Yet another illegal "arsenal" found


PDA






Dannyboy
December 25, 2003, 08:38 AM
http://www.pressofac.com/news/atlantic/122503WEAPONS.html

Police uncover Fairfield weapons cache, man arrested
By JOHANNA DUERR Staff Writer, (856) 794-5115

FAIRFIELD TOWNSHIP - State Police arrested a local man after uncovering a hoard of illegal weapons - including several assault rifles - from two neighboring homes Tuesday on Cedarville-Fairton Road.

Police arrested Frank Dagostino, 55, on illegal weapons charges after they searched the homes owned by his family. A tipster who knew Dagostino told police he had a stash of explosives and weapons, police said Wednesday.

Police didn't find any explosives, although they found a canister containing 5 pounds of elemental liquid mercury.

Among the weapons found were several shotguns, automatic handguns, revolvers, knives, swords and a large amount of ammunition. They found an Uzi semiautomatic, a 9mm Para with four large capacity magazines, a Tech 9 and several military rifles, police said.

"The whole room was full of guns here," State Trooper Doug Adams said. "It was like an arsenal."

Adams said they couldn't speculate on a purpose for owning the weapons, but they knew of no plans to use them. The weapons were found stashed throughout the two homes, which were in a rural area.

Police said they also uncovered 74 grams of suspected marijuana and drug paraphernalia, and a wide variety of prescription medication.

They arrested Dagostino without incident and filed no charges against others living in the houses. Dagostino was charged with unlawful possession of assault weapons, unlawful possession of a large capacity of ammunition magazines and unlawful possession of weapons, possession of a controlled, dangerous substance, and possession of CDS paraphernalia and growing marijuana. He is being held on $25,000 bail at the Cumberland County Jail, police said.

State Trooper Brian Smith is investigating.

To e-mail Johanna Duerr at The Press:

jduerr@pressofac.com

Large capacity of ammunition magazines? I'll have to remember that one. "Excuse me, do you have any large capacity of ammunition magazines for a Browning Hi Power pistol?" I don't think I need to go into the rest of the story because I'm pretty sure I feel the same as everyone else here about these so-called arsenals and anonymous tips:barf: .

If you enjoyed reading about "Yet another illegal "arsenal" found" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
greyhound
December 25, 2003, 09:03 AM
unlawful possession of a large capacity of ammunition magazines and unlawful possession of weapons,

Dannyboy, I agree.

Seems like anyone that has "weapons" these days is up to no good (Though obviously there may be more to this case than that, of course).

More and more, it seems **weapons ownership = either gangsta or psycho.**

Thanks a lot, media.

Mark Tyson
December 25, 2003, 10:09 AM
That "anonymous tipster" will get you every time.

The association of mere weapon ownership with criminality has been the goal of that totalitarian anti-gun ninnies all along, and as this article demonstrates it is working.

I don't really care about the marijuana either, although I think it's a bad habit - so's smoking, so's drinking, big deal.

What was the liquid mercury for?

Tamara
December 25, 2003, 10:16 AM
Among the weapons found were several shotguns, automatic handguns, revolvers, knives, swords and a large amount of ammunition. They found an Uzi semiautomatic, a 9mm Para with four large capacity magazines, a Tech 9 and several military rifles, police said.

Sounds like my place, although I'd never be so declasse as to own a TEC-9 (well, lately at least :uhoh: ) and an Uzi just ain't my bag, baby. Other than that, pretty much all the accoutrement of a normal pad, if you ask me.

What was the problem with these items? :confused:

feedthehogs
December 25, 2003, 10:17 AM
Loose lips sink ships!

Keep your mouth shut about what you own.
Overcome the American way of bragging on your posessions.

Trust no one including family members..........remember when someone might be facing jail time and they have some info on you....you're going down.

That's my take on this story.

Tamara
December 25, 2003, 10:23 AM
Everybody knows I own a bunch of guns. I work in a gun store, for heaven's sake, so it wouldn't require much in the way of "anonymous tips" to figure that one out.

