Varget vs IMR4064 for .308 accuracy loads


PDA






R.W.Dale
December 17, 2010, 02:16 PM
I have both on hand to start testing with however before I start working up loads I thought I'd ask you fellas who've used both what your experiences have been as to how these to propellants group with bullets of 150g plus.

I have not had the opportunity to load the 4064 yet and as such I wonder how the stuff meters through a uniflow that handles varget like it was water.

Also please share any idiosyncrasies you might have discovered about these two powders as far as what they like or dislike again through the filter of accuracy really being the only concern

If you enjoyed reading about "Varget vs IMR4064 for .308 accuracy loads" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
kludge
December 17, 2010, 02:31 PM
I use IMR 4064 in the .308 and it has never given me a reason to try Varget. You can get slightly higher velocity with Varget, but you have to compress it to get there. I can get in the mid 2700's with 4064 in a 24" barrel with the slightest sign of a crater. Varget might get me another 50fps. But >2700fps hurts to much and I prefer 2550fps. I have no problem getting consistent drops with my cheap-o Lee powder measure. I'll probably buy H4895 before I buy Varget.

It would take a much better shooter than I, at ranges much longer than what I have access to, to determine if there is a difference between IMR4064 and Varget from an accuracy standpoint.

Peter M. Eick
December 17, 2010, 02:38 PM
I have had really good luck with 4064. I keep trying to "love" Varget but it never seems to do as well as the classics like 4064 or 4895 for me.

Offfhand
December 17, 2010, 06:30 PM
Excuse me, but aren't we forgetting the basics here? What rifle are you discussing? And is it reasonably accurate to begin with?

SlamFire1
December 17, 2010, 07:22 PM
IMR 4064 is a long stick powder and does not meter as well as Varget.

Most of my buds who use IMR 4064 weigh their charges. But they are the type who would weigh their charges if they were using ball powder.

I have gotten outstanding groups with thrown charges of IMR 4064 in rapid fire prone at 300 yards.

I highly suspect I would have gotten equally outstanding groups with thrown Varget.

You just have to load test to determine which will group better in your rifle. I can say that with hardly any load development you can find a load with either powder that wil shoot inside of your hold, without a bench.

R.W.Dale
December 17, 2010, 07:48 PM
We're not skipping anything Offhand
I'm asking a very specific question with regards to these two powders and YOU'RE assuming other accuracy factors have not been addressed. Let's just say that after getting through the load workup if the rifle isn't deep into sub .5MOA territory I'll be quite disappointed.

kelbro
December 17, 2010, 08:55 PM
I have to give 4064 a very slight edge, accuracy-wise, in my 308s shooting 168gr and 178gr match bullets.

GCBurner
December 17, 2010, 09:38 PM
I don't want to stock too many different powders, so for most certerfire rifles from .223 to .308/.30-06, I just keep Varget and IMR4895 on hand; those two handle most everything in the bullet weights I shoot.

Hangingrock
December 17, 2010, 09:49 PM
RX-15

J.Boyette
December 17, 2010, 09:52 PM
I love IMR 4064 for a bolt action, for a semi auto I use Win748

John

jpwilly
December 17, 2010, 10:05 PM
I've only used Varget and AA2520 both are excellent. I have a can of H4895 to try and want to give Reloader 15 as shot too.

NCsmitty
December 17, 2010, 10:32 PM
I have not had good experience with Varget in a couple calibers. Low velocities and inconsistent accuracy has soured my initial enthusiasm for using it.
On a positive note, H4895 has proven to be a solid performer for me, and has replaced Varget in those cartridges with good velocities and accuracy.
I used IMR4064 years ago when I had a 30'06 and it was always accurate. It can be difficult to meter accurately in some measures though.

I have no experience with the 308, but I'm aware that it can be a very accurate round. I just don't like it because of it's short neck design.

If I was loading for it, I would look around at some of the new powders being introduced that fit the 308's burn requirements. Nothing wrong with the older powders, but I like trying some of the new technology too.

