
I'd check the cylinder to forcing cone gap. If it's overly tight the fouling on the front of the cylinder may be making it sticky. It's nice to have about .005 to .007 clearance. Also be sure that the cylinder is clean and oiled and spins very freely on the ejector shaft.


I'll get a feeler gauge when I get a chance to check the gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder. The cylinder seems to spin freely.



Update:

The forcing cone/cylinder gap turned out to be .007. I'll be trying other ammo and keeping an eye on the extractor. Regardless, everyone is still having fun shooting it. ;)

BCRider
December 19, 2010, 09:47 PM
Perhaps change the oil you're using. I've been using Breakfree CLP on my revolver cylinder arbors and it really does seem to resist gumming up well.

The blast that comes out the cylinder to forcing cone gap carries a lot of the powder residue with it. If your gun oil tends to gum up when it soaks up some of that residue then that may partly explain why the gun is getting sticky so quickly.

al123
December 19, 2010, 10:08 PM
The blast that comes out the cylinder to forcing cone gap carries a lot of the powder residue with it. If your gun oil tends to gum up when it soaks up some of that residue then that may partly explain why the gun is getting sticky so quickly.

I've also used Breakfree in the past and it is good. I presently use EEZOX and I found it similar in preventing buildup.

However, I'll keep an eye on any excess CLP that I may have failed to completely wipe down. Both work best if there is no excess. Who knows, it may contribute to gumming up. Thx.

JaxJim
December 20, 2010, 06:59 PM
My 617 also will gum up on the cylinder face after a number of rounds. I have a brass brush that I scrub the face of the cylinder and forcing cone area (what is the part that meets up with the cylinder?) when this happens and keep shooting.

I also have a Taurus 9 shot that had extraction problems. There were three chambers that the rounds stuck in more than the rest. I inspected the chambers and upon finding no nick or anything, I simply polished the chambers. I did all 9 and the empty casings dump out without a problem now. Just be careful and don't overdue it.

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