More importantly, calling the cops to tell them that someone "has a bunch of guns" in Tennessee would be like calling the cops to report that someone has a dog and a pickup truck. ;)

WilderBill
December 25, 2003, 10:34 AM
Tam has a good point.
Maybe we should the report suspicious behavior of anyone we suspect of NOT owning a dog, a pickup and at least one gun. :scrutiny:

Molon Labe
December 25, 2003, 10:39 AM
What did he possess that was illegal? I’m allowed to possess a pre-ban assault weapon, aren’t I? And there’s no limit to how many I can possess, right?

"The whole room was full of guns here," State Trooper Doug Adams said. "It was like an arsenal."

An arsenal is where gun are manufactured. An armory is where gun are stored. (Most people have these definitions backwards.) So it would have been more correct to say, "It was like an armory.”

Tropical Z
December 25, 2003, 11:06 AM
That really P***** me off when LEO's act like that.What,only HE should have the right to own guns? Sounds like the guy had a perfectly normal gun collection to me.:banghead:

EOD Guy
December 25, 2003, 11:14 AM
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Among the weapons found were several shotguns, automatic handguns, revolvers, knives, swords and a large amount of ammunition. They found an Uzi semiautomatic, a 9mm Para with four large capacity magazines, a Tech 9 and several military rifles, police said.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sounds like my place, although I'd never be so declasse as to own a TEC-9 (well, lately at least ) and an Uzi just ain't my bag, baby. Other than that, pretty much all the accoutrement of a normal pad, if you ask me.

What was the problem with these items?

This was in New Jersey. The subjects there can't be trusted with such evil and criminal weapons of mass destruction.

HBK
December 25, 2003, 11:22 AM
Sounds more like Germany or France than America. And I thought that extra magazines were smart to own. Guess I have a lot to learn... :rolleyes:

Nathaniel Firethorn
December 25, 2003, 11:38 AM
And exactly who was Dagostino bothering (other than his relatives, who had to put up with all that stuff)? Probably it was one of them who ratted him out.

But seriously, that mercury metal was a terrorist incident waiting to happen. He could have bonked a couple thousand people over the head with it. :rolleyes:

Had Dagostino had the good sense to live in Free Pennsylvania, he could have had his "Tech-9," his military rifles, and his five pounds of mercury. (For the pot, he'd have had to move to Alaska or Holland.)

- pdmoderator

Tropical Z
December 25, 2003, 11:40 AM
The only thing i cant figure out is why own the mercury? I know its very toxic.:confused:

rock jock
December 25, 2003, 11:49 AM
New Jersey = :barf:

carpettbaggerr
December 25, 2003, 12:07 PM
Maybe he had lead buildup in all those barrels. Mercury is very effective in removing it.

rayjay
December 25, 2003, 12:40 PM
Sounds like the Storm Troopers just acquired a batch of new weapons to steal. :cuss: I have alot of weapons and I'm sure the police would just love to get their hands on my collection. I sure hate to hear stories about police departments that would steal from the very people they are paid to protect. If I was that guy, I would file a motion to have that search warrant surpressed and thrown out. Since when do they issue VALID search warrants on the basis of a "tipster" ?:scrutiny:

Standing Wolf
December 25, 2003, 02:54 PM
The association of mere weapon ownership with criminality has been the goal of that totalitarian anti-gun ninnies all along, and as this article demonstrates it is working.

Yep.

Chris Rhines
December 25, 2003, 03:02 PM
Five pounds of Mercury? Piker. I've got THIRTY-FIVE POUNDS of MERCURY sitting in my basement. It's waiting for me to figure out something to do with it.

Got some guns, too. No reefer, though. Does this mean that I should be expecting a visit from the Man?

- Chris

Daedalus
December 25, 2003, 03:40 PM
It seems to me that if the ATF goes in your house you are going to be charged with felony SOMETHING. I wonder if they have ever stormed anyones house and actually left empty handed. I am pretty sure they always cook up some ridiculous "intent to build" or "constructible possession" charge to make it seem like they are really serving the best interests of the people through these Gestapo-esque raids.