Alliant's new Power Pro spherical powder line shows the 2000-MR giving 2775fps using 168gr Sierra BTHP in the 308.
Some of Hodgdon's new powders coming on line may boost velocity with nominal pressures.
Maybe more data will prove to be convincing.



NCsmitty

Sunray
December 17, 2010, 11:10 PM
"...if the rifle isn't deep into sub .5 MOA territory I'll be quite disappointed..." You'd best prepare yourself then. Too much depends on the rifle to think about sub .5 MOA groups.

Exposure
December 17, 2010, 11:49 PM
I'm going to agree with Sunray.

Your question is so vague as to be almost unanswerable.

You ask the following per your own post:

"before I start working up loads I thought I'd ask you fellas who've used both what your experiences have been as to how these to [sic] propellants group with bullets of 150g plus"

Which can only lead anyone replying that you have done absolutely no load workup at all and want some help getting started. That's fine. There is nothing wrong with asking for a starting point.

Then when Offhand asks a very relevant question that with a few strokes on the keyboard could REALLY help you focus in on the guidance you are seeking you give an amazingly snide response:

"We're not skipping anything Offhand
I'm asking a very specific question with regards to these two powders and YOU'RE assuming other accuracy factors have not been addressed. Let's just say that after getting through the load workup if the rifle isn't deep into sub .5MOA territory I'll be quite disappointed."

Admittedly, you ARE asking a very specific question. But you are unable to answer even the most basic of questions in regards to the variables that are open for discussion. If your handloading and shooting skills are such that you can do mere load development and be "deep into sub .5MOA territory" than I can't imagine why you would need ANY help from the folks here.

So what exactly are you looking for? Do you honestly expect anonymous people on a message board to be able to give you a recipe for sub .5" loads with an unknown .308 rifle with unknown bullets?

You don't even narrow down a specific bullet weight, or even bullet manufacturer. Nor do you provide what type of rifle or twist rate you are dealing with. And on top of that you are worried about how well it will meter. If you want sub .5 inch groups you will be hand weighing every charge, not relying solely on the powder measure to do your work for you.

Sorry but your post is very strange.

R.W.Dale
December 17, 2010, 11:52 PM
see post 20

Mags
December 17, 2010, 11:56 PM
I voted other I like RL15 and IMR4895.

918v
December 18, 2010, 12:11 AM
The nice thing about Varget is that the half-inch groups will carry through immense temperature fluctuations, if that's important to you. 4064 is alot more temperature sensitive.

R.W.Dale
December 18, 2010, 12:19 AM
The nice thing about Varget is that the half-inch groups will carry through immense temperature fluctuations, if that's important to you. 4064 is alot more temperature sensitive.
Thank you!!!!

This is the kind of usefull input I'm looking for here.

How does 4064's temperature sensitivity manifest itself? Pressure spikes, POI shifts, or accuracy consistency?

ArchAngelCD
December 18, 2010, 01:32 AM
For the most part, IMO Varget is a short cut version of IMR4064.

The problem with Varget is when it came out there were some applications where it delivered outstanding accuracy so many reloaders assumed it was an accurate powder for all applications, calibers and bullet weights. That is not so. (as we all learned quickly) For some reason reloaders didn't treat Varget like they would other powders and consider the caliber and bullet weight with regard to relative burn rate. Varget is very good at doing what it's good at like other powders but you can't force it to be good at everything. Like I said above, for the most part Varget is a short cut 4064 and will work well in "most applications" where 4064 works well.

I've found in calibers like the .308 and 30-06 Varget works well with 150gr bullets but not so well with 180gr bullets. That's where it's not like 4064 because 4064 will do well with 180gr bullets most of the time in those calibers. I hope I made some sense here and didn't ramble too much! :p

R.W.Dale
December 18, 2010, 01:54 AM
OK OK Very well I'll provide some background and in retrospect maybe I did come off on the wrong foot a bit

If your handloading and shooting skills are such that you can do mere load development and be "deep into sub .5MOA territory" than I can't imagine why you would need ANY help from the folks here.

