Newbie to black powder revolvers, doing research before buying


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Beerme
December 18, 2010, 06:01 PM
Lookin to get myself a nice lil xmas gift, my favorite gun
1847 walker remake.

found a distributor that has a taylors import one, which from what I have gathered is just a Uberti imported by taylors.

what I THINK I will Want/Need

a measurable powder flask
-Looking @ 777 FFFX powder for ease of cleaning.
-and some FFFX Black powder for outdoor smoke screens
-im thinking .454 caliber balls but that will be determined when i get the gun and measure the cylinders precisely, but I am seeing more people with those than the .451's.(lots of them)
-#11 percussion caps(lots of them I plan on shootin her a bunch )
-nipples just in case and a nipple wrench

is there anything else missing from my list?
I already have a full cleaning set at my house and at my shop so it is not needed, neither is a case etc. etc.

the only question I have is
for the 777 what is the conversion to it from black powder by volume?
The walker will handle 50grains of black powder easily, I have been reading and I THINK it is just subtract 15% so a full load for a walker would be 46.75 grains
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
any and ALL information is GREATLY appreciated

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tripe1917
December 18, 2010, 07:27 PM
I tried 777 before I found a couple of good sources for 3f black powder. I reduced the load on the 777 by 15% as instructed on the Hodgson situa. I now use 53 grains of black powder with a lubed wad because any more caused the loading lever to drop after every shot. Plus, at 53 grains my accuracy seemed more consistent and there is less wear on the frame. I will sometimes tie a thin leather string around the barrel to prevent the lever from dropping. I use a .454 ball with a #10 Remington cap. These fit snuggly on both the original Uberti nipples and the Treso nipples I now use. The #11 Remington caps are too big, and the CCI #10's are too small. I purchased the 1/4 x 28 Treso nipples from The Possible Shop, along with a main spring vice to replace the vice grips I had been using.

Safjac
December 18, 2010, 07:43 PM
Yep. I'd go with Hodgdens Triple Seven, it fouls a whole bunch less, so you can get more shooting done before you have to swab the barrel. 777 is 15% more potent by volume. Just calc a 15% lesser than black load.

small pocketknife to pry stuck/jammed where it don't belong caps. When loading the cap, give it a slight pinch on the sides. Makes it oval a little bit, so it stays on the nipple. Raise the barrel to the sky when recocking for the next shot. It looks ghey, but it keeps the spent cap from falling into the works.

Bullet size is critical. A "flash over" will wreck your day. That happens with improper caliber and/or lading procedures.

mykeal
December 18, 2010, 07:46 PM
tripe1917 provides good advice.

Cap sizes vary by brand. CCI No. 11's are not the same size as Remington No. 11's, so you can't say generic No. 11's will work. Don't buy a bunch until you've tried them and are satisfied with the results.

As he said, reduce 777 by 15% by volume to get results equivalent to real black powder. Oh, and you can't measure fractions of a grain reliably. Just round the computation up or down to the nearest 5 grams: 55 grains of real black powder is approximately equivalent to 45 grains of 777.

Full chamber, or 'max' loads in a Walker are great fun but accuracy sucks. My best load for accuracy is 50 gr of Goex real black powder under a .457 round ball and a dry lubed felt wad. Above that the groups widen quickly. And 50 grains is a rifle load, for pete's sake; that's gotta be good enough for a handgun. But every once in a while, a few more grains sneaks into the measure...:evil:

Beerme
December 18, 2010, 09:30 PM
tripe1917 provides good advice.

Cap sizes vary by brand. CCI No. 11's are not the same size as Remington No. 11's, so you can't say generic No. 11's will work. Don't buy a bunch until you've tried them and are satisfied with the results.

As he said, reduce 777 by 15% by volume to get results equivalent to real black powder. Oh, and you can't measure fractions of a grain reliably. Just round the computation up or down to the nearest 5 grams: 55 grains of real black powder is approximately equivalent to 45 grains of 777.

Full chamber, or 'max' loads in a Walker are great fun but accuracy sucks. My best load for accuracy is 50 gr of Goex real black powder under a .457 round ball and a dry lubed felt wad. Above that the groups widen quickly. And 50 grains is a rifle load, for pete's sake; that's gotta be good enough for a handgun. But every once in a while, a few more grains sneaks into the measure...:evil:
so by 15%
if it calls for 50 grains i put in 42.5 grains?
thanks for the cap info ill grab a few packs of each and see which fits best, i work at a gun shop but none of our distributors carry anything but the gun!
I have been on every site we have and I cannot find the walker adjustable flask that i like or any adjustable flask for that matter.
we do not deal in black powder guns so we dont have a distributor for that stuff.
any recommendations on distributors?
if i can get it wholesale i refuse to pay retail :D

ill look into the make your own felt wad thread and see how i do, are there some wads i can buy to get me goin quickly while i work on the felt ones in downtime?

and as for bullet size whats the best way to tell?
when i seat a bullet i want a ring of lead to shave off correct?

Thank you all very much for your input,
mykeal where are ya at in michigan thats where im at

mykeal
December 18, 2010, 11:04 PM
if it calls for 50 grains i put in 42.5 grains?
Fractional grains are meaningless. If you're measuring by volume, which everyone but the top competition shooters do, you can't tell 42.5 grains from 44 grains, etc. Just round it to the nearest 5 grains, which is what the adjustable powder measures are marked at. So 50 grains is either 40 or 45. Or you can try to eyeball it in between at 42.5, but that's a bit of overdoing it.