HE HAD A CHINESE SKS WITH BAYONET LUG ATTACHED!!! SEND IN THE STURMTRUPPEN!!!

schadenfreude
December 25, 2003, 03:48 PM
In a short few years that article is going to read

"Man arrested for felony possesion of the new "rapid loading" flint lock musket and he was in possesion of a Swiss made paramillitary knife that even has scissors and a magnifing glass. ATF agents were tipped off by the already-proven-guilty-persons own child because the young boy was taught in kindergarten that owning such "military" weapons means you are an enemy to the country."

:rolleyes:

P95Carry
December 25, 2003, 04:05 PM
Oh my - my heart sinks, even further in abject dismay.:(

And yeah - this STOOPID and excessive use by media of ''arsenal'' ..... sheesh ... couple that with the now obligatory ''assault'' ...... and it's all there eh ....... recipe for more sheeple panic. They will no doubt be nodding heads, with furrowed brow, ''tut tut'' ..... trying to believe that such ''awful'' things are possessed and that such things can happen. As ever - the ''criminal'' link is well played on.

That people can even OWN such NIGHTMARE things in fact, is so horrific. Sheesh ... ''go take another Prozac P95''.

:mad: :banghead: :banghead:

Wildalaska
December 25, 2003, 04:36 PM
Yeah lets just ignore the drugs, this "Patriot" was apparently just another gun owner being picked on...

Y'all think the cops just raid homes based on tips? ya ever hear of something called a search warrant? Wanna bet they had one here? Wanna bet its likely that the info reported on this victim of the jackbooted thugs realted to drugs too..?

Naw, lets just beleive what the newspaper wrote, unless of course its about some "patriot" murdering a cop....

Wildspiritof HannukahAlaska

jimpeel
December 25, 2003, 05:16 PM
If they had found nitric acid as well as the mercury the assumption would have been that he was going to make mercury fulminate with it. They were, after all, on a quest for explosives but found none. What is the bet that he will be charged for having "materials for the manufacture of explosives"; as they hold up that box of Tide detergent for the cameras?

Regardless of the reason for his possession of the mercury -- he could use it for gold or silver recovery -- those who are trained to be suspicious of everything, and take it to its most evil extreme, will come up with a reason that will have as its core the most heinous of intent.

http://www.gurpsmaster.de/tl5explosive.htm#fulminate Mercury fulminate is mentioned on page HT61 as a filler for percussion caps. It is a mixture of mercury, nitric acid, alcohol and water that explodes furiously (REF 1.3) if shaken or struck hard. As history shows it can be used as a filler for - very dangerous - grenades as well.
Mercury Fulminate appears to have been prepared for the first time by Hohann Kunckel von Lowenstern. (1630 - 1703) The preparation and properties of mercury fulminate were described in much detail by Edward Howard in 1800 in a paper presented to the Royal Society of London.

On the 4th of November 1857 the French Simon Francis Bernard bought the ingredients for mercury fulminate from a pharmacy in central London. They were all free to buy. He told the pharmacist that he was processing daguerreotypes (an early form of photographs, made public in 1938 by the French Mandé Daguerre). The mercury fulminate was filled in custom made hollow spherical metal containers with a small opening hole that could be sealed with a screw. There was no need for a fuse or trigger mechanism. Simply hitting anything hard (e.g. the ground) with the grenade triggers the explosion, with the metal container providing material for fragments.

It was on the 14th of January in 1858 that the Italian gentleman Felice Orsini and his helpers hurled four of the metal spheres filled with mercury fulminate at the French Emperor Napoleon III., wounding 156 people, of which 8 later died from their wounds, but missing the emperor.

jimpeel
December 25, 2003, 05:18 PM
From what I have been able to ascertain from the story, the worst thing this guy did wrong was living in the state of New Jersey.Police said they also uncovered 74 grams of suspected marijuana and drug paraphernalia, and a wide variety of prescription medication.There goes the house, car, guns, bank account, boat, trailer, and everything else he owns.

WvaBill
December 25, 2003, 05:28 PM
To legally own a gun in New Jersey requires a series of background checks.

A firearms purchaser's identification card can be applied for at a local police station. Those who obtain a card can purchase permitted rifles and shotguns.

To purchase a handgun, an individual permit is needed for each gun. Those permits can be applied for at local police departments by those who already have a firearms purchaser's identification card.