Because there is a wealth of information posters here can provide if you merely ask, not just on the handloading basics but also when it comes to serious in depth competition level handloading practices.



My rifle is built with ONE purpose in mind, shooting groups as small as possible. My goal is to shoot very very small groups. To that end I will not be happy (nor have I been with my last such rifle) with .5"+ groups. I fully intend to work through EVERY minute facet of load development towards bettering my group sizes with THR's help if need be.

Now on the powders outlined.

The good thing about a common cartridge like 308 is there's a veritable gold mine of information to be had about what works and what doesn't in terms of accuracy. One common theme that's came up in all my research is that by a wide margin Varget and 4064 are THE accuracy powders for the bullets I intend to start my development with. Projectiles such as the 155 A-max, the ubiquitous 168SMK and the 178grn A-max.

The rifle

Is built on a three screw savage LRPV or target action if you will, the barrel is a 30" 1-10" McGowan, the stock is a Stockade benchrest bedded of course. My interim scope is a Sighton SII 4x16x42mm Target model with a fine crosshair 1/8" MOA dot reticle




Right now I'm getting quite promising results with the light weight bullets and N120 left over from my 30ppc Largo that I'm practically burning up just to get rid of.

And on top of that you are worried about how well it will meter. If you want sub .5 inch groups you will be hand weighing every charge, not relying solely on the powder measure to do your work for you.

While I WILL test this with these two propellants, with my last heavy rifle (30ppc Largo wildcat) I found absolutely NO discernible difference in group sizes comparing weighed vs thrown charges. My best loads for that rifle would shoot in the high .2's ad low .3's with charges thrown straight out of the measure. Granted these were different propellants.

Even weighing charges how a powder meters matters as you'll want to be able to throw slightly light and trickle up.

plateshooter
December 18, 2010, 07:42 AM
In my Savage 10FP in 0308, I get better groups with 43gr RL15 and 150gr BT bullets than with Varget. Don't know why, but that is what my targets say. Three shot .5" groups are not a problem off a bench at 100 yards with my OCD prepared hand loads.

JDGray
December 18, 2010, 07:54 AM
I have had great luck with Varget in my two rifle calibers I load for. .5moa average 5 shot groups with factory barrels. I have really not looked any farther for different powders. A shooting buddy swears on the new IMR 8208XBR offering, and its not temp sensitive like Varget:)

Good luck with your loading!

Redneck with a 40
December 18, 2010, 12:46 PM
I could never get good results with Varget in my .308 shooting Nosler 168 gr HPBT's. I played around with all kinds of different powder charges and nothing worked. I later tried IMR-4895 and it did better across a spectrum of powder charges. I've settled on IMR-4895 for my .308 loading, bought 16 lbs of it.

I'm not really concerned with temp sensitivity, I stay away from max charges and the coldest weather I shoot in is around 30 degrees, the warmest, 85 degrees. That's not going to affect it all that much.

Trent
December 18, 2010, 01:23 PM
The ONLY way you will be able to answer this question is to buy a pound of each type, and work up loads. If you're serious about competition the cost of 2 lbs. of powder isn't going to set you back.

When I buy / barrel a new rifle, as a rule I buy EACH type of powder it can shoot, along with EACH projectile that should work well with the twist rate of the barrel. Then I spend a loooong time, and go through a lot of 9V batteries for the chronograph, to find what it likes to eat.

The peculiarities of your exact rifle's headspacing, chamber, lands, finish lapping, crowning, twist rate, barrel length, and other interior ballistic harmonics which will dictate what powder / projectile / seated OAL / velocity will work best for your rifle.