There are no adjustable flasks. Get an adjustable powder measure and load from the flask into the measure, then to the gun. Never, ever load a long rifle directly from the flask; an ember could turn it into a bomb. The risk of that happening with a pistol is very low, but why chance it.

Track of the Wolf, October Country, The Log Cabin Shop, The Possible Shop, Jedediah Starr, Cabela's, Dixie Gun Works, Powder, Inc., Jack's Powder Keg, Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop, etc. etc. etc.

Cabela's sells lubed wads, so do many others. Eastern Maine is one brand I've used, from their web site or one of the online sutlers.

when i seat a bullet i want a ring of lead to shave off correct?

Yep.

Tawas City/Hale area.

Beerme
December 18, 2010, 11:13 PM
Fractional grains are meaningless. If you're measuring by volume, which everyone but the top competition shooters do, you can't tell 42.5 grains from 44 grains, etc. Just round it to the nearest 5 grains, which is what the adjustable powder measures are marked at. So 50 grains is either 40 or 45. Or you can try to eyeball it in between at 42.5, but that's a bit of overdoing it.

There are no adjustable flasks. Get an adjustable powder measure and load from the flask into the measure, then to the gun. Never, ever load a long rifle directly from the flask; an ember could turn it into a bomb. The risk of that happening with a pistol is very low, but why chance it.

Track of the Wolf, October Country, The Log Cabin Shop, The Possible Shop, Jedediah Starr, Cabela's, Dixie Gun Works, Powder, Inc., Jack's Powder Keg, Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop, etc. etc. etc.

Cabela's sells lubed wads, so do many others. Eastern Maine is one brand I've used, from their web site or one of the online sutlers.


Yep.

Tawas City/Hale area.
alright thanks man ill check monday if any of those companies do wholesale for us :D

this is what i was refering too by adjustable flask
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_100_353&products_id=7820
it says it is a flask but has an adjustable charger built in.
that is EXACTLY what i am looking for.

im in waterford, oakland county area

Hellgate
December 19, 2010, 02:12 AM
You are going to be tempted to load the chambers full of 777 and let fly. If you are lucky you might merely crush the wedges and need to replace them (happened to me on both my walkers during a single CAS match using 50grs FFFg goex and a .454 ball. I have heard of one incident of a Walker coming apart at the wedge cutout and sending the barrel down range from a full load of 777. My Walker load is now 44grs FFg+wad+.454 ball+#10 Remington cap. You may want to consider FF size 777 instead of the finer FFF size that is not to be used in cartridges according to Hodgdon.

Beerme
December 19, 2010, 02:39 AM
actually i was only going to do 50-55g loads but since you want to tell me what im thinking ok sure, I even said i wanted to do 50 grain loads if you see the original post
thanks for the not so friendly advice.

mykeal
December 19, 2010, 07:34 AM
Take it easy. He said you are going to be tempted, not that you intended to do it. And he's right. Everyone I know who owns a Walker, and that's a triple digit number, has done it. It's simply a hand cannon; it shoots a rifle load, in every sense of the word, a blast. With real black powder it's not a concern - the gun can take it. With 777 it can be a bit dicey, especially since 777 gives inconsistent results when compressed. And loading to the max involves compression, so caution is advised. Just friendly word of advice, not an accusation. Take it as it was intended.

junkman_01
December 19, 2010, 08:46 AM
Myke,

Geez, everyone who asks for advice and then receives it is getting really touchy . It must be the holidays approaching, or the phase of the moon.
I wish these guys would calm down!

Beerme
December 19, 2010, 09:55 AM
I do not mind any advice at all but it just happens to be pet peeve of mine to be told what I will think, that is not advice.
sorry for my reaction but it is something i will not listen to.

did you see that flask I was talking about mykeal? it is what had me confused according to the info i was givin i should not use it?

mykeal
December 19, 2010, 10:09 AM
I have no experience with that particular flask. I did read the review; it was posted by a gentleman I have a great deal of respect for, so I'm sure it's accurate.

In general, loading a recently fired chamber directly from a flask is a bad idea; many ranges prohibit the practice. The issue is that a glowing ember in the chamber can ignite the powder being poured into it, sending flame back up the column of powder into the flask; the flask is then essentially a grenade. This is mostly an issue for long rifles, which are more likely to retain a hot ember than a revolver chamber, but it's a poor practice just the same. For that reason I'd avoid a flask with an adjustable measure attached. If the shooter made it a practice to pour from the measure into an intermediate vessel, then into the chamber, I'd have no problem with it. However, that flask is designed specifically to load directly into the Walker's chambers; the wide mouth would make it a bit clumsy to use with an intermediate container. Then there's the issue with it not throwing the 50 grains advertised. All in all, I'd recommend getting a flask with a thinner, fixed spout and an adjustable measure, preferably one with a funnel attached.

TheRodDoc
December 19, 2010, 10:22 AM
I have an original type adjustable flask too. they work fine. mine was bought in the 70's. The tip is made large enough so it will sit on rim of chamber. then you just push down on the flask to actuate the spring loaded nozzle. done. Mine measures from 30 to 60 grains in 5 grain incriments.

The spout in that picture you posted is all the way in. it gets longer as the charge gets larger. you can use it to fill a seperate measure too if you want.

A large percentage of early flasks were adjustable.

Beerme
December 19, 2010, 10:27 AM
Thank you both!!
I will report back with pictures when i order it from work!

cheers

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