Approval from a Superior Court judge is needed to obtain a permit to carry a handgun. Those permits are extremely difficult to obtain, authorities said.

Under New Jersey law, it's even possible to seek a permit to own an assault weapon. Court approval is needed.

New Jersey Assault Weapons (http://www.nj.com/news/expresstimes/nj/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1070186806124930.xml)

Some states aren't free.

Edit to add: Without a dog, p/u truck, and/or guns, at least 2 of 3, you are looked at askance in these parts.

Tamara
December 25, 2003, 05:45 PM
Y'all think the cops just raid homes based on tips?

No, they get search warrants based on tips, and then they raid the home. ;)

Wanna bet its likely that the info reported on this victim of the jackbooted thugs realted to drugs too..?

Find where I ref'd the drugs in my post. :confused: Legality and ethics of The War On Whatever aside, what I was getting my giggles out of was the breathless reporting of yet another mediocre "arsenal" in the media.

Wildalaska
December 25, 2003, 05:59 PM
Find where I ref'd the drugs in my post. Legality and ethics of The War On Whatever aside, what I was getting my giggles out of was the breathless reporting of yet another mediocre "arsenal" in the media.

Tamara, ma chere, twas not your post I was responding to, au contraire, twas the usual breathless litany of indignation so, so, predicatble whenever some miscreant lowlife (other than a person of colour, neh?) gets busted with a gun....

The righteous howls of indigation remind me of a Jesse Jackson rally..

PS, I too found the reporting lacking...as usual..

WildturduckenAlaska

Wildalaska
December 25, 2003, 06:06 PM
Find where I ref'd the drugs in my post. Legality and ethics of The War On Whatever aside, what I was getting my giggles out of was the breathless reporting of yet another mediocre "arsenal" in the media.

Ah, Tamara, ma chere, twas not your usual succint and pithy post I was referring to, au contraire, twas the usual breathless blathering decrying the imminent revolution along with righteous indignation that predictably follows the reportage of any miscreant arrested with a gun (unless he is a person of colour, neh;) )

Sort of like the amens and ya brothers at a jesse Jackson rally..

PS...I also found the story to be,as always, quite lacking in substance..

WildgravyAlaska

Wildalaska
December 25, 2003, 06:09 PM
A yes double posting, the bane of poor internet connections! Rmemeber children, copy your first post before you hit the submit, so you do not have to try to rewrite it from memory after it fails to connect yet later mysteriously appears!

WildburnedfeetAlaska

quick68
December 25, 2003, 06:14 PM
He could have been building neon signs in his basement. Thats what we use mercury and glass tubing (drug related items) for around here.

Daedalus
December 25, 2003, 06:23 PM
Wildalaska, I did not see the ethnicity of the raidee mentioned anywhere so I am unsure as to what point you are trying to make with your "persons of color" quip.

I am decrying the media characterization of having more than 1 gun as an arsenal. I am ignoring the drugs because, last time I checked this was a forum for discussing the legal/political ramifications of firearms, and in this case the criminalization of them. The charges of "unlawful possession of assault weapons, unlawful possession of a large capacity of ammunition magazines and unlawful possession of weapons" are the charges that I have an issue with.

I have 3 rifles and a shotgun which are all semiautomatic. I have high capacity magazines for those that take them. I have several thousand rounds of ammo. Do I have an arsenal? Is the testimony of a business competitor, estranged spouse, or even a child of mine to his teacher/doctor/friend's parent going to be grounds to send a SWAT team into my home, "just to check"?

The villification of people who have an interest in collecting firearms is an ongoing campaign in the pages of today's newspapers. While Mr. Dagostino may not be the poster boy we want, his situation is not one too far removed to what members of this board would face if the Brady Bunch got their wishes. The education of the people, via the media, is what gets gun control legislation passed. People who oppose gun control have an obligation to notice the bias shown in media articles and condemn it. We should be upset when we see a man arrested for charges we feel are unconstitutional. That is what activism is about.

Wildalaska
December 25, 2003, 06:49 PM
We should be upset when we see a man arrested for charges we feel are unconstitutional.

Then pick someone better, not, someone who could be, a dope dealer..