If you do not take the time to go through all of the possibilities in a controlled (and safe) fashion, you are merely guessing or (worse) assuming that what you have is "the best". Sure, you skip the process, try a few combinations, and say "good enough" on one of them - I have done this many times myself, and there's no harm there. I say controlled, because if you don't pay particular attention to environmental conditions, all of your work is for naught because results won't be comparable.

If you are looking for absolute truth, if there is such a thing, you have to go through the process to find it. No Internet message board is going to short-cut this process for you. It may give you a starting place, but it may also give you bias which can skew your results, compared to objectively exploring the possibilities on your own.

Regarding what will work in your expensive custom built match rifle, you may find results in unexpected areas. From my experience, I found a "sweet spot" on Sierra BTHP MatchKing 180gr 308 bullets for my 300 Win Mag with one particular powder. It took two years of testing, endless hours of meticulous brass sorting and case prep, and a couple of thousand dollars in components, tools, and equipment to get there. In the end, out of a commercial factory off the shelf barrel / action, I was able to put down consistent .25 MOA 10 shot groups with that load (with some occasional larger groups on bad weather days)...

Unfortunately that was the end of the barrel's life, and now I get to start all over again with a new Krieger next summer. :)

Make no mistake, the fun is in the searching, not the end result. Once you find what you're looking for it all does get quite boring. If you have neither the patience, time, nor money to go on the adventure of truly working up a load for your rifle, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Just my .02.

Trent
December 18, 2010, 01:31 PM
PS, the one absolutely necessary tool you're going to need isn't reloading equipment; it's a good chronograph for testing. A good long range competition load that's properly fitted for a match rifle will yield between 8-12fps maximum velocity deviation. Assuming the bullet is properly stabilized by your twist rate, and the BC and retained velocity is sufficient for the range you are shooting it at, the single most important factor under your control when working up a load is the speed at which the bullet leaves the barrel, and the consistency thereof.

Wider fluctuations in velocity will result in increasing amount of vertical spread in your shots as the ranges increase. A 10fps max difference in velocity at the muzzle doesn't make a great deal of difference at 100 yards; the bullets will probably pass close to the same hole. Extend that out to 800 yards with the increased time of flight, the fact that gravity's pull is a function of time, and the trajectories separate MUCH wider. In addition, the increasing velocity differences as the rounds travel downrange ALSO mean the bullets are affected differently by wind drift, spin drift (not only horizontal deviation from spin drift, but also the rate they climb against the wind), and so on.

So "how accurate" depends on your range. If you're shooting at or under 300 yards, you can easily get away with 20-25 fps difference. If you're shooting to set a new 1000 yard world record, you're going to need under 5 fps max deviation, and a REAL steady hand. :)

918v
December 18, 2010, 02:27 PM
How does 4064's temperature sensitivity manifest itself? Pressure spikes, POI shifts, or accuracy consistency?


POI shifts with each 10 degree drop in temperature. Once you get close to freezing temp, the POI drops like a rock. The accuracy changes as well unless you have a magic rifle. Varget, on the other hand, slows down a little bit (because no powder is completely temp insensitive) but it stays consistent in the cold.

308 (165grs and up) + Varget is like peanutbutter and jelly... mmmmmm.

jerkface11
December 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
A good long range competition load that's properly fitted for a match rifle will yield between 8-12fps maximum velocity deviation. Which chronograph is good enough to tell you that??

Trent
December 18, 2010, 09:29 PM
Well, that's the kicker, isn't it. None are that accurate, not even doppler. And - even if they were - how would you be certain? :)

Optical ones like the ProDigital are pretty reliable for how much they cost (they've got very cheap lately!!). They claim 1% accuracy (+/- 30fps @ 3000fps), but when using them in pairs with good conditions and good setup, I've seen first hand they are capable of better than 0.5%.