And we all know the media is biased and the things that change that aint gonna come from posting a dumb article on a message board and having everbody screech.."How horrible, what a violation of our rights", meanwhile the victim is, in all probability, a scumbag...

As to your concerns..heres a talking point for you...just like the majority of gun crime is done by criminals (i bet it 90%) (I mean those with a prior conviction or arrest record)..I bet 90-95% of the thousands of search warrants are directed against persons who are criminals..I daresay the cops are way to busy to chase the non criminals......you law enforcement guys here tell us...ya'll just make stuff up to pick on folks?

heres another point...the guy here was in posession of an article in violation of NJ law....ya got a prob with the law, fine, but he played his game and took his chances...

in summary

Cops get tip..guy has Assault gun
Cops verify info
Cops find no assault guns registered
Cops get warrant
Cops find illegal rifle AND dope
Cops areest criminal
Idiot reporter writes sensatioalized article
Crime supporters all rise up in outrage....

Thats right crime supporters...the law is the law and as much as I feel sorry for you NJ guys, ya just got to deal with it...change it, engage in civli disobedience, but dont cry over a guy who tried to beat the system and got caught...

And Daedelus,

Do I have an arsenal? Is the testimony of a business competitor, estranged spouse, or even a child of mine to his teacher/doctor/friend's parent going to be grounds to send a SWAT team into my home, "just to check"?

I guess that depends on where ya live..if your in California and got stuff ya shouldnt have,, you takes your chances..if your not, you wont get a visit..

WildIgotanarsenalwantmyaddressAlaska

Tamara
December 25, 2003, 07:49 PM
engage in civli disobedience

Er, wouldn't that be "crime supporting"? :confused:

;) :D

brookstexas
December 25, 2003, 07:57 PM
if they look in my garage they will find several gasoline powered mowing machines and weed wackers and a stash of gasoline in large capacity containers. Good heavens what was he planning????
Sheesh...

Daedalus
December 25, 2003, 08:16 PM
I guess that depends on where ya live..if your in California and got stuff ya shouldnt have,, you takes your chances..if your not, you wont get a visit..

In my opinion gun laws seem to put the burden of proof on the accused instead of the other way around. The intent to build and constructible possession charges in particular are those that I find loathsome.

For example, presume last month my competitor in the widget manufacturing business has had some hard luck. He knows my reputation as a "gun nut" from my contributions to local NRA chapters. He tell the local constabulary that I posess an "arsenal" and that it should be checked out. Suppose the current sherriff iis up for reelection. A local raid netting "assault weapons and several thousand rounds of ammunition" would be quite the front page splash. Everything is legal and the charges get dropped a few months after the election, assuming no enterprising DA decides that since I own a widget factory, complete with machining equipment I might possibly have been planning on making illegal parts. After all, the search of my home found books describing the Kalashnikov/AR/etc family of firearms and they contained - gasp - exploded diagrams.

Wildalaska
December 25, 2003, 09:31 PM
Er, wouldn't that be "crime supporting"?

Depends on what the civil disobedience is..... For example, Surely a diff in anyones mind between surereptitiously accumulating unregistered guns in your home (to guard yer weed stash maybe) or 1000 employed, honest citizens standing on the Courthose steps with an unloaded unregistered AR15s, lawyers in tow, press there, ready to get bailed out and go to trial en masse..

Daedulus:

For example, presume...might possibly .

An asteroid might hit your house too..

By the way, in your hypothetical, if someone wantas to get ya that bad, they will find a way, guns or not, yes?

WildanyhtingispossibleAlaska

Tamara
December 25, 2003, 10:18 PM
For example, Surely a diff in anyones mind between surereptitiously accumulating unregistered guns in your home (to guard yer weed stash maybe)

That was supposed to be the "bad" example, right? :uhoh:

;) :D

Sergeant Bob
December 25, 2003, 11:03 PM
Does anyone seriously think someone posessing 2.6102732 ounces of suspected weed is a dope dealer?

tyme
December 25, 2003, 11:49 PM
WildturkduckenAlaska, so it's okay for a bunch of protesters to have marijuana and unloaded guns outside of city hall, but not okay for them to have those items in their homes? Please explain this, as I don't understand.

It's okay to break the law if you have lawyers and friends next to you, but not okay if those lawyers and friends are at home?

Wildalaska
December 26, 2003, 12:15 AM
That was supposed to be the "bad" example, right

Its not?:what:

Does anyone seriously think someone posessing 2.6102732 ounces of suspected weed is a dope dealer?

Thats far beyond the reaslm of possibility to you?


WildtryptophanAlaska

Daedalus
December 26, 2003, 01:46 AM
Thats far beyond the reaslm of possibility to you?

An asteroid might hit your house too..













:neener:

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 02:25 AM
the law is the law 1933 Germany "I had to turn in the Rosens and the Goldsteins. I had no choice. The law is the law."

Wildalaska
December 26, 2003, 03:15 AM
1933 Germany "I had to turn in the Rosens and the Goldsteins. I had no choice. The law is the law."

Nice (typical) try...but two different scenarios (and an insullt to the memories of the victims I may add by trivializing their situation...your comparing a ban on a certain class of firearms to mass murder)

WildiatesantsreindeerAlaska

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 04:24 AM
Here is the reality regardless of your opinion to the contrary.

There was no "comparison" to mass murder and firearms bans. That was a figment of someone's overactive imagination.

I about puke every time I hear someone say "The law is the law". Those words have been used to justify every usurpation of human freedom since there have been laws.

The Nazis never broke a single law. Everything they did they did under codified German law. When their crimes against world humanity were brought to light, their response was "The law was the law. It was my duty."

Neighbor turned in neighbor because "the law was the law".

Children turned on their friends and families because "the law was the law".

People disappeared overnight because "the law was the law".

People's property was confiscated or destroyed because "the law was the law".

Kristalnacht happened because "the law was the law".

People were forced into ghettos because "the law was the law".

Do you know who this baby-faced twenty-four-year-old man is? He is my personal hero; and he should be the hero of every freedom loving human on the planet. I'll leave it to you to trace back the URL to find out if you have the gumption.

http://www.ushmm.org

http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/resistance/awards/images/18514_sm.jpg

So don't deign to condescend to me on my respect for the Jews nor accuse me of trivialization.

clubsoda22
December 26, 2003, 04:34 AM
Five pounds of Mercury? Piker. I've got THIRTY-FIVE POUNDS of MERCURY sitting in my basement. It's waiting for me to figure out something to do with it.

E-bay?

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 05:10 AM
I've got THIRTY-FIVE POUNDS of MERCURY sitting in my basement. It's waiting for me to figure out something to do with it.You have approximately a half-flask of mercury.

If you have a mining supply dealer around there, they will buy it from you for silver and gold recovery. You can also take it to a scrap metals dealer but call ahead first to see if they take mercury. They will not give you as much for it as a miningb supply dealer will as they can resell it to people who recover gold. Gold panners use mercury extensively.

The spot price of mercury in 76lb flasks is:

Mercury, Virgin 99.99% min (Per/Flk) 195.00. SOURCE (http://metals.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.indianmetals.com/links.php3%3Fstate=linkurl%26menumasterarg=10%26menudetailarg=10)

Unless you can prove the purity of the mercury in your possession, you should not expect to realize this price.

Nightfall
December 26, 2003, 08:54 AM
...possession of a controlled, dangerous substance...

Is this the pot or the mercury? I had a teacher who owned about 5-10 lbs of mercury when I was in school. She musta been planning to bomb the school. :rolleyes:

The weapon charges literally made me sick.

No, we don't have all the facts, and for all we know this guy could be a baby raping, murdering, lord of the drugs. However, all he was charged with was exercising rights against the government's wishes. A very dangerous crime indeed. :barf: If he was seriously under suspicision of something more serious than owning 'super-evil-high-capacity-sprayfromthehip-clip' magazines and a couple military style semi-auto weapons, don't you think the police would parade that instead? Of course. So logic leads us to the conclusion that this guy had a bit of pot, and was a gun owner.