I have to make absolutely sure the muzzle blast doesn't screw it up, most people put chronographs WAY too close to the discharging weapon then scratch their heads trying to figure out why their numbers are all over the place. I usually put mine out at 20' and 25' for rifles. Fresh batteries are a must. Have to make the shooting plane and the chronograph line up as squarely as possible; bubble levels fixed to the body and a good, solid, adjustable tripod help there. Clouds and snow .. forget about getting reliable results and leave the chronographs at home; just go shoot. :)

Given proper conditions, and set up, I'll usually see around +/- 10fps difference reported between my pair. Your mileage may vary. I feed all the data out via USB. By averaging out the differences between the pair of chronographs for each shot, prior to doing standard deviation, it helps iron out equipment irregularities.

I should have, perhaps, been more careful with phrasing. Rather than specifically name a fps, or some arbitrary number which will vary from caliber to caliber, what you are really after is a very low standard deviation across the mean. Measuring errors and fliers will be ironed out in statistical analysis, you're after a taller "curve" in analysis. Whereas, if your shots consistently fall across a short, broad curve (higher SD), velocity is not as consistent; and neither will exterior trajectory. SD will be higher.

Any statistical analysis gathered are meaningless without comparison sets to build trending patterns, which is why conditions are so important when working up a load - not just for the weapon, but also the measuring equipment. I can't get reliable results about 1/2 of the year in Illinois, there's either snow on the ground, it's cloudy, or the sun goes down before I get off work and can get to the range. :)

Anyway, absolute min and max don't matter nearly as much as how the data populates across the curve for standard deviation. Comparing loads side by side in this fashion can yield good results to form opinions on whether the ammunition in one load is "more consistent" than others. It irons out inconsistencies that simply measuring maximum group size, would NOT be visible.

In short, I don't care if I can shoot a group of a given size at a given distance once; no matter HOW good or bad a load or rifle is, there's always a chance all the planets will align once in a lifetime for a perfect group. Rather, I want to know (with some certainty) how often I can put down a particular size group at a given range. That's why statistics are important - it answers the question we're after - How likely am I to put all of my shots in a given area, in these conditions, with this rifle, with this load, at this distance.

joed
December 19, 2010, 08:32 AM
I use Varget in my .308 Win, and it has worked quite well. For that reason I've stayed with it. The .308 in not finicky with powders and I'd be willing to bet it will give excellent accuracy with almost all popular powders.

Look at all the posts and you can see everyone has a different opinion on what works the best. That's not a bad thing. That tells me if I couldn't get Varget there are a lot of other powders that will work just as well.

Walkalong
December 19, 2010, 08:36 AM
A good long range competition load that's properly fitted for a match rifle will yield between 8-12fps maximum velocity deviation. Which chronograph is good enough to tell you that??

You have to take chrono readings with a little bit of faith. The guys who need that small deviation in their loads can tell on target if the chrono was telling the truth.

Everything is backed up by on target results with the serious target shooters. On target results are all that matter in the end. :)

Adair
December 19, 2010, 09:54 AM
I like Varget in my 308 with 150 gr pills. Someone mentioned IMR8208. I have loaded it in another caliber and I am loving it. IMR 4895 and H4895 are not the same but I hear that IMR and H 4895 are often recommended for 308.

Trent
December 19, 2010, 11:27 PM
You have to take chrono readings with a little bit of faith. The guys who need that small deviation in their loads can tell on target if the chrono was telling the truth.

Everything is backed up by on target results with the serious target shooters. On target results are all that matter in the end. :)

^^ I like his answer better. Not only did that make more sense, but it was also much shorter and straightforward. :)

black timber
December 21, 2010, 01:04 AM
H4895 has given me the best accuracy in .308, but Varget is a very close second.

black timber
December 21, 2010, 01:07 AM
Actually, when I think about it a couple of the .308s i've worked with did like Varget better so H4895/Varget, either one.

ranger335v
December 21, 2010, 12:18 PM
"We're not skipping anything Offhand...I'm asking a very specific question with regards to these two powders and YOU'RE assuming other accuracy factors have not been addressed"

Yeah, you are skipping some important stuff. Like asking a specfic question that presumes our rifles will love what your rifle loves. Fact is, there is so little difference between Varget and 4064 that it isn't as clear cut a thing as you seem to suppose. Technically your question is like asking if 12 year old red headed girls prefer peach or strawberry ice cream. Individually... maybe it's neither. ??