And for that, he'll rot in jail. Welcome to the future of America!

harpethriver
December 26, 2003, 12:17 PM
Tam-does this mean you don't have 74 grams of that good East Tn. high mountain home grown stashed with your "arsenal"? And no 5# of elemental mercury either? Darn-I was about to suggest the THR New Years party be held at your place! Guns, drugs, and women, sounds like Libertarian nirvana. Seriously-if this guy had these weapons just laying around, not properly secured(like in a gun safe), and had a few bags of "whacky tobaccy" laying around as well, he was asking for trouble. This is not a comment on drug or gun laws-just stupidity-which can't be legislated out of existance. OK Tam-one last chance-party at your place?

Highland Ranger
December 26, 2003, 12:18 PM
NJ has its own AWB - and unlike many other states where pre-ban stuff is legal as long as you owned it rpior to the ban, in NJ ANYTHING woth over 15 rounds is illegal, period. You were supposed to turn all that stuff in when the ban took effect.

standingbear
December 26, 2003, 12:34 PM
:barf:

Wildalaska
December 26, 2003, 03:49 PM
Jim Peel..

Boringly trite? Ah yes lets resort to personal disparagement....

There was no "comparison" to mass murder and firearms bans. That was a figment of someone's overactive imagination.

O really...read it again...perhaps someones overactive rhetoric...

I about puke every time I hear someone say "The law is the law". Those words have been used to justify every usurpation of human freedom since there have been laws.

Considering that the pinnacle of human freedom has been reached becasue of the law, your analysis is fatally flawed.

So don't deign to condescend to me on my respect for the Jews nor accuse me of trivialization.

Ive said this before and Ill say it again...I have relatives in unmarked graves at Baba Yar. Dont presume to use them as weapons in your war against our freedoms and way of life.

WildthethreatisfrombothendsofthespectrumAlaska

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 07:25 PM
Yes, trite -- boringly trite.

Perhaps you should read it again.1933 Germany "I had to turn in the Rosens and the Goldsteins. I had no choice. The law is the law."I didn't say "This is just like what the Nazis did." I merely pointed out that the words "The law is the law" have been used to justify the most heinous crimes in history and I have a personal, visceral hatred for them.Considering that the pinnacle of human freedom has been reached becasue of the lawHA! Pinnacle of human freedom?

You mean the laws that allow for stoning women for adultery?

The laws that require female circumcision?

The laws that require women to wear clothing that only reveals their hands under pain of beating or death?

The laws that allow "honor killings" of women?

The laws that have recently been codified in America which inhibit political free speech by prior restraint?

The laws that allow the seizure and forfeiture of a person's property to the government for a variety of offenses?

The laws that allow government agents to storm your home at three o'clock in the morning because you didn't answer the door within twenty seconds?

The laws that allow the doing away with the old and infirm?

The laws that allow the doing away with those who have yet to breathe life let alone achieve the "pinnacle of human freedom"?

Oh, yeah, my "analysis is fatally flawed" alright. Perhaps another snappy retort is in order? Fire away.Dont presume to use them as weapons in your war against our freedoms and way of life.Now, this is my all-time favorite WilddescendsonceagainintothedepthsoflunacyAlaska post. MYwar against your freedoms and way of life? Perhaps you should learn to relax.

Figure out who he is yet?

Wildalaska
December 26, 2003, 07:49 PM
I merely pointed out that the words "The law is the law" have been used to justify the most heinous crimes in history and I have a personal, visceral hatred for them.

Why dont you point out all the horrors that have been committed where there is no law...

Naw that just wouldnt fit your mind set

BTW, glad to see that you are equating Sharia with modern Western Law...perhaps YOU should get a sense of proportion

End snappy retort

WildenoughofhtisAlaska

Peetmoss
December 26, 2003, 07:56 PM
Did anyone ever consider the possability that this person maybe was on Chemo or something like that, and he was using his dope for medicinal purposes? Highly unlikely but still a possobility.

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 08:12 PM
"Pinnacle of human freedom" were your words. You didn't constrain the "pinnacle of human freedom" to the pinnacle of American freedom alone. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully if you wish to limit the discussion to a certain entity to the exclusion of all others.
Why dont you point out all the horrors that have been committed where there is no law...Even in the absence of codified law there is law. The law of survival of the fittest comes to mind.

Ghengis Kahn had laws even as a barbarian.

Blackbeard had laws even as a pirate.

Yes, they were their laws and they enforced them with an iron hand but they were the laws under which those who clove to them and swore their fealty lived.

So there are no "horrors that have been committed where there is no law" because there is always law; just not the kind that get you all warm and fuzzy and fit your mind set.

Wildalaska
December 26, 2003, 08:36 PM
Even in the absence of codified law there is law. The law of survival of the fittest comes to mind.

And that demonstrates your mind set..Ill take the Constitution and the various codes promulgated thereunder thank you

WildIdontplaywordgamesAlaska

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 09:26 PM
The premise of the absence of law was YOURS. Don't you read your own posts? :banghead:

You wanted examples of "horrors that have been committed where there is no law" and then go to the "make mine milk", wishy-washey, "(That's) your mindset ... Ill take the Constitution" reply like the premise was mine.

You just can't deal with the fact that there is no "absence of law" only the absence of those laws with which you argee or wish you had.

Do you have a point to make?

Are you beginning to notice how many times I have to remind you of what words were yours?

Wildalaska
December 26, 2003, 09:30 PM
Do you have a point to make?

Obviously one that you choiose to ignore, or twist to suit your purposes, or maybe just dont understand.

WildloveitwhentheyimitatemysigAlaska

Tamara
December 26, 2003, 09:32 PM
Get a room, y'all... :scrutiny:

Wildalaska
December 26, 2003, 09:41 PM
Get a room, y'all...

Sorry after Xmas I cant even afford a Motel 6:D

WildnotellmotelAlaska

jimpeel
December 26, 2003, 10:50 PM
Hey! We're talkin' here!

Actually, I'm done. He's on his own.

I manage, and live at, a 29 room motel and if he, or anyone else who posts here, ever comes here I will comp them a room.

Justin
December 26, 2003, 11:16 PM
Why dont you point out all the horrors that have been committed where there is no law... Hmmm...in the 20th Century something on the order of 100,000,000 (that's 100 million) people were killed by their own governments.

I'd wager that organized, governmentally sanctioned murders far outweigh all the murders committed by all the street-level thugs and criminals.


Something to think on...

Ryder
December 26, 2003, 11:20 PM
they searched the homes owned by his family

homes? homes??? So if they can't find enough evidence at my place to bust me they go over to my kid's house and I can be charged with what they find there? The guy was 55 years old. Sounds like the pot belonged to one of his children who doesn't even live with him.

I always thought the right to face your accusor was a good thing. Was I mistaken in my thinking that there was some basis in law for that? If there ever was it must have been repealed because there are BS accusations flying all over the place these days and it's impossible to figure out who is making them. :fire:

Flush NJ.

jimpeel
December 27, 2003, 12:00 AM
Hmmm...in the 20th Century something on the order of 100,000,000 (that's 100 million) people were killed by their own governments.You don't seem to understand. Those are horrors which were committed where there was law. Those don't count. :neener:

Wildalaska
December 27, 2003, 02:41 AM
Those are horrors which were committed where there was law. Those don't count.

Especially to those who have no idea what the concept of law is.

WildroomkeyAlaska

jimpeel
December 27, 2003, 02:58 AM
SOURCE (http://jpfo.org/deathgc.htm)
The Human Cost of "Gun Control" Ideas

Ottoman Turkey _ 1915-1917 _ 1-1.5 million dead

Soviet Union _ 1929-1945 _ 20 million dead

Nazi Germany
& Occupied Europe _ 1933-1945 _ 20 million dead

China, Nationalist _ 1927-1949 _ 10 million dead

China, Red _ 1949-1952 / 1957-1960 / 1966-1976 _ 20-35 million dead

Guatemala _ 1960-1981 _ 100,000-200,000 dead

Uganda _ 1971-1979 _ 300,000 dead

Cambodia
(Khmer Rouge) _ 1975-1979 _ 2 million dead

Rwanda _ 1994 _ 800,000 dead

In the 20th Century:

Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined.

Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals.

How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power - and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were unarmed.

If you enjoyed reading about "Yet another illegal "arsenal" found" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!