Funshooter45
December 21, 2010, 12:41 PM
Varget worked well, but RL-15 works just a bit better for me. Dunno why, it just does.

R.W.Dale
December 21, 2010, 01:26 PM
"We're not skipping anything Offhand...I'm asking a very specific question with regards to these two powders and YOU'RE assuming other accuracy factors have not been addressed"

Yeah, you are skipping some important stuff. Like asking a specfic question that presumes our rifles will love what your rifle loves. Fact is, there is so little difference between Varget and 4064 that it isn't as clear cut a thing as you seem to suppose. Technically your question is like asking if 12 year old red headed girls prefer peach or strawberry ice cream. Individually... maybe it's neither. ??
Why why why is it so hard to comprehend that this thread is asking about one specific thing. Why does the fact that it's about one thing cause THR's members to go into some hyper myopic mode and ASSUME right out of the blue for no reason whatsoever. That any other myriad accuracy factors aren't being addressed by ME off the web simply because I haven't ran them by you guy's approval first.

Please explain to me RANGER given the information provided in THIS THREAD what exactly I'm NOT doing?



And FYI these powders are different enough to justify a discussion. We've already had commentary on the differences in temperature sensitivity and it's effect on accuracy for example.

If that's OK with you I'd like to get more input on this subject if that's not OK might I suggest clicking on another one of the thousands of threads here in handloading and reloading. Cause honestly your input is SO vague it could literally apply to just about EVERY thread here all you'd have to do is change Varget and 4064 to I dunnow (WSR and CCI400) (rem vs fed) (ballistic tip vs SST) (RCBS vs Lee) after all any thread here about components is utterly pointless according to your reasoning.

1858
December 22, 2010, 04:09 AM
R.W.Dale, all I can add to this discussion is that I only use three powders for .308 Win. These include Reloder 15, Varget and IMR 4895. I also use Varget for my .223 Rem ARs. What I've noticed is that Varget likes to be compressed and my best Varget loads (most accurate, most consistent) are of this type. A good friend of mine uses Varget with CCI BR2 primers and regularly shoots tiny groups from a number of high-end .308 Win rifles that he has. He favors the 175gr SMK HPBT. Basically, I doubt you could go wrong with Varget and frankly, will be VERY surprised if you don't shoot tiny groups using that powder. Since you have a 30" barrel, it'll be very intersting to see your results.

If you're interested, my "pet" load for my .308 Win is as follows:

178gr A-MAX
44.2gr Reloder 15
CCI 200 primer
Lapua brass
MV = 2,650 fps at 1800' DA

My friends super accurate Varget load for his Knights SR-25 is as follows:

175gr SMK HPBT
43.5gr Varget
CCI BR2 primer
Winchester brass
MV = ?

ranger335v
December 22, 2010, 02:55 PM
"Please explain to me RANGER given the information provided in THIS THREAD what exactly I'm NOT doing?"

The point is, your 'simple and specific' question of which of two powders is more accurate is invalid because it's based on a stack of false premises, leaving you to chase an illusion. Perhaps the major issue being that powders, as such, aren't accurate, rifles are and many more powders give excellant accuracy than those two. No matter.

Varget is the only correct answer. Hope that helps! ;)

cougar1717
December 22, 2010, 03:11 PM
Since I've never shot the OP's rifle, unfortuanately I have no idea which powder will be more accurate. Traditionally, 308 Win would use a powder near the 4895 burn rate with 150gr-180gr bullets. There's no shortcuts in load development. There's no way to know without testing. I've had loads that shoot excellent groups in one rifle only shoot average groups in another rifle of the same caliber.

jerkface11
December 22, 2010, 10:42 PM
ranger what you're not getting is that he wants to know which one was more accurate for you.

Trent
December 23, 2010, 04:17 AM
With those two powders, you're splitting hairs on accuracy unless there's big temp differences. Then Varget will win on cold bore shots, hands down. Metering is better with Varget in my experience.

I still have some 4064 on my shelf, but it's been sitting there for a long time. Varget shoots better in my FN-AR (308), and Yugo M76 (in 8x57). But, I do most of my loading and shooting in the winter, where temps can change dramatically from one weekend to the next, so I like the very minor differences in burn rate compared to other traditional powders. No stuck cases come summer time, after a winter spent working up loads.

jpwilly
December 23, 2010, 09:18 AM
R.W. Dale,

I've done quite a bit of loading for my savage and it has a factory barrel. IMO your rifle has more potential accuracy than my rig.

155gr AMAX Palma 46gr AA2520, Fed Case, CCI Primers COAL 2.800" Chrono'd at 2810fps. Shot cloverleaf's with this and was the most accurate of the day. Shot a ten round group no fliers one ragged hole! Nice velocity and SD numbers very happy with this powder and bullet combo.

168gr AMAX Ladder Loads 42.3, 42.7, 43.1, 43.4, & 43.7gr Varget, Fed Case, CCI Primers COAL 2.800" Chrono's from a low of 2630fps to 2700fps These shot well but had an occasional flier. Velocities were 30-50fps high on fliers. I'm pretty sure neck tension was the issue.

168gr SMK 43.7gr Varget, Fed Case, CCI Primers COAL 2.800" Chrono's at 2700fps. These shot very well .6 &.7" 5 shot groups with the edge still going to the 155 AMAX...

175gr SMK 43.5gr Varget, Fed Case, CCI Primers COAL 2.800" Chrono's at 2690fps. These wouldn't settle in at all. and groups opened up...I'm going to pull these apart and work up lighter ladder loads. I have a feeling they were over driven. Fed Gold Medal Match is 2625fps...No pressure signs with this load though.

My 168gr SMK load is suppose to duplicate Fed Gold Medal Match and it's spot on. Standard Deviation numbers were way low too I shot 3 in a row that duplicated the same 2700 FPS as the previous shot (Pro Chrony).

Trent
December 27, 2010, 02:37 PM
jpwilly, are you doing any brass prep whatsoever on those Federal cases? Are they once-fireds from that rifle? Were they match to begin with?

You gotta like Savage barrels, when they're good, they're real good. I've had a couple (one in 308 and one in 270) that couldn't hold a group no matter what I ran through them, but the 300 Win Mag and 22-250 barrels have been rather spectacular. Even the guy at Krieger was singing Savage's praises when I was shooting the bull with him while ordering my new 300 barrel. Speaks volumes, I think, to hear one of the top barrelsmiths in the world praise a "factory" over barrel quality. :)

Trent
December 27, 2010, 02:42 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=115991

Thought I'd toss a link to this brass. While we're on the subject of accuracy, the Nosler Custom brass was the first, and only time, I've ever ordered brass and NOT found flaws of any kind. Weight was uniform, primer holes were perfectly trimmed and deburred, and the neck tension was spot on from one round to the next with no turning required. It's a huge time saver when you get brass that, for all intents and purposes, is match quality to start with.

Toss some Varget, and SMK's in those, and game-on..

jpwilly
January 2, 2011, 01:37 AM
jpwilly, are you doing any brass prep whatsoever on those Federal cases? Are they once-fireds from that rifle? Were they match to begin with?

My brass is once fired Fed (from the power shok ammo at WalMart). My brass prep is pretty straight forward. I've gone over the few hundred pieces of brass and threw out 2 that weighed much different than the others. I FL resize in a Lee die just bumping back everything a few thou pretty much right to SAAMI spec. I clean primer pockets and flash hole trim to 2.005" and chamfer the mouth. Nothing special really.

If you enjoyed reading about "Varget vs IMR4064 for .308 accuracy loads